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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
914
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Posted - 2015.02.02 03:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
First of all this is not a Sentinel/Heavy QQ nerf thread. Like the title says. Running a Sentinel is cheaper compared to running almost any other suit in the game.
Now. For some comparisons.
I have an Advanced Gallente Assault that runs all ADV except for the sidearm which is a BPO. This is how this fit goes:
Assault G/1 Series
On highs: Enhanced Damage Modifiers
On Lows: Enhanced Reactive Plate, Enhanced Ferroscale Plate, Enhanced Armor Repair and Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Gek-38 Assault Rifle
'Toxin' ICD-9 SMG
M1 Locus Grenade
K-2 Nanohives
Total Cost of fit 40,860 ISK
Now for my Sentinel suit.
Sentinel G/1 Series
On the high slot I got an Enhanced Damage Modifier
On the lows I got 1 Complex Reactive Plate, 1 Complex Ferroscale Plate and one Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Total Cost of fit: 32,391 ISK
Of course price may vary depending on the modules you put on it. All suits Frames and Guns cost the same per rising tier.
Suits: 3,000/8,040/57,690 STD/ADV/PRO
Guns: 1,500/10,770/47,220 STD/ADV/PRO
But the Assault suits have more slots, and if all slots are filled, along side with the addition of the light weapon, side arm, grenade and equipment, an Assault suit costs more ISK to run than a Sentinel suit.
The Sentinel is too cheap considering the amount of damage it can take and dish out. Why should I run an expensive Assault suit when a Sentinel Suit can equip an HMG, have the largest HP pool, and plus the resistance bonuses it gets all costing me less per fit than my Assault suit. Not to mention that if a Logi sticks his repair tool in me, I become near invincible.
And not to mention Logi suits, those guys waste a **** ton of ISK on their suits just to be killed rather easily while a Sentinel wastes less ISK per death, and lasts longer/kills more.
My proposal would be to increase the cost of Sentinel suits in order to maintain them on par with Assault/Logi ISK expense
Changes to Damage mods!
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1634
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 03:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:First of all this is not a Sentinel/Heavy QQ nerf thread. Like the title says. Running a Sentinel is cheaper compared to running almost any other suit in the game.
Now. For some comparisons.
I have an Advanced Gallente Assault that runs all ADV except for the sidearm which is a BPO. This is how this fit goes:
Assault G/1 Series
On highs: Enhanced Damage Modifiers
On Lows: Enhanced Reactive Plate, Enhanced Ferroscale Plate, Enhanced Armor Repair and Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Gek-38 Assault Rifle
'Toxin' ICD-9 SMG
M1 Locus Grenade
K-2 Nanohives
Total Cost of fit 40,860 ISK
Now for my Sentinel suit.
Sentinel G/1 Series
On the high slot I got an Enhanced Damage Modifier
On the lows I got 1 Complex Reactive Plate, 1 Complex Ferroscale Plate and one Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Total Cost of fit: 32,391 ISK
Of course price may vary depending on the modules you put on it. All suits Frames and Guns cost the same per rising tier.
Suits: 3,000/8,040/57,690 STD/ADV/PRO
Guns: 1,500/10,770/47,220 STD/ADV/PRO
But the Assault suits have more slots, and if all slots are filled, along side with the addition of the light weapon, side arm, grenade and equipment, an Assault suit costs more ISK to run than a Sentinel suit.
The Sentinel is too cheap considering the amount of damage it can take and dish out. Why should I run an expensive Assault suit when a Sentinel Suit can equip an HMG, have the largest HP pool, and plus the resistance bonuses it gets all costing me less per fit than my Assault suit. Not to mention that if a Logi sticks his repair tool in me, I become near invincible.
And not to mention Logi suits, those guys waste a **** ton of ISK on their suits just to be killed rather easily while a Sentinel wastes less ISK per death, and lasts longer/kills more.
My proposal would be to increase the cost of Sentinel suits in order to maintain them on par with Assault/Logi ISK expense
I find it funny that you can go 40-3 with militia HMG heavy destroying protos with ease and I cannot do that with any other militia weapon and suit. HMG is ease mode.
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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Yokal Bob
State of Purgatory
763
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 03:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
The only place the sentinals are good is enclosed spaces. There are plenty of objectives out in the open. There are many ways to deal with a heavy. Heavys are slow and have a short range from which they can do decent damage.
What do you want a slow lumbering suit to do? whack you with its P**** +50
/{o.o}/ ---L Inflatable hammer strikes again
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
915
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yokal Bob wrote:The only place the sentinals are good is enclosed spaces. There are plenty of objectives out in the open. There are many ways to deal with a heavy. Heavys are slow and have a short range from which they can do decent damage.
What do you want a slow lumbering suit to do? whack you with its P**** +50
This is all nullified by the use of an LAV, even more a BPO LAV. Which I see more and more Dirve-by heavies using.
