DUST Search - Reasonable Nerf to Heavies

All Channels

General Discussions

Reasonable Nerf to Heavies

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 413	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:11:00 - [1] - Quote So where did the idea of nerfing heavies come from? They went unchanged for half a year, except for the recent heat buildup Nerf, but i guess wasn't enough? Its like the saying,"you give them an inch theyll take the mile." So my question is how far do you want to take it, on the level of the ads Nerf; unusable except for top players, or on the level of the recent scr Nerf? I say no Nerf should be given, because lets be honest, get some skill. I take heavies all day in my logi, scout, commando, any suit. It's called tactics, different suits come with different tactics. If I'm in a scout I'm going to flank, in an assault god mode strafe him, in a logi get cover and let my heavy take him. Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 453	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:49:00 - [2] - Quote Agreed 100 percent Robin Williams endorses this corp
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1593	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:53:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There are so many reasons to nerf heavies
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 414	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:58:00 - [4] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: There are so many reasons to nerf heavies I wasnt aware Rattati played heavy. Also he said the same about assault dropships and look at what cr*p they've become. Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2104	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:59:00 - [5] - Quote Saying that they are fine because theyve been unchanged for half a year isnt really a good argument in this situation. They were heavily buffed in 1.8, along with scouts. For the most part, people tolerated them because Scouts were even better, and they were good at killing scouts. They got huge resistance buffs, more PG/CPU, and iirc, more slots and HP... That's a massive buff, and Heavies were seen as fairly balanced before all that. Now that scouts are more balanced though, Heavies have a lot of power that that don't need anymore. We don't need Heavies to be powerful in order to keep scouts in control anymore, since scouts are already under control. Home at Last <3
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1237	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:00:00 - [6] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: They went unchanged for half a year exactly, they ve been OP for half a year, it is about time to balance them!!!! One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1593	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:02:00 - [7] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: I wasnt aware Rattati played heavy. Nor did he play Scout, yet he accurately deduced that they were overperforming. ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Also he said the same about assault dropships and look at what cr*p they've become. The ADS was blatantly OP. And when Rattati approached pilots to discuss reasonable fix, they swore up-and-down that everything was fine.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3021	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:05:00 - [8] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Saying that they are fine because theyve been unchanged for half a year isnt really a good argument in this situation. They were heavily buffed in 1.8, along with scouts. For the most part, people tolerated them because Scouts were even better, and they were good at killing scouts. They got huge resistance buffs, more PG/CPU, and iirc, more slots and HP... That's a massive buff, and Heavies were seen as fairly balanced before all that. Now that scouts are more balanced though, Heavies have a lot of power that that don't need anymore. We don't need Heavies to be powerful in order to keep scouts in control anymore, since scouts are already under control. Lol..... You can't be this blind. Heavies where fine because they had a hard counter... Everyone cried to nerf the hard counter.... Now the heavy doesn't have a competitive hard counter. And people whine to nerf the Heavy. Then when we are back in Assault 514... People will want to buff the heavy to balance it... Then because the heavy is so strong we just buff the scout. Welcome to the CIRCLE OF DUST. Want to know how to counter a heavy perfectly? Walk backwards instead of towards them... If you run out of room or there is no room to walk backwards? Grab some explosives. Anyone that says a Heavy is to strong in this game has never played one... Has never walked across an open space and felt absolutely useless without a chance to even defend yourself.. Heavies are balanced because they are good at one thing but terrible at nearly everything else... And is good and bad at Exactly the opposite from every other class.. Stop fighting a Heavy where their one strength in gameplay is... Nerfing a class because they are too good at their role on the battlefield is about as stupid as this forum gets.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 414	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:07:00 - [9] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Saying that they are fine because theyve been unchanged for half a year isnt really a good argument in this situation. They were heavily buffed in 1.8, along with scouts. For the most part, people tolerated them because Scouts were even better, and they were good at killing scouts. They got huge resistance buffs, more PG/CPU, and iirc, more slots and HP... That's a massive buff, and Heavies were seen as fairly balanced before all that. Now that scouts are more balanced though, Heavies have a lot of power that that don't need anymore. We don't need Heavies to be powerful in order to keep scouts in control anymore, since scouts are already under control. A heavy can be countered by anything, its not right to balance it around scouts. Also i have a scout account and have no problem taking on heavies, just sidestep on them or RES, all work well. Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1593	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:12:00 - [10] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Nerfing a class because they are too good at their role on the battlefield is about as stupid as this forum gets. This sounds like something Spkr might say. Are there not degrees of good? Picture a gauge which begins with barely good enough and ends with way too good. Might there be a happy medium along that continuum?

