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iKILLu osborne
Titans of Phoenix
578
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
i always carried my team to victory by uplinking, but with current set up i can't even place a hive without my links going pop, so please do tell why would i gimp my assault just to keep one link that maybe will get 5-6 spawns before the enemy would find it..........
and that be the problem with bw it ruined solo'ist like myself being able to contribute (besides slaying)
if you shoot me from the redline i will ensure your death will be a swift one
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Mexxx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
226
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Regis Blackbird wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:It definitely nerfed players who attempt to carry the team in pubs (i.e provide links and slay). Nothing prevents you from equipping your Assault with uplinks today, and carry your team. Unless you mean dropping a shitload of uplinks with a Logi for WP farming, and then switching to Heavy/ Assault for slaying, then yes... You were nerfed. I always have been using an assault with links, but 2 or 3 links cannot sustain your team. If there are no players on your team placing links and being formidable heavies/assaults pushing the point you were required to do both in order to win. I'm sorry but the assault role does not permit you to slay through multiple heavies. I do think 2 or 3 links in the right place can indeed sustain a team to victory. The problem is the hotspots move during the battle, so earlier links might be rendered useless. If we can carry more, we can replace those with new ones, where they are needed at the moment. @CCP Rattati: Don't wait with this change until the next release. in the right place? you mean if the enemy infantry and vehicles don't have scanners/passive scans?
Hotspots are always relatively on the objective. The problem I'm outlining is that in order to win you needed to place links for your team then do your share (and probably more) slaying/clearing the objective which used to be done in heavy suits or not-gimped-by-uplinks assault suits. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
226
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
iKILLu osborne wrote:it ruined solo'ist like myself being able to contribute (besides slaying) Even a newbro who just started the game and skilled into assault or heavy as his only role could contribute to the game by running a militia light frame and placing several links then switchig to his assault or heavy if he wanted to contribute to the win |
Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
521
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Posted - 2015.01.10 16:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: in the right place? you mean if the enemy infantry and vehicles don't have scanners/passive scans?
There always a right place for the moment. They might find and destroy it, resulting in only 5-6 spawns, but that might do all the difference. Plus I believe Proto equipment have lower profile signature, making them harder to detect.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Hotspots are always relatively on the objective. The problem I'm outlining is that in order to win you needed to place links for your team then do your share (and probably more) slaying/clearing the objective which used to be done in heavy suits or not-gimped-by-uplinks assault suits.
How do you "gimp" your Assault by equipping a spawn uplink? True, you will not be able to equip a scanner of a nanohive, but that is not "gimping" your suite. You trade one advantage with another. Heavies, that is another story, but they excel in CQC combat. They need to trade this advantage with something else.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Then I or my small squad find ourselves saying "we can't switch to heavies or assaults because we have the only uplinks on the field and the loading screen doesn't tell our bluedots to bring uplinks"
Yes, if you are going solo you can't provide links for the team and then switch to a heavy. But that is the entire point of the system. If you find that your team is missing the essential link deployment role, then switch to a logi and fill that role. That is how you carry your team, you fill the role which is missing. If they can't kill for **** either...well then they are missing more than one role.
If you are in a small squad, I really don't see the problem. You split the roles between you. If everybody likes doing everything, you take turns beeing the "slayer" and "provider". Hell, you won't loose that much either, as a Logi / Heavy combo is a very potent mix.
With that said, I fully agree with you the information (in-game) regarding bandwidth is subpar at best, and needs to be improved.
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Green Means Go
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2015.01.10 16:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
I stopped playing the day they announced the equipment nerf. Nothing left for me in dust. I did log in a couple weeks ago and dropped my 6 links. Sat the rest of match out on Mcc roof in my thale logi fit. :) Haven't played since. Dust has lost all the glitter it once had. I'll spend my money elsewhere. |
Boot Booter
Titans of Phoenix
1155
|
Posted - 2015.01.10 16:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
bw was a huge improvement in my opinion. It gives true logis a role and reduced equipment spam a ton. Honestly I hate uplinks, I wish they would get nerfed again in terms of number of units spawned from them. I wish there was more of a focus on vehicle transport and mobile CRUs. This would introduce a whole new role into dust. However there are still too many uplinks for people to care to spawn on mobile CRUs and AV is too strong at the moment for this role to be profitable.