They get to run around all across the map faster, getting out and insta killing anyone in their sight, he takes damage he just hops back into his LAV, you can destroy his LAV but a MLT LAV does not cost too much and if he is using a BPO LAV he is only covering for the expenses of his suit, which are lower than the expenses of any other suit in the field that is not militia.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Vicious Minotaur
1932
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Are Sentinels too cheap..
Or are other suits too expensive?
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
915
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Are Sentinels too cheap..
Or are other suits too expensive?
Good question. I asked myself that and came to the conclusion that making the other suits cheaper would encourage more Proto suit spam.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Texas Killionaire
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
518
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
loldamagemods
707
"The Mister Rogers of Dust" - nickmunson
FOR THE STATE
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
917
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would love a CPM input on this actually.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
606
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:
I find it funny that you can go 40-3 with militia HMG heavy destroying protos with ease and I cannot do that with any other militia weapon and suit. HMG is ease mode.
Not...actually...true....but ok....
Regardless, OP, as for your post:
Buwaro Draemon wrote:First of all this is not a Sentinel/Heavy QQ nerf thread. Like the title says. Running a Sentinel is cheaper compared to running almost any other suit in the game.
Now. For some comparisons.
I have an Advanced Gallente Assault that runs all ADV except for the sidearm which is a BPO. This is how this fit goes:
Assault G/1 Series
On highs: Enhanced Damage Modifiers
On Lows: Enhanced Reactive Plate, Enhanced Ferroscale Plate, Enhanced Armor Repair and Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Gek-38 Assault Rifle
'Toxin' ICD-9 SMG
M1 Locus Grenade
K-2 Nanohives
Total Cost of fit 40,860 ISK
Now for my Sentinel suit.
Sentinel G/1 Series
On the high slot I got an Enhanced Damage Modifier
On the lows I got 1 Complex Reactive Plate, 1 Complex Ferroscale Plate and one Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Total Cost of fit: 32,391 ISK
Of course price may vary depending on the modules you put on it. All suits Frames and Guns cost the same per rising tier.
Suits: 3,000/8,040/57,690 STD/ADV/PRO
Guns: 1,500/10,770/47,220 STD/ADV/PRO
But the Assault suits have more slots, and if all slots are filled, along side with the addition of the light weapon, side arm, grenade and equipment, an Assault suit costs more ISK to run than a Sentinel suit.
The Sentinel is too cheap considering the amount of damage it can take and dish out. Why should I run an expensive Assault suit when a Sentinel Suit can equip an HMG, have the largest HP pool, and plus the resistance bonuses it gets all costing me less per fit than my Assault suit. Not to mention that if a Logi sticks his repair tool in me, I become near invincible.
And not to mention Logi suits, those guys waste a **** ton of ISK on their suits just to be killed rather easily while a Sentinel wastes less ISK per death, and lasts longer/kills more.
My proposal would be to increase the cost of Sentinel suits in order to maintain them on par with Assault/Logi ISK expense
Sentinels usually make some of the least WPs in a game. On average it's below pretty much everyone except snipers.
So they make less ISK (and SP, but that's unrelated.) It ends up being a wash in the long run monetary gain wise.
I will say this -- I am a huge proponent of heavies not being able to drive vehicles. Someone else should have to give them a ride. |
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1637
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yokal Bob wrote:The only place the sentinals are good is enclosed spaces. There are plenty of objectives out in the open. There are many ways to deal with a heavy. Heavys are slow and have a short range from which they can do decent damage.
What do you want a slow lumbering suit to do? whack you with its P**** +50
The Assault rifle has an optimum of like 45 and the HMG deals up to 400 DPS up to 40m. The HMG is taking up AR's niche. Not to mention we have side arms that have 60m range.
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1637
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
I find it funny that you can go 40-3 with militia HMG heavy destroying protos with ease and I cannot do that with any other militia weapon and suit. HMG is ease mode.
Not...actually...true....but ok....
So you've seen me play?
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
606
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Yokal Bob wrote:The only place the sentinals are good is enclosed spaces. There are plenty of objectives out in the open. There are many ways to deal with a heavy. Heavys are slow and have a short range from which they can do decent damage.
What do you want a slow lumbering suit to do? whack you with its P**** +50 The Assault rifle has an optimum of like 45 and the HMG deals up to 400 DPS up to 40m. The HMG is taking up AR's niche. Not to mention we have side arms that have 60m range.
So you are comparing the maximum effective range of a gun to another's optimum and say that they infringe?
And make no comment on dispersion? Or heating? Or what the other gun's effective is? Or reload? Or the types of suits you can use it on plus their versatility?
Words fail me.....
Sir Dukey wrote:
So you've seen me play?
