DUST Search - [Ideas] Salvage-Based Economic Stimulus = More ISK, Better Gameplay

SirManBoy wrote:

Mister Goo wrote:

wrote:

SirManBoy Also, don't underestimate the potential for logis to demand tips from highly profitable slayers who appreciate their contributions and skill set, and therefore wish to enthusiastically patronize their support work.

Playing in a squad this request would be heard and you would be tipped by your squad mates. Everyone else would not respond to your requests except with an HTFU.

You need to build in a more reliable system for support characters to receive ISK. Your Idea is good and could work. It needs to be equally lucrative for all team members, including the support ones. Leaving the Logi's to beg for reimbursement is not a solution for everyone, its only for the slayer class.

If you're a logi that's routinely producing 3000 WP-4000 WP for your squad, then it's not so hard to believe that people would want to support your efforts, especially those players who are having exceptional matches and becoming richer thanks your scans, reps, etc.

But more to the point, logis would primarily benefit from the increased intensity of the matches. Intense matches produce big time WP and logis remain the masters of WP in this game. Give them match conditions that create more opportunities for them to provide support and they will thrive. Also, nothing is stopping logis from using their gun from time to time. In fact, they absolutely should! And this system is a motivator for them to do just that.

Even if this doesn't turn out to be adequate in the end for logistics players, it's still a system worth trying and it can be improved upon with further tweaks. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