My only issue with bw is I wish they added a little gauge on the hud that filled up as you placed equipment so you have some idea of how much bw capacity you have left. |
Boot Booter
Titans of Phoenix
1155
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Posted - 2015.01.10 16:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
Green Means Go wrote:I stopped playing the day they announced the equipment nerf. Nothing left for me in dust. I did log in a couple weeks ago and dropped my 6 links. Sat the rest of match out on Mcc roof in my thale logi fit. :) Haven't played since. Dust has lost all the glitter it once had. I'll spend my money elsewhere.
It wasn't a equipment nerf you herb. If anything it was a logi buff. And all other role nerf. What did you do before? You can still drop equipment you just actually have to think about where you put it instead of spamming it all over the place. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
230
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Posted - 2015.01.10 17:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: in the right place? you mean if the enemy infantry and vehicles don't have scanners/passive scans?
There always a right place for the moment. They might find and destroy it, resulting in only 5-6 spawns, but that might do all the difference. Plus I believe Proto equipment have lower profile signature, making them harder to detect. Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Hotspots are always relatively on the objective. The problem I'm outlining is that in order to win you needed to place links for your team then do your share (and probably more) slaying/clearing the objective which used to be done in heavy suits or not-gimped-by-uplinks assault suits.
How do you "gimp" your Assault by equipping a spawn uplink? True, you will not be able to equip a scanner of a nanohive, but that is not "gimping" your suite. You trade one advantage with another. Heavies, that is another story, but they excel in CQC combat. They need to trade this advantage with something else. Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Then I or my small squad find ourselves saying "we can't switch to heavies or assaults because we have the only uplinks on the field and the loading screen doesn't tell our bluedots to bring uplinks"
Yes, if you are going solo you can't provide links for the team and then switch to a heavy. But that is the entire point of the system.If you find that your team is missing the essential link deployment role, then switch to a logi and fill that role. That is how you carry your team, you fill the role which is missing. If they can't kill for **** either...well then they are missing more than one role. If you are in a small squad, I really don't see the problem. You split the roles between you. If everybody likes doing everything, you take turns beeing the "slayer" and "provider". Hell, you won't loose that much either, as a Logi / Heavy combo is a very potent mix. With that said, I fully agree with you the information (in-game) regarding bandwidth is subpar at best, and needs to be improved. Uplinks definitely require you to downgrade several modules to fit one on whatever tier dropsuit.
I'm emphasizing that if your team's heavies are clearly an inadequate force to take the objective, you cannot switch roles to do what they can't because you'll redline your team by destroying the only uplinks.
Bandwidth was the right idea but was not thought out meticuously, it has done more harm than good - a waste of time. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9168
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Posted - 2015.01.10 17:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:You know what isn't boring no matter what happens, like literally you cannot be bored no matter what type of match you get put in..... Plasma cannon scout, slap on red bottles and damp - drive by plc everybody! Or die trying.... (Usually die trying but its great fun) You have to master the craft of the PLC, Look what this matchmaking has done to me! Damn, CCP. Why cant we have teams set up evenly.... Even that would still be boring against the Caldari in FW
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
521
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Posted - 2015.01.10 17:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote: My only issue with bw is I wish they added a little gauge on the hud that filled up as you placed equipment so you have some idea of how much bw capacity you have left.
Amen +1
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1753
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Posted - 2015.01.10 22:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:bw was a huge improvement in my opinion. It gives true logis a role and reduced equipment spam a ton. Honestly I hate uplinks, I wish they would get nerfed again in terms of number of units spawned from them. I wish there was more of a focus on vehicle transport and mobile CRUs. This would introduce a whole new role into dust. However there are still too many uplinks for people to care to spawn on mobile CRUs and AV is too strong at the moment for this role to be profitable.
My only issue with bw is I wish they added a little gauge on the hud that filled up as you placed equipment so you have some idea of how much bw capacity you have left.
I honestly do not understand all this talk of new roles. We only have 16 people per side and out of that a minimum of 3-4 of them are AFK farming. If you add many more roles and lock people into things like bandwidth does matches are going to be decided by the one person on the team that actually goes after an objective.
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Middas Betancore
Mantodea MC
336
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 07:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
I "think" the idea was to make ppl choose, death to omni-soldier 5000 etc
No u cannot haz all the links and pwn all the things while sitting in triage hives while the tank pops on yr minefield But with a bit of thought u can do a bit of each Or spread the roles out between ur sqd
BW is awesome, requires tactical thought (not included)
At a STRETCH of compromise maybe sentinel frames can get 4/6/8?