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Congrats on getting a rare game where everyone was bad and meatgrindered themselves into you. Let's talk about matches on average across the whole..... |
Kaze Eyrou
DUST University
Ivy League
1864
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pepperidge Farms remembers:
Assault Prices
Logistics Prices
Scout Prices
Heavy Prices
Yep. That's a heavy that cost 246,800 a suit. Just the suit before weapons, grenades, or even modules.
CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Kaze's Helpful Links
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
917
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
I find it funny that you can go 40-3 with militia HMG heavy destroying protos with ease and I cannot do that with any other militia weapon and suit. HMG is ease mode.
Not...actually...true....but ok.... Regardless, OP, as for your post: Buwaro Draemon wrote:First of all this is not a Sentinel/Heavy QQ nerf thread. Like the title says. Running a Sentinel is cheaper compared to running almost any other suit in the game.
Now. For some comparisons.
I have an Advanced Gallente Assault that runs all ADV except for the sidearm which is a BPO. This is how this fit goes:
Assault G/1 Series
On highs: Enhanced Damage Modifiers
On Lows: Enhanced Reactive Plate, Enhanced Ferroscale Plate, Enhanced Armor Repair and Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Gek-38 Assault Rifle
'Toxin' ICD-9 SMG
M1 Locus Grenade
K-2 Nanohives
Total Cost of fit 40,860 ISK
Now for my Sentinel suit.
Sentinel G/1 Series
On the high slot I got an Enhanced Damage Modifier
On the lows I got 1 Complex Reactive Plate, 1 Complex Ferroscale Plate and one Enhanced Kinetic Catalyzer
Total Cost of fit: 32,391 ISK
Of course price may vary depending on the modules you put on it. All suits Frames and Guns cost the same per rising tier.
Suits: 3,000/8,040/57,690 STD/ADV/PRO
Guns: 1,500/10,770/47,220 STD/ADV/PRO
But the Assault suits have more slots, and if all slots are filled, along side with the addition of the light weapon, side arm, grenade and equipment, an Assault suit costs more ISK to run than a Sentinel suit.
The Sentinel is too cheap considering the amount of damage it can take and dish out. Why should I run an expensive Assault suit when a Sentinel Suit can equip an HMG, have the largest HP pool, and plus the resistance bonuses it gets all costing me less per fit than my Assault suit. Not to mention that if a Logi sticks his repair tool in me, I become near invincible.
And not to mention Logi suits, those guys waste a **** ton of ISK on their suits just to be killed rather easily while a Sentinel wastes less ISK per death, and lasts longer/kills more.
My proposal would be to increase the cost of Sentinel suits in order to maintain them on par with Assault/Logi ISK expense Sentinels usually make some of the least WPs in a game. On average it's below pretty much everyone except snipers. So they make less ISK (and SP, but that's unrelated.) It ends up being a wash in the long run monetary gain wise. I will say this -- I am a huge proponent of heavies not being able to drive vehicles. Someone else should have to give them a ride.
I make about the same in my Sentinel suit as I do in my Assault suit. Which is 100k-200k per good match.
A great match I get 300k-400k.
The catch is I die more on my Assault suit leaving me with little profit tho I die less in my Sentinel suit and make a pretty good profit compared to my Assault.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
434
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sentinel with HMG and Bolt Pistol covers some good close range damage and medium range damage if you're good with the BP |
Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
918
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 04:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:Sentinel with HMG and Bolt Pistol covers some good close range damage and medium range damage if you're good with the BP
I hate the ones that fit a BP.
"I finally got away from their HMG range, now to make it somehere safer before he catches u......"
*gets one shotted by Sentinel's BP*
Changes to Damage mods!
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
606
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 06:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
You shouldn't make the same isk in a Sentinel as an Assault. As an assault you can kill at a greater variety of ranges. You can use equipment for extra WP. You can travel more to do more objectives.
Sometimes you make a lot because the situation is perfect for heavy and people foolish meat grinder into you. But against smart opponents, ie. people who are as good as you, you won't find yourself making a lot of isk.
Comparatively the high WP classes are getting 2.5x more isk/sp.
Something to think about. |
SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
312
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 06:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:I would love a CPM input on this actually.
No offense but screw their input, I want to hear from devs. The people that actually look at the game. Not people who havent fired up Dust in god knows how long
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
919
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 06:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:I would love a CPM input on this actually. No offense but screw their input, I want to hear from devs. The people that actually look at the game. Not people who havent fired up Dust in god knows how long
I said CPM because the chances of one commenting in this thread are higher than a Dev looking at this thread 
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
919
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 06:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:You shouldn't make the same isk in a Sentinel as an Assault. As an assault you can kill at a greater variety of ranges. You can use equipment for extra WP. You can travel more to do more objectives.
Sometimes you make a lot because the situation is perfect for heavy and people foolish meat grinder into you. But against smart opponents, ie. people who are as good as you, you won't find yourself making a lot of isk.
Comparatively the high WP classes are getting 2.5x more isk/sp.
Something to think about.
