| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6523
   |
Posted - 2014.12.22 06:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
I don't really like tiericide because it makes progressing less of a necessity and more as a casual option.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
|
Pseudogenesis
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1125
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 07:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:So, this is targeted for Next Expansion 1.0 right, Rattati?
Will solve 90% of the player retention problems.
I seriously doubt this is the case, but it will definitely help a lot. New player problems are mainly in skills and quality of modules, not the amount they can fit.
Stabby-stabber extraordinaire
I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
|
Kain Spero
Goonfeet
4110
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 06:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
I still see this as an elegant way to approach tieracide.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1474
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 07:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
This is interesting.
So i can get a cheap proto suit, awesome
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
|
Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2341
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 10:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
+50000, i was actually thinking the exact same thing a while back, just never liked throwing numbers around.
My frame of view as to why this SERIOUSLY will effect me:
As a Minja, you can't just pick the Std suit and do good, you might as well not have a suit, Hp notwithstanding.
Either i fit 2 damps and have 0 speed increase, or i buy a Proto suit and fit that one kincat i need.
One damp is useless, so cant go there without not going at all.
Precision fit Calscouts/minjas/whatever, you can't fit these without running a Proto suit, or a Adv in terms of Min.
Sure, you could say 'you wanna scan a scout,? Buy a proto' but that's not the premise of the game. I want to be able to super specialize my cheap suit to do one thing, and one thing only. Why should i be debarred from that, even if doing so meant fitting...fitting mods in the lows so i can fit 3 cx precisions and a Basic Combat Rifle?
For my MinAssaults as well, some "playstyles" necessitate say, a 3rd low(armor plating, shield regulator, damp) while others just absolutely need that 3rd equip(needle/nano/rep tool)
Telling a Logistics that he can only do a certain task at prototype is just unfair.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
|
Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2341
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 10:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:This is interesting.
So i can get a cheap proto suit, awesome
Sure, you can have the slots, but Godd Luck fitting 3 Complex Shield Extenders on a M-1 scout, or a Viziam on a A-1 assault.
Doing that, you'd both be wasting low slots on fitting mods and you'd be raising the ISK cost to be near that of a normally fit Adv suit.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
|
Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2341
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 10:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
@Doctor Day, Tiericide in most (usually correct) cases is, in one way or another, limiting the EXTREME power upgrades you get from moving up the tiers, for example how the original Amarr Logi only had a Sidearm at Proto, or how the Min Logi only has 4 Eq at Prototype
Sure, we can say thats the benefit of having a Proto suit, but not only are you getting that, you're also getting more PG/CPU.
In EVE universe, you pay 20x more Isk for one more slot, or for 100 HP more, or for a bonus to something different.
In DUST, you should pay that premium for ONLY the extra fitting space, and not the extra slots.
At least, thats what most of us proponenets of Tiericide want.
The other group, say, want to simply remove Std/Adv tiers, leaving us with Mlt suits, (vastly price reduced) Basic frames, and (probably price increased massively) Specialist frames.
This leaves us with practically a copy-paste of EVE's system, where you pay for a normal ship, but have to pay vastly more for a specialist ship(that 1 extra slot, or 100 Hp, or different bonus)
I hope this explained it right, and at least correct in where i tried to be correct.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
|
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
2368
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 11:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think tiericide is unlikely to happen in dust. Think about it; their profits from Dust come solely from aurum. Why would they take away one avenue to spend that aurum, by accessing better gear without meeting the skill requirement?
Do not go gentle into that good night;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
6107
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 12:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think it needs to go further but this is still better than the system we have now by far.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
6108
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 12:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I think tiericide is unlikely to happen in dust. Think about it; their profits from Dust come solely from aurum. Why would they take away one avenue to spend that aurum, by accessing better gear without meeting the skill requirement?
because this method of tiericide only affects the dropsuits. and because the fitting on each tier of dropsuit remains as the current meta, that means you aren't going to be able to fit a proto loadout on a STD dropsuit with all of the slots.
Aurum will allow you to buy suits with better fitting that can handle better modules.
Further, tiericide will not be applied to the modules and weapons to insure that fitting skills matter, and your mandatory SP sink shifts to skills that support the suits rather than absolutely MANDATING that you max out the suits themselves. You can get away with ADV fit suits. You don't absolutely NEED to spec to 5.
Removing that mandate allows more flexibility for players, and allows people to be more versatile. This won't put a cramp on people who monofocus roles and slowly creep their SP outward while maximizing role benefits.
It just makes it not MANDATORY. THe game dictating that you MUST HAVE THIS OPTION when it advertises "You don't have to do it one way" isn't great design space.
But providing an incentive to do so means people will still take suit skills to 5
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
|
|
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5918
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 13:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
I'm in full support of this idea, Spectral.
Standard dropsuits lack the slots necessary for diverse and interesting fittings. Advanced is marginally better. It's only when a player can fit a prototype dropsuit do they eventually see the capabilities of the fitting system.
What you are suggesting would correct that.
My advice to you, playa...
|
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1656
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 13:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
I like the suggestion.
Yet, it won't solve the issue of proto suits being just plain simply better, it only lowers the benefits.
But a good start.
Pro-choice!
For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners!
We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
|
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
896
|
Posted - 2014.12.31 14:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
This should have happened two years ago. |
The-Errorist
965
|
Posted - 2015.01.20 22:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:+1
This is a necessity for Dust 514 to have a healthy, balanced atmosphere.
Spectral Clone wrote:...
Will solve 90% of the player retention problems.
Definitely not 90, but certainly a sizable percentage.
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:I like the suggestion.
Yet, it won't solve the issue of proto suits being just plain simply better, it only lowers the benefits.
