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Jathniel
G I A N T
1282
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Posted - 2014.11.21 19:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Things we were supposed to get.
The Frame system for customized weapons.
http://rakshasa.no/downloads/eve/wallpapers/smg_modelsheet1200x2133.jpg
Aircraft, the last two MCCs, medium vehicles, and (the last two on the bottom right.... are "bikes"?)
http://i.imgur.com/4xNAmjj.png
The other melee weapons...
http://i.imgur.com/uoQpwnJ.jpg
The other tanks and cars...
http://newmmorpgames.ru/uploads/posts/2013-06/1370063245_dust-514.png
Then there were these guys...
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/f2/09/19/f2091904e87ea5246566bf39b48bc686.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nn8ThFVx-1E/UNpz1SuKVhI/AAAAAAAAAcM/chIi-cPGRxk/s640/dust+514+rogue+drone+2.png
Electronic weapon sight (on AR) (something we actually HAD, that was taken away)
http://www.gamearthub.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/555_max.jpg
But my questions for our Lord and Savior, is if he is aware of just how much was expected of Dust.
And, is it reasonable to see ANY of these things come (come back) to Dust? Or are they going to be only for Legion?
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5020
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Posted - 2014.11.21 19:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Legion. Whenever that happens.
My advice to you, playa...
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
8566
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 19:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Legion. Whenever that happens.
It probably won't happen.
I'm willing to bet ISK that Legion is Fubar.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5020
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Posted - 2014.11.21 20:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:It probably won't happen.
I'm willing to bet ISK that Legion is Fubar. Speculation is fun. I'm waiting for fanfest 2015 to make my own judgement.
My advice to you, playa...
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
995
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 21:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:It probably won't happen.
I'm willing to bet ISK that Legion is Fubar. Speculation is fun. I'm waiting for fanfest 2015 to make my own judgement.
Id say legion is in its final proof of concept stage before actual production.
Apex suits anyone?
Waiting on the green light/red light of fanfest.
Please Lone-wolf responsibly. Calling for nerfs because you died is bad, cause its usually your own stupid fault.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
703
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 21:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Firts we need full racial technology, drones and custom later boyo ;)
"In the rust we trust"
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Wilhelm Klingspor
DUST University
Ivy League
314
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 21:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well i'm in tears now, i hope your happy.
Dat Jetbike man...the humanity
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
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LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
3850
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Posted - 2014.11.21 21:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
They should redo the design of Minnie knives so that they look like rusty icepicks with duct tape around the handles. If I had a pair of those, then I'd really be shanking reds on the field. |
First Prophet
Nos Nothi
1955
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Posted - 2014.11.21 21:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Will we get separate models for logistic and assault suits? Wasn't the recolor thing supposed to be temporary?
'Cause like, the whole recolor to represent the separate roles idea kind of got thrown out the window with all these recolors you're throwing at us now.
People find this this review helpful!
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
2056
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 21:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
wow.. winmatar soo modular! and DAT SUPPRESSED SMG!
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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sir RAVEN WING
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
382
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Posted - 2014.11.21 21:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've seen all those before... If you look at the Rogue Drone, it has a Creodoen Shotgun.
If we got a taste of PvE I would quit my Job, Go buy everything in Dust and be happy! I'm kinda glad we never will.
"I shall fight for my people until I can't come back."
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TooMany Names AlreadyTaken
Going for the gold
331
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Posted - 2014.11.21 22:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
We should be getting the other MCC's and knives in DUST, I honestly can't see why not.
That moment when you mow down a proto Caldari assault suit with a militia laser rifle.
Words can't describe it.
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Wilhelm Klingspor
DUST University
Ivy League
314
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 22:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:We should be getting the other MCC's and knives in DUST, I honestly can't see why not.
I know, it's just a 3d model right? I remember thinking " It will surely be in 1.2 " i mean why bother wit lore, races and the whole One universe mallarky when you're a gallente jumping out of a Caldari Mcc, don't get me started on FW.
It's a damn shame, thats what it is.
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
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Cass Caul
1678
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Posted - 2014.11.21 22:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Legion. Whenever that happens. It probably won't happen. I'm willing to bet ISK that Legion is Fubar.
Naw, bro. Legion will totally be released, but when UR4 was released they were like "Naw, we don't need a better engine we're totally confindant in our ability to modify UR3 extensively enough that we don't need them to create the new features for us."
So it's going to be garbage. It's going to play like Counter-Strike 1.0. It's going to be 15 years behind in graphics and functionality.