I always find myself making a pretty penny in my sentinel suit compared to my Assault. And those chances double when a logi decides to cling to me.
A heavy can kill from ranges as well just equip a BP and see how people run away.
You can get to objectives fast as well if you use an LAV.
Changes to Damage mods!
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
312
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Posted - 2015.02.02 06:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:I would love a CPM input on this actually. No offense but screw their input, I want to hear from devs. The people that actually look at the game. Not people who havent fired up Dust in god knows how long I said CPM because the chances of one commenting in this thread are higher than a Dev looking at this thread
true......
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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Fel Indeed
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 06:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:I would love a CPM input on this actually.
Isn't the suit totally dependent on another person. Alone they can be destroyed rather easily. I can make any other suit in the game self reliant.
People cry if you use a LAV. Supply depots are the only place to get restocked. Open ground is a nightmare.
About the expense... you don't have to use complex all the time. Assault suits are all pretty sturdy. I prefer them to heavies but I won't try to get heavies gimped financially because of my spending habits. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
611
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 06:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
So .. going with OP logic... give heavy 2-3.. even 4 more slots, that dropsuit will be cost more and all will be ok.
With this I can agree.*
* rest is bad troll
Not much time left...
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Yokal Bob
State of Purgatory
765
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 07:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Yokal Bob wrote:The only place the sentinals are good is enclosed spaces. There are plenty of objectives out in the open. There are many ways to deal with a heavy. Heavys are slow and have a short range from which they can do decent damage.
What do you want a slow lumbering suit to do? whack you with its P**** +50 This is all nullified by the use of an LAV, even more a BPO LAV. Which I see more and more Dirve-by heavies using. They get to run around all across the map faster, getting out and insta killing anyone in their sight, he takes damage he just hops back into his LAV, you can destroy his LAV but a MLT LAV does not cost too much and if he is using a BPO LAV he is only covering for the expenses of his suit, which are lower than the expenses of any other suit in the field that is not militia.
Sadly the lav heavy is broken :( best i can do is carry av nades. the majority of those with sentinals disapprove of the lav heavy
/{o.o}/ ---L Inflatable hammer strikes again
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3731
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 07:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
My Dren amarr heavy suit costs $16K....and it rapes
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
> Check RND out here
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
910
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Posted - 2015.02.02 07:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Yokal Bob wrote:The only place the sentinals are good is enclosed spaces. There are plenty of objectives out in the open. There are many ways to deal with a heavy. Heavys are slow and have a short range from which they can do decent damage.
What do you want a slow lumbering suit to do? whack you with its P**** +50 This is all nullified by the use of an LAV, even more a BPO LAV. Which I see more and more Dirve-by heavies using. They get to run around all across the map faster, getting out and insta killing anyone in their sight, he takes damage he just hops back into his LAV, you can destroy his LAV but a MLT LAV does not cost too much and if he is using a BPO LAV he is only covering for the expenses of his suit, which are lower than the expenses of any other suit in the field that is not militia.
This has been around since the beginning of Dust and I'm surprised it's still here - it's one of the easiest ways to rack up kills with little risk - aside from death by swarm launcher now and then. It works with any suit, not just sentinels, but due to their innate advantage at short ranges... there's not much counter to it. If you take too much damage, just hop back into your LAV and drive away while you regen. Works for HAV's too. This needs to be solved with some kind of "climbing out" animation or just increasing the time it takes to get out of vehicles in general (as well as getting back into them).
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
606
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 08:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Or heavies should not be allowed to drive vehicles. passengers only... |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
611
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 08:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ok. lest 'broke' heavys more
- when heavy drive/ride LAV you get +20% penalty to max speed
- when heavy drive/ride HAV your right side of vehicle go 50% slower then left. Pernamently turret fall down.
- when heavy ride dropship - max flight level is 20m - no more
- remove jump option on heavy - it is broken anyway and ppl try to bunny hooping. Bring option to break handrails, just by crossing them.
- remove strafe. Brign roll over option but only in form of mini game.
- when heavy use inertia dampener - he don't stop at ground level if there is platform below. He just break celling, no need to use stairs.
- if you miss somehow heavy server shoud correct this by moving heavy to your bullets. This give you option to keep heavy away from you.
- and last HMG need only 10 bullets and spupply depot near to prevent more kils from heavy-HMG combo.
Not much time left...
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
General Tso's Alliance
399
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Posted - 2015.02.02 08:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
You do realize that your complaining you have to spend more isk to fill ALL the slots on your suit right? Well just fit it up for as many slots as the heavy has and drop your equipment. The fact you can put more on your suit gives you the advantage and the equipment slot gives you a war point gaining superiority if you chose to utilize it correctly, allowing you to gain more ISK at the end of the battle.
Not to mention since you faster you really don't have to put the money into vehicles as transport at the start of a game.
