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Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2677	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:03:00 - [61] - Quote Djinn SouI wrote: Quasar Storm wrote: Djinn SouI wrote: All of these responses and I still have not received any answers to my questions... I bolded them for a reason. I am giving you guys a chance to state your case. If this is the best all of you can do then it only reinforces my belief that they should be removed. I would answer seriously, If I could take you seriously. Cause you're not Soul. It doesnt matter who I am. CCP will probably read this and see that not one single person can provide one counter arguement. My questions are very simple and I answered them for every other role. You do realize that nobody is giving you a answer because nobody is taking you serious, right? Damn, if Ripper says can't take you serious, you have issues. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2677	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:08:00 - [62] - Quote Djinn SouI wrote: True Adamance wrote: Sure tanks don't currently have a role. This doesn't mean they shouldn't have one. That is also why I asked what tankers believe their role in the battlefield should be. With 0 suggestions or answers to this question... It just makes HAV's pointless. So what should be the point? The problem is, I've already answered this question, several times over, and you claim that I haven't, or that anyone here hasn't, several times. You sound like a creationist, and it tickles me. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2677	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:10:00 - [63] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Okay, but adding proto vehicles equals one of two things: either AV balance remains the same and the vehicles receive an irrelevant increase in statistics making the proto not worth having, or proto AV is rebalanced to the dramatically more durable vehicles (I mean, proto infantry can have fully twice as much HP as STD) and STD vehicles get royally screwed. I suppose the answer is to do the latter, but make the PRO vehicles cost millions upon millions, and make proto AV cost a proportionate amount. Or **** tiers tiercide. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16447	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:24:00 - [64] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Okay, but adding proto vehicles equals one of two things: either AV balance remains the same and the vehicles receive an irrelevant increase in statistics making the proto not worth having, or proto AV is rebalanced to the dramatically more durable vehicles (I mean, proto infantry can have fully twice as much HP as STD) and STD vehicles get royally screwed. I suppose the answer is to do the latter, but make the PRO vehicles cost millions upon millions, and make proto AV cost a proportionate amount. Or **** tiers tiercide. Look where tiericide landed us Godin......... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2963	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:36:00 - [65] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Djinn SouI wrote: True Adamance wrote: Sure tanks don't currently have a role. This doesn't mean they shouldn't have one. That is also why I asked what tankers believe their role in the battlefield should be. With 0 suggestions or answers to this question... It just makes HAV's pointless. So what should be the point? The problem is, I've already answered this question, several times over, and you claim that I haven't, or that anyone here hasn't, several times. You sound like a creationist, and it tickles me. You have? I have yet to see anyone explain what Tanks are even for in DUST.... Or how they even fit in.. Other then rolling platforms of death and destruction... What has been their purpose throughout the history of DUST? Was their purpose always to be a force multiplier.. Giving a Mercenary 2x more power then if they where in a dropsuit? Then are tanks End game? Tanks in general have no role or purpose... There is nothing they are absolutely needed for.... And if we nerf AV... Is the only purpose to have a tank to counter another tank? Tanks and their role in DUST 514 has never been actually discussed with tankers... Because you ask them this question and they do two things... : Either Draw a blank and try and change the subject... Or : Explain that they should be rolling platforms of death and destruction. I Have yet to see on these forums a well thought out reason for WHY tanks are in DUST and what their role even is. When CCP CMDR Wang was still working for CCP Shanghai and was responsible for tanks.. His reasoning was there where end game platforms... Something you skill into AFTER you have worked out a basic infantry fitting. Tanks in the Original Concept in DUST... VEhciles in general where supposed to be end game.. You Had to spawn into match with your Infantry gear on and go score war points that you THEN could spend to call in a tank that your purchased and fitted off the market... At the same time having Battle commanders in Warbarges that selected what percentage of vehicles could even be called in... Choosing 2 AV's 3 tanks and 1 Dropship 2 Fighters... Or a combination of those in any order they choose... And that was the limit on the battlefield... Tanks where implemented into DUST with a COMPLETELY different concept to how they would be used by Mercenaries.. 