I think that if you really want to benefit the new player then you should consider giving them all the frontlines with a militia racial equipment.

stickied, and thanks, it's one of those things you always mean to do, then...

I think that if you really want to benefit the new player then you should consider giving them all the frontlines with a militia racial equipment. New players will be able to see how each races plays in terms of combat. As it stands now, new players are given different starter fits based on roles on the battlefield; sniper, anti-vehicle, ``medic``, and slayer. In my opinion giving the new player the chance to experience what each race has to offer would be more beneficial.

I made a thread on this a month or so ago, I just made five starter fits per race in protofits. Here is the link if you want to use anything I made as a reference point.

As long as we are talking about starter fits, I think there should be a heavy and light starter fit to go with the mediums we already have. A chance to try everything with no skills required.

Why do mlt medium frames have less slots than mlt light frames?

Scouts, and their mlt counterparts both have the same number of slots. assaults and starter suits should be the same way.

Amarr 1/3
Caldari 3/1
Gallente 1/3
Minmatar 2/2

Same with sentinels and mlt heavy frames, and mlt frames all have a 1/1 slot layout.
Amarr 1/2
Caldari 2/1
Gallente 1/2
Minmatar 2/1

I think the starter frames are based on the basic medium frames, not the assault.

But, if they basic medium frames don't match their militia counterparts then they probably never got updated when Rattati and Co. updated the layouts on assaults.

There should be a proper militia logistics suit for each race in the starter fits. Not a hack job medium suit labelled as 'Medic'.

Without a shield transporter or some kind of militia armor repair hive, how would you create a 'Support' starter fitting?

Give me some examples that are not totally broken and I can throw them in the spreadsheet for comparison.

I thought about taking the 'Support' dropsuits I have in my doc and giving them one extra empty equipment slot. That way the newberry can put whatever militia equipment they want to try in that slot.

Also, your sig is awesome.

Also, your sig is awesome.

Sorry I haven't looked at your spreadsheet yet Ripley. Will try to later.

Looking at the spreadsheet...

You really shouldn't make every starter fit have the same light weapon.

For the minmatar, there should be one fit for each weapon: CR, ACR, Mass Driver
Which weapon goes where is up to you. Plasma Cannon, Laser Rifle, and Sniper Rifle for the other races of course.

I'd say that each race should also get a fitting with a shotgun, swarm launcher, and hmg...but that might be taking it a bit too far

I like the idea of a "baby logi" starter fitting a lot actually. I have updated the spreadsheet with another scenario: Support w/ 2 Equipment.

Looking at the spreadsheet...

You really shouldn't make every starter fit have the same light weapon.

For the minmatar, there should be one fit for each weapon: CR, ACR, Mass Driver
Which weapon goes where is up to you. Plasma Cannon, Laser Rifle, and Sniper Rifle for the other races of course.

I'd say that each race should also get a fitting with a shotgun, swarm launcher, and hmg...but that might be taking it a bit too far

You could base it on the type-II's, like the "Fossil" militia minmatar BPO. One light, no sidearm, and 2 EQ slots.

Honestly, I'd also like to see the needles taken away from the medic fits if they didn't have 2 EQ slots.

I'm surprised the Amarr ones is still missing a slot.

Needles are just convenient, I think. They are pretty easy to understand: click O on a dead guy, receive war points. The tactical advantage to a team is noticeable.

Let the needles stay, but give them a piece of racial equipment to compliment them. Future logibros will become familiar with swapping between equipment this way. I like your idea of mimicking the 'Fossil' fitting. Now we just have to remove the sidearm from the Amarr logi so everyone is uniform

The starter fitting's slots have not been updated since launch. It's kind of sad really. Poor newberries.

Die!

Adding a reactive plate (3% penalty to movement speed) negates its speed which the minmatar rely on. Newberries don't have have biotics level three to negate it.

2)On the the medic suits: NO PRECISION ENHANCER!

I agree the the myrofib is useless on the suit. However,in a nightmare world where you gave a medic only two slots, both of them need to be hp buffers. Might as well leave the myrofib on it. Whats a militia precision enhancer going to do on a character with zero SP in precision enhancement?

I agree with changing the needle for a rep tool. Along with the recent needle changes

Adding a second equipment slot i am sorry to vote no. As much as i want a free BPO logi suit, These are the starter suits, and they get the same slot layout as a basic Caldari logi?

3) AV Side arm : the Magsec is not Minmatar SMG would be just fine.

That being said i would also revert the flay to the smg as a side arm on the frontline suit as well. If your going minmatar assault then your bonus is with the SMG. Militia flaylock simply doesn't have the power (158 damage lol ) or the splash (1.5m)to be any good.

standard reactive plates do not have a speed penalty. Also, Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades only effects your sprint speeds; not walk/strafe.

Also, Shield Extender: 33 HP + shield depleted recharge penalty... Reactive plate: 25 HP + 1HP/sec armor repair (no penalty)

That's a difference of 8 HP...

To state it flatly, I think you are wrong about this. Adding a low slot gives the new merc a bit more fitting versatility if he ever feels like editing his dropsuit as well.

A single militia precision module can allow a medium frame to spot another undamped medium frame with the dampening skill V... that is useful for a new player. Currently, most assaults and logis do not fit dampeners. This would allow the logi to see hostiles coming more often.

Did you see Support B? The reactive plate would add more eHP as well as armor repair.

They might have a similar slot layout when compared to a logi, but they don't get the passive bonuses to equipment. This will make their equipment perform less effectively as well as make their fittings tighter.

Bottom line: the logi dropsuits will always be superior to the free fittings.

The flaylock has a splash of 1.75m +5% per level of flaylock operation. It's much, much better now. Giving an automatic light weapon with an automatic sidearm doesn't allow them to experience both aspects of Minmatar weaponry: DAKKA DAKKA and BOOM!