So calculate the extra income you get for your added war points from any equipment, then minus the cost of a LAV at the start of every game.
I'm not going to even go into the mass amounts of suits lost to remotes since you can't get away fast enough.
Personally, I think you come out ahead when not running a heavy.
G.L.O.R.Y Soldier,
I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3
-Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
312
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Posted - 2015.02.02 08:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Although poorly worded there is a point to be made here. Once in a socket, a sentinal has less ISK risk than that of any other suit of equivalent META. I never start a match in anything other than a scout unless I am calling in a dropship. Once I am in the area I need to be, I will switch to whatever role I plan on using.
If anything the logi's should complain because their risk is even higher than that of the assaults.
just in comparing the PROTO sentinel and PROTO logi I think there is a 1:(2-3) ratio of cost.
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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Jack Boost
Zarena Family
611
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Posted - 2015.02.02 09:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Although poorly worded there is a point to be made here. Once in a socket, a sentinal has less ISK risk than that of any other suit of equivalent META. I never start a match in anything other than a scout unless I am calling in a dropship. Once I am in the area I need to be, I will switch to whatever role I plan on using.
If anything the logi's should complain because their risk is even higher than that of the assaults. Just in comparing the PROTO sentinel and PROTO logi I think there is a 1:(2-3) ratio of cost.
The logi complaint was going a bit farther than need be but its a better example. I'm not looking at a large change, just maybe a max increase of 10-20% for frame cost
hmm...
Now why I must pay extra 10-20% of ISK for heavy - that only way thay I can gain wp/sp is going to first line of fight with 'broken' dropsuit? And there is only way to play because 'most complex' heavy mechanics in the simplest console game :)
As assault you can dictate enagege and you actualy can run away from it. You can gain wp/sp almost on level of logi if you want.
Now logi - you can get chepest logi or 300k ISK logi and without any risk you can get 5k-7k sp from match and get decent ISK from it... without one single shot or leaving redline.
Even if I can manage do 20:3, but usualy it is about 12:8 for average heavy-hmg (with help), I must do about 40:1-2 to get decent wp/sp for ISK gain... but this not happen now. If you see heavy that get more ISK from match then logi/assult/scout (you can include ISK loose too if you manage) then grats for this heavy....
Not much time left...
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
312
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 09:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Although poorly worded there is a point to be made here. Once in a socket, a sentinal has less ISK risk than that of any other suit of equivalent META. I never start a match in anything other than a scout unless I am calling in a dropship. Once I am in the area I need to be, I will switch to whatever role I plan on using.
If anything the logi's should complain because their risk is even higher than that of the assaults. Just in comparing the PROTO sentinel and PROTO logi I think there is a 1:(2-3) ratio of cost.
The logi complaint was going a bit farther than need be but its a better example. I'm not looking at a large change, just maybe a max increase of 10-20% for frame cost hmm... Now why I must pay extra 10-20% of ISK for heavy - that only way thay I can gain wp/sp is going to first line of fight with 'broken' dropsuit? And there is only way to play because 'most complex' heavy mechanics in the simplest console game :) As assault you can dictate enagege and you actualy can run away from it. You can gain wp/sp almost on level of logi if you want. Now logi - you can get chepest logi or 300k ISK logi and without any risk you can get 5k-7k sp from match and get decent ISK from it... without one single shot or leaving redline. Even if I can manage do 20:3, but usualy it is about 12:8 for average heavy-hmg (with help), I must do about 40:1-2 to get decent wp/sp for ISK gain... but this not happen now. If you see heavy that get more ISK from match then logi/assult/scout (you can include ISK loose too if you manage) then grats for this heavy....
10-20% might still be a bit extreme, but my arguement still stands
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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Mudvayne-3324
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 13:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:Ok. lest 'broke' heavys more
- when heavy drive/ride LAV you get +20% penalty to max speed
- when heavy drive/ride HAV your right side of vehicle go 50% slower then left. Pernamently turret fall down.
- when heavy ride dropship - max flight level is 20m - no more
- remove jump option on heavy - it is broken anyway and ppl try to bunny hooping. Bring option to break handrails, just by crossing them.
- remove strafe. Brign roll over option but only in form of mini game.
- when heavy use inertia dampener - he don't stop at ground level if there is platform below. He just break celling, no need to use stairs.
- if you miss somehow heavy server shoud correct this by moving heavy to your bullets. This give you option to keep heavy away from you.
- and last HMG need only 10 bullets and spupply depot near to prevent more kils from heavy-HMG combo.
Do this and you will see something even worse than a heavy. A gal assault with 800 armor and a breach shotgun. Works wonders. Kill 2 people and drive off to reload and come back. Its actually easier than a heavy. 
But on a serious note, why only heavies? Why should they be the only ones suffering? I know the drive byes and all, but other suits can kill you faster than a heavy.
> Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done.