It's a game that thrives on planning and teamwork, BW reinforces this idea
"Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
3058
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 09:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Middas Betancore wrote:I "think" the idea was to make ppl choose, death to omni-soldier 5000 etc
No u cannot haz all the links and pwn all the things while sitting in triage hives while the tank pops on yr minefield But with a bit of thought u can do a bit of each Or spread the roles out between ur sqd
BW is awesome, requires tactical thought (not included)
At a STRETCH of compromise maybe sentinel frames can get 4/6/8?
It's a game that thrives on planning and teamwork, BW reinforces this idea
All Bandwidth does in the big picture of what your saying... Is nerf and limit a player because they are too good... So they should have limitations and be controlled otherwise it will get out of hand.
We went from DUST being about building a Sandbox... To Having a game where GM's change names for players and legitimately Scammed ISK get's returned to the victim.
*Shrugs* |
SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
743
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Posted - 2015.01.11 17:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
I see lots of Drop Uplinks on the field. I do not know what you are tripping on. |
SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
743
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 17:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Nothing stops any of you from using Drop Uplinks anymore. You just can not spam them stupidly. You can still be a Scout that gets quickly out to great spots to drop strategic Uplinks. |
Middas Betancore
Mantodea MC
346
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Posted - 2015.01.11 17:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Limit a player cos they are too good......ow my brain
All u do is hate and gripe
"Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
5429
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 17:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Middas Betancore wrote:I "think" the idea was to make ppl choose, death to omni-soldier 5000 etc
No u cannot haz all the links and pwn all the things while sitting in triage hives while the tank pops on yr minefield But with a bit of thought u can do a bit of each Or spread the roles out between ur sqd
BW is awesome, requires tactical thought (not included)
At a STRETCH of compromise maybe sentinel frames can get 4/6/8?
It's a game that thrives on planning and teamwork, BW reinforces this idea
All Bandwidth does in the big picture of what your saying... Is nerf and limit a player because they are too good... So they should have limitations and be controlled otherwise it will get out of hand. We went from DUST being about building a Sandbox... To Having a game where GM's change names for players and legitimately Scammed ISK get's returned to the victim. *Shrugs* Bandwidth isn't a nerf to "good players" lol
Since when was equipment spam considered a skill? |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
1057
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Posted - 2015.01.11 17:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Regis Blackbird wrote:Although I have no major problem with the current BW mechanic (apart from lack of visual GUI in-game), I think the initial idea was to increase the number of carried equipment. This would mean you might only have the bandwith to place 1 uplink, but you can carry 5, and replace the one at strategic times. Now I can agree that the uplinks "run out" too quickly.
I also think the "max active units" on each equipment is a bit redundant now with the introduction of BW. If you have the available bandwith, only the "max carried" should limit you (which should be increased as stated above)
yes, it's our stated goal to increase carried for all equipment. And reduce proxies to 1 bw.
And remotes? I got on Basic Assault suit as I wanted to use Basic remotes. Placed 3 down. First exploded. Looked at BW requirements. Each remote is 3 BW, text says max deploy is 3. Suit BW is...... 8.
Wow..... seriously wrong, yes/ Yes. Very most much wrong. Brain hurt wrong. Wrong hurt brain. Wrong Mostest. Wronger than Sentuncez wrytten hear. ikz zoo wrawng, itkz make wryting hward. Whai8 so wra2ng? ette hyurtzz. Plz fyzxe.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Mregomies
Beer For Evil Mercs
314
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 18:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
I'm a proud logibro. I drop proto hives/links allover the field and support my team... but... when enemy start spamming tanks I switch to protoforge sentinel and buffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff... all my shiny hives and link dissapear. That sucks
Suomi, Finland, PERKELE!
Logibro
Logibro2
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Orber Gen
Academy Inferno E-R-A
277
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 18:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:I personally feel that this whole bandwidth run was a waste of time and solved little to nothing.
Many players say that even at start of bandwidth discussion. CCP acting like the fixing not the disease, but the try to heal sympthoms.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
3060
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Posted - 2015.01.11 18:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Bethhy wrote:Middas Betancore wrote:I "think" the idea was to make ppl choose, death to omni-soldier 5000 etc
No u cannot haz all the links and pwn all the things while sitting in triage hives while the tank pops on yr minefield But with a bit of thought u can do a bit of each Or spread the roles out between ur sqd
BW is awesome, requires tactical thought (not included)
At a STRETCH of compromise maybe sentinel frames can get 4/6/8?
