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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11623
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Posted - 2014.11.19 18:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
A long while ago logis were on the list of things that needed a serious overhaul, Rattati had spreadsheets and plans of slot normalization, but ultimately nothing came of it. It really needs to be fixed though, because it's pretty ridiculous. I haven't been able to play Dust in months because of certain real life situations, so I didn't feel I'm qualified to be talking about such large issues, but none of it has changed since last I played, and just knowing nothing change makes me feel this compulsion to speak out about it. I will explain what the problem is below.
STANDARD
AM logi: 4 module slots total, 2 equipment, and 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 2 module slots total, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 3 module slots total, 2 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 4 module slots total, 3 equipment, no sidearm.
In case the problem is not obvious right there, I will compare the standard logis with the racial equivalents:
The Minmatar and Amarr logis have a huge advantage over the others; they each start with 4 module slots. The Minmatar one has more equipment than the Amarr one, but the Amarr one has a sidearm.
The Caldari one only has 3 modules, but why? it doesn't gain anything in exchange for having less modules, it has only 2 equipment, and no sidearms. The Amarr logi by comparison has the same number of equipment, but more module slots, and gets a sidearm. Caldari logi is screwed and standard tier.
The Gallente one is also awful. Only 2 module slots? sure it has 3 equipment slots, but the Minmatar one also has 3 equipment slots, AND gets 4 module slots. The Gallente logi is screwed at standard tier.
ADVANCED
AM logi: 6 module slots tortal, 3 equipment, 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 5 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 3 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 6 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
Advanced logis comparison.
At advanced tier, Amarr logi is clearly the best logi. 6 modules, 3 equipment, and 1 sidearm.
Minmatar is in 2nd place, the only difference between the Minmatar and the Amarr logi is the lack of sidearm.
Both Gallente and Caldari are downright inferior at advanced. Only 5 modules, same number of equipment as the inferior logis, and no sidearm.
PROTOTYPE
AM logi: 7 module slots tortal, 3 equipment, 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 8 module slots, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 9 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 8 module slots, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
Prototype logis comparison.
The Gallente and Minmatar logis are the norm with 8 modules, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
At standard tier the Amarr logi started out as one of the 2 best logis, but at prototype level it's probably the worst. It has a sidearm, but at the cost of having less equipment AND having less modules. Basically the Amarr sacrifices twice for the sidearm when ideally it should only have to sacrifice once (either 1 less module OR 1 less equipment, but not both penalties). It should also be noted that the only difference between the advanced and prototype Amarr logis is just 1 module slot.
The Caldari logi started with only 3 module slots at standard, yet at prototype it has 9 module slots. While 9 module slots can be considered balanced because it is a the cost of having less equipment than the GA and MN logis, it does make progression very strange.
[SOLUTION]: my proposals are intentionally general and not specific because I don't feel like making a spreadsheets, and this thread is more about calling attention to the issue again. I also don't want to get in a lengthy debate about the specifics.
Logis don't necessarily have to be placed in a very rigid progression system, but just give them the same number of total slots for a certain tier. By this I mean when you add up light weapon slot, sidearm slot, grenade slot, equipment slots, module slots (highs and lows) for logis of the same tier, you should get the same total number. This gives a lot of leeway, and allows some logis to have sidearms, or have more modules or equipment than others, but in an ultimately balanced way.
Be consistent. Don't have a certain racial logi start out completely superior in every way just to have them be inferior at prototype, or have a logi start out with poor module slot count just to have them have the most module slots at prototype.
Minmatar logi should be seen as a shining example for progression between tiers, and for being competent slot counts.
If anyone doesn't think there is a problem, go compare a standard Gallente logi to a Minmatar one.
@Rattati: any plans to have another try at this?
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
13823
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think Logis of all tiers should have 3-4 equipment slots depending on their race.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
3
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quick opinion: start all races at 3eq, and 4 mods, no sidearm.
Ga:1/3
Min/amarr:2/2
Cal:3/1
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
822
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Couple of logi threads yesterday, where I ventured the idea of going as high as five equipment slots; and making it sytematics between tiers (i.e. 3/4/5 for all logis). Combat effectiveness also needs to be (should be?) re-worked or re-thought. Do they need grenades? Should they all get sidearms?