-Linus Torvalds
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Vektus Alvoraan
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
47
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 13:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Although poorly worded there is a point to be made here. Once in a socket, a sentinal has less ISK risk than that of any other suit of equivalent META. I never start a match in anything other than a scout unless I am calling in a dropship. Once I am in the area I need to be, I will switch to whatever role I plan on using.
If anything the logi's should complain because their risk is even higher than that of the assaults. Just in comparing the PROTO sentinel and PROTO logi I think there is a 1:(2-3) ratio of cost.
The logi complaint was going a bit farther than need be but its a better example. I'm not looking at a large change, just maybe a max increase of 10-20% for frame cost
I agree to this. Too long have I gone with running ADV with the proto equipment needed to effectively aid the team, only to get decimated in less than a second. Add to that the fact that our mortality rate is high, dedicated logis usually go into the neutrals and negatives in after-battle earnings.
My ADV MinLogi suit with enhanced modules, and 2 proto equipment (they are the only ones worth getting to actually be of any use to the team. Everyone hates shitty needles and hives), and one ADV equipment. STD weapons with STD grenades. This all adds up to about about 70-80k per fitting. A lot dedicated logis like myself usually go into the negatives because the risk is just too damn high. Only thing we can get effectively is WP and SP, which is meaningless when I'm as broke as a Brooklyn bum at the end of the match...
DUST 514 Closed Beta Vet - Humble logibro, at your service.
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noob cavman
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2063
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 14:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
My proto cal scout costs me near 200k isk per suit 
My proto min heavy is roughly 120-30 k
I want to be a caveman!
Ccp: LEGION
Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Full steam ahead into the enemies booty yarrr.
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Alena Ventrallis
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
2515
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 14:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Heavies only really shine in close quarters. Open area objectives aren't exactly heavy friendly.
The problem is the prevalence of CQC objectives, especially in domination.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 14:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Yokal Bob wrote:The only place the sentinals are good is enclosed spaces. There are plenty of objectives out in the open. There are many ways to deal with a heavy. Heavys are slow and have a short range from which they can do decent damage.
What do you want a slow lumbering suit to do? whack you with its P**** +50 The Assault rifle has an optimum of like 45 and the HMG deals up to 400 DPS up to 40m. The HMG is taking up AR's niche. Not to mention we have side arms that have 60m range. So you are comparing the maximum effective range of a gun to another's optimum and say that they infringe? And make no comment on dispersion? Or heating? Or what the other gun's effective is? Or reload? Or the types of suits you can use it on plus their versatility? Words fail me..... Sir Dukey wrote:
So you've seen me play?
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Congrats on getting a rare game where everyone was bad and meatgrindered themselves into you. Let's talk about matches on average across the whole.....
Dispersion or not, the HMG can deal 400DPS up to 40m. I have tested it out, It has happened to me, I've done it to other people. There is no denying it. Yes HMG has a reload that is long but did you forget those 400+ bullets hold up to 8000 damage.
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
928
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 17:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
noob cavman wrote:My proto cal scout costs me near 200k isk per suit My proto min heavy is roughly 120-30 k
And how much do you make per battle with each suit?
Changes to Damage mods!
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1856
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 17:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'll tell you why they aren't priced higher...
1. Mobility
2. Mobility
3. Mobility
Sentinels can't run. Sentinels just tank damage, get the easy kills, and work as deterrence. At the most they're a supportive role. Not meant to be taken as a serious offensive. In the past, Sentinel suits were much more effective and could be used for offensive purposes. Now with the weapons and better scouts, they're easier to handle.
Also logistics don't equip all that stuff so that they can get into direct combat as I assume you think by saying they stack all of that stuff on just to be fleshy. They're meant for a support role, strictly. Now I'm not too sure on the current situation with logistics but they were always meant to be fleshier than the assault and heavy, since their potential goes mostly towards equipment and supporting mods. Of course they should be able to stack on eHP mods but in the current meta, simply having more eHP doesn't change your role dramatically.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Vektus Alvoraan
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
47
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 17:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:I'll tell you why they aren't priced higher...
1. Mobility
2. Mobility
3. Mobility
Sentinels can't run. Sentinels just tank damage, get the easy kills, and work as deterrence. At the most they're a supportive role. Not meant to be taken as a serious offensive. In the past, Sentinel suits were much more effective and could be used for offensive purposes. Now with the weapons and better scouts, they're easier to handle.
Also logistics don't equip all that stuff so that they can get into direct combat as I assume you think by saying they stack all of that stuff on just to be fleshy. They're meant for a support role, strictly. Now I'm not too sure on the current situation with logistics but they were always meant to be fleshier than the assault and heavy, since their potential goes mostly towards equipment and supporting mods. Of course they should be able to stack on eHP mods but in the current meta, simply having more eHP doesn't change your role dramatically.