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Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2397	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:16:00 - [31] - Quote +1 SMB, a worthy proposal! The most valuable part of this proposition, imo, is the indexing of payouts to in-match actions, namely kills. It's an approach we need to take for all payouts - the game should be telling players through it's reward structure that they are paid(ISK, salvage, rewards, etc) only for contributions made on the battlefield. A couple of points/observations re: selling salvage and the AUR-based market agent. I'm currently not spending RL $ on DUST. Spent a fair bit at the beginning, but until CCP gives us some kind of clear indication wtf is going on with DUST/Legion i feel it would be personally irresponsible of me to spend money on this game. Some players feel the same way, some don't, but the punchline is no AUR blue softporn sales agent lady will grace my merc quarters. Also, since i don't really need the ISK, i'm not tempted to sell to the NPC market at this time, thinking that when/if we get a real player market we can prolly do better there on many items, dog items can then be NPC sold. An alternative approach to reselling salvage is 'nanite recycling': the original lore for DUST implied that BPOs or BPCs would be a merc's only possessions and that gear would be produced by submitting those blueprints to a nanite fabrication process. Salvage would get refined down to a puddle of nanites(with inefficiency ofc) and go into the merc's 'nanite wallet' to be spent constructing gear the merc needed. There's a lot of value for DUST/New Eden in this approach and it really desreves it's own topic, but the primary advantage wrt your proposal is that it makes 'reselling' salvage loot easy: just press the 'recycle' button. Really like the way you've calibrated the salvage rate: I don't want to salvage to allow me to run proto all day long, i want it to allow me to fight hard/smart and almost break even in a losing battle. The worst thing we could do is calibrate salvage so that it allowed an average player like myself to be stupid and sloppy - the only way to do better in DUST should be to do better in DUST. Lastly, my favorite candidate for the Logi question is a contract system robust and flexible enough so that individual players could sign personal support contracts on the fly in pub matches. Logis: charge what the market will bear!! PSN: RationalSpark
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5457	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:36:00 - [32] - Quote Well.... it would make fighting Nyan San a lot more profitable... Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 724	Posted - 2014.12.21 03:16:00 - [33] - Quote Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to respond to some of you over the next couple of days.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 726	Posted - 2014.12.28 15:56:00 - [34] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: It's never going to happen. Dust 514 is a business. If they helped you in anyway to get more ISK, then their sales on AUR would drop. The main sales aside from boosters are the suits, vehicles, modules, and weapons that you can buy so you can circumvent having to spend ISK. It would be a poor business decision to increase the attainability of ISK anymore then they already have. Sure I'd be on the side that would say "give us some more", but I also understand what that would be a mainly futile argument knowing how the situation stands from the other point of view. Actually, keeping ISK low and trying to get more people to buy AUR is beneficial for you and everyone else as well. Without people spending money, the game your talking about wouldn't be able to sustain it'self and you'd have to find a new game to play c: As well as keeping ISK payouts lower to increase people spending real money, also helps promote growth and new content for the game. A more motivated player base who fights harder and produces better, more exhilarating matches is a better money maker for CCP than gear sales, especially in the long run. Monetization is important, but it can't trump decisions that clearly make Dust 514 a better game.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 726	Posted - 2014.12.28 15:59:00 - [35] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Love this idea, made a thread about it a while back (no where near as in depth though). What thing that puzzles me though, how is salvage to be distributed? Am I going to have a better chance of obtaining salvage of the people I kill? Or is it a flat table of all loot aquired split equally for each player? I'm at work right now but when I get back I would love to help keep this thread alive. My preference would be that you keep everything from the mercs you kill yourself. I believe that that is the key to motivating players to fight tooth and nail.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 726	Posted - 2014.12.28 16:13:00 - [36] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: wrote: SirManBoy Also, don't underestimate the potential for logis to demand tips from highly profitable slayers who appreciate their contributions and skill set, and therefore wish to enthusiastically patronize their support work. Playing in a squad this request would be heard and you would be tipped by your squad mates. Everyone else would not respond to your requests except with an HTFU. You need to build in a more reliable system for support characters to receive ISK. Your Idea is good and could work. It needs to be equally lucrative for all team members, including the support ones. Leaving the Logi's to beg for reimbursement is not a solution for everyone, its only for the slayer class. If you're a logi that's routinely producing 3000 WP-4000 WP for your squad, then it's not so hard to believe that people would want to support your efforts, especially those players who are having exceptional matches and becoming richer thanks your scans, reps, etc. But more to the point, logis would primarily benefit from the increased intensity of the matches. Intense matches produce big time WP and logis remain the masters of WP in this game. Give them match conditions that create more opportunities for them to provide support and they will thrive. Also, nothing is stopping logis from using their gun from time to time. In fact, they absolutely should! And this system is a motivator for them to do just that. Even if this doesn't turn out to be adequate in the end for logistics players, it's still a system worth trying and it can be improved upon with further tweaks. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 610	Posted - 2014.12.29 00:08:00 - [37] - Quote +1 to this idea, I would really like to see it implemented, along with an overhaul of with how we pay out for winning matches. As it stands, it can be profitable to lose the match so long as you play it safe and I'd like to see this change in a way that compliments salvage rewards for fighting hard. Essentially, losers shouldn't get paid much unless they were truly exceptional whilst winners should get the jackpot for fulfilling the contract they took on. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4612	Posted - 2015.02.24 05:14:00 - [38] - Quote This continues to be a necessary addition to Dust. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 691	Posted - 2015.02.24 05:53:00 - [39] - Quote I have a few questions about this. 1: Roles that provide few kills. Logi, Scouts (who are playing scout scout and not slayer scout), overwatch suppression, people that provide point defense to rarely attacked points (in skirm,) snipers that only snipe critical battlefield targets, transport LAV/Dropship drivers to name a few. I like the proposal (it has been made by many people many times in the past and CCP seems to be interested in it) -- but it seems like it leaves out a lot of roles and encourages everyone into the 'slayer' role. Of course you want the majority of your team to be slayers -- but not everyone. That discourages the selfless 'teamplay' styles some people have. Under your proposal, how would these roles be compensated ISK wise? 2: The recent increase in availability of so called 'free suits.' Now that blueprints are starting to become common, people are 'farming isk' at a greater rate would negatively impact potential salvage. Especially in the case of Apex where, if you keep what you kill, you are looking at getting basic modules at best once they code salvage to account for the blueprints. How would these factor in to ISK reimbursement. 3: ISK generation. Dust is a game of economics as much as anything. We have to ask ourselves -- should we be ABLE to afford to run xyz all the time? Is CCP not trying to keep the amount of constant proto use down due to economic cost? How would your proposal interact with that? Are not the example numbers you have given mean that one could run proto all day every day and still profit? Is that reasonable?
HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 43	Posted - 2015.02.24 07:23:00 - [40] - Quote Ohh... really, what about the logis. I spend more than you at 200,000 K a suit for proto. And basic Logis cost upwards of 70-80K a suit. I die a lot more as well, so wtf. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*

HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 43	Posted - 2015.02.24 07:25:00 - [41] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Mister Goo wrote: wrote: SirManBoy Also, don't underestimate the potential for logis to demand tips from highly profitable slayers who appreciate their contributions and skill set, and therefore wish to enthusiastically patronize their support work. Playing in a squad this request would be heard and you would be tipped by your squad mates. Everyone else would not respond to your requests except with an HTFU. You need to build in a more reliable system for support characters to receive ISK. Your Idea is good and could work. It needs to be equally lucrative for all team members, including the support ones. Leaving the Logi's to beg for reimbursement is not a solution for everyone, its only for the slayer class. If you're a logi that's routinely producing 3000 WP-4000 WP for your squad, then it's not so hard to believe that people would want to support your efforts, especially those players who are having exceptional matches and becoming richer thanks your scans, reps, etc. But more to the point, logis would primarily benefit from the increased intensity of the matches. Intense matches produce big time WP and logis remain the masters of WP in this game. Give them match conditions that create more opportunities for them to provide support and they will thrive. Also, nothing is stopping logis from using their gun from time to time. In fact, they absolutely should! And this system is a motivator for them to do just that. Even if this doesn't turn out to be adequate in the end for logistics players, it's still a system worth trying and it can be improved upon with further tweaks. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Bull, "a logi benifits from the increced action". What!!! I can already see how this is going to go. ok, your going to give killers that, then give no cooldown period for the rep tool. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4326	Posted - 2015.02.24 08:07:00 - [42] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: It's never going to happen. Dust 514 is a business. If they helped you in anyway to get more ISK, then their sales on AUR would drop. The main sales aside from boosters are the suits, vehicles, modules, and weapons that you can buy so you can circumvent having to spend ISK. It would be a poor business decision to increase the attainability of ISK anymore then they already have. Sure I'd be on the side that would say "give us some more", but I also understand what that would be a mainly futile argument knowing how the situation stands from the other point of view. Actually, keeping ISK low and trying to get more people to buy AUR is beneficial for you and everyone else as well. Without people spending money, the game your talking about wouldn't be able to sustain it'self and you'd have to find a new game to play c: As well as keeping ISK payouts lower to increase people spending real money, also helps promote growth and new content for the game. A more motivated player base who fights harder and produces better, more exhilarating matches is a better money maker for CCP than gear sales, especially in the long run. Monetization is important, but it can't trump decisions that clearly make Dust 514 a better game. This proposal of yours actually supports increased monetisation - the most efficient way (based on time put in) to increase loyalty rank is to spend truly obscene amounts of money on the game; simply playing the game is really not going to increase your rank in a hurry, and investing in an agent early on could make a huge difference to your ISK reserves, thereby promoting the purchase of AUR as well (at least as a one-off). And, of course, like you said, a motivated playerbase spends AUR on boosters :P HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Bull, "a logi benifits from the increced action". What!!! I can already see how this is going to go. ok, your going to give killers that, then give no cooldown period for the rep tool. All I can say is that you should try not dying so often. My slayer-CalLogi (so many grenades!) is expensive, but I die about three times a match (cos I'm a scrub). I get pretty respectable WP outlays thanks to nanohives and uplinks. Were I using a repair tool, not only would I not die (because, you know, not in the line of fire) I'd also be making huge amounts of WP. The cap resets when you score an assist (or a kill), from memory. Apologies for offtopic post, SMB Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'. And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.


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