It's a game that thrives on planning and teamwork, BW reinforces this idea
All Bandwidth does in the big picture of what your saying... Is nerf and limit a player because they are too good... So they should have limitations and be controlled otherwise it will get out of hand. We went from DUST being about building a Sandbox... To Having a game where GM's change names for players and legitimately Scammed ISK get's returned to the victim. *Shrugs* Bandwidth isn't a nerf to "good players" lol Since when was equipment spam considered a skill?
How is it not a nerf? It is a general nerf to the sandbox gameplay of DUST to then control and limit players abilities they would otherwise have in it.
To What? Reduce Lag? Nope..... Stop Rooftop camping that lasts all match and doesn't progress a match? Nope.
To allow more tactics? Hell no, that is assbackwards thinking.... There are reasons soldiers carry such big backpacks.
Using the phrase "Equipment spam" as if that has any relation to a skilled player using the tools of the game. Is a bit Naiive.. There is equipment spam... But most often it isn't a "Skill" or done by a "Skilled" player.
Worse is that Bandwidth hasn't got rid of Equipment spam... There are still equipment infestations at supply depots and roofs just the same.
The only sure change is that Solo players can contribute less to the objective of maps, And spawn points are extremely rare except in equipment spammed roofs and Supply depots.
Bandwidth is a neat idea... But that is as far as it goes.
It's the same as Scanning.... It's a neat concept... But that is as far as it goes... DUST worked far better when everyone could see everyone on the Radar... It took skill to flank.. It was a giant chess match.... Now it's just an abused feature and or one that half the population doesn't understand at all.
But Hey? Bandwidth made squads stronger... They obviously weren't strong enough before this change. |
Sir Petersen
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1100
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Posted - 2015.01.11 19:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
It-¦s strange to kill off a whole clan of gamers when nerfing things while trying to make the game better.
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LAVALLOIS Nash
406
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Posted - 2015.01.11 19:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
iKILLu osborne wrote:
and that be the problem with bw it ruined solo'ist like myself being able to contribute (besides slaying)
Thats kind of the idea. It infuriates people who have been in squads their entire time to see someone able to make it without seeking out all the help they had to seek. They feel that you should either be in a squad taking orders, or you should be a non impact player on the fringes.
It does sort of make sense though. If you spend your entire life with training wheels on your bike, its pretty maddening to see someone new come along and jump onto a bike without training wheels and go. I dont agree at all with the mentality, but I can see where it comes from.
Middas Betancore wrote:I "think" the idea was to make ppl choose, death to omni-soldier 5000 etc
No u cannot haz all the links and pwn all the things while sitting in triage hives while the tank pops on yr minefield But with a bit of thought u can do a bit of each Or spread the roles out between ur sqd
If the idea was to make people choose, why can a Scout still run up to a Supply Depot and switch into a HMG? Why can an assault run up to a Supply Depot and switch to a dual swarm commando? Assaults, Commandos and Scouts can still drop equipment. They are still eating from my logi plate.
Also, friendly reminder, not everyone plays in squads. I dont need 5 other people to fight my fights for me. Im a complete player, not 1/6th of one.
Middas Betancore wrote:BW is awesome, requires tactical thought (not included)
At a STRETCH of compromise maybe sentinel frames can get 4/6/8?
It's a game that thrives on planning and teamwork, BW reinforces this idea
Not really, it takes away from tactical thought. Tactics is the ability to address rapidly changing situations in the battlefield and to anticipate results enough to plan for the unpredictable. In short, if you have a solid tactic, it holds up to even unknown threats.
Removing how much equipment I can drop AND locking me to one type of suit is not tactical. Tactical is an unexpected forgegun shot out of nowhere scaring off that ADS thats been buzzing the team for 5 minutes. Tactical is a enemy blaster tank rolling over mines as it gets ready to rip into the teams rear. Tactical is a dropship or LAV arriving into a combat zone, deploying supplies, and leaving like a bat out of hell. Tactics take preparation and planning.
