working as intended. Shields have no movement penalty and regen much faster than armor.

So without maxing Dropsuit Armor Upgrades I'm meant to have more HP then a Caldari fitting 3-4 Complex Shield Extenders and maxed Dropsuit Shield Upgrades with a Gallente with two Enhanced Reactive Plates, one Complex Armor Plate, and one Enhanced Armor Plate?

working as intended. Shields have no movement penalty and regen much faster than armor.

The top Shield Extender in this game gives less HP then a Militia Armor Plate that does not seem right. Please buff shields I can't get my Caldari Assault to even come close in HP to a Gallente Assault. Please love shields <3

working as intended. Shields have no movement penalty and regen much faster than armor.

not quite, at proto level you can easly get armor suits repping 20-40hp/s while still having sizeable buffer comparable to shield suits in terms of caldari shield tankers their shields only rep at 30/hp a tick scout is 50. thats fine however we all know the problems with scouts but i will spare the ear arch..

And I can get a caldari repping at 60-80 with minimal effort.

It takes 4 low slots to rep 40 armor/sec. and even then it's 39 actual.

not quite, at proto level you can easly get armor suits repping 20-40hp/s while still having sizeable buffer comparable to shield suits in terms of caldari shield tankers their shields only rep at 30/hp a tick scout is 50. thats fine however we all know the problems with scouts but i will spare the ear arch..

It takes 4 low slots to rep 40 armor/sec. and even then it's 39 actual.

Perhaps its because armor has more tank AND regens rapidly under fire?

You get bad hit detection when u use shield mods, but
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLzRUswvaFkmeugtCOYGF6nA-O8cIUX8sAW0uZ5zpVTiFDnG30

Which is nearly as fast as the Amarr Scout... so I really don't see any reason you should be complaining about "shields not having enough HP", when they get way better regen, and superior mobility.

Until such time as we get an infantry portable Remote Shield Booster, Armor still technically has the better regen as it can be increased by logi's assisting a teammate. Additionally, shields do not recharge at all while under-fire, Armor does, so while shields have superior regen rates they have to either have to stay next to cover, or eliminate the enemy before the shield buffer fails. This leads to damage modifiers still being a largely better choice than shield extenders.

Now, if shield recharge was changed to be a recharge time to full, with the rate decaying on a curve the closer you get to 100% shield capacity, (with current shield regen rates being the peak recharge rate) I could see there being no real problem with extenders' current HP values, and as stated earlier an infantry portable remote shield booster would be useful for determining overall armor vs shield balance.

Until such time as we get an infantry portable Remote Shield Booster, Armor still technically has the better regen as it can be increased by logi's assisting a teammate. Additionally, shields do not recharge at all while under-fire, Armor does, so while shields have superior regen rates they have to either have to stay next to cover, or eliminate the enemy before the shield buffer fails. This leads to damage modifiers still being a largely better choice than shield extenders.

Now, if shield recharge was changed to be a recharge time to full, with the rate decaying on a curve the closer you get to 100% shield capacity, (with current shield regen rates being the peak recharge rate) I could see there being no real problem with extenders' current HP values, and as stated earlier an infantry portable remote shield booster would be useful for determining overall armor vs shield balance.

not quite, at proto level you can easly get armor suits repping 20-40hp/s while still having sizeable buffer comparable to shield suits in terms of caldari shield tankers their shields only rep at 30/hp a tick scout is 50. thats fine however we all know the problems with scouts but i will spare the ear arch..

"Armor has regen under fire" is a red herring, because even if you fit five Complex Reps, which is approximately 46.9 hp/s (we'll round to 47 hp/s), and you fit these mods to a Gallente Assault suit (has the highest combined value of low slots+native rep) for an additional 3.5 hp/s, we get ~50.5 hp/s, which we'll just call "50 hp/s" since we already round from 46.9 to 47.

The problem comes when you consider the fact that there's no buffer. Referencing the HF Charlie notes, the Gallente Assault has a base armor of 275 hp; combined with Dropsuit Armor Upgrades L5 we get ~344 hp of armor. Doing the same for shields nets us a base of 155 shield hp, and ~194 shield hp after skills.

Fitting shield extenders basically makes this a shitfit- you're trying to get ultra-regen and good buffer at the same time, which simply doesn't work. If you fit damage... well, I don't think it's too hard to figure out that you'll be pretty easily alpha'd off the field due to having almost no buffer, and there's the whole issue that "regen under fire" will never actually save you.

Can it make a long-range fight go in your favor, if you dip in and out of cover? Sure, I suppose it would- but if you use some kind of "MAXIMUM REP" fit you'll be making yourself pathetically vulnerable to an alpha-strike (like a charge shot from the ScR, or even a heated up LR beam).

With the addition of Shield Regulator modules, shield users can get their regen delays very low, so in the same kind of fight they end up with the same benefit- duck into cover, regen a little bit, poke back out. Not only that, but it's not that difficult to get shield regen rates pretty high- as in "40-60 hp/s or higher". Do you need to fit a recharger or an energizer? Well, yeah- but to get that supposedly insane armor rep rate, an armor tanker has to pretty much fill his low slots with reppers.

More-or-less, an armor tanker has to pick between having amazing buffer, and good regen- they can fit a little of both, but one will always be better. Due to the nature of armor mods, it tends to work out that armor has better buffer (IE, more raw HP) than shield, but much worse rep rate... and disadvantage of movement penalties.

Shield suits, however, can attain a useful buffer and high rep rates. By that I mean that a shield suit can get enough shields that they aren't instagibbed whenever someone looks their way, but they still have incredible regen.