But it will exist. Just, as a worthless thing that will get more EVE subscribers to drop the game out of disappointment
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14932
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Posted - 2014.11.21 22:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rattati has said he doesn't feel about to some extent to previous promises and obligations made by his predecessors and instead prefers to look into number fixes.....or something along those lines.
Sadly however he tweaks and fixes based on the numbers he has and does not have the development power at this time, to my understanding, to push out new content.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
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Posted - 2014.11.21 22:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Rattati has said he doesn't feel about to some extent to previous promises and obligations made by his predecessors and instead prefers to look into number fixes.....or something along those lines.
I would not say Rattati prefers number fixes over previous content promises. What I would say, is he prefers things that make the game better over previous content promises.
For instance, can anyone theorize what the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs would do to benefit gameplay? Would they make gameplay more fun? I understand there are some racial purists, like True here, but I don't believe in racial parity for racial parity's sake personally. I want game mechanics. I want gameplay.
If something is going to add gameplay that is equal or greater to the cost and time it will take CCP to put it in, let's do it. But if it's just going to add "one more thing" without making the game fun, then it's pointless, and CCP can better use that time and money doing something else.
Just because "something was promised" doesn't mean it's actually the best choice or direction for the game. Especially when it was promised by people who did a terrible job making decisions about the direction for the game. o_o
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Wilhelm Klingspor
DUST University
Ivy League
315
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 23:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:Rattati has said he doesn't feel about to some extent to previous promises and obligations made by his predecessors and instead prefers to look into number fixes.....or something along those lines. I would not say Rattati prefers number fixes over previous content promises. What I would say, is he prefers things that make the game better over previous content promises. For instance, can anyone theorize what the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs would do to benefit gameplay? Would they make gameplay more fun? I understand there are some racial purists, like True here, but I don't believe in racial parity for racial parity's sake personally. I want game mechanics. I want gameplay. If something is going to add gameplay that is equal or greater to the cost and time it will take CCP to put it in, let's do it. But if it's just going to add "one more thing" without making the game fun, then it's pointless, and CCP can better use that time and money doing something else. Just because "something was promised" doesn't mean it's actually the best choice or direction for the game. Especially when it was promised by people who did a terrible job making decisions about the direction for the game. o_o
You're absolutely right about putting development time in now. Rattati has bigger fish to fry than a hunk of rust and a Golden GloryVessel in the sky. i agree, but it's still a bit odd that it feels Gallente vs Caldari 514 even with the new weapons and suits.
And lets be honest, a little lore or context would not hurt this game at all.
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
5029
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 23:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rattati knows about all of this. He has stated that the past is the past and his current stance is that he is under no obligation to fulfill his predecessors promises.
Even though it is literally the only thing that can possibly ensure this game has a future.
In hindsight, probably not the best stance to take.
It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14933
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 23:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:Rattati has said he doesn't feel about to some extent to previous promises and obligations made by his predecessors and instead prefers to look into number fixes.....or something along those lines. I would not say Rattati prefers number fixes over previous content promises. What I would say, is he prefers things that make the game better over previous content promises. For instance, can anyone theorize what the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs would do to benefit gameplay? Would they make gameplay more fun? I understand there are some racial purists, like True here, but I don't believe in racial parity for racial parity's sake personally. I want game mechanics. I want gameplay. If something is going to add gameplay that is equal or greater to the cost and time it will take CCP to put it in, let's do it. But if it's just going to add "one more thing" without making the game fun, then it's pointless, and CCP can better use that time and money doing something else. Just because "something was promised" doesn't mean it's actually the best choice or direction for the game. Especially when it was promised by people who did a terrible job making decisions about the direction for the game. o_o
I believe you can only attain a true and meaningful sense of balance when all core racial content is in the game.
Currently....actually for the past year or so I feel CCP has been pointing the big middle finger at anyone who is not Caldari or Gallente..... moreover I have yet to see CCP Rattati engage veteran vehicle users in a meaningful manner about the development of their role.
All he's been doing is pandering to the endless whining of infantry players.....which I have no grief over anymore it's rather clear at this point vehicles are an afterthought.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 00:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I believe you can only attain a true and meaningful sense of balance when all core racial content is in the game.
True: Again, what content does the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs provide?
"Racial content" is nonsense, because racial versions in themselves, provide no content. If there are ways they are different from existing versions, then perhaps you have content.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Sinboto Simmons
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
6538
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Posted - 2014.11.22 00:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:I believe you can only attain a true and meaningful sense of balance when all core racial content is in the game. True: Again, what content does the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs provide? "Racial content" is nonsense, because racial versions in themselves, provide no content. If there are ways they are different from existing versions, then perhaps you have content.