MetalWolf-Cell ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 24	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:18:00 - [11] - Quote I say heavy spam is due to Map design Most maps in domination encourage player to envelope in close spaces And what are Heavies good at.... I often see people run toward a heavy, thinking strafing will save them, which it does sometimes. All to often though they get obliterated and then complain that they died to roll meant for HEAVY CQC. However, in maps where people like to camp pipes, There is relative diversity. You don't see heavy's running rampant unless taking out vehicles. It's usually variations of dropsuits. Besides, Heavies had it bad before. Nerfing them would only cause as bethy rightly put it "THE CIRCLE OF DUST." Want to kill it a heavy? Stay at range if your an assault/logi. Scout? be smart and use flank maneuvers or just use RE's. It isn't hard to exploit a weakness. Like I said, I think it's map design encouraging Heavy spam. DUST 514/LEGION
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 414	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:24:00 - [12] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: I wasnt aware Rattati played heavy. Nor did he play Scout, yet he accurately deduced that they were overperforming. ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Also he said the same about assault dropships and look at what cr*p they've become. The ADS was blatantly OP. And when Rattati approached pilots to discuss reasonable fix, they swore up-and-down that everything was fine. So why not buff Ads now? Its so UP to anyone without max skills. I'm a maxed out ads pilot and I know why vehicles were nerfed so badly. Ccp thought vehicles were putting off new players from their game so they decided,"why not make Dust a little more like every other successful fps game ever made by nerfing vehicles til they're just decorations on the field to make look like somethings actually going on." When was the Last time you were afraid of a blaster madrugar? Me, never even in my heavy I can avoid their rounds. Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1593	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:28:00 - [13] - Quote When I see Addict Punk and Milkman in Ambush OMS, I expect to see two Blaster Tanks.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 414	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:41:00 - [14] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: When I see Addict Punk and Milkman in Ambush OMS, I expect to see two Blaster Tanks. These are players who stomp with ruthless brutality, minimize risk and maximize odds of a win. They wouldn't be in Blaster Tanks if Blaster Tanks didn't work. When was the last time you've seen an average tanker go 20/0 or better? Anyways Milkman1 and these top tanker guys have special tactics. I've watched them when I was learning vehicles. They'll come in with their hardeners or whatever modules activated and proto buddies and just brutally assault the reds and then just take a lap when modules deactivate or when Av comes out. And they plan their escape routes and all that too. Really impressive to tank like that nowadays. Now Duna he sucks, waste of squad space. Hell just roll in, get hit by 1 swarm roll back to redline and just sit there. Few times I've seen him, didn't even break 4 kills in a skirm. Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1595	Posted - 2015.01.09 14:46:00 - [15] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: When was the last time you've seen an average tanker go 20/0 or better? I've not seen an average anything go 20/0 for quite some time. 20/0 today implies attentive and competent play. There are present-day equivalents to the no low-risk/high-reward 1.7 HAV.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 414	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:05:00 - [16] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: When was the last time you've seen an average tanker go 20/0 or better? I've not seen an average anything go 20/0 for quite some time. 20/0 today implies attentive and competent play; these are characteristics of an above-average player. There are no present-day equivalents to the low-risk/high-reward 1.7 HAV ... and let's hope it remains that way (there's much mouthbreathery to be found over there). Militia tanks should of never existed in the 1st place. If you want to tank you should have skills in tanking. That's why we got the tank nerfs because of 1.7 50k militia tank spam. I'm looking forward to vehicles being brought back, have a few mil sp still on the vehicle account I never use. Proud owner of 4 proto commandos and 3 proto sentinels. All except amarr sent, its a beginner heavy tbh.:p
Skullmiser Vulcansu 234	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:10:00 - [17] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Heavies where fine because they had a hard counter... Everyone cried to nerf the hard counter.... Now the heavy doesn't have a competitive hard counter. And people whine to nerf the Heavy. Then when we are back in Assault 514... People will want to buff the heavy to balance it... Then because the heavy is so strong we just buff the scout. Welcome to the CIRCLE OF DUST. Oh no... why can't there be another Slayer Logi phase? I want that part of the circle back. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
Zene Ren Bragian Order Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:38:00 - [18] - Quote the only nerf heavy should get is 10% rotation/turning around penalty and maybe two times higher suit cost IMO. it should be a beast of a suit and cost more still IMO heavy with rep logi needs to stay as it is IMO also as it was always and should be always a beast of a combo IMO also. scouts need a 10% rotation/turn around buff,assaults should stay as they are as it was at some point in the game, although vocal whiners made it clear they did not wanted that turning around difference ;S above that resistance infantry modules should be in game and full racial heavy weapons parity also now but the reality is that we still need to wait for the rest of racial weapons/vehicles/structures etc. Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1009	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:49:00 - [19] - Quote Skullmiser Vulcansu wrote: Bethhy wrote: Heavies where fine because they had a hard counter... Everyone cried to nerf the hard counter.... Now the heavy doesn't have a competitive hard counter. And people whine to nerf the Heavy. Then when we are back in Assault 514... People will want to buff the heavy to balance it... Then because the heavy is so strong we just buff the scout. Welcome to the CIRCLE OF DUST. Oh no... why can't there be another Slayer Logi phase? I want that part of the circle back. Because that would involve Logis getting buffed? And that's not happening. If for no other reason, then simply because all the scouts and assaults and vehicle pilots and yes, even heavies, are united in their firm belief that Logis, at least, must stay the weakest class in the game Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1599	Posted - 2015.01.09 16:05:00 - [20] - Quote Zene Ren wrote: the only nerf heavy should get is 10% rotation/turning around penalty and maybe two times higher suit cost IMO. it should be a beast of a suit and cost more still IMO heavy with rep logi needs to stay as it is IMO also as it was always and should be always a beast of a combo IMO also. scouts need a 10% rotation/turn around buff,assaults should stay as they are as it was at some point in the game, although vocal whiners made it clear they did not wanted that turning around difference ;S above that resistance infantry modules should be in game and full racial heavy weapons parity also now but the reality is that we still need to wait for the rest of racial weapons/vehicles/structures etc. I must disagree with both of these solutions. Balancing around Isk doesn't work when Isk hasn't value; to many veterans, Isk has very little meaning. As for differing rotation speeds, balance-minded heavies like Fox Gaden have explained that this would make target tracking in CQC impossible.