What we have now is not tactical. Because I can only drop so much, the suit has to be expensive, and the same expensive or more expensive logi suit has to be frankensteined into other roles....what happens is the bare minimum. Put the uplinks in the safest, most likely to be trafficked areas, then either switch to my Chrion BPO (which most people cant do), or a grab a sniper and get as far from danger as I can. If the uplinks run out, ill go get a dropship and replace them. If they get destroyed, well, ill probably avoid taking personal losses if its a losing game and say its not my problem.
The OP is right, the intensity is not there anymore. If you like to farm numbers, this is a great time, as there are alot of militia suits coming out of fewer, more predictable points. If instead you have fun by trying to carry outmatched teams and beat the establishment, well, yeah its pretty boring now. The oppressive squad majority wins this round.
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Celus Ivara
DUST University Ivy League
267
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 19:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
So as a player who's been running an Uplink Scout as my main since closed Beta, the Bandwidth changes have crippled my role. As such I have given the mechanic and it's results on the dynamic a lot of thought.
One main thing that has to be admitted right from the start is that Bandwidth was introduced to fix the very nasty problem of Equipment-Spam>Swap, and it has effectively eliminated that problem. Even though BW has crippled my role and led to a number of other issues in the dynamic, I do have to be honest about this upfront: Dust as it is right now, is better than before Bandwidth.
With that said, there are a number of new issues that Bandwidth has caused.
- Deployable Logi's can no longer swap out of their role to deal with a changing battlefield. - Vets can no longer fix the problem of blueberries who can't/won't/don't-know-how-to deploy uplinks. - The role of Deployable Support is now hard bound to the Logi suit-class, completely eliminating the 3 other suit-classes. - Less Uplinks on the battlefield has made it so it very often takes far longer to get back into combat.
I've spent (an honestly unconscionable amount of) time thinking about this issue. I've come to the point where I see two possible "fixes" to Bandwidth that would soften/eliminate most of these problems. Note that both of the solutions are based on differing ideas of what the core issue of "Equipment-Spam>Swap" was (specifically, what the missing cost was) and then applying a fix directly to that.
#1: Core Spam>Swap issue: "The problem of players deploying a bunch of equipment and then swapping roles is that it enables a player to bring more power to the battle with no additional fitting cost." Issue explanation: A Logi with deployables out is good. A well fit Slayer is good. A well fit Slayer with deployables out is great! In fact if you are staying in your deployables fit Logi suit after getting your gear in place, or if you are fighting in your well fit Slayer suit without first getting deployables out, you are objectively & mathematically playing sub-par.
Solution: Make it so if a player switches to a Slayer suit and they have equipment out that they want to keep, make them "carry the burden of it on their back". Add a module that can be fitted to any suit that increases Bandwidth. Any player in any suit can have a decent amount of equipment out, but they now have to hinder their fit by sacrificing one or more slots and a bunch of CPU/PG to do so. Now you have: A Logi with deployables out is good. A well fit Slayer is good. A sub-par fit Slayer with deployables out is good.
The community has been suggesting #1 for a while now. After having thought on this for a long time, I eventually found a second perspective/solution to the situation.
#2: Core Spam>Swap issue: "The problem of players deploying a bunch of equipment and then swapping roles is that it enables a player to bring more power to the battle with very little time cost." When you get to the highend of play, and start considering all the in-game resources needed to win fights, you start to realize that more valuable than clones, MCC health, or ISK, is probably the single most precious resource: Time. Players spend time to achieve goals on the battlefield. Killing, healing, hacking, getting from A to B, plaicng equipment,... You spend time to achieve your goals. When you hurt an enemy the main thing you are costing them is thier time. The value in wounding a HAV/ADS is they have to run away and spend time healing. the point of wounding a player is they have to take cover and spend time healing instead of killing/hacking/advancing. Killing an enemy forces them back to the nearest spawn and they have to burn time spawning in and covering territory. Placing uplinks lessens the time cost for your entire army; consistently denying the enemy army good span points will win any any battle since they can't operate at the same time efficiency as your army. Time is an incredibly precious resource to both the individual player and to the team as a whole. The core issue with people quickly spamming a ton of equipment in a Logi suit and then instantly swapping to a Slayer fit was that they were manifesting a buch of Logi power with out paying the usual Logi time cost.