It's times like this I remember why fancy titles don't make a man.
Simply put, the racial content adds to current features in the game, both for gameplay and variety.
Weaponry, vehicles, and maps made to be different and unique would hardly be a bane to the community as a whole.
While you're so pointedly picking out key phrases in Mr.True's statement you ignore the welcome change such things could bring.
And that dear CPM, is the mark of shortsighted fool.
Even as I joke and jab I'd very much like for this world to improve, these changes don't need to be immediate, but they are important.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
10298
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 00:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
That was back when Dust was developed by a different set of teams. Ever since Fanfest 2014, the leadership behind Dust development changed and is now under the care of three people so far: CCP Rattati, CCP Logibro, and CCP Frame as far as I can tell. This means priorities have changed. If we ever do see those nice additions come to the game, I wouldn't bet on them coming any sooner than a few years.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
533
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 00:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:That was back when Dust was developed by a different set of teams. Ever since Fanfest 2014, the leadership behind Dust development changed and is now under the care of three people so far: CCP Rattati, CCP Logibro, and CCP Frame as far as I can tell. This means priorities have changed. If we ever do see those nice additions come to the game, I wouldn't bet on them coming any sooner than a few years.
We saw some nice additions in 1.9.
Who is to say that more won't follow?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
10298
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 01:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:That was back when Dust was developed by a different set of teams. Ever since Fanfest 2014, the leadership behind Dust development changed and is now under the care of three people so far: CCP Rattati, CCP Logibro, and CCP Frame as far as I can tell. This means priorities have changed. If we ever do see those nice additions come to the game, I wouldn't bet on them coming any sooner than a few years. We saw some nice additions in 1.9. Who is to say that more won't follow?
I didn't say more won't follow. It's how long it will take for them to get here that I'm wondering.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
6068
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 01:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:That was back when Dust was developed by a different set of teams. Ever since Fanfest 2014, the leadership behind Dust development changed and is now under the care of three people so far: CCP Rattati, CCP Logibro, and CCP Frame as far as I can tell. This means priorities have changed. If we ever do see those nice additions come to the game, I wouldn't bet on them coming any sooner than a few years. We saw some nice additions in 1.9. Who is to say that more won't follow? I didn't say more won't follow. It's how long it will take for them to get here that I'm wondering.
Soon TM
Really, if you think about it, you asked for it.
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 01:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:And that dear CPM, is the mark of shortsighted fool.
Shortsighted would be someone who can't get over a presentation from two years ago, and has CCP waste months of effort for minimal to nonexistent gains.
I am not saying it would be bad to have them. I am saying it would be a waste of time compared to more beneficial efforts.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Sinboto Simmons
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
6540
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 02:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Sinboto Simmons wrote:And that dear CPM, is the mark of shortsighted fool. Shortsighted would be someone who can't get over a presentation from two years ago, and has CCP waste months of effort for minimal to nonexistent gains. I am not saying it would be bad to have them. I am saying it would be a waste of time compared to more beneficial efforts.
You realise that both your cutting out of key statements and general 'brush off' way of communication invites confrontation yes?
As previously stated, the additional content would have a positive impact, a larger impact than you seem to believe.
Understandable that other features take priorities, smart, but to actively dismiss the past will always lead to even greater problems that could have been avoided in the future.
Current situations could be used as an example. Apologies for the hash words, however the previous statement remains true.
Progress has been made swiftly, hardly before the ceiling cracked under hail.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Perhaps it is not me underestimating the impact, and more you underestimating the required investment.
Additionally, nobody in this thread has come up with gameplay benefits to adding any of these things. "New/shiny!" is basically the strategy of the original development. Putting things into the game without any idea how they should work in relation to everything else. (See HAVs, cloaks, etc.) This was dumb. What this thread seems to be asking for, is more of what got DUST into such a bad place to begin with.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Ghural
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
333
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 02:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't get why the CPM is so defensive of CCP. Surely asking them to follow through on their promises is appropriate.
Not everything needs to have an huge benefit to gameplay, take the new moods for example, they don't enable any "new gameplay" but they do add to immersion and the visual enjoyment of the game, two things which do actually matter and are worth the development time. |
Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1322
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like that frame system. I can see how SMG turns into ACR
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ghural wrote:Surely asking them to follow through on their promises is appropriate.
Neither Rattati nor Rouge promised these things. And idiotic promises are idiotic.
Ghural wrote:Not everything needs to have an huge benefit to gameplay, take the new moods for example, they don't enable any "new gameplay" but they do add to immersion and the visual enjoyment of the game, two things which do actually matter and are worth the development time.