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
3
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:Couple of logi threads yesterday, where I ventured the idea of going as high as five equipment slots; and making it sytematics between tiers (i.e. 3/4/5 for all logis). Combat effectiveness also needs to be (should be?) re-worked or re-thought. Do they need grenades? Should they all get sidearms?
i think the sidearm is unnecessary, and is a fair sacrafice for the extra equipment, that being said the deffinatly need to have a speed boost, and probably an ehp boost. |
I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5117
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just make the slot progression the same as their assault counterparts
Give the Amarr 1 less slot on each tier IF you keep the sidearm
/thread
The reason Rattati gave up on this was because everyone kept fighting over the whole Amarr sidearm debate and wouldn't actually talk about the changes because everyone pretty much agreed on it.
But Rattati ALSO proposed to nerf logi speed, and to change up the number of equipment slots per tier, and do all this other random crap that wasn't necessary at all.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11625
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Just make the slot progression the same as their assault counterparts
Give the Amarr 1 less slot on each tier IF you keep the sidearm
/thread
That's pretty much what I would suggest if I was going to propose something specific.
+1
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Ku Shala
The Generals
1019
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
. same H/L slots as an assault ( they re both mediums right?) 10 % less base ehp(than assault),3 std,3 adv, 4proto(5 equips is n/a) equip for all suits amarr then loses sidearm,adjust the cpu/pg ,base speed should be slower than assault race specific but running speed should be almost the same since soonGäó you will not be able to switch roles during combat so logis must be able to escape large engagments (no sidearm).
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)
Caldari Loyalist
*Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
329
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Posted - 2014.11.19 20:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
 Patience, fellas.
Uprising 1.9 was an interesting surprise, and I think also a turning point that got some serious luggage out of the way, and proved something in CCP (something they won't discuss with us, because it's their private company business).
Whatever was behind it, I think 1.9 is being considered enough of an acheivement, and that's why CCP is now buzzing up on every discussion regarding Equipment-control, team-versus-squad data, detection of vehicles in HUD scanning, and Logi vehicle reintroduction.
...It's very close. Logistics is finally the next target being worked on now. Finally.
I have spent the last six visits to the game, JUST re-visiting and re-assessing my artificer-gear and my (quasi)-logi fit-outs I was using on my vehcles. No combat whatsoever... just sweeping the equipment cobwebs out of my fittings menu. Because I can taste it. The "Logistics" return is now being dev-ed. No 'soon' ... it's inally NOW.
The patience has paid off. Now we only have to keep cross-fingers that we don't "request-list" the poor devs right into fouling it all up, LOL!!
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
134
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Posted - 2014.11.20 00:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:*snipped amazing awesomely written and well-reasoned post*
I do agree completely- in terms of internal class balance, the Amarr and Minmatar Logis are superior at STD and ADV level, with Gallente and Minmatar edging out at PRO, with Caldari giving a good showing and Amarr falling behind.
Incidentally, Amarr slot layout has been a pet peeve of mine for a while now.
I'd also like to point out that in terms of inter-class balance, the Caldari and Amarr actually get shafted- the Caldari is blatantly inferior to any scout suit for equipment usage given that it has such a terrible slot layout at STD- and ADV- and only two equip slots at STD, with nothing to compensate whatsoever.
The Amarr Logi also ends up being a slower, less-stealthy Amarr Scout at STD, as they have the same module/equipment count, but the AmLogi has an inferior slot layout for the intended tanking method (armor).
But as Shayz suggested in this post:
I-Shayz-I wrote:Just make the slot progression the same as their assault counterparts
Give the Amarr 1 less slot on each tier IF you keep the sidearm
/thread
The easy solution is to simply normalize the slots with the assault suits. Funnily enough, the Minmatar Logi already does this, and at PRO level so to does the GalLogi.
Also, give the CalLogi a 4th equipment slot to compensate for the loss of that mysterious 4th low if the layout is normalized with the assault suits.
Given that the Amarr Logi is somewhat my preferred suit, I'd also like to offer the following:
KEEP THE SIDEARM slot. To compensate for this, the suit should lose either ONE (1) module slot, or ONE (1) equipment slot- but by no means should it lose both.
As to which it should lose... I can see arguments to be made for either case, though I would recommend that it lose a high slot rather than a low, considering that the relative lack of low slots on the Amarr Logi is already an issue.
So is terrible PG value, but that's a separate issue.
sabre prime wrote:Couple of logi threads yesterday, where I ventured the idea of going as high as five equipment slots; and making it sytematic between tiers (i.e. 3/4/5 for all logis). Combat effectiveness also needs to be re-worked or re-thought. Do they need grenades? Should they all get sidearms?
I will now share my deep dark wish of logi-ness:
Amarr Logi has a sidearm and four equipment slots. The other three get no sidearm, but get a whopping SIX equipment slots. Your mind is now blown.
Insofar as combat effectiveness, I am personally a proponent that logis should be subpar for direct engagement compared to, say, an assault/sentinel/commando, but a logi should by all means be completely capable of shooting other players in the face to good effect- it's just that it's an inefficient choice for that task, and you gain greater ability to shoot stuff in the face by using a different suit.
korrah silain wrote:Quick opinion: start all races at 3eq, and 4 mods, no sidearm.
Ga:1/3
Min/amarr:2/2
Cal:3/1
I hate you.
Mostly because you think that the Amarr Logi should keep it's asinine 2/2, 3/3, 3/4 slot layout, instead of retooling it to, for example, 1/3, 2/4, 2/5.
If you come back with something like "blah stupid blah Gallente best armor blah stupid", then I will lambaste your idiocy as to the appropriate tanking methods used by the races of New Eden.
Anyone who even slightly played EVE knows that Amarr are the armor brick race, the Gallente the armor rep race, with Caldari being shield brick and Minmatar being speed/shield regen, with a little bit of armor on the side.
You should now feel smarter after being enlightened as to the nature of proper racial tanking methods in New Eden.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
824
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Posted - 2014.11.20 00:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
^ Six equipment slots is too much. The reason I said five is because equipment should be the dominant slots on a logi suit; it's what they do. Also, CCP devs have said that five equipment slots were intended, but the game just can't support them right now. I think it requires new code.
Also, the Amarr logi could have fouir equipment slot and have a sidearm that is only unlocked at proto.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4638
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Posted - 2014.11.20 03:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Great post. +1
BTW, the reason the Amarr logi is so much better at ADV (and relatively so at STD) is because originally only the proto suit had the sidearm. That was silly so when they fixed the Amarr suit (remember the 20 total PG at STD? Lol) they put the sidearm on all of them without doing anything else to the total slot count. Thus the STD and ADV logis don't sacrifice 2 slots for sidearm, only 1.
Shayz has it right, /thread for me too.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
134
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Posted - 2014.11.20 04:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:^ Six equipment slots is too much.
How so? Mostly I ask because the idea was initially "hmm, wouldn't it be interesting if..."
sabre prime wrote:The reason I said five is because equipment should be the dominant slots on a logi suit; it's what they do. Also, CCP devs have said that five equipment slots were intended, but the game just can't support them right now. I think it requires new code.
I wonder what exactly the technical limitations (besides UI) are that prevent five equipment slots from being used.
sabre prime wrote:Also, the Amarr logi could have fouir equipment slot and have a sidearm that is only unlocked at proto.
Heh, that's a cute joke right there.
Don't ever say it again.
Seriously though, I personally would hate that; the defining feature of the Amarr Logi is the fact that it has a sidearm- only being able to gain said sidearm at PRO level would be asinine.
There's a reason that CCP changed that to how it is now.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1242
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Posted - 2014.11.20 05:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:^ Six equipment slots is too much. The reason I said five is because equipment should be the dominant slots on a logi suit; it's what they do. Also, CCP devs have said that five equipment slots were intended, but the game just can't support them right now. I think it requires new code.
Also, the Amarr logi could have fouir equipment slot and have a sidearm that is only unlocked at proto.
yes its maxed there.
if the game was balanced properly and everything was as it should be every suit would have a cap of 8 like ships in eve.
8 highs (mediums in eve) 8 lows
and then 8 slots to distribute among weapons, equipment, and grenades.
so realistically you could have 1 gun 1 side arm 1 grenade and 5 equipment if the fit had all 8 slots unlocked.
or no guns, no grenades, no sidearm and 8 equipment.
idk why they made mediu slots into high slots. instead of just doing this.
make high slots equipment and weapons. and give it weapon hardpoints.
shields and such go back to being called medium slots, and low slots are unchanged.
you may have 8 high slots in eve but only a few turret points. so you cant fit 8 weapons.
do the same here. 1-2 weapon hardpoints a sidearm hardpoint then use the rest for equipment.
they messed the fitting screen up.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Slave of MORTE
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
94
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Posted - 2014.11.20 13:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
korrah silain wrote:sabre prime wrote:Couple of logi threads yesterday, where I ventured the idea of going as high as five equipment slots; and making it sytematics between tiers (i.e. 3/4/5 for all logis). Combat effectiveness also needs to be (should be?) re-worked or re-thought. Do they need grenades? Should they all get sidearms? i think the sidearm is unnecessary, and is a fair sacrafice for the extra equipment, that being said the deffinatly need to have a speed boost, and probably an ehp boost.
Coming from someone who speed tanks the amar logi
It's speed is its greatest weakness ...it can't keep up with the frames it's supporting let alone run ahead with uplinks
Tanked amar logi can't jump a tiny ledge ..