On the Logi precision: a logi is not supposed to go around looking for enemy players. Damped or not, you're already going to be in close range when you do find them. r It still utterly useles for a logi to equip, especially considering a lack of other hp options, as well as you have NO Damps or Range Amps. You will both find each other at the same time, except he will have more hp than you. Bye bye medic.

On logi passive bonuses Logi suits have a passive bonus to just one equipment. All of the other equipment any suit can use just as well. Thus, the scout logi was born. Any suit in the game can rep as much as a Proto Amarr, Caldari, and Gallente Logi. Switch any equipment and any logi associated with it in the above sentence.

Flaylock does have 5% per level, newberries haven't got the flaylock skill to adv or pro yet to take advantage of that. The militia flaylock is still hot garbage. Try running around with an unspecced flaylock. A militia SMG is by far superior.

[
Bare in mind, we are not trying to min-max a fitting sometimes. We are also trying to expose a new player to a race's weaponry. The ACR hints at the Minmatar's high RoF weaponry while the flaylock denotes their tendency to favor things that go boom (mass driver, for example).

Why not give the medic or one of the variants a militia mass driver?

The suits need not be identical.

What I think for CALDARI :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vSklbYFfcb0ZITtBws_BhGucnC4WjdnR3-cLu29LufI/edit#gid=0

Thoughts ?

Tiericide would be interesting and probably great for the game, but it's not happening in the near future as far as we can tell. If it does happen it won't be until Legion, more than likely.

That being said, the focus of this thread is to work with what we have: starter fittings.

Explain something to me, why does the Amarr logi need to be special? It is the only logi to receive a sidearm. That causes some odd balancing issues. Imagine if only the Gallente Assault received two light weapons instead of a light and a sidearm... wouldn't that be strange and kind of silly?

I don't want to derail the thread too much. If you want to reply in-game that's fine by me.

Depends. Tanks were tiericided and they've never been more boring and uninspired. It's a great buzzword that... but doesn't always work in practice.

Here is my suggestion.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/t_t50nnaSSgBu9CD0D7gLaQ/htmlview

Take away that needle from the medic and give him a damn rep tool already.

Can't view it. Make the doc available to anyone with the link and I'll check it out. Also, I have updated my doc with potential light fittings titled 'Recon'.

Agree on everything except the removal of the Sniper fit.
So long as Sniper rifles are in the game, newbs should be aware of them, and how to use them.

Removing it serves no objective purpose.

Let them fall back on it when they're in over their head in a match.

They need to save all the isk they can in the beginning.

A new player's first experience playing Dust 514 should be with the starter fittings. The 'Frontline' fitting is meant to offer a view of a race's tanking style and weapon choices. For half of these dropsuits, this is true. For the other half... not so much.

Current starter fitting scenarios in a handy Google doc...

Special thanks to One Eyed King, Edgar Reinhart, and Joseph Ridgeson for getting me the 'Medic' fittings while I was trapped at work.

Updated docu with a new tab: 'Recon' starter fitting for light dropsuits.

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The Minmatar frontline starter fitting currently features three high slots, zero low slots; two shield extenders and one shield recharger. Minmatar in Dust 514 use a hybrid tanking style coupled with their innate walk/sprint speed advantages and hellish stamina regeneration.

Frontline A has the extender and recharger suggesting the shield tanking preference of the Minmatar. None of the modules reduce the speed of the dropsuit which is paramount on Minmatar fittings. The armor repairer allows the Minmatar to disengage from a fire fight, repair to 100% armor, then re-engage the enemy quicker.

In Frontline B, replacing the repairer with the reactive plate will allow for a tiny bit more eHP while still leaving the walk/sprint speed untouched. Since there is no militia version of this module, I'm not certain it can be placed in a starter fitting or not.

Rattati is currently experimenting with strafe speed penalties being added to HP modules (extenders and armor plates). Removing one of the extenders will lessen the blow to this dropsuit's strafe speed if that change goes live.

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Amarr tanking style favors massive amounts of armor HP coupled with resistances. For some ungodly reason, the Amarr frontline fitting features two high slots and zero lows; two shield extenders... the polar opposite of what you would expect from a slow, brick armor tanking dropsuit. The Amarr frontline fitting is missing a slot as well.

Frontline A emphasizes the Amarr armor tanking doctrine. High slots are removed altogether, as literally every other Amarr dropsuit features more lows than highs.

The Frontline B allows the new player to retain walk/sprint speed. The removal of the armor repairer keeps this dropsuit from infringing on the Gallente's tanking style. Again, since ferroscale plates are not available in a militia form, this may not be possible.

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The Minmatar 'Medic' fitting features the 3H/0L design; shield extender, shield recharger, and... this can't be right... can it? A myofibril stimulant. Yes, because when I think of a medic I imagine someone punching a hostile in the face /s

In Support A the extender sticks around to add HP and the armor repairer is added for the same reasons detailed above. The precision enhancer may allow a new player to spot hostile threats before needling a downed ally.

Support B is similar, but swaps the armor repairer for a reactive plate. The extra armor HP could be the different between surviving a run across enemy fire to needle an ally or not.

Finally, exchange the plasma rifle with the militia assault combat rifle.

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I support both the removal of the 'Sniper' starter fitting as well as the renaming of 'Medic' to 'Support'.

Thank you for reading and I welcome any feedback. I personally do not fit Minmatar dropsuits so suggestions in fitting their starter fitting would be appreciated.

Please keep in mind that these fittings are intended to teach a new player how a race should fit their dropsuit, not the current metagame.

tired, can't be arsed to read, but why the *#%&* has the amarr starter fits got 2 highs 150 shields and 300 Armour - but no space for a rep......useless bro