The moods were already done. (I think.) This is concept art that would have to be built for scratch for the game.
Between a game mode and a racial vehicle, what would add more enjoyment to your day? Between a port to a newer platform and racial parity for MCCs? These are probably fair comparisons of the scope of effort and cost required. If CCP asks me "Hey, we've got this money and these devs, what should we work on?", my answer is not going to be "racial parity".
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Sinboto Simmons
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
6540
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 03:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
*sighs* I'm fully aware of the time and investment required, and as I learn the craft myself painfully so.
If you want feedback and ideas simply ask, I've little interaction with you in the past but from what I've seen here most of your communication has amounted to 'this is why you're wrong, now go away' while largely ignoring a bulk of opinions from other players.
If you wish I'll personally make the thread, but your 'tone' doesn't make conversation pleasant, to say the least.
To put it plainly, you're asking without giving, it's not something that's healthy for constructive thought.
You want reasons, I'll supply them along with a place to debate, be sure to meet halfway.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
175
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 03:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:I believe you can only attain a true and meaningful sense of balance when all core racial content is in the game. True: Again, what content does the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs provide? "Racial content" is nonsense, because racial versions in themselves, provide no content. If there are ways they are different from existing versions, then perhaps you have content.
I think he's referring to the lack of Amarr/Minmatar Vehicles along with the missing 2 heavy weapons |
Ghural
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
333
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Ghural wrote:Surely asking them to follow through on their promises is appropriate. Neither Rattati nor Rouge promised these things. And idiotic promises are idiotic. Ghural wrote:Not everything needs to have an huge benefit to gameplay, take the new moods for example, they don't enable any "new gameplay" but they do add to immersion and the visual enjoyment of the game, two things which do actually matter and are worth the development time. The moods were already done. (I think.) This is concept art that would have to be built for scratch for the game. Between a game mode and a racial vehicle, what would add more enjoyment to your day? Between a port to a newer platform and racial parity for MCCs? These are probably fair comparisons of the scope of effort and cost required. If CCP asks me "Hey, we've got this money and these devs, what should we work on?", my answer is not going to be "racial parity".
CCP made those promises. Blaming individuals is idiotic since they act with the approval of the overall management. The same company is still in charge.
We have been shown the other things at versions stages of development but have no idea how far along they are really. They could be almost good to go. Or nowhere near it. How do we find out? People like the OP ask.
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
937
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 03:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:Rattati has said he doesn't feel about to some extent to previous promises and obligations made by his predecessors and instead prefers to look into number fixes.....or something along those lines. I would not say Rattati prefers number fixes over previous content promises. What I would say, is he prefers things that make the game better over previous content promises. For instance, can anyone theorize what the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs would do to benefit gameplay? Would they make gameplay more fun? I understand there are some racial purists, like True here, but I don't believe in racial parity for racial parity's sake personally. I want game mechanics. I want gameplay. If something is going to add gameplay that is equal or greater to the cost and time it will take CCP to put it in, let's do it. But if it's just going to add "one more thing" without making the game fun, then it's pointless, and CCP can better use that time and money doing something else. Just because "something was promised" doesn't mean it's actually the best choice or direction for the game. Especially when it was promised by people who did a terrible job making decisions about the direction for the game. o_o
There's something called immersion. Perhaps you've heard of it.
I personally don't need racial parity, but it would be nice.
Graphical representations of opposing factions would be expected of a game like Dust 514. It has a rich history to draw from (Eve Online). Not to mention player generated content. Having these non essential things is a sign of a well developed game.
You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ghural wrote:CCP made those promises. Blaming individuals is idiotic since they act with the approval of the overall management. The same company is still in charge.
The level of management who approves such decisions is not the people running the game now.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Kayla Michael
Tactical Logistics and Cargo
Northern Associates.
29
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hopefully not for Legion.
I want DUST to have these first. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
1290
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 04:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Perhaps it is not me underestimating the impact, and more you underestimating the required investment.
Additionally, nobody in this thread has come up with gameplay benefits to adding any of these things. "New/shiny!" is basically the strategy of the original development. Putting things into the game without any idea how they should work in relation to everything else. (See HAVs, cloaks, etc.) This was dumb. What this thread seems to be asking for, is more of what got DUST into such a bad place to begin with.
What's with all the hostility?
I've always shown respect to CPM members.
Why are you attributing ill-motive to me and my thread?
Every single one of your posts in this thread so far seems to be coming off of some kind of condescending handle.