Solution: Make it so there is a hindrance to rapidly spamming equipment then swapping. Now some members of the community had already been proposing various mechanics that would target this; limits to how fast deployables can be dropped; limits to how close deployables can be placed to a Supply Depot. But the suggestions kept getting shot down by other players due to those mechanics causing massive other problems. The idea I hit on though was that Bandwidth should no longer limit how much total equipment you can have deployed, but rather how much you can have quickly deployed. The specific mechanic I'd offer for consideration is: what if every piece of deployed equipment gradually took less BW the longer it was out? (For narrative reasons, let's say the MCC and the deployable tuned into each other over time and eventually the specific piece needed less Bandwidth to exist.) This BW cost decrease happens for only one equipment piece at a time. To offer some numbers for discussion, let's say every 10 seconds a deployable is out it costs 1 less BW, eventually ending at zero. So, one uplink will take 40 seconds to decrease to no BW cost. Two uplinks will take 80 seconds. |
Celus Ivara
DUST University Ivy League
267
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 19:59:00 -
[55] - Quote
So, lets run some examples: (Note: For easy math, I'm treating all these as: Deployable = 4 BW Slayer fit equals 12 BW)
Spammer scenario: Spammer hits a Supply Depot and floods the area with equipment. The fist piece of gear hit the ground basically instantly and about 12 seconds and 8 pieces of gear later, the last piece of gear is out and the spammer swaps to a Slayer fit. The first piece of gear has ticked down from 4 to 3, all the other gear still cost what it did before, all but the first 3 pieces of equipment pop. Same behavior we have today.
Logi encountering needed role change scenario: Logi reaches an enemy objective with their squad, places an uplink and a hive, pulls out a Rep-tool and heals the squad as they take the objective. 80 seconds later the 'link and 'hive cost 0 BW. Some time later the team clears the area and takes the objective. Logi reiforces the target by deploying 5 pieaces of equipmet throughtout the area. BW cost for everything now at 20 BW. Squad fights off enemies over the next 140 seconds. Tank rolls up and Logi player is designated AV. Switches to Slayer-AV. Bandwitdth cost of 6 BW easily fits into 12 BW of Slayer; nothing pops. Tank is fended off and runs to heal; player swaps back to Logi fit.
Support Scout scenario: Uplink Scout runs towards Charlie, 100m out places a 'link. Hacks cannon. Runs towards city, pauses 150m away from Charlie, turns around and drops a 'link. 30 seconds have passed since first drop; first 'link at 1 BW and second at 4 BW. 20 seconds later, reaches city, cloaks, spends 20 seconds parkouring up pipes to reach a safe-ish point, drops 'link. First at 0 BW, second at 1 BW, third at 4 BW. Out of 'links, Scout fights in city, 10 seconds later is killed (I'm basically narrating me here ;) ). Looks at map, no enemies at Charlie and allies spawnign into city fight; chooses to enemy's natural cannon at Delta. Spawns in as cloase as possible (which is not close at all) and marathons to Delta. 150m out drops a 'link. 40 sec since last drop; first at 0 BW, second at 0 BW, third at 1 BW, forth at 4 BW. Proceds to Delta, hacks it, intantly killed by a spray of bullets lust as the hack finishes. Looks at map, Delta being counter-hacked, Charlie has been hacked by enemy, first uplink destroyed by enemy, city uplink destroyed by enemy, allies spawing off second uplink to retake Charlie. Decide to ignore Delta for now, and rely on teamates to reatake Charlie; maintaining a beachhead at city more important. Spawn at uplink near Delta and turn around and run at city. 100m out place 'link. 20 seconds since last drop; first is dead, second at 0 BW, third is dead, forth at 0 BW, fifth at 4 BW. Enter city, place 'link inside in some out of the way place, find enemy, fight, die. Look at map,.... Process of continually repositioning uplinks as they are popped, and atepting to hack/fight continues rest of match.
Heavy with bad team scenario: Heavy spawns in, calls LAV, waits for blueberries to load in, rushes middle of map. Objectives at ceter are captured and defesive fighting ensues for the next few minutes. Eventually the Heavy notices thier allies aren't taking any of the other objectives, checks the map and sees no uplinks out. Realizes this is a losing situation, swaps to an uplink Logi suit and over the next 120 seconds gets 5 uplinks out. Now, the first three 'links are at 0 BW, but the last two are at 4 each; if the player switches back to Heavy now, the first three will remain, but the last two will pop. Player stays in Logi and heals and fights for the next couple minutes. All uplinks now at 0 BW, they switch back to Heavy.