Zene Ren Bragian Order Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2015.01.09 16:36:00 - [21] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Zene Ren wrote: the only nerf heavy should get is 10% rotation/turning around penalty and maybe two times higher suit cost IMO. it should be a beast of a suit and cost more still IMO heavy with rep logi needs to stay as it is IMO also as it was always and should be always a beast of a combo IMO also. scouts need a 10% rotation/turn around buff,assaults should stay as they are as it was at some point in the game, although vocal whiners made it clear they did not wanted that turning around difference ;S above that resistance infantry modules should be in game and full racial heavy weapons parity also now but the reality is that we still need to wait for the rest of racial weapons/vehicles/structures etc. I must disagree with both of these solutions. Balancing around Isk doesn't work when Isk hasn't value; to many veterans, Isk has very little meaning. As for differing rotation speeds, balance-minded heavies like Fox Gaden have explained that this would make target tracking in CQC impossible. A few have suggested replacing (or removing) sentinel explosive resistance. Incrementally tuning the HMG may work as well. sorry man but i disagree with you also a heavy sentinel should not be able to track everything in CQC it should have the fire power in straight line and small variable but not a 360 degree tracking IMO as it is now about the vets with isk that is only a partial truth as every generalization. not every sentinel/heavy is a vet and not every vet runs a heavy and not every vet is a millionaire etc to conclude bringing those two things at one time while leaving the rest of variables intact would fix the feeling of OPness of sentinel HMG plus rep logi combo and other variables like LAV plus heavy inside etc. IMO ofc Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3023	Posted - 2015.01.09 16:41:00 - [22] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Bethhy wrote: Nerfing a class because they are too good at their role on the battlefield is about as stupid as this forum gets. This sounds like something Spkr might say. Are there not degrees of good? Picture a gauge which begins with barely good enough and ends with way too good. Might there be a happy medium along that continuum? No this is assbackwards thinking and part of the "DUST sickness" where people think everything needs to be nerfed to fix something. There is nothing wrong with a class being extremely good at their role. That is the purpose of their existence... Buffing a counter for the role and playstyle? sure.... Nerfing it so everything can counter it? No. It makes no sense. And will never. "But CCP, Heavies are to strong in CQC Versus my Assault suit with a rifle!!!" you say? Well sh!t CCP Did a good job then? This is how it is supposed to work.... It's like the people on these forums complaining that a Logi and Heavy team is strong....... Seriously when two people are working together at anything in DUST... It is strong... Could be tag teaming minja Nova knifing, and it is strong... T^eam work is OP. There is nothing wrong with heavies and the way they operate... They have so many weaknesses it is sad. Remove Aim assist from HMG's would be the only thing worth changing... The last thing a HMG or a shotgun needs... That big generalized circle isn't enough?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1606	Posted - 2015.01.09 17:08:00 - [23] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Bethhy wrote: Nerfing a class because they are too good at their role on the battlefield is about as stupid as this forum gets. This sounds like something Spkr might say. Are there not degrees of good? Picture a gauge which begins with barely good enough and ends with way too good. Might there be a happy medium along that continuum? There is nothing wrong with a class being extremely good at their role. That is the purpose of their existence... Was recon not the role of the EWAR Scout? And were they not deemed to be too good at it? I don't understand how the rule can apply in one case and not the next. In my opinion, there can be such a thing as "too good" ... even within the bounds of one's role.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3025	Posted - 2015.01.09 17:37:00 - [24] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Bethhy wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Bethhy wrote: Nerfing a class because they are too good at their role on the battlefield is about as stupid as this forum gets. This sounds like something Spkr might say. Are there not degrees of good? Picture a gauge which begins with barely good enough and ends with way too good. Might there be a happy medium along that continuum? There is nothing wrong with a class being extremely good at their role. That is the purpose of their existence... Was recon not the role of the EWAR Scout? And were they not deemed to be too good at it? I don't understand how the rule can apply in one case and not the next. In my opinion, there can be such a thing as "too good" ... even within the bounds of one's