My OP was not made in a spirit of entitlement or demand.
It was however, made in ignorance. Hence why I asked questions. Were these originally planned additions, things that we would see in Dust or not?
Perhaps the emboldened and underlined text gave the wrong impression? lol
(EDIT: Apparently, there is some kind underlying tone of negativity on the forums. So special effort must be made for a post to be understood in a benign nature. Post text updated.)
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Ghural
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
334
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 04:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
And yet Soyara you haven't come up with a good enough reason why we can't have some of the things the OP suggested. We all know that things like PVE is never coming to Dust. But The fact that you personally don't want something like racial MMCs doesn't mean others don't, and isn't in itself a good enough reason for CCP not to consider it.
Unless of course you are their sole customer, in which case please continue to act like yours is the sole opinion that matters. |
Symbioticforks
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
937
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Trying to get off my condescending handle right now.
You know sniping is bad when even I refuse to do it.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:What's with all the hostility?
I'm not hostile. I'm not "attributing ill-motive" to you.
Why is telling you the request is a bad idea "hostile"?
And with regards to your thread edit, you might notice I was responding to True Adamance, not you. ;) I did intend to answer general questions about the thread, but a lot of my posts in the thread have been in response to other people.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1290
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jathniel wrote:What's with all the hostility? I'm not hostile. I'm not "attributing ill-motive" to you. Why is telling you the request is a bad idea "hostile"? And with regards to your thread edit, you might notice I was responding to True Adamance, not you. ;) I did intend to answer general questions about the thread, but a lot of my posts in the thread have been in response to other people.
Well, hostility was the impression I got from your responses to other people (I can see how Sinboto may have seemed to be rubbing you the wrong way, but even he warned you that your verbiage was "inviting confrontation".)
Especially...
Soraya Xel wrote:
Shortsighted would be someone who can't get over a presentation from two years ago, and has CCP waste months of effort for minimal to nonexistent gains.
Your responding to his veiled insult, by pretty much insulting everyone that actually cared to see these additions?
Look, I just wanted to ask Rattati a few questions, not start a fire.
Namely, if he knew about these previous concepts and if bringing them to Dust was still in the cards. That's all. I wasn't "requesting" anything else but information. How is that a bad idea?
Look man, I'm just going drop it. I'm sorry dude.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
152
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Posted - 2014.11.22 05:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Perhaps it is not me underestimating the impact, and more you underestimating the required investment.
Additionally, nobody in this thread has come up with gameplay benefits to adding any of these things. "New/shiny!" is basically the strategy of the original development. Putting things into the game without any idea how they should work in relation to everything else. (See HAVs, cloaks, etc.) This was dumb. What this thread seems to be asking for, is more of what got DUST into such a bad place to begin with.
So new content is bad and CCP should focus on "balancing" the content that is currently in the game? |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 06:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Avinash Decker wrote:So new content is ill advised and should not be considered right now, and CCP should focus on "balancing" the content that is currently in the game? Is it not possible for the company to consider how will to integrate new content well not breaking the game?
I didn't say that. Content should be added if it's benefits to gameplay is worth the cost of implementation.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4797
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 06:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jathniel, I have no problem with you asking the status of these things. And I think I probably covered the answer in there.
My primary nerve people struck was this "But CCP promised me!" line a few people spouted. Because it's juvenile. CCP never said "I pinky promise this stuff is going to be in the game." And about half the stuff CCP has shown at Fanfest in the last ten years has never actually happened. Not to mention it's a completely different studio that made that presentation for all intents and purposes.
If people have thoughts on why such and such is important to get into the game, that's worthwhile feedback. But the "But CCP promised me" comments will incur ire.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
5029
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Posted - 2014.11.22 08:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:I believe you can only attain a true and meaningful sense of balance when all core racial content is in the game. True: Again, what content does the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs provide? "Racial content" is nonsense, because racial versions in themselves, provide no content. If there are ways they are different from existing versions, then perhaps you have content.
Assuming they could be piloted, or boarded and destroyed from the inside, then quite a bit I wager.
On a more realistic front however, then there might be other designable differences regarding future gameplay.
If more ways of damaging an MCC are created, and each MCC had different amounts of shield/armor along with their own racial resistances, one might consider the additional MCC's to be valid content.
And truthfully, even a piece of background is still observable content, even if the interaction is minimal. Somebody spent the time to make those weird amarr structures in the background of the toxic mood. That wasn't necessary. They could've made the Amarr MCC instead. A choice was made there, and a questionable one.
