DUST Search - Why all vehicles should be removed..

Kallas Hallytyr wrote:

My role is to be a WP pinata for any Swarmer to pull out any level of Swarmer.

I don't help the gameplay of the match beyond removing uplinks/killing unaware/unequipped infantry, because my teeth were pulled when my ROF bonus was: my role is supposed to be area bombardment via strafing runs followed by troop deployment/extraction, but it is not possible due to having turrets incapable of supporting that role.

No, I cannot successfully fulfil my role, because I don't have the tools to do so. Also because whenever anyone considers buffing vehicles in any way, shape or form, every scrub AVer comes out of the woodwork to defend AV/call for a vehicle nerf/call for an AV buff to compensate.

Frankly, vehicles need to go back to the drawing board: 1.7 was the beginning of a whole vehicle overhaul that was entirely ignored after the first, massive change. We got some balance passes to make hardeners/reps less ridiculously OP, but that doesn't mean that the vehicles we have currently are worth a damn, because they were abandoned before the rebalancing could be completed.


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Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2943	Posted - 2015.01.06 08:57:00 - [1] - Quote Soul \o/
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2945	Posted - 2015.01.06 09:09:00 - [2] - Quote Turret Structures getting a health buff was a start... It lets tankers have a place of contention.. And some time and an actual need if a turret is manned as it can wreck an entire area... The problem? Turrets are put in some of the worst stupidest spots that could of been thought of..... It's like who put them there never really saw the game in action... If there was only a Few Static Turret Infrastructures on the map, but put in very very effective general high traffic locations... Then these turrets had relative decent A.I that tracked Vehicles primarily but otherwise infantry too..... Then infantry would be forced to use tankers or sacrifice significant Infantry to AV aspirations... Turrets should be check points in maps... For both Infantry and Vehicles... They should be points of contention just like a CRU or supply depot... Then have Turret Infrastructures Be able to be called in by players for a set amount of war points.... Allow Turret installations to have fittings and be purchasable on the market... This would cause a need in tactics for Tankers in general to properly push a majority of objectives.... Or points of interest... Also would allow them to have a cost reduction depending on how the performance is balanced. Give us Racial Large Weapons on Turrets... Amarr Giant Lasers, Minmatar Artillery... etc.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2958	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:35:00 - [3] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Djinn SouI wrote: I am open to your thoughts. Are you a vehiclist? what is your role on the battlefield? What do you believe your role should be? Can you succesfully fill your role? How do you help the gameplay of an actual match? this is your one chance to prove me wrong. I am listening... What exactly puzzles you about shooting people and vehicles with other vehicles being the prefered way of some to play? What about this confuses you litlle one? Scouts are fast, dropship is faster and carries more people. Heavies guard points, tanks guard points better, hell shut down entire sections of the map depending on the tanker. Sure you could waste 9 or 10 forge rounds at one installtion, a tank can take it down two missile clips. Sure, next PC you do, explicitly request no vehicles. See how far that gets ya. Obviously you have no idea who you are talking too.. This is one of the fathers of PC strategy.... Most of what is ran and used for tactics today in PC... This guy directly had part in making it a thing in this game...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2958	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:43:00 - [4] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: My role is to be a WP pinata for any Swarmer to pull out any level of Swarmer. I don't help the gameplay of the match beyond removing uplinks/killing unaware/unequipped infantry, because my teeth were pulled when my ROF bonus was: my role is supposed to be area bombardment via strafing runs followed by troop deployment/extraction, but it is not possible due to having turrets incapable of supporting that role. No, I cannot successfully fulfil my role, because I don't have the tools to do so. Also because whenever anyone considers buffing vehicles in any way, shape or form, every scrub AVer comes out of the woodwork to defend AV/call for a vehicle nerf/call for an AV buff to compensate. Frankly, vehicles need to go back to the drawing board: 1.7 was the beginning of a whole vehicle overhaul that was entirely ignored after the first, massive change. We got some balance passes to make hardeners/reps less ridiculously OP, but that doesn't mean that the vehicles we have currently are worth a damn, because they were abandoned before the rebalancing could be completed. No. Dropships where never supposed to be Glorified "Fighters" For the air.... With a Wet paper bag for defense to balance the offensive capabilities. This was never what this vehicle was for.... EVER. Dropships are the only thing in the game that can carry full squads... Dropships where supposed to be Equivalent to Military troop transport Helicopters. Dropships where supposed to be troop transport first.... Turrets where put on Dropships so that they could Provide cover and fire support for their squad... OR spawning in mercenaries that are then deploying out of the dropship. Dropships where supposed to be able to fly low(So the doors open) and Mercenaries could jump out without the need for Inertia Dampener.. Turrets on the dropship where meant to have Meaningful firefight exchanges with enemy's... Not kill every suit in the game in 1-3 shots... But sit there where the gunners and infantry have a fire exchange... that is somewhat evenly matched for damage and TTK... Just the Turrets have 3x larger clips so they can sustain fire longer... Dropship defense should be crazy high... They should be air tankers... That can sit there having meaningful exchanges with AV while supporting their squad and team before needing to retreat. ALL dropships should have built in Mobile CRU's.... This was ESSENTIAL to ending red-line matches ... Having mobile safe spawning platforms... Not blindly spawning into a CRU or an Uplink... Or even an objective to find 6 Red-berrys waiting for you... Dropships act like a Glorified Fighter with a wet paper bag for defense to balance it...... And all of DUST is robbed from a VITAL piece to balance and fast paced gameplay with purpose in DUST. Dropships should be a staple of DUST.... There should always be a few in the sky..... Instead their value and use has been squandered by CCP.