As a logistics, I only put on weapons on the suits because I want to be able to give that proto stomper at least a bloody nose before he obliterates me with his proto godliness, all while trying to support the team, be it throwing uplinks, tossing hives, bring up a clone or two from termination, or repping everyone in my immediate vicinity. But the tools need to efficiently help the team are costy. Support players shouldn't be penalized this heavily from trying to help the team without slaying everything in sight.
DUST 514 Closed Beta Vet - Humble logibro, at your service.
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Aiwha Bait
Demonic Cowboys
67
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:I would love a CPM input on this actually. No offense but screw their input, I want to hear from devs. The people that actually look at the game. Not people who havent fired up Dust in god knows how long
Uh, before you start bashing the CPM, you shouldn't say things you dont have proof for. I regularly see a majority of them play. Their twitter feeds also indicate that they actively play the game to get a feel for what needs to be addressed. Calm your *******.
"I went looking for trouble, and I found it." - Charles Ponzi
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Aiwha Bait
Demonic Cowboys
67
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vektus Alvoraan wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:I'll tell you why they aren't priced higher...
1. Mobility
2. Mobility
3. Mobility
Sentinels can't run. Sentinels just tank damage, get the easy kills, and work as deterrence. At the most they're a supportive role. Not meant to be taken as a serious offensive. In the past, Sentinel suits were much more effective and could be used for offensive purposes. Now with the weapons and better scouts, they're easier to handle.
Also logistics don't equip all that stuff so that they can get into direct combat as I assume you think by saying they stack all of that stuff on just to be fleshy. They're meant for a support role, strictly. Now I'm not too sure on the current situation with logistics but they were always meant to be fleshier than the assault and heavy, since their potential goes mostly towards equipment and supporting mods. Of course they should be able to stack on eHP mods but in the current meta, simply having more eHP doesn't change your role dramatically. As a logistics, I only put on weapons on the suits because I want to be able to give that proto stomper at least a bloody nose before he obliterates me with his proto godliness, all while trying to support the team, be it throwing uplinks, tossing hives, bring up a clone or two from termination, or repping everyone in my immediate vicinity. But the tools need to efficiently help the team are costy. Support players shouldn't be penalized this heavily from trying to help the team without slaying everything in sight.
Totally support this. Proto rep tool prices are just too damn high unless bought in the LP store. Same goes for links and hives. ._.
"I went looking for trouble, and I found it." - Charles Ponzi
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Vektus Alvoraan
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
47
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aiwha Bait wrote:Vektus Alvoraan wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:I'll tell you why they aren't priced higher...
1. Mobility
2. Mobility
3. Mobility
Sentinels can't run. Sentinels just tank damage, get the easy kills, and work as deterrence. At the most they're a supportive role. Not meant to be taken as a serious offensive. In the past, Sentinel suits were much more effective and could be used for offensive purposes. Now with the weapons and better scouts, they're easier to handle.
Also logistics don't equip all that stuff so that they can get into direct combat as I assume you think by saying they stack all of that stuff on just to be fleshy. They're meant for a support role, strictly. Now I'm not too sure on the current situation with logistics but they were always meant to be fleshier than the assault and heavy, since their potential goes mostly towards equipment and supporting mods. Of course they should be able to stack on eHP mods but in the current meta, simply having more eHP doesn't change your role dramatically. As a logistics, I only put on weapons on the suits because I want to be able to give that proto stomper at least a bloody nose before he obliterates me with his proto godliness, all while trying to support the team, be it throwing uplinks, tossing hives, bring up a clone or two from termination, or repping everyone in my immediate vicinity. But the tools need to efficiently help the team are costy. Support players shouldn't be penalized this heavily from trying to help the team without slaying everything in sight. Totally support this. Proto rep tool prices are just too damn high unless bought in the LP store. Same goes for links and hives. ._.
Times are tough. ;-;
DUST 514 Closed Beta Vet - Humble logibro, at your service.
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Mejt0
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
776
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
You don't even need adv suit. Std sent with complex reps and std hmg.
It cost around 10-15k and you can kill proto dudes all day.
The conclusion is that their price/efficiency ratio is too high.
Loyal to State. Led by Tibus Heth.
Not scared of death [like Admiral Yakiya Tobil-Toba].
Honour and Mission over money
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Vektus Alvoraan
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
47
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:You don't even need adv suit. Std sent with complex reps and std hmg.
It cost around 10-15k and you can kill proto dudes all day.
The conclusion is that their price/efficiency ratio is too high.
Exactly.
DUST 514 Closed Beta Vet - Humble logibro, at your service.
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
931
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Guys, don't derail the thread into Sentinel QQ.
This thread is about Sentinels being to cheap for what they can do while other roles sacrifice much more ISK upon death.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Jack Boost
Zarena Family
611
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Guys, don't derail the thread into Sentinel QQ.
This thread is about Sentinels being to cheap for what they can do while other roles sacrifice much more ISK upon death.