It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2547
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 09:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:Rattati has said he doesn't feel about to some extent to previous promises and obligations made by his predecessors and instead prefers to look into number fixes.....or something along those lines. I would not say Rattati prefers number fixes over previous content promises. What I would say, is he prefers things that make the game better over previous content promises. For instance, can anyone theorize what the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs would do to benefit gameplay? Would they make gameplay more fun? I understand there are some racial purists, like True here, but I don't believe in racial parity for racial parity's sake personally. I want game mechanics. I want gameplay. If something is going to add gameplay that is equal or greater to the cost and time it will take CCP to put it in, let's do it. But if it's just going to add "one more thing" without making the game fun, then it's pointless, and CCP can better use that time and money doing something else. Just because "something was promised" doesn't mean it's actually the best choice or direction for the game. Especially when it was promised by people who did a terrible job making decisions about the direction for the game. o_o
IF we could board the enemy MCC and there was a game mode where we eventually took the battle to the MCC`s (think BF2142 Titan mode) then HELL YES we would need the other 2 races MCC'`s.
However being realistic here, unless we have actual features and gameplay around them, no we really dont need those right now. I would love however to see full racial lineups for the vehicles and weapons (specifically heavy weapons).
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4799
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Posted - 2014.11.22 17:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:That being said I think it would do the game and the community a whole world of good the sooner CCP can at least give some sort of basic roadmap for the future of DUST 514. Also any roadmap they can share about Legion.
We all appreciate the recent updates and stuff but we are very curious and cautious about the future for these games.
I fully agree. I hope CCP will share some of this information soon.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4685
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 17:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
Wilhelm Klingspor wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:We should be getting the other MCC's and knives in DUST, I honestly can't see why not. I know, it's just a 3d model right? I remember thinking " It will surely be in 1.2 " i mean why bother wit lore, races and the whole One universe mallarky when you're a gallente jumping out of a Caldari Mcc, don't get me started on FW. It's a damn shame, thats what it is.
Every race using a Caldari Warbarge with th Caldari banner flowing on top.
Disgusting. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
10301
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 17:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nn8ThFVx-1E/UNpz1SuKVhI/AAAAAAAAAcM/chIi-cPGRxk/s640/dust+514+rogue+drone+2.png
Hold on a second...
Is that a shotgun hooked up to the drone on the right?
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
10301
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 17:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Perhaps it is not me underestimating the impact, and more you underestimating the required investment.
Additionally, nobody in this thread has come up with gameplay benefits to adding any of these things. "New/shiny!" is basically the strategy of the original development. Putting things into the game without any idea how they should work in relation to everything else. (See HAVs, cloaks, etc.) This was dumb. What this thread seems to be asking for, is more of what got DUST into such a bad place to begin with.
I don't think that was the original intent on the part of the OP. I do agree that slapping on a new shiny is not what improves or benefits the game. It's how you implement that shiny that does.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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LowerThan SnakeShip
The Scope
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.11.22 17:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
heres a compromise make racial mcc then make them able to be boarded |
Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
153
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 18:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Avinash Decker wrote:So new content is ill advised and should not be considered right now, and CCP should focus on "balancing" the content that is currently in the game? Is it not possible for the company to consider how will to integrate new content well not breaking the game? I didn't say that. Content should be added if it's benefits to gameplay is worth the cost of implementation.
What new content would you suggest? |
Sigourney Reever
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
50
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 19:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
attempting to bring things back on topic, way to derail things CPM..
Almost certainly not possible for dust, probably not on the table for Legion (given CCPs track record across all their properties)
As far as Racial Parity for vehicles, multiple other threads are proposing we use the existing models with different HP profiles and bonuses to mimic what would be a new model for HAV, LAV and DS. Take the MAV off the table unless there's a single model of it working, then add 4 variations again using just color and database changes.
Realistically, all that is needed that is NEW NEW and not just tweaked existing assets are the small and large turrets, 4 total items (small laser, small artillery, large laser, large artillery)
A Laser Turret is a direct LoS weapon, so no redesign of mechanics there, use the Rail Turret's mechanics. Just a new turret model and animation (which we've seen redesigns of both in the new plasma and mass driver effects)
A simple color change would go a long way to looking past the lack of a new laser turret model..
An Artillery Turret would be really really fun i think if an arcing mechanic similar to the Mass Driver was used, Its probably the bulk of any work down this line of thinking. But again, not a completely new thing, mostly an iteration on existing systems.
This seems less important to me personally, it'd be as complex as adding any new weapons, again something that's been done plenty of times since Dust development um, 'was reconfigured'
Again, simply coming up with stats that fit the profiles of each race, modifying the colors of existing models and calling it 'ammar HAV' would most likely be better than having nothing at all. Especially if the new turrets were added, a little would go a long way.