I run my logi with 1 to 2 kinkats and 2 complex reppers as that's the only effective way to get around ..
I think along with a slot re balance ccp should consider raising the speed of all logis ...as it's one if the most useful stats to a support unit ..they need to be able to shadow Thier teammates not struggle to keep up
Also I'm for ccp giving logis ewar abilities I should be able to effectively run precision enhancers on my amar logi ..
Personally ewar and speed is what makes my scogi..outclass my logi..After running amar scogi and amar logi ..i started fitting my logi like a scout to great effect
Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4644
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Posted - 2014.11.20 14:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Slave of MORTE wrote:korrah silain wrote:sabre prime wrote:Couple of logi threads yesterday, where I ventured the idea of going as high as five equipment slots; and making it sytematics between tiers (i.e. 3/4/5 for all logis). Combat effectiveness also needs to be (should be?) re-worked or re-thought. Do they need grenades? Should they all get sidearms? i think the sidearm is unnecessary, and is a fair sacrafice for the extra equipment, that being said the deffinatly need to have a speed boost, and probably an ehp boost. Coming from someone who speed tanks the amar logi It's speed is its greatest weakness ...it can't keep up with the frames it's supporting let alone run ahead with uplinks Tanked amar logi can't jump a tiny ledge .. I run my logi with 1 to 2 kinkats and 2 complex reppers as that's the only effective way to get around .. I think along with a slot re balance ccp should consider raising the speed of all logis ...as it's one if the most useful stats to a support unit ..they need to be able to shadow Thier teammates not struggle to keep up Also I'm for ccp giving logis ewar abilities I should be able to effectively run precision enhancers on my amar logi .. Personally ewar and speed is what makes my scogi..outclass my logi..After running amar scogi and amar logi ..i started fitting my logi like a scout to great effect
IKR? I spend waaay too much time telling sentinels to slow down a second. It's sad, really.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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shaman oga
The Dunwich Horror
3259
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Posted - 2014.11.20 14:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Same assault slot progression should be good, min logi slot progression is the only good one (idk about amarr logi)
Situational awareness commonly called passive scan.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp .
1461
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Posted - 2014.11.20 16:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Good to see you back and posting KHW .
Always nice to see someone without any bias in there approach , people who care about the health of this game are few and far between .
Logic and reasoning is sorely missed in this game .
Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
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Mobius Wyvern
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
5445
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Posted - 2014.11.20 17:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Good to see you back and posting KHW .
Always nice to see someone without any bias in there approach , people who care about the health of this game are few and far between .
Logic and reasoning is sorely missed in this game .
Horned Wolf Best Wolf.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5133
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Posted - 2014.11.20 17:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
bump
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List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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Zaria Min Deir
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
872
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Posted - 2014.11.20 18:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Logistics slot progression is something I really can't forgive Rattati for dropping the ball on, he was already working on it to coincide with the assault slot layout retooling, and then just tossed it aside without another look when he got negative feedback from the community regarding his ideas about sidearms on logis.
It's certainly time (and a half) to fix the entirely asinine, as you have pointed out, slot progression. This doesn't have to be packaged into some magical awesome "fix to all logi issues" hotfix... It just needs to happen, sooner, not later.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
234
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Posted - 2014.11.21 09:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
[quote=KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf]A long while ago logis were on the list of things that needed a serious overhaul, Rattati had spreadsheets and plans of slot normalization, but ultimately nothing came of it. It really needs to be fixed though, because it's pretty ridiculous. I haven't been able to play Dust in months because of certain real life situations, so I didn't feel I'm qualified to be talking about such large issues, but none of it has changed since last I played, and just knowing nothing change makes me feel this compulsion to speak out about it. I will explain what the problem is below.
STANDARD
AM logi: 4 module slots total, 2 equipment, and 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 2 module slots total, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 3 module slots total, 2 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 4 module slots total, 3 equipment, no sidearm.
In case the problem is not obvious right there, I will compare the standard logis with the racial equivalents:
The Minmatar and Amarr logis have a huge advantage over the others; they each start with 4 module slots. The Minmatar one has more equipment than the Amarr one, but the Amarr one has a sidearm.
The Caldari one only has 3 modules, but why? it doesn't gain anything in exchange for having less modules, it has only 2 equipment, and no sidearms. The Amarr logi by comparison has the same number of equipment, but more module slots, and gets a sidearm. Caldari logi is screwed at standard tier.
The Gallente one is also awful. Only 2 module slots? sure it has 3 equipment slots, but the Minmatar one also has 3 equipment slots, AND gets 4 module slots. The Gallente logi is screwed at standard tier.
ADVANCED
AM logi: 6 module slots tortal, 3 equipment, 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 5 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 3 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 6 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
Advanced logis comparison.
At advanced tier, Amarr logi is clearly the best logi. 6 modules, 3 equipment, and 1 sidearm.
Minmatar is in 2nd place, the only difference between the Minmatar and the Amarr logi is the lack of sidearm.
Both Gallente and Caldari are downright inferior at advanced. Only 5 modules, same number of equipment as the inferior logis, and no sidearm.
PROTOTYPE
AM logi: 7 module slots tortal, 3 equipment, 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 8 module slots, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 9 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 8 module slots, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
Prototype logis comparison.
The Gallente and Minmatar logis are the norm with 8 modules, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
At standard tier the Amarr logi started out as one of the 2 best logis, but at prototype level it's probably the worst. It has a sidearm, but at the cost of having less equipment AND having less modules. Basically the Amarr sacrifices twice for the sidearm when ideally it should only have to sacrifice once (either 1 less module OR 1 less equipment, but not both penalties). It should also be noted that the only difference between the advanced and prototype Amarr logis is just 1 module slot.
The Caldari logi started with only 3 module slots at standard, yet at prototype it has 9 module slots. While 9 module slots can be considered balanced because it is a the cost of having less equipment than the GA and MN logis, it does make progression very strange.
[SOLUTION]: my proposals are intentionally general and not specific because I don't feel like making a spreadsheets, and this thread is more about calling attention to the issue again. I also don't want to get in a lengthy debate about the specifics.
Logis don't necessarily have to be placed in a very rigid progression system, but just give them the same number of total slots for a certain tier. By this I mean when you add up light weapon slot, sidearm slot, grenade slot, equipment slots, module slots (highs and lows) for logis of the same tier, you should get the same total number. This gives a lot of leeway, and allows some logis to have sidearms, or have more modules or equipment than others, but in an ultimately balanced way.
Be consistent. Don't have a certain racial logi start out completely superior in every way just to have them be inferior at prototype, or have a logi start out with poor module slot count just to have them have the most module slots at prototype.
Minmatar logi should be seen as a shining example for progression between tiers, and for being competent slot counts.
EDIT: If I were to suggest a specific solution.
I would say to make logi module slots mirror their assault counterparts (proposed in the comments a lot).
The Amarr logi should remain an exception, having 1 less module per tier than it's assault counterpart, but keeping the sidearm in exchange.
All logis should have 3 equipment at standard, 3 at advanced, and 4 at prototype.
These changes would mean that the Caldari logi would have 8 module slots at prototype instead of 9, but in exchange would have more equipment slots at standard and prototype tier.
If anyone doesn't think there is a problem, go compare a standard Gallente logi to a Minmatar one.
The problem I see here is where you don't calculate actual total HP/CPU/PG/Stamina/Stamina Recovery Rate/Movement Speed/Sprint Speed etc. Your solution to give equal module/weapon/equipment based on a tier level must weigh all options of the suit encompassed with racial benefit, as well as the disadvantage. Each logi suit has its advantages, its just a matter of how you use it. Cal logi has its place just as much as gal logi, the same with the min and amarr. Understand that the game has shifted to where each player has been put into a box in terms of suit and weapon cohesion; General use of anything outside this law will be limited to an extent. Every logistics suit is situational, not general in use.
|LOGi GOD|
Director of Fatal Absolution
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11699
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Posted - 2014.12.15 15:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fix it!
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3976
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Posted - 2014.12.15 15:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
I've been harping on making Logi progression match Assault progression for some time now. The Assault progression is very solid, and as you have pointed out, the Logi progression....isn't. In actuality the Proto Logis, aside from some slot tweaking are not *that* bad, so converting them over to properly match the Assaults won't be too hard. Besides in the case of the Cal Logi with its stupid 5/4 system, typically one of those low slots is filled with a CPU extender anyways, so just remove the 4th low and buff CPU accordingly.
I'd also like to maintain that the Cal Logi should either match the Gal and Min equipment count, or have a sidearm to compensate for lack of a 4th equipment. I'd probably vote for the former over the latter personally. And yes, at the very least all STD Logis should have 3 equipment so that all logis at any given moment have more equipment than a Scout.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
752
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Posted - 2014.12.16 02:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote: Besides in the case of the Cal Logi with its stupid 5/4 system, typically one of those low slots is filled with a CPU extender anyways, so just remove the 4th low and buff CPU accordingly.
I'd also like to maintain that the Cal Logi should either match the Gal and Min equipment count, or have a sidearm to compensate for lack of a 4