role. Scanning has a long history in DUST.... Best to know it before you use it as an example. When only one class can perform this function... There is a problem... Nerfing the Scout ontop of Nerfing their Scanning has created your Heavy problem you are complaining about now. CCP Double and triple nerfs while buffing a counter playstyle to appease all the whiners that surface between patches. Like is about to happen to Heavies/ Scouts and scanning is a relative new thing in DUST that dates back to the last patch DUST got before last Fanfest. We gave them that as their primary role within the last year... Out of 3 years of Arbitors(The Original "Scout" suits name) Being around in DUST... they have spent less then a year with it. If Heavies where the only thing good at CQC.... Then sure... They have no counter... But a Nova Knifer can still walk up and one shot them... a shotgunner in 2 and some change. Scouts had no one that couple play with them in scanning... So they changed it and let Assaults and Logi's play a little more. Heavies have everyone that can play with them CQC, always have.... A Good Assault doesn't run from a heavy... They Aim for their extremely fat head and go at them... Everyone can play and compete with a heavy at it's own game... The Heavy is just the best at it's small little Niche. 0-30/40m.... Anything other circumstance? and they might aswell be in a MLT suit in a PC.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix 645	Posted - 2015.01.09 17:56:00 - [25] - Quote Cos heavies are gonna be sitting at range with hmg in a PC right, bethy? It essentially boils down to fact, that aside from a scout with knives or a shotty, if you want to cap an enclosed point you might as well use a heavy. Heavy spam is one of the most annoying things in this game. You either have to limit the amount of heavies allowed in a match or make them less effective. When a PC team is 50% heavy, doesn't that make you think that maybe something needs to be done about it? If other things cannot perform anywhere near as well as a heavy (not as effective or it defeats the point of a heavy) in cqc it makes its counter another a heavy, which in itself is wrong. Heavies need to be tweaked. Not nerfed into uselessness, just made SLIGHTLY less effective. Either change DPS output or ehp.
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 4294	Posted - 2015.01.09 18:08:00 - [26] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: There are so many reasons to nerf heavies I wasnt aware Rattati played heavy. Also he said the same about assault dropships and look at what cr*p they've become. The only difference is now they can't be spammed.. Any competent pilot will still do good, just like tanks have had their good times but more bad than good.. Scouts got nerfed and they were the best counter to heavies so GG by nerfing scouts you also got heavies nerfed. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2700	Posted - 2015.01.09 18:15:00 - [27] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: So where did the idea of nerfing heavies come from? They went unchanged for half a year, except for the recent heat buildup Nerf, but i guess wasn't enough? Its like the saying,"you give them an inch theyll take the mile." So my question is how far do you want to take it, on the level of the ads Nerf; unusable except for top players, or on the level of the recent scr Nerf? I say no Nerf should be given, because lets be honest, get some skill. I take heavies all day in my logi, scout, commando, any suit. It's called tactics, different suits come with different tactics. If I'm in a scout I'm going to flank, in an assault god mode strafe him, in a logi get cover and let my heavy take him. Strafe penalty on plates was already increased quite a bit. A slug can crawl faster than my Amarr sentinel with 4 plates can move left and right. Why more nerfs? Why does everything have to get nerfed? Why can't you people just HTFU and either avoid them, or figure out a better way to kill them? Standing still and holding down the trigger will only get you shred to bits. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5687	Posted - 2015.01.09 18:39:00 - [28] - Quote I don't see heavies as a problem at all. Go watch saxonamish's video with the Quafe Min Assault. He shreds heavies with a STD CR in a BPO suit from 5-10 meters multiple times. I kill heavies one on one all the time and I'm average at best. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 711	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:05:00 - [29] - Quote Are we talking domination now . They don't dominate skirm... Maybee a logie/fatty combo can hold down one point but not them al. Also aren't the point of the logie/fatty combo to hold down a point. Regards War never changes
Stryker Syx Vector D3ATH CARD RUST415 56	Posted - 2015.01.09 21:04:00 - [30] - Quote One side: "this kills me it's too good at the one thing it does, Nerf it." Other side: "why not find a way to deal with it instead of trying to make it nonexistent." Oh and the argument about milkman and hav's should only be used by 70 mil+ sp beta vets. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.