But a good start.
I personally don't see a problem with proto suits being plain better, but I do with them being so much better.
This plan to flatten suit tier progression is awesome.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
|
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback.
4986
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 01:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
This idea is still a good one.
With the coming changes to PC though this could potentially pave way for increasing accessibility to planetary conquest and potentially allow for a way to simplify the reward structure in PC.
Let's give players earlier access to the fitting side of Dust that makes this game unique while still preserving some suit progression but in a more sensible way.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
Haerr
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2714
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yes! Normalise slot layout through out tiers.
Do it for the LAVs and Dropships as well.
And give LAVs and Dropships inherent armour repair rates just like all the suits and HAVs. |
Slave of MORTE
361
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I really could see this a logical way to approach the issue of tiers and some power disparity while still encouraging progression.
I concur and give my support to this idea as well good work
I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
|
Slave of MORTE
361
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 11:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:This idea is still a good one.
With the coming changes to PC though this could potentially pave way for increasing accessibility to planetary conquest and potentially allow for a way to simplify the reward structure in PC.
Let's give players earlier access to the fitting side of Dust that makes this game unique while still preserving some suit progression but in a more sensible way.
Exactly
I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
|
Kaeru Nayiri
Ready to Play
930
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 18:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Yes! Normalise slot layout through out tiers.
Do it for the LAVs and Dropships as well.
And give LAVs and Dropships inherent armour repair rates just like all the suits and HAVs.
Haerr haerr !
+1
Know what cannot be known.
|
Sarus Rambo
Isuuaya Tactical
Caldari State
178
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 18:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
yes.
+1
This sums up 75% of forum posts.
|
|
|
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
294
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 22:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
Yes yes.
I have mixed feelings about it but in all honesty... I don't think it's a bad idea.
Hell, i can finally run a good assault c-1... That's the first thing I applaud you for.
Plus, i might be able to use up as much fitting space as possible, rather than being forced into slots...
Maybe my recon assault can finally recon w/ 2.precision mods over one.
Yknow what, take it back. I don't have mixed feelings anymore.
The ADS tourney! Join today!
|
Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2985
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 01:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
I am all for this, but I think we should get a hard look at how much more fitting the lower tiered suits would get. IF for instance you can run a full proto setup on an advanced suit, then having the proto suit would be a waste of money. Conversely, if the fitting is too low, then we still have a problem not because the slots aren't there, but because the slots can't be filled because of lack of fitting space.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
|
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback.
4989
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 02:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I am all for this, but I think we should get a hard look at how much more fitting the lower tiered suits would get. IF for instance you can run a full proto setup on an advanced suit, then having the proto suit would be a waste of money. Conversely, if the fitting is too low, then we still have a problem not because the slots aren't there, but because the slots can't be filled because of lack of fitting space.
In terms of "fitting" PG and CPU would be left the same. The only thing that would change would be slots.
The OP has a few good examples:
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2987
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 06:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:
In terms of "fitting" PG and CPU would be left the same. The only thing that would change would be slots.
But that fit will only work if you have max skills. Look at this fit with all militia fittings at no skills at all, basically what a new player would be working with. Note how many resources are needed to fit all that. and it's militia. Even at max skills, you still run over the resource amount we have now. We would have a situation where players couldn't even deploy in their suits because they don't have the fitting room for them.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5766
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 07:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
Should totally happen. An increase in slots as well as fitting capacity and better modules, paired with pools of SP, are just too many advantages veterans have over new players. Flattening slot progression will give new players an edge but not so much as to devalue the time and effort vets have put into the game.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
|
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback.
4989
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 15:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Kain Spero wrote:
In terms of "fitting" PG and CPU would be left the same. The only thing that would change would be slots.
But that fit will only work if you have max skills. Look at this fit with all militia fittings at no skills at all, basically what a new player would be working with.
Again, the goal isn't to eliminate the need or desire for progression. A new player with no actually has similar trouble fitting a basic suit: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/12892
The difference here is that they have even less slots to work with.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2988
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Again, the goal isn't to eliminate the need or desire for progression. A new player with no actually has similar trouble fitting a basic suit: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/12892The difference here is that they have even less slots to work with.
But with max skills, you can run you're fit. Under the current proposal, even at max fittings I still will be unable to fit a suit with militia mods. Here is the same fit I posted, but with max skills. Note how even now, CPU is still over and PG is WAY over the proposed amount.
Even with max skills, it is still impossible to fit a standard assault suit with all militia mods. This shouldn't be; a standard suit should at the least be able to fit all militia and still be deployable. I think a simple solution would be to have his proposed skill V fitting numbers as the base, and have fitting increase it from there. So it would look like this at skill V:
A-1: 279.5 CPU, 55.9 PG
A/1-Series: 419.738 CPU, 85.313 PG
ak.0: 629.606 CPU, 126.26 PG
This way, you can fit all militia at standard, all advanced at advanced, and all proto at proto. Proto gains a little power since it can fit all proto, but its gains are minimal compared to the gains of standard and advanced.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
|
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback.
4989
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
If you have max skills you probably shouldn't be running militia.
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/840/10050
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2988
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:If you have max skills you probably shouldn't be running militia.
If I have max skills and still can't run militia, I can't see how a newberry is supposed to cope. Plus, personally I like to run cheap suits So I don't ever have to worry about money.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
|
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback.
4989
|
Posted - 2015.04.11 16:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Kain Spero wrote:If you have max skills you probably shouldn't be running militia. If I have max skills and still can't run militia, I can't see how a newberry is supposed to cope. Plus, personally I like to run cheap suits So I don't ever have to worry about money.
You do realize that militia have standard stats with worse fitting right?
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |