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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5089
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Posted - 2014.11.26 14:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
A new player's first experience playing Dust 514 should be with the starter fittings. The frontline fitting is meant to offer a view of a race's tanking style and weapon choices. For half of these dropsuits, this is true. For the other half... not so much. The Minmatar and Amarr fittings need to be fixed.
The Minmatar frontline starter fitting currently features three high slots, zero low slots; two shield extenders and one shield recharger. Minmatar in Dust 514 use a hybrid tanking style coupled with their innate walk/sprint speed advantages and hellish stamina regeneration.
I would suggest the following:
1x shield extender
1x shield recharger
1x armor repairer
The extender and recharger suggest the shield tanking preference of the Minmatar. None of the modules reduce the speed of the dropsuit which is paramount on Minmatar fittings. The armor repairer allows the Minmatar to disengage from a fire fight, repair to 100% armor, then re-engage the enemy quicker.
Alternative:
1x shield extender
1x shield recharger
1x reactive plate
Replacing the repairer with the reactive plate will allow for a tiny bit more eHP while still leaving the walk/sprint speed untouched. Since there is no militia version of this module, I'm not certain it can be placed in a starter fitting or not.
Rattati is currently experimenting with strafe speed penalties being added to HP modules (extenders and armor plates). Removing one of the extenders will lessen the blow to this dropsuit's strafe speed if that change goes live.
Amarr tanking style favors massive amounts of armor HP coupled with resistances. For some ungodly reason, the Amarr frontline fitting features two high slots and zero lows; two shield extenders... the polar opposite of what you would expect from a slow, brick armor tanking dropsuit. The Amarr frontline fitting is missing a slot as well.
I suggest the following:
2x armor plate
1x armor repairer
This emphasizes the Amarr armor tanking doctrine well. The high slots are removed altogether, as literally every other Amarr dropsuit features more lows than highs.
Alternative:
2x ferroscale plate
1x armor plate
Using this method allows the new player to retain more walk/sprint speeds. The removal of the armor repairer keeps this dropsuit from infringing on the Gallente's tanking style. Again, since ferroscale plates are not available in a militia form, this may not be possible.
Thank you for reading and I welcome any feedback. I personally do not fit Minmatar dropsuits so suggestions in fitting their starter fitting would be appreciated.
Please keep in mind that these fittings are intended to teach a new player how a race should fit their dropsuit, not the current metagame.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5089
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Posted - 2014.11.26 15:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Grand Master Kubo wrote:I think that if you really want to benefit the new player then you should consider giving them all the frontlines with a militia racial equipment. Interesting. For example...
Amarr - drop uplinks
Gallente - active scanner
Minmatar - repair tool
Caldari - nanohive
Or would you suggest removing the 'Medic' fitting and maybe replacing it with a 'Support' fitting. Very much like what we have now; minus a sidearm slot, plus an additional equipment slot?
Amarr - drop uplinks + nanohives
Gallente - active scanner + repair tool
Minmatar - repair tool + nanite injectors
Caldari - injectors + nanohives
Of course, there is not currently a militia active scanner. Or is there? I haven't checked recently.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5092
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Posted - 2014.11.26 17:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:I made a thread on this a month or so ago, I just made five starter fits per race in protofits. Here is the link if you want to use anything I made as a reference point. As long as we are talking about starter fits, I think there should be a heavy and light starter fit to go with the mediums we already have. A chance to try everything with no skills required. The trouble with those fittings is that they are still adhering to the old slot layouts (e.g. Minmatar 3H/0L and Amarr 2H/1L... sweet lord every time I see those high slots on an Amarr fitting it makes me physically ill).
I am all for a starter fittings featuring heavy and light basic frames. They won't feature the innate EWAR bonuses of a scout or passive resists of a sentinel so they shouldn't be overpowered.
Also, going on the record as fully supporting the removal of the 'Sniper' starter fitting entirely.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5094
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Posted - 2014.11.26 17:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Why do mlt medium frames have less slots than mlt light frames?
Scouts, and their mlt counterparts both have the same number of slots. assaults and starter suits should be the same way.
Amarr 1/3
Caldari 3/1
Gallente 1/3
Minmatar 2/2
Same with sentinels and mlt heavy frames, and mlt frames all have a 1/1 slot layout.
Amarr 1/2
Caldari 2/1
Gallente 1/2
Minmatar 2/1 I think the starter frames are based on the basic medium frames, not the assault.
But, if they basic medium frames don't match their militia counterparts then they probably never got updated when Rattati and Co. updated the layouts on assaults.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5095
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:There should be a proper militia logistics suit for each race in the starter fits. Not a hack job medium suit labelled as 'Medic'. Without a shield transporter or some kind of militia armor repair hive, how would you create a 'Support' starter fitting?
Give me some examples that are not totally broken and I can throw them in the spreadsheet for comparison.
I thought about taking the 'Support' dropsuits I have in my doc and giving them one extra empty equipment slot. That way the newberry can put whatever militia equipment they want to try in that slot.
Also, your sig is awesome.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5097
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Posted - 2014.11.26 20:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:Sorry I haven't looked at your spreadsheet yet Ripley. Will try to later. I like the idea of a "baby logi" starter fitting a lot actually. I have updated the spreadsheet with another scenario: Support w/ 2 Equipment.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5105
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Posted - 2014.11.26 21:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Looking at the spreadsheet...
You really shouldn't make every starter fit have the same light weapon.
For the minmatar, there should be one fit for each weapon: CR, ACR, Mass Driver
Which weapon goes where is up to you. Plasma Cannon, Laser Rifle, and Sniper Rifle for the other races of course.
I'd say that each race should also get a fitting with a shotgun, swarm launcher, and hmg...but that might be taking it a bit too far
X
Copy
Scroll to the copy
X
Edit
Change the light weapon to one of the above mentioned weapons
Confirm
C'mon, we can't effectively give them a BPO for every militia weapon.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5109
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Posted - 2014.11.26 23:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:You could base it on the type-II's, like the "Fossil" militia minmatar BPO. One light, no sidearm, and 2 EQ slots.
Honestly, I'd also like to see the needles taken away from the medic fits if they didn't have 2 EQ slots. Needles are just convenient, I think. They are pretty easy to understand: click O on a dead guy, receive war points. The tactical advantage to a team is noticeable.
Let the needles stay, but give them a piece of racial equipment to compliment them. Future logibros will become familiar with swapping between equipment this way. I like your idea of mimicking the 'Fossil' fitting. Now we just have to remove the sidearm from the Amarr logi so everyone is uniform 
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I'm surprised the Amarr ones is still missing a slot. The starter fitting's slots have not been updated since launch. It's kind of sad really. Poor newberries.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5117
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Posted - 2014.11.27 01:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Die! Explain something to me, why does the Amarr logi need to be special? It is the only logi to receive a sidearm. That causes some odd balancing issues. Imagine if only the Gallente Assault received two light weapons instead of a light and a sidearm... wouldn't that be strange and kind of silly?
I don't want to derail the thread too much. If you want to reply in-game that's fine by me.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5118
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Posted - 2014.11.27 02:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Adding a reactive plate (3% penalty to movement speed) negates its speed which the minmatar rely on. Newberries don't have have biotics level three to negate it. ... standard reactive plates do not have a speed penalty and Biotic Upgrades only effects sprint speeds.
Also, Shield Extender: 33 HP + shield depleted recharge penalty... Reactive plate: 25 HP + 1HP/sec armor repair (no drawback)
That's a difference of 8 HP...
To state it flatly, I think you are wrong about this. Adding a low slot gives the new merc a bit more fitting versatility if he ever feels like editing his dropsuit as well.
Tesfa Alem wrote:2)On the the medic suits: NO PRECISION ENHANCER!
I agree the the myrofib is useless on the suit. However,in a nightmare world where you gave a medic only two slots, both of them need to be hp buffers. Might as well leave the myrofib on it. Whats a militia precision enhancer going to do on a character with zero SP in precision enhancement?
I agree with changing the needle for a rep tool. Along with the recent needle changes
Adding a second equipment slot i am sorry to vote no. As much as i want a free BPO logi suit, These are the starter suits, and they get the same slot layout as a basic Caldari logi? They might get a similar slot layout, but they don't get the passive bonuses to equipment. The logi dropsuits will always be superior to the free fittings.
Tesfa Alem wrote:3) AV Side arm : the Magsec is not Minmatar SMG would be just fine.
That being said i would also revert the flay to the smg as a side arm on the frontline suit as well. If your going minmatar assault then your bonus is with the SMG. Militia flaylock simply doesn't have the power (158 damage lol ) or the splash (1.5m)to be any good.
The flaylock has a splash of 1.75m +5% per level of flaylock operation. It's much, much better now. Giving an automatic light weapon with an automatic sidearm doesn't allow them to experience both aspects of Minmatar weaponry: DAKKA DAKKA and BOOM!
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5127
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Posted - 2014.11.27 03:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:On the Logi precision: a logi is not supposed to go around looking for enemy players. Damped or not, you're already going to be in close range when you do find them. r It still utterly useles for a logi to equip, especially considering a lack of other hp options, as well as you have NO Damps or Range Amps. You will both find each other at the same time, except he will have more hp than you. Bye bye medic. Rattati is gathering feedback on an EWAR update as we speak. I added EWAR mods to some fits in anticipation of this.