Obviously this is beyond CCPs capabilities. While we've seen animations and stills, we've never seen anything approaching gameplay, in Dust or Legion..
So the end sum of NEW NEW work (beyond mostly copy/paste tweaked versions of existing assets/models/skills) to add Full Racial Parity for all Vehicles is the creation of 2 new weapon processes, each with a small and large variant.
We've seen the same thing happen with the MagSMG and RR effectively. It took what, 2-4 months?
Given that this is a shorter amount of time than it seems to take to develop a single new map, I'd say it sounds like a great way to add a large amount of content which in turn will change gameplay for all players.
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GRIMm grin
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
These would be awesome additions but your going about it the wrong way getting angry and insulting the devs won't change anything me personally you ask me to do something while insulting me and I wouldn't do a **** thing but if you said why this would be a good idea and tried to help with ideas and showed support things might go better for one I think this is a fantastic game yes things have been broken but honestly I couldn't think of ways to fix them it is a challenging venture that requires quite a bit of resources but the whole point of this post quit insulting the developers bring ideas to the table the more of us that support a idea the more likely things are to change I mean who doesn't want to see new turrets? And jets **** YES that would be amazing not to mention that sexy modular weapon system that looks AMAZING |
Ghural
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
338
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 21:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
Soraya's argument basically came down to, "I don't want it, therefor it's not content".
He completely overlooks that there is no strict definition for "content" and it means different things to different people, and that his role on the CPM does not entitle him to be the sole definer of what is "content".
And the whole "well if you want it, come up with a gameplay reason for it" is getting old, some of this stuff has been talked about for years and gameplay reasons already suggested.
There is very little else we can do other than like the OP did, which was to ask if these things were still a possibility. |
Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
186
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
I would consider the remaining tanks, dropships and turrents additional and usefull content.
They would not only bring racial representation and more immersion i.e. why would only the Gallente and the Caldari have the tech to build dropships?
But they would possibly add extra dynamics to the game e.g a minmatar dropship quicker than the existing ones but less shield and Armour.... (I dont know if thats a good idea as I dont fly them but you get what i mean?)
Again if these Legion will be released it should have this parity from the start not part finished the way dust was/is.
CCP doesn't need our approval (or does it, is our continued custom actually that approval?) but it would be nice to see where the product is heading or something that represents CCP's overall vision for the game(s).
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14941
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 00:01:00 -
[58] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:I believe you can only attain a true and meaningful sense of balance when all core racial content is in the game. True: Again, what content does the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs provide? "Racial content" is nonsense, because racial versions in themselves, provide no content. If there are ways they are different from existing versions, then perhaps you have content.
MCC nothing but LAV, HAV, DS.
If nothing else the MCC provides a fair racial depiction. Mechanically it does nothing but there is not reason as consumers we should expect a half finished game....
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Grimmiers
720
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 00:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:True Adamance wrote:Rattati has said he doesn't feel about to some extent to previous promises and obligations made by his predecessors and instead prefers to look into number fixes.....or something along those lines. I would not say Rattati prefers number fixes over previous content promises. What I would say, is he prefers things that make the game better over previous content promises. For instance, can anyone theorize what the Amarr and Minmatar MCCs would do to benefit gameplay? Would they make gameplay more fun? I understand there are some racial purists, like True here, but I don't believe in racial parity for racial parity's sake personally. I want game mechanics. I want gameplay. If something is going to add gameplay that is equal or greater to the cost and time it will take CCP to put it in, let's do it. But if it's just going to add "one more thing" without making the game fun, then it's pointless, and CCP can better use that time and money doing something else. Just because "something was promised" doesn't mean it's actually the best choice or direction for the game. Especially when it was promised by people who did a terrible job making decisions about the direction for the game. o_o
That commander mode would be great and that would be best with all racial mcc's
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Lynn Beck
Delta Vanguard 6
2288
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 00:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nn8ThFVx-1E/UNpz1SuKVhI/AAAAAAAAAcM/chIi-cPGRxk/s640/dust+514+rogue+drone+2.png
Hold on a second...
Is that a shotgun hooked up to the drone on the right?
No it's a sci-fi HEMI V6 engine, with the output being a flamethrower(aka the "exhaust")
In all seriousness, it probably isn't. We all know Scouts are the only thing that can fit Shotties.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
2611
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 06:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jathniel, I have no problem with you asking the status of these things. And I think I probably covered the answer in there.