So you can't make cheap/BPO fit that cost less and be more effective then sentinel?
Strange...
Not much time left...
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
931
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 18:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Guys, don't derail the thread into Sentinel QQ.
This thread is about Sentinels being to cheap for what they can do while other roles sacrifice much more ISK upon death. So you can't make cheap/BPO fit that cost less and be more effective then sentinel? Strange...
Almost nothing is as effective as a Sentinel nowadays. Back then it used to be Scouts, now its Sentinels. At least a well fitted Scout costed much more than a well fitted Sentinel.
This thread is not about me. The thread is about Sentinel Risk vs Reward is little existent in the game.
The slowness of a Sentinel can be nullified by an LAV. Yes LAVs cost ISK but more and more people are buying them Veteran Packs which brings you a BPO LAV. And once simple trading comes in, players that have a few of those BPO LAVs will start selling them for ISK. So if a Sentinel buys it, he is no longer wasting any ISK per lost LAV.
A Logi with a repair tool slaps on to a Sentinel and you have a near undefetable death machine.
The Logi risks more by strapping himself on to repair a Sentinel than the Sentinel itself.
This is not about making a cost efficient suit. This is about Sentinels being too cheap with little weakness.
"Oh but distance" Yeah distance is ruled out. I see more and more Sentinels are equipping a Bolt Pistol. So if you are outside of his HMG range or a little further down, they can still 1-2 shot you with the Bolt Pistol.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Jack Boost
Zarena Family
611
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 19:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:This is not about making a cost efficient suit. This is about Sentinels being too cheap with little weakness .
Read carefuly this thread if you think that sentinels don't have weaknes.
So much points was shown.
- give more slots for sentinels - topic 'cost of isk' will disappear and I will be happy make more fits with much more freedom.
- again if you want ISK and wp as sentinel you must be in fight = you die a lot. Rest dropsuit not realy.
- if you think that heavy and logi are 'god combo'... I will tell you that 2 assaults with price of dropsuits same as heavy+logi do better job overal.
- LAV can be used by anyone, and if you have problem with it try do ... any AV. No point bring it there.
CU
Not much time left...
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
936
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 19:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:This is not about making a cost efficient suit. This is about Sentinels being too cheap with little weakness. Read carefuly this thread if you think that sentinels don't have weaknes. So much points was shown. - give more slots for sentinels - topic 'cost of isk' will disappear and I will be happy make more fits with much more freedom. - again if you want ISK and wp as sentinel you must be in fight = you die a lot. Rest dropsuit not realy. - if you think that heavy and logi are 'god combo'... I will tell you that 2 assaults with price of dropsuits same as heavy+logi do better job overal. - LAV can be used by anyone, and if you have problem with it try do ... any AV. No point bring it there. CU
-More slots in the Sentinel would make it OP
-If any other suit wants to make ISK and WP they have to be in the fight. Except for Logis of course.
-Heavy and logi is a good combo. I have mowed down proto suits while having a logi in my back like it was nothing.
-Yes anyone can use an LAV, but it's the drive by heavies that are the most annoying and the most abusing this mechanic. You can take out AV but you are doing nothing if said heavy is running a BPO LAV and the sentinel driving it would most likely always pull up right next to the AV to take it out.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Aiwha Bait
Demonic Cowboys
67
|
Posted - 2015.02.03 14:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vektus Alvoraan wrote:Aiwha Bait wrote:Vektus Alvoraan wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:I'll tell you why they aren't priced higher...
1. Mobility
2. Mobility
3. Mobility
Sentinels can't run. Sentinels just tank damage, get the easy kills, and work as deterrence. At the most they're a supportive role. Not meant to be taken as a serious offensive. In the past, Sentinel suits were much more effective and could be used for offensive purposes. Now with the weapons and better scouts, they're easier to handle.
Also logistics don't equip all that stuff so that they can get into direct combat as I assume you think by saying they stack all of that stuff on just to be fleshy. They're meant for a support role, strictly. Now I'm not too sure on the current situation with logistics but they were always meant to be fleshier than the assault and heavy, since their potential goes mostly towards equipment and supporting mods. Of course they should be able to stack on eHP mods but in the current meta, simply having more eHP doesn't change your role dramatically. As a logistics, I only put on weapons on the suits because I want to be able to give that proto stomper at least a bloody nose before he obliterates me with his proto godliness, all while trying to support the team, be it throwing uplinks, tossing hives, bring up a clone or two from termination, or repping everyone in my immediate vicinity. But the tools need to efficiently help the team are costy. Support players shouldn't be penalized this heavily from trying to help the team without slaying everything in sight. Totally support this. Proto rep tool prices are just too damn high unless bought in the LP store. Same goes for links and hives. ._. Times are tough. ;-;
Indeed they are, fellow logibro :'(
"I went looking for trouble, and I found it." - Charles Ponzi
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