3 years have gone by and nothing about tanks makes sense to why and what purpose they have as a main playstyle in this game.. What do you think Tanks should be for in DUST? Because this is a question that should be asked MONTHS ahead of any buff or nerf talks.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2686	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:37:00 - [66] - Quote Ace Boone wrote: ADS play a key in removing high-ground presence, keeping AV busy and being pesky as ** to deal with. LAVs get people from point to point in pubs. Tanks are pretty much useless. You only use tanks to kill other tanks or to help support homepoint. They have their small uses, but their not really..useful. The blasters need to be fixed. The dispersion rate just makes it..not fun. It needs to be very effective in CQC, but the dispersion rate needs to increase with range. It's a ***** tank for Chirst's sake, but it's like a spray gun in close quarters. And remove militia tanks. If tanks are good, they should be expensive. There shouldn't be a tank less expensive than a proto suit. So how are new people supposed to get into it if a tank costs 300k ISK? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18200	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:39:00 - [67] - Quote Vehicles are a platform that brings to function and purpose to the game board that can never be found on an infantry scaled platform. Namely larger guns and means of movement. The compromise in bringing such large platforms to be able to bear such functions however is its own drawback unable to scale and traverse many things the still very capable infantry platform is able to provide. In terms of the DS it is basically flying and insertion and vertical harassment thus making the warfare in dust 514 3-D In terms of the LAV it is mobility and harassment and funnily enough stealth. You'd be amazed on how little attention is paid to an LAV and what its occupants are up to. In terms of the HAV they provide a mobile heavy weapons platform that is essentially a moving turret installation. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1227	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:39:00 - [68] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Please show me where Rattati Said ADS's are supposed to be some gun platform of the sky that is never supposed to stop moving or it will die? It doesn't make any sense... I didn't say that they weren't supposed to stop moving or they'd die, but the notion is that speed and manoeuvrability are the primary defences. What supporting reasoning do you have for them being flying tanks?! Bethhy wrote: Worse is this game concept that you are spouting where it is completely designed around Low time to kill on nearly EVERYTHING in DUST's existence... Everything has to die in less then 1-3 seconds... Which is stupid... Might aswell call this Battlefield.. You do realise that everything - everything - infantrywise dies in about 3 seconds tops, right? Even a maxed out PRO Amarr Sentinel (522.6/1344 armour) dies to a STD Scrambler Rifle in 3.25s (0.67s to kill shields/2.58s to kill armour.) Everything dies quickly, in fact only vehicles really survive for any length of time. Seriously, where do you get off on making outright and blatantly stupid assertions? Bethhy wrote: ADS's where supposed to be a for a small squad of 4 quick infiltrating... Where the Pilot can solo support his/her small squad on quick infiltration... We Actually have HAD Fighter assets built for this game for over 5 years... There are actual FIGHTERS... That are supposed to fullfill this role... Not the troop transport vehicle... Period. Again, why are you the one to make the decision about that? Rattatti has said that ADSs should perform strafing runs and an ADS does not infringe on the introduction of fighters later. But really, your issue is that you don't want ADSs to exist, for some reason, even though they are no more obnoxious than any specialist variant of anything. It [sic] means keep moving. <- that post even talks about how if you hover for long and get engaged by multiple people you should be boned. Completely counter to your idea: your idea is wrong according to Rattati, so stop peddling your wares. Bethhy wrote: -Military Troops transport Helicopters are Not giant Gun platforms that rule the sky and the ground... That Mere assumption makes my head hurt... I Don't come on here without doing a little research about what i'm talking about. The average Troop transport Helicopter people would talk about would be...... The Chinook.. Even GTA 5 has a version.. We aren't talking about a Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter "with" transport capabilities... Like your trying to play like dropships should be. Nobody is suggesting them being orbital death platforms, stop blowing things out of proportion. We already have Chinooks, that's the NDS, the Grimsnes/Myron. The Python/Incubus should be equivalent to the MH-60A, which has turrets and transport capacity. Another dropship entirely is the Hind/Apache type gunship. Let me make this clear for you, since you seem so boneheadedly ignorant of what people are actually saying: Most ADS pilots don't want to be unholy murder machines, but they want to be able to fight back and contribute using the role given to the ADS: mobile firepower and troop transport. Bethhy wrote: At no point ever... Did they have a purpose in DUST.... This is really the key: not having a purpose. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2686	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:39:00 - [69] - Quote Djinn SouI wrote: Ace Boone wrote: ADS play a key in removing high-ground presence, keeping AV busy and being pesky as ** to deal with. LAVs get people from point to point in pubs. Tanks are pretty much useless. You only use tanks to kill other tanks or to help support homepoint. They have their small uses, but their not really..useful. The blasters need to be fixed. The dispersion rate just makes it..not fun. It needs to be very effective in CQC, but the dispersion rate increases with range. It's a ***** tank for Chirst's sake, but it's like a spray gun in close quarters. And remove militia tanks. If tanks are good, they should be expensive. There shouldn't be a tank less expensive than a proto suit. I agree with this 100%. They are useless. I don't see why tankers don't want to come here and answer my questions on what they believe their role should be and if they are able to do it right now. They are too raged because I said to remove them to provide any kind of feed back. Perhaps they know what I say is true but they should also know that this is their chance to tell CCP what should be done to tanks to give them an actual role. Do you even tank? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1227	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:40:00 - [70] - Quote Bethhy wrote: -Dropships are currently used only for slaying and getting ontop of buildings.... And anything you have purposed leaves them pigeon holed in a useless function that will never contribute to DUST 514 ever in that state. Pigeon holes them? With a specialist variant? The NDS is the transport vehicle you talk of: the ADS is a specialist variant based around higher firepower and lower resilience. Why do you feel this is unreasonable? As before, no-one (no-one reasonable anyway) is asking for a flying machine of uber death. Bethhy wrote: Obviously you have never used a Dropship in any competitive game setting in DUST 514... Dropships absolutely have to fly low enough so you DON't activate you Inertia Dampener... As soon as you touch that you are dead before you can gain control of your mercenary.. Any competent Mercenary would have nearly every target dead that jumped from a dropship with it's inertia dampener... Dead before they could even take control of their character... Inertia dampener deployment out of a dropship = death more then not.. period. You have such a skewed view of this game. I didn't say anything about dropping directly into the line of fire, but frankly you have displayed no intelligence around the role of dropships: high speed drops are one of the best methods of inserting troops into areas and avoiding AV fire. Quite often that kind of insertion will result in the use of inertial dampeners. Low flying, high speed dropship insertions are not very common, but they can be effective, I'm sure that's what you're trying to say, but frankly when you're dealing with entrenched AV, flying low at high speed has the great risk of being knocked straight down and killing everyone. Bethhy wrote: You seem perfectly content with a wet paper bag for defense aslong as they buff the offensive capabilities of a Dropship.... To me? ANd anyone that look at the big overall picture of DUST..... This sounds just straight up ignorant. Dropships Need 2x to 3x the defensive capabilities to Fullfill their role as troop transport and support... They DO NOT need to kill everysuit in the game with 1-3 shots to fullfill this.... They do NOT need a faster ROF to deliver that 1-3 shots.... Quite frankly, I'm all for looking at the small turrets. I have, in fact, made several threads about it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184362&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177189&find=unread Small turrets do need to be reworked - like many aspects of vehicles. But as far as dropships needing more health? Are you kidding me? 2x-3x the defensive capabilities puts them at around 1.5x-2x more resilient than HAVs - are you high?! Bethhy wrote: At the same time allowing the dropship or dropship gunners and the AV mercenary to have a meaningful exchange... Not 1-3 shots either way and the other is dead... What kind of meaningful exchange happens when one side is virtually invincible because you gave them twice as many HP?! That would turn into one side fires 4-6 times and the other has to fire 30-40! Do you not even comprehend the sheer idiocy of your own argument? How broken 2-3x more HP would be? Bethhy wrote: The Fact that you claim dropships entire problem is a low rate of fire and bad map design just shows you completely oblivious you are to the game as a whole and ignorant to the original concepts of how Dropships where to even contribute to the game of DUST 514. Tell me more about how you're so amazing and everyone should listen to you only . Frankly, you are stating things as if they are absolutes (such as the roles of certain things) when they are simply your opinions: opinions that conflict with the template that Rattati has decided he wants to go for. Bad map design is incredibly important: how is a dropship useful on a tiny map with little verticality? Or where they have no reasonable things to use as covers (ie, most maps)? Why do most people call in a LAV to get where they're going, unless it's a high place? Because dropships are pretty pointless considering the maps are so small and that, aside from otherwise inaccessible rooftops, there is little to no gain to be had from using one over a LAV. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2686	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:55:00 - [71] - Quote Djinn SouI wrote: In a pc fight all vehicles ever do is drive around the map taking out all the turrets raking up points and avoiding the battle up to mid-end game and even then they are of not much help. They just farm wp safely in professional matches for an ob... About the only way to farm WP is to destroy installations. And what's a "professional match?" Do you mean planetary conquest, which is what the game should be balanced around? In pubs? What is there role? Seriously? They have never been balanced at all... They are either OP or UP. No proto versions yet we have proto weapons. How the hell are we supposed to achieve true balance like that? The game shouldn't be balanced around pubs. CCP listening to the whining infantry wanting the game balanced around ambush is why we're in this position. Heavy suits = tanks. Primarily defensive guard units. Heavies need a vehicle to cross open terrain. A tank with two small turrets attached gets people where they need to go in safety. Heavies are good for defending a position that a tank can't look at, ie. in buildings. Your argument isn't a good one. Logi = Support players. They can range from medics to uplinkers to scanners ect. Used to have logi dropships, which had a built-in mCRU. Provided rapid transportation and spawns across the whole battlefield. Easiest way to drop players off on a high point without having to jump out and drop links. What happens if an ADS is there and surprises you? If the pilot is lucky enough to get a body shot, you're dead and you lost your ship, as well as that crucial high point spawn. Assaults = your killers. Tanks are for that on open ground, along with forcing non-AV behind cover to allow your infantry to flank. You know, flanking, when you go around a position to attack the enemy from the side or behind. Scouts = your speed kings. They can easily and quickly get from point to point to both attack or defend. They also favor a stealth style of gameplay. Used to have scout LAVs, but they were useless. This role can be fulfilled by a LAV, and the driver isn't vulnerable to a sniper paying attention to cloaks, if the driver is in a heavy suit. Commandos = good for av as you can hold another primary weapon. Also good for snipers to have another primary weapon. But also good for a variety of roles. Those who know how to play them to their potential are usually quite skilled. More HP than a commando, as well as able to get damage out faster, which makes a big difference. At least this is how I see it but tanks?? Of course it's how you see tanks, because you don't tank. gets hit by one swarm launcher, goes to run and hide wastes time repping and waiting for modules to recover. That's because swarms ignore obstacles and hills while traveling to your position with the wrath of god behind them. Why not keep defending? Because a few thousand damage. "Because I dont wanna lose millions of isk QQ. So I am going to hide for half the game because I am risking so much and not really help out at all. I can't do much of anything to help out at the objectives unless I am OP and can destroy eveyrthing in my sights "Millions of ISK QQ? Are you insane? One of my fits costs nearly half a million ISK. I lose that, I've lost ISK for 3 matches. You die 5 times, you'll lose that much, vs my one death. Idiot. Vehiclists are some of the biggest babies....But these are just my opinions. No, it's AV, because they've successfully had vehicles nerfed for 3 years, while AV was consistently buffed in that same time frame. You're wrong. I am open to your thoughts. Are you a vehiclist? what is your role on the battlefield? What do you believe your role should be? Can you succesfully fill your role? How do you help the gameplay of an actual match? this is your one chance to prove me wrong. I am listening... I doubt you're open to listening to us, because you already have a pre-formed opinion, and a terrible opinion at that. You're not a pilot. Kindly find another game to ruin. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:02:00 - [72] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Djinn SouI wrote: Seriously.. [/b] I hate vehicles because they ruin my high kill games, scrubs always pull out vehicles when they're getting stomped. Awwwwwwwwwwwww I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:03:00 - [73] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Zindorak wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP wrote: Interesting my good sir! Very interesting indeed! Lol. Swarms are pretty good atm so that renders ADS's or Tanks useless Have you seen what a properly fit Gunnlogi does to swarms? Answer: Eats them for breakfast and then has the swarmer as dessert. Properly fit Gunnlogi? You mean the swarms that halt the regen with 2 hardeners on? lol Stop using MLT and expect it to make a tank explode in one volley. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:08:00 - [74] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: hell give it the same stats as the caldari Forge guns but just the damage profile/proficiency of Plasma weapons (+10% shields -10% armour, +3% per level shield damage) Wait, so you want a total of 25% against shield? Bugger off. Find another game to ruin. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16448	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:09:00 - [75] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Zindorak wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP wrote: Interesting my good sir! Very interesting indeed! Lol. Swarms are pretty good atm so that renders ADS's or Tanks useless Have you seen what a properly fit Gunnlogi does to swarms? Answer: Eats them for breakfast and then has the swarmer as dessert. Properly fit Gunnlogi? You mean the swarms that halt the regen with 2 hardeners on? lol Stop using MLT and expect it to make a tank explode in one volley. Except the Gunnlogi can eat those swarms for breakfast even with one hardener and regen through a portion of that damage at range or ideally if you are using cover properly whenever it wishes. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1916	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:15:00 - [76] - Quote salutes The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:23:00 - [77] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Except the Gunnlogi can eat those swarms for breakfast even with one hardener and regen through a portion of that damage at range or ideally if you are using cover properly whenever it wishes. No, that's incorrect. Swarms stop my regen, no matter. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16449	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:41:00 - [78] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Except the Gunnlogi can eat those swarms for breakfast even with one hardener and regen through a portion of that damage at range or ideally if you are using cover properly whenever it wishes. No, that's incorrect. Swarms stop my regen, no matter. I never said they didn't only that 4 second delay is so manageable that you barely need pay it any heed. By the time you have left the combat zone you are already in the process of charging. By the time you reach cover (assuming you are not in it and why you wouldn't be I don't know) you are recharging or have recharged. Hell sometimes in between Swarm Volleys you might even get a pulse or two off..... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1232	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:43:00 - [79] - Quote From Stuff514: minDamageToCauseShieldRechargePause102.0 STD/MLT Swarm: 260 base; 0.8 profile = 208 damage per missile; 0.6 hardener = 124.8: breaks regen threshold. ADV Swarm : 286 base: 0.8 profile = 228.8 damage per missile; 0.6 hardener = 137.28: breaks regen threshold. PRO Swarm: 312 base: 0.8 profile = 249.6 damage per missile; 0.6 hardener = 149.76: breaks regen threshold. Single Hardeners do not stop any level of swarms from breaking shield regeneration. Two hardeners: STD: 124.8 * 0.656 = 81.87: regen not broken. ADV: 137.28 * 0.656 = 90.06: regen not broken. PRO: 149.76 * 0.656 = 98.24: regen not broken. Two hardeners stop any level of Swarm. 1 ADV/PRO Damage Mod or 2+ levels of MinCom will prevent recharge with PRO Swarms, can't be bothered to do all the maths on every level Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2963	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:48:00 - [80] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: . https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2361400#post2361400 This is what your basing your entire argument on gameplay for a dropship.... And it is kinda misunderstood.. We have had dropships for years in this game... And they have acted exactly the same... Either with more offense or less defense. a tweak here and there with numbers... For years. We can tweak this all you want, it will change absolutely nothing with dropships or even the need for it to be on the battlefield other then being a slayer... Which is all your defending... The right to be a more effective slayer, No matter how you try and explain that you're not on several occasions... This is in essence where the heart of every response comes from you... And you find anyway to justify this. Then defend it. Throw that out of the window.... Dropships need to be fixed... Same as tanks... There is a Crisis of existence.... Why do they even exist... What are they even for... And doing exactly the same tweaks we have done for nearly 3 years is NOT the answer... Dropships need to be changed to what they even are and how they work... If a Dropship had 2x the Survivability.... And it took 1-2 extra Infantry or other vehicles/turrets To throw some fire on it before it is forced to retreat or die.... Does that sound like this GIANT deal your making it out to be? Specially if the Offensive capabilities