My primary nerve people struck was this "But CCP promised me!" line a few people spouted. Because it's juvenile. CCP never said "I pinky promise this stuff is going to be in the game." And about half the stuff CCP has shown at Fanfest in the last ten years has never actually happened. Not to mention it's a completely different studio that made that presentation for all intents and purposes.
If people have thoughts on why such and such is important to get into the game, that's worthwhile feedback. But the "But CCP promised me" comments will incur ire.
So here's the deal:
1. Legion needs racial parity from day 1, otherwise it will launch and feel "unfinished" like DUST did.
2. It is impossible for CCP to balance vehicles without the players' help. I don't care if they had a team of 200 genius developers, this is too complex to sort out on a whiteboard. If they dumb things down to where it could be balanced on a whiteboard without extensive player testing and feedback then they will be throwing out something very special about this game and really limiting the long-term appeal.
3. Because of this, it is imperative to add the missing racial vehicles (and capacitors) to DUST so they can be balanced in the same iterative hotfix process as infantry mechanics have. The numbers can be cut/pasted into Legion and it will be ready to hit the ground running at launch.
4. This will allow for Legion's beta to focus on the numerous other issues that will surely crop up (PvE, AI, etc.), instead of trying to triage lots of different areas at once. It will result in a much better release with better reviews, which translates into massive profits and solidifies the future of mercs on the ground in New Eden.
THIS STUFF SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRIORITY 1 FOR THE LEGION TEAM--WAY before f*cking burning trees, pretty orbital effects in the skybox, shiny texture reflection crap etc. If it's not close to being ready, then CCP Rouge is horribly misallocating his resources and priorities. We need to get full racial parity into the game as quickly as possible so we can start balancing it. It's going to take time, a lot of it; that's why it's so urgent that we get started now. Look how long it's taken to get dropsuit balance after the 1.8 introduction of racial parity (still not finished, though much better than before).
You asked if this was a higher priority over other game modes, I think it is 1000x more important. This would change gameplay in many new and interesting ways. And no, adding color textures on the existing vehicle assets doesn't cut it. When I approach an enemy tank in a night-mood or stormy mood I shouldn't have to wonder if that's a Caldari rail tank or an Amarr beam laser tank. I shouldn't have to wait for them to shoot at me before I figure that out. That is a pathetic and hacky solution.
If I were CCP Rouge, I would do the following:
1. Add 1.10 with capacitor mechanics (reusing code from the stamina system) and redesign vehicles based on how they were in 1.6 with tweaks. I would also add pilot suits using light frame skins with unique colors.
2. Add 1.11 with full racial parity: missing vehicles, turrets, and the 2 missing heavy weapons. I would begin adding Ewar tools (e.g. neut grenades, webs, etc.).
Not only would this reinvigorate the player base, and keep them optimistic for the future of DUST (increased immediate revenue), it would also begin the process of balancing for Legion. DUST development IS Legion development. DUST balance IS Legion balance.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4802
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 15:55:00 -
[62] - Quote
Grimmiers wrote:That commander mode would be great and that would be best with all racial mcc's
Mmmm, I would love that battle commander role thing.
Vell0cet wrote:If I were CCP Rouge, I would do the following:
[...1.10 and 1.11 stuff...]
CCP Rattati is the one who is developing DUST stuff. He is deciding what to do in DUST based on what is best for DUST, not what is best for Legion.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Sigourney Reever
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
50
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 16:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Grimmiers wrote:That commander mode would be great and that would be best with all racial mcc's
Mmmm, I would love that battle commander role thing. Vell0cet wrote:If I were CCP Rouge, I would do the following:
[...1.10 and 1.11 stuff...] CCP Rattati is the one who is developing DUST stuff. He is deciding what to do in DUST based on what is best for DUST, not what is best for Legion.
and... ?
you're not exactly being a facilitator for discussion or constructive communication in this thread. |
Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
2611
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 19:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Vell0cet wrote:If I were CCP Rouge, I would do the following:
[...1.10 and 1.11 stuff...] CCP Rattati is the one who is developing DUST stuff. He is deciding what to do in DUST based on what is best for DUST, not what is best for Legion.
I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that CCP Rouge would be the one to make the call about developing racial vehicle models, turrets, heavy weapons and capacitors etc. I think what's best for DUST IS what's best for Legion. I really don't see a distinction.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Ghural
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
340
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 07:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
I'd imagine the way it would work would be that there would be a meeting where various proposals for Dust are discussed as well as their relative merits and "dev time" required, with input with various stakeholders including the CPM, and from these discussions a decision is made. |
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