Notice how in the four scenarios above, the only one that can't play the way they did before Bandwitdh is the Spammer. Everyone else is able to invest time, ISK, and cunning to help their team just as they used to be able to do before BW was implimented.
Notes: #1 has issues with making fitting a bit annoyhing. If player isn't expecting to have to swap between Deployables and other roles, they will have to screw with fits mid-battle.
#2 has issues with it being confusing what equipment is costing what Bandwidth. New Bandwidth GUI would largely elivaite this, but it would still exist to some degree.
If we implement #2 we can't get rid of the "Max deployed" stat as some have suggested, else we'll have no total cap what so ever, and we get to findout how many of an infite pool of deployables is needed to crash a map. |
Celus Ivara
DUST University Ivy League
267
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Posted - 2015.01.11 20:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
Reserved 3 |
DDx77
The Exemplars RISE of LEGION
75
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 20:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Regis Blackbird wrote:Although I have no major problem with the current BW mechanic (apart from lack of visual GUI in-game), I think the initial idea was to increase the number of carried equipment. This would mean you might only have the bandwith to place 1 uplink, but you can carry 5, and replace the one at strategic times. Now I can agree that the uplinks "run out" too quickly.
I also think the "max active units" on each equipment is a bit redundant now with the introduction of BW. If you have the available bandwith, only the "max carried" should limit you (which should be increased as stated above)
yes, it's our stated goal to increase carried for all equipment. And reduce proxies to 1 bw.
BW for proxy mines makes no sense
Please reduce proxy BW to zero.
You need six just to kill anything.
And if I manage to not get killed by the time it takes to drop proxies they are still a very unreliable form of AV as they can be avoided/blown up
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DDx77
The Exemplars RISE of LEGION
75
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 21:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:deezy dabest wrote:Just took another shot at playing, this is like my 4th time since BW introduction, and it is just BORING.
Between matchmaking being trash and BW making for very very few uplinks on the field it just makes pace of play terrible. I know I kept saying this would happen when BW was being discussed so it may seem that I am just trying to be right but it is FAR worse than I was expecting. It is great for the logis who do choose to stick to uplinks and stack up WP but for everyone else it is just plain BAD.
Either fix matchmaking or make some huge changes to BW. Looking at the changes that have been made it would seem that the game should be in a great place but it is unplayable in the long term sense right now thanks to being out right boring. The Questions about Bandwidth we have to ask. Did it reduce Lag? No. Did it stop Rooftop camping and infestations of rooftop camping that don't progress a match? Nope. What was Bandwidth for?
Bandwidth was created to make the small sect of logi users feel important.
I think they could have imposed certain restrictions on uplink and nanohives and not created a new convoluted "feature"
example for uplinks: maximum two uplinks active per player. example for nanohives : maximum one nanohive per player. Exception is logi which can have max three or four active, must stay in logi suit And finally - uplinks and nanohives cannot be deployed near a supply depot up to 15 or 20 meters (or whatever makes sense)
This is a much simpler solution that avoids the nonsense of BW on proxy mines |
Niuvo
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1433
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 21:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Just took another shot at playing, this is like my 4th time since BW introduction, and it is just BORING.
Between matchmaking being trash and BW making for very very few uplinks on the field it just makes pace of play terrible. I know I kept saying this would happen when BW was being discussed so it may seem that I am just trying to be right but it is FAR worse than I was expecting. It is great for the logis who do choose to stick to uplinks and stack up WP but for everyone else it is just plain BAD.
Either fix matchmaking or make some huge changes to BW. Looking at the changes that have been made it would seem that the game should be in a great place but it is unplayable in the long term sense right now thanks to being out right boring. Switch s*** up or don't play. |
iKILLu osborne
Titans of Phoenix
584
|
Posted - 2015.01.11 22:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:iKILLu osborne wrote:it ruined solo'ist like myself being able to contribute (besides slaying) Even a newbro who just started the game and skilled into assault or heavy as his only role could contribute to the game by running a militia light frame and placing several links then switchig to his assault or heavy if he wanted to contribute to the win yeah he can but you know i run core locus on all my fits and having my hives is way way better than 1 or two uplinks that can be destroyed by a 400 wp strike or a scout 1 minute after i deploy em
if you shoot me from the redline i will ensure your death will be a swift one
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