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2962	Posted - 2015.01.06 20:35:00 - [5] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Snipe Dude you hurt my ******* head..... And sad how much work you make for someone to even respond to your assumptions. Worse is the grasp of the big picture... Just a very very small picture completely situated around a small set of circumstances that directly affect you. Please show me where Rattati Said ADS's are supposed to be some gun platform of the sky that is never supposed to stop moving or it will die? It doesn't make any sense... Worse is this game concept that you are spouting where it is completely designed around Low time to kill on nearly EVERYTHING in DUST's existence... Everything has to die in less then 1-3 seconds... Which is stupid... Might aswell call this Battlefield.. ADS's where supposed to be a for a small squad of 4 quick infiltrating... Where the Pilot can solo support his/her small squad on quick infiltration... We Actually have HAD Fighter assets built for this game for over 5 years... There are actual FIGHTERS... That are supposed to fullfill this role... Not the troop transport vehicle... Period. -Military Troops transport Helicopters are Not giant Gun platforms that rule the sky and the ground... That Mere assumption makes my head hurt... I DOn't come on here without doing a little research about what i'm talking about. The average Troop transport Helicopter people would talk about would be...... The Chinook.. Even GTA 5 has a version... In DUST Military Helicopters that are picking and dropping troops off at the battlefield We aren't talking about a Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter "with" transport capabilities... Like your trying to play dropships should be. Everyone has flown... I Have played DUST since CLosed beta and have seen dropships since the start... At no point ever... Did they have a purpose in DUST.... And one thing is for sure.... Dropships where never made so that YOU could do strafing runs with a troop transport vehicle.... That mere assumption is sad... -Dropships are currently used only for slaying and getting ontop of buildings.... And anything you have purposed leaves them pigeon holed in a useless function that will never contribute to DUST 514 ever in that state. Obviously you have never used a Dropship in any competitive game setting in DUST 514... Dropships absolutely have to fly low enough so you DON't activate you Inertia Dampener... As soon as you touch that you are dead before you can gain control of your mercenary.. Any competent Mercenary would have nearly every target dead that jumped from a dropship with it's inertia dampener... Dead before they could even take control of their character... Inertia dampener deployment out of a dropship = death more then not.. period. You seem to think my post is about Nerfing the Dropship.... It isn't... It is about making the dropship have an actual role on the battlefield.... You seem perfectly content with a wet paper bag for defense aslong as they buff the offensive capabilities of a Dropship.... To me? ANd anyone that look at the big overall picture of DUST..... This sounds just straight up ignorant. Dropships Need 2x to 3x the defensive capabilities to Fullfill their role as troop transport and support... They DO NOT need to kill everysuit in the game with 1-3 shots to fullfill this.... They do NOT need a faster ROF to deliver that 1-3 shots.... They NEED to have the defense to stay in the air long enopugh to provide cover and support... While not being completely Overpowered Floating gunners of death. There NEEDS to be a reason for an AV mercenary to spawn AV every death because there are Vehicles too shoot at... Or a Dropship in the air... At the same time allowing the dropship or dropship gunners and the AV mercenary to have a meaningful exchange... Not 1-3 shots either way and the other is dead... The Fact that you claim dropships entire problem is a low rate of fire and bad map design just shows you completely oblivious you are to the game as a whole and ignorant to the original concepts of how Dropships where to even contribute to the game of DUST 514.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2963	Posted - 2015.01.06 21:36:00 - [6] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Djinn SouI wrote: True Adamance wrote: Sure tanks don't currently have a role. This doesn't mean they shouldn't have one. That is also why I asked what tankers believe their role in the battlefield should be. With 0 suggestions or answers to this question... It just makes HAV's pointless. So what should be the point? The problem is, I've already answered this question, several times over, and you claim that I haven't, or that anyone here hasn't, several times. You sound like a creationist, and it tickles me. You have? I have yet to see anyone explain what Tanks are even for in DUST.... Or how they even fit in.. Other then rolling platforms of death and destruction... What has been their purpose throughout the history of DUST? Was their purpose always to be a force multiplier.. Giving a Mercenary 2x more power then if they where in a dropsuit? Then are tanks End game? Tanks in general have no role or purpose... There is nothing they are absolutely needed for.... And if we nerf AV... Is the only purpose to have a tank to counter another tank? Tanks and their role in DUST 514 has never been actually discussed with tankers... Because you ask them this question and they do two things... : Either Draw a blank and try and change the subject... Or : Explain that they should be rolling platforms of death and destruction. I Have yet to see on these forums a well thought out reason for WHY tanks are in DUST and what their role even is. When CCP CMDR Wang was still working for CCP Shanghai and was responsible for tanks.. His reasoning was there where end game platforms... Something you skill into AFTER you have worked out a basic infantry fitting. Tanks in the Original Concept in DUST... VEhciles in general where supposed to be end game.. You Had to spawn into match with your Infantry gear on and go score war points that you THEN could spend to call in a tank that your purchased and fitted off the market... At the same time having Battle commanders in Warbarges that selected what percentage of vehicles could even be called in... Choosing 2 AV's 3 tanks and 1 Dropship 2 Fighters... Or a combination of those in any order they choose... And that was the limit on the battlefield... Tanks where implemented into DUST with a COMPLETELY different concept to how they would be used by Mercenaries.. 