Armor is the opposite- you'll get some pretty impressive buffer, but you won't be getting anything resembling impressive regen at the same time; the fact that armor regen works all the time is, IMO, purely because of the fact that once armor goes, you die. If your shields go down you still have a little bit of armor left before you have to be scraped off the floor. Armor users don't really get that benefit.

And I can get a caldari repping at 60-80 with minimal effort.

It takes 4 low slots to rep 40 armor/sec. and even then it's 39 actual.

Advantages to being a shield suit:
-quick/consistent regen
-no movement penalty to primary tank
-can use both armor and shield modules efficiently
-does not rely on other suits for health when tanking
-projectile/explosive resistance resistance(the type of weapons that are most prevalent in the game)

Advantages to being in an armor suit
-constant regeneration
-larger values in tank modules
-can use shield extenders relatively efficiently
-can be repaired by external means
-uh is resistant to certain specific weapons

Seems pretty balance to me, if not it looks like the shield tankers have the advantage...

Please stop my Caldari suit can rep 20 hp armor like it is nothing a good armor fit is easy to fit. You armor guys get constant regen we shields dont and when we do regen 1/2 hp damage can stop that regen. I mean a fly landimg on your dropsuit can stop the regen

Except that an armor suit doesn't have to fit for regen to get regen thanks to the Repair Tool equipment,

as long as there remains no shield option there is no way to correctly compare them.

And as an armor tanker and long time amarr logi, let me tell you Armor Regen under fire is and awesome boon, even now with the current rep rates it can make the difference in survival and death.

Granted buffer will help you more in general, I prefer to have higher regen because my health does come back as bullets are coming in. I'm not saying that the base armor regen is insane currently (nowhere in my post did I reference insane armor regen from native reps only) but pointing out that it always works, regardless of when you last took damage.

Its also noteworthy that there are more anti-armor damage types in this game than Anti-shield types.

Good thing I made a note of that in the post that I posted...

two Enhanced Reactive Plates, one Complex Armor Plate, and one Enhanced Armor Plate

Then buff Armour suits base shields.

Since a shield suit can get nearly as much armour a armour based suit, but not vise versa.

I love shield tankers arguments against armor.

The fact that they think stacking complex armor plates is a viable thing on a Gallente Assault suits just gives you an understanding of how ignorant they are about armor tanking.

What's sad is that the same people do not know how to make a proper shield suit.


Just saying, The Caldari Assault is by far one of the better Assault Suits if you dont count the lame ass bonus.

working as intended. Shields have no movement penalty and regen much faster than armor.

The top Shield Extender in this game gives less HP then a Militia Armor Plate that does not seem right. Please buff shields I can't get my Caldari Assault to even come close in HP to a Gallente Assault. Please love shields <3

I have skilled into EVERY dropsuit in this game. (Std some adv and 1 proto). Of all, this is the reason I don't like cardari. Their shields are just to low. When we talk about a buff, I mean that caldari/shields need a BIG buff. Shields in total should be more than armor as they are the first one of defense and can't be repaired. If an amarr has lets 500 armor and 100 shield, calamari should have 100 armor and 550-600 shields. The more shields make up for the fact that shields can't be repaired and they do not recharge while taking damage. This actually could balance out the assault scrambler rifle.

I have skilled into EVERY dropsuit in this game. (Std some adv and 1 proto). Of all, this is the reason I don't like cardari. Their shields are just to low. When we talk about a buff, I mean that caldari/shields need a BIG buff. Shields in total should be more than armor as they are the first one of defense and can't be repaired. If an amarr has lets 500 armor and 100 shield, calamari should have 100 armor and 550-600 shields. The more shields make up for the fact that shields can't be repaired and they do not recharge while taking damage. This actually could balance out the assault scrambler rifle.

Y'all shieldfggts need to stop your whining.

Look at this fit!
Look at it!
[...]

This is a tactic that requires two or more players to actually take advantage of. If you do not have at least two players (IE, the MAXIMUM BRICK and the dork with the repair tool), then this is impossible to actually take advantage of.

Not only that, but fitting for MAXIMUM BRICK is generally assumed to involve Complex Armor Plates. Fitting multiple Complex Plates results in your speed going from "a little bit slower" to "slower than that fat ass you're trying to rep". Seriously, throw four Complex Plates onto anything, and watch your speed go down the drain.



False; there's a way to appropriately compare each method. That method is to compare them in isolation; IE, using only what modules can be fitted to a singular suit, without outside assistance- like repair tools.

working as intended. Shields have no movement penalty and regen much faster than armor.

Complex ferroscarle plate has 75hp of armor, complex shield extender has 66hp.

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Your point being? Shields still regenerate faster.
A complex extender is far better than a complex ferroscale simply because base shield regen is so high.

Yeah, too bad it's almost twice its CPU and 1/3 plus its PG, and it has a 7% delay penalty, and of course the nonexistent delay of armor repping.

3 complex 7% of added delay doesn't even equate to a second longer. Besides you have all those lows to use cpu and pg mods...

Whereas you have highs for damage mods.

I think that if they were to remove the delay penalty to Shield Extenders Shields and Armor would be balanced. Many reasons -- but Ya'll are probably tired of text walls so I'll leave it at that.

my 2 isk.

More HP Creep?

If Armor is deemed superior to Shields, then nerfing Armor HP would probably be better for balance than buffing Shield HP.

In terms of modules, kind of not really.

In terms of suits, not at all. Shield suits are way superior to armor suits.

This made me lol...

Well, it is true.
Without any modules equipped at all, the base stats of a shield suit completely outperform the base stats on an armor suit.

A Caldari assault without any modules will always have an advantage over a Gallente assault with no modules.