aren't 1-3 shotting every suit in the game? Yes TTK is low right now in DUST... But also hitting those theoretical numbers with all shots landing accurately is a MUCH different scenario... Where Dropships consistently land their shots with ease... As they have the best vantage point that could be asked for in a majority of maps. Albeit terrible game mechanics to support it. Having High burst damage and small clip size on dropship weapons is a problem... It will always create a balance problem... Currently there are Infantry all over DUST 514 that love to be Infantry AV Specialists... They absolutely love it... It is their favorite playstyle... But there is not enough Vehicles and things to shoot to justify spawning as this in majority. Same as PC.... Vehicles in general just aren't a threat to holding and taking objectives Enough, To justify a Mercenary dedicated to fighting them.... Other then infiltrating and defending the only Strong stagnant safe spawn spot you can create.. in DUST...... Not a Dropship played by a Human.... But... Uplinks ontop of a roof... Uplinks on a roof shouldn't exist... There should always be Dropships in play as Mobile spawn platforms that facilitate this function 100x better, that removes and takes out roof uplink placements.. ADS have been around... And have had many developers inputs... Nothing Rattati ever said claimed a role on anything.. Just justified the reason why a Dropship shouldn't be able to sit ontop of everyone murdering with impunity until a forge gunner shows up. Which everyone agree's with... These are my opinions on the Dropship: Dropships should get large War-point rewards for transporting Troops from A->B.... It should be the main area the UI selects for a spawn point in maps.. When it is above an Objective defending it's squad mates and providing a safe spawn area for team mates... The opposing side should look to remove the dropship and safe spawn location first before assaulting the objective... There should be Mercenaries who are AV Infantry specialists.. Who run AV as their primary function.. And an entire gameplay shaped around Vehicle VS AV and a balanced exchange... It should be able to defend it's self but at the same time have it's gunners shot out if they are exposed to long... ADS's should be less defense but with the addition of a pilot gunner that can operate without being shot out or exposed to small arms fire... Between Tanks, Dropships, LAV's and Turret installations and gameplay around full time Infantry AV Specialists..... The entire system has to get reworked... And roles and actual Purpose to them put forward on the battlefield from that. Tweaks here and there will do nothing for the dropship... It has to get defined into a role and purpose. And being a competitive slayer that is in the air is not what a dropship was ever designed to do by CCP...

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:52:00 - [81] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Except the Gunnlogi can eat those swarms for breakfast even with one hardener and regen through a portion of that damage at range or ideally if you are using cover properly whenever it wishes. No, that's incorrect. Swarms stop my regen, no matter. I never said they didn't only that 4 second delay is so manageable that you barely need pay it any heed. By the time you have left the combat zone you are already in the process of charging. By the time you reach cover (assuming you are not in it and why you wouldn't be I don't know) you are recharging or have recharged. Hell sometimes in between Swarm Volleys you might even get a pulse or two off..... By the time I've left the combat zone, they're almost ready to fire a 4th volley at me. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16449	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:52:00 - [82] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Except the Gunnlogi can eat those swarms for breakfast even with one hardener and regen through a portion of that damage at range or ideally if you are using cover properly whenever it wishes. No, that's incorrect. Swarms stop my regen, no matter. I never said they didn't only that 4 second delay is so manageable that you barely need pay it any heed. By the time you have left the combat zone you are already in the process of charging. By the time you reach cover (assuming you are not in it and why you wouldn't be I don't know) you are recharging or have recharged. Hell sometimes in between Swarm Volleys you might even get a pulse or two off..... By the time I've left the combat zone, they're almost ready to fire a 4th volley at me. And you are typically well on your way back to full HP. That's not how a tank should function. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:58:00 - [83] - Quote Bethhy wrote: blah It's his argument because it's Rattati's vision for it. He's tried justifying it to you several times, but you just won't accept it because you have your own biased view of it. Just stop, it makes you look bad. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:59:00 - [84] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: Except the Gunnlogi can eat those swarms for breakfast even with one hardener and regen through a portion of that damage at range or ideally if you are using cover properly whenever it wishes. No, that's incorrect. Swarms stop my regen, no matter. I never said they didn't only that 4 second delay is so manageable that you barely need pay it any heed. By the time you have left the combat zone you are already in the process of charging. By the time you reach cover (assuming you are not in it and why you wouldn't be I don't know) you are recharging or have recharged. Hell sometimes in between Swarm Volleys you might even get a pulse or two off..... By the time I've left the combat zone, they're almost ready to fire a 4th volley at me. And you are typically well on your way back to full HP. That's not how a tank should function. What? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2963	Posted - 2015.01.06 23:12:00 - [85] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Bethhy wrote: blah It's his argument because it's Rattati's vision for it. He's tried justifying it to you several times, but you just won't accept it because you have your own biased view of it. Just stop, it makes you look bad. Yah im wasting my freaking time I might aswell go play Battlefield 4 with apparently a "Vision".... That is around some small numbers tweak that has already happened and has been happening for years Your lost in the small details Spkr... Even for your tanks... Counting shots vs an AV.. I Still don't even know what you think tanks are for.... What are they for in PC?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2687	Posted - 2015.01.06 23:16:00 - [86] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Bethhy wrote: blah It's his argument because it's Rattati's vision for it. He's tried justifying it to you several times, but you just won't accept it because you have your own biased view of it. Just stop, it makes you look bad. Yah im wasting my freaking time I might aswell go play Battlefield 4 with apparently a "Vision".... That is around some small numbers tweak that has already happened and has been happening for years Your lost in the small details Spkr... Even for your tanks... Counting shots vs an AV.. I Still don't even know what you think tanks are for.... What are they for in PC? lolwut Battlefield 4 =/= Dust 514 I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1233	Posted - 2015.01.06 23:29:00 - [87] - Quote Bethhy wrote: This is what your basing your entire argument on gameplay for a dropship Don't think that you understand me, and you clearly have little grasp on reality. I've flown since dropships came out, and I've been flying ADS since they came out and as a dedicated ADS pilot for well over a year and a half. Can you make that claim? Do you understand what flying requires? Do you know the best ways to react to coming under fire, how to manoeuvre to best avoid Forge Guns, how to drop altitude to break swarm locks? You think you're superior because you've been playing a long time? So have I, I joined in Beta on the back of a Merc Pack, I played on the weekends when that was all we were allowed. You've done everything? Great! But that means you're not a specialist, and you don't understand the roles like a specialist does. Bethhy wrote: We can tweak this all you want, it will change absolutely nothing with dropships or even the need for it to be on the battlefield other then being a slayer. Which is all your defending. The right to be a more effective slayer, No matter how you try and explain that you're not on several occasions. Let me ask you a question: what is not based around slaying in this game? Assaults are all about going in and killing to take it. Sentinels are all about sitting somewhere, killing to defend the point. Commandos are all about killing. Scouts have less focus on killing, but are still focused on finding enemies...so that they can be neutralised: either by killing or by circumventing. Logistics are about the denial of killing and supporting those who do the killing. What role does not involve killing? What purpose can something play that does not involve getting into the thick of things and killing? A LAV? - then what's the turret for? A HAV? - then why have bigger and more powerful guns? A Dropship? - then why transport people to go kill? Absolutely everything in this game revolves around killing. Some have different methods of killing, and some circumvent killing (like MinScouts hacking) so that pressure is eased elsewhere making the overall objectives easier to obtain. As much as you say you want to make dropships have a purpose, removing the ability to kill is not the way to do it - doing so is only going to render them short-term taxis. Answer another question then: why have variants? All variants are differences based on a similar base: Assault Scrambler Rifles are still anti-shield weapons, but they use full auto mechanics and a low damage per shot/better damage over time principle. The Assault Dropship, which you are so diametrically opposed to, is a variant: it has higher firepower and lower defences. Bethhy wrote: Where Dropships consistently land their shots with ease. You really show yourself as an incompetent when you make ridiculous claims. I fly with Pvt Numnutz, usually as a gunner but sometimes flying for him, and solo, and we do well, because we're both ADS pilots and have been for over a year each. We've also flown together for nearly as long and so we communicate and understand each other very well. Even with that coordination, we still struggle to fight off a solo AV player, because what you said above is simply not true. A good dropship pilot, who's been around and flown for a long time will do a lot of damage and will have a good damn aim, but saying that hitting consistently is easy? Go away, I think your bridge is getting cold without you under it. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1233	Posted - 2015.01.06 23:29:00 - [88] - Quote Bethhy wrote: (1) Dropships should get large War-point rewards for transporting Troops from A->B.... It should be the main area the UI selects for a spawn point in maps.. When it is above an Objective defending it's squad mates and providing a safe spawn area for team mates... The opposing side should look to remove the dropship and safe spawn location first before assaulting the objective... (2) There should be Mercenaries who are AV Infantry specialists.. Who run AV as their primary function.. And an entire gameplay shaped around Vehicle VS AV and a balanced exchange... (3) It should be able to defend it's self but at the same time have it's gunners shot out if they are exposed to long... (4) ADS's should be less defense but with the addition of a pilot gunner that can operate without being shot out or exposed to small arms fire... (5) Between Tanks, Dropships, LAV's and Turret installations and gameplay around full time Infantry AV Specialists. The entire system has to get reworked... And roles and actual Purpose to them put forward on the battlefield from that. (6) Tweaks here and there will do nothing for the dropship... It has to get defined into a role and purpose. And being a competitive slayer that is in the air is not what a dropship was ever designed to do by CCP. (1) That is an mCRU. As far as equipping an mCRU is concerned, I don't necessarily disagree, but unless there are better communication channels and uplinks are far less useful/prevalent, then mCRUs will remain as ill-forgotten as ever. People don't spawn on mCRUs for several reasons: 1, they don't know where they'll end up when they finally spawn; 2, they can get an uplink that's either faster, better positioned or both; 3, they simply can't because of bugs. But I definitely agree that transporting mercs should be much more rewarded. (2) Um...yeah. That is pretty much exactly what balance means. Currently, AV can either kill or drive off a DS in relatively short order. Even if they fail to kill them, they can reap a good 150 WP from them just for firing three volleys of swarms. AV is handsomely rewarded; piloting is not. Not to mention the incredible differences in ISK payouts/costs. Not everyone is a PC Farmer/Father like you, we don't all have bucketloads of ISK to spare on 577 Proto suits a day, or 100 ADSs/HAVs. I currently have about 30mil, and that's because I've been running mostly infantry because any AV on the field pretty much shuts me down entirely. (3) That is entirely the case right now. Except with the defending itself part. Actually identifying and killing AV is difficult, even as a gunner - unlike said AV, you need to account for your pilot's movements, current momentum and the fact that unlike infantry you can't aim with the motion of your body. As an ADS pilot, you need to account for most of that, plus actually flying and paying attention to everything around you: where is that AV coming from; are there any vehicles nearby; check up, in case there's a ramship randomly farting about just because. (4) Again...exactly what we have at the moment. (5) Well, I guess that depends on what you mean by an entire rework. Maps are small, no matter how much you try to deflect that as an issue, it really is. I can come and pick someone up from one side and take them to another, or they could have called in a LAV and gotten there already by the time we lift off. Just changing WP rewards isn't a rework, it's just as much of a tweak as anything else. (6) As I said, everything is about killing, no matter how you look at it. There's a reason not a single thing in the game has no guns, except for Ramship Grimsnes' and taxis, and the latter is about getting someone to a better position so they can kill better. Everything is about killing. ADS is about killing better than an NDS. Why do you think I'm trying to get a murder beast of unholy power? What I'm asking for is to be able to respond to threats as equally as anyone else is able, and to perform my role: performing fast attacks in prelude to deploying small teams of mercenaries. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 272	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:44:00 - [89] - Quote I like the WP cost for vehicles. It doesnt have to be much, but it would justify the buffing of vehicles as they would be more 'valuable'. LAVs and DSs would keep their 'free' cost as some people need the help traversing the field. ADSs and Tanks would cost WP so that it is clear that you are and infantryman first, then a pilot. Depending on the WP cost we could have the ISK cost of ADSs and Tanks go down Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1919	Posted - 2015.01.07 01:06:00 - [90] - Quote This is what needs to be done. The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)



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