3 years have gone by and nothing about tanks makes sense to why and what purpose they have as a main playstyle in this game.. What do you think Tanks should be for in DUST? Because this is a question that should be asked MONTHS ahead of any buff or nerf talks.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2963	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:48:00 - [7] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: . https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2361400#post2361400 This is what your basing your entire argument on gameplay for a dropship.... And it is kinda misunderstood.. We have had dropships for years in this game... And they have acted exactly the same... Either with more offense or less defense. a tweak here and there with numbers... For years. We can tweak this all you want, it will change absolutely nothing with dropships or even the need for it to be on the battlefield other then being a slayer... Which is all your defending... The right to be a more effective slayer, No matter how you try and explain that you're not on several occasions... This is in essence where the heart of every response comes from you... And you find anyway to justify this. Then defend it. Throw that out of the window.... Dropships need to be fixed... Same as tanks... There is a Crisis of existence.... Why do they even exist... What are they even for... And doing exactly the same tweaks we have done for nearly 3 years is NOT the answer... Dropships need to be changed to what they even are and how they work... If a Dropship had 2x the Survivability.... And it took 1-2 extra Infantry or other vehicles/turrets To throw some fire on it before it is forced to retreat or die.... Does that sound like this GIANT deal your making it out to be? Specially if the Offensive capabilities aren't 1-3 shotting every suit in the game? Yes TTK is low right now in DUST... But also hitting those theoretical numbers with all shots landing accurately is a MUCH different scenario... Where Dropships consistently land their shots with ease... As they have the best vantage point that could be asked for in a majority of maps. Albeit terrible game mechanics to support it. Having High burst damage and small clip size on dropship weapons is a problem... It will always create a balance problem... Currently there are Infantry all over DUST 514 that love to be Infantry AV Specialists... They absolutely love it... It is their favorite playstyle... But there is not enough Vehicles and things to shoot to justify spawning as this in majority. Same as PC.... Vehicles in general just aren't a threat to holding and taking objectives Enough, To justify a Mercenary dedicated to fighting them.... Other then infiltrating and defending the only Strong stagnant safe spawn spot you can create.. in DUST...... Not a Dropship played by a Human.... But... Uplinks ontop of a roof... Uplinks on a roof shouldn't exist... There should always be Dropships in play as Mobile spawn platforms that facilitate this function 100x better, that removes and takes out roof uplink placements.. ADS have been around... And have had many developers inputs... Nothing Rattati ever said claimed a role on anything.. Just justified the reason why a Dropship shouldn't be able to sit ontop of everyone murdering with impunity until a forge gunner shows up. Which everyone agree's with... These are my opinions on the Dropship: Dropships should get large War-point rewards for transporting Troops from A->B.... It should be the main area the UI selects for a spawn point in maps.. When it is above an Objective defending it's squad mates and providing a safe spawn area for team mates... The opposing side should look to remove the dropship and safe spawn location first before assaulting the objective... There should be Mercenaries who are AV Infantry specialists.. Who run AV as their primary function.. And an entire gameplay shaped around Vehicle VS AV and a balanced exchange... It should be able to defend it's self but at the same time have it's gunners shot out if they are exposed to long... ADS's should be less defense but with the addition of a pilot gunner that can operate without being shot out or exposed to small arms fire... Between Tanks, Dropships, LAV's and Turret installations and gameplay around full time Infantry AV Specialists..... The entire system has to get reworked... And roles and actual Purpose to them put forward on the battlefield from that. Tweaks here and there will do nothing for the dropship... It has to get defined into a role and purpose. And being a competitive slayer that is in the air is not what a dropship was ever designed to do by CCP...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2963	Posted - 2015.01.06 23:12:00 - [8] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Bethhy wrote: blah It's his argument because it's Rattati's vision for it. He's tried justifying it to you several times, but you just won't accept it because you have your own biased view of it. Just stop, it makes you look bad. Yah im wasting my freaking time I might aswell go play Battlefield 4 with apparently a "Vision".... That is around some small numbers tweak that has already happened and has been happening for years Your lost in the small details Spkr... Even for your tanks... Counting shots vs an AV.. I Still don't even know what you think tanks are for.... What are they for in PC?