But fair enough, Support C has been added to the spreadsheet. It is a fitting designed for maximum eHP without impacting walk/strade speeds.
Tesfa Alem wrote:On logi passive bonuses Logi suits have a passive bonus to just one equipment. All of the other equipment any suit can use just as well. Thus, the scout logi was born. Any suit in the game can rep as much as a Proto Amarr, Caldari, and Gallente Logi. Switch any equipment and any logi associated with it in the above sentence. You are forgetting the 5% reduction to CPU/PG for equipment per level. This allows them to fit higher quality tanking modules and/or equipment than a basic frame with the same number of slots. Better modules translates into a more durable, more effective support role.
Again, a logi dropsuits will always be superior to a basic frame with the same number of slots.
Tesfa Alem wrote:Flaylock does have 5% per level, newberries haven't got the flaylock skill to adv or pro yet to take advantage of that. The militia flaylock is still hot garbage. Try running around with an unspecced flaylock. A militia SMG is by far superior. Bare in mind, we are not truing to min-max a fitting sometimes. We are also trying to expose a new player to a race's weaponry. The ACR hints at the Minmatar's high RoF weaponry while the flaylock denotes their tendency to favor things that go boom (mass driver, for example).
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5127
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Posted - 2014.11.27 04:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Why not give the medic or one of the variants a militia mass driver?
The suits need not be identical. There seems to be a theme where CCP puts the racial rifle in the light weapon slot. For the 'Frontline' starter fitting I am 100% for that. Assault and commando dropsuits excel with their racial rifles.
But for the 'Support' fitting I don't see why we couldn't vary it up. Minmatar Support C now features a mass driver.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5169
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Posted - 2014.11.30 06:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tiericide would be interesting and probably great for the game, but it's not happening in the near future as far as we can tell. If it does happen it won't be until Legion, more than likely.
That being said, the focus of this thread is to work with what we have: starter fittings.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5172
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Posted - 2014.11.30 23:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Depends. Tanks were tiericided and they've never been more boring and uninspired. It's a great buzzword that... but doesn't always work in practice. Tiericide is great, it didn't work with HAVs largely because we still don't have a grasp of what the HAV role is supposed to be. Super slayer? Then why have infantry. Anti-vehicle vehicle? I thought that was the ADS niche, even if it isn't, why not just have infantry do it since they are more agile and don't cost as much. Plus, their aren't multiple roles for the HAV to fill really. Infantry has plenty of roles so dropsuits would be easier to tiericide (since it is a verb now  )
Can't view it. Make the doc available to anyone with the link and I'll check it out. Also, I have updated my doc with potential light fittings titled 'Recon'.
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Take away that needle from the medic and give him a damn rep tool already. What is your argument for the repair tool vs. the needles? Why does the repair tool benefit the newberry more?
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5697
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Posted - 2014.12.20 07:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Agree on everything except the removal of the Sniper fit.
So long as Sniper rifles are in the game, newbs should be aware of them, and how to use them. I'm not suggesting the removal of the sniper rifle skills or militia sniper rifle, just the free fitting. If a new player has the urge to attempt the sniper role he/she can fit a militia sniper to one of the existing starter fittings.
Jathniel wrote:Removing it serves no objective purpose. It prevents new players from recognizing the sniping role as common role. Snipers should be uncommon; 1 - 2 on a team, max. With a free fitting from day 0 they may believe snipers make up a much larger portion of a team than that. This is bad. Very bad. Encouraging this belief leads to matches where I have an ENTIRE SQUAD of blueberries sitting in the hills.
Maybe you haven't been in a match where a third of your team was sniping, but believe me when I tell you, it is infuriating.
Jathniel wrote:Let them fall back on it when they're in over their head in a match. Being in over your head is the status quo during your first month in Dust 514 Removing or retaining the sniper fitting won't change that.
Jathniel wrote:They need to save all the isk they can in the beginning. All starter fittings allow new players to conserve their ISK.
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6592
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Posted - 2015.01.13 13:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:tired, can't be arsed to read, but why the *#%&* has the amarr starter fits got 2 highs 150 shields and 300 Armour - but no space for a rep......useless bro It really, really is. I wholeheartedly agree with you. The Amarr starter is a travesty.
In my suggested Amarr Frontline fitting I give it three lows, no highs. One frontline suggestion features armor plate x2 and an armor repairer. The other suggestion has ferroscale plates x2, and an armor plate. I think I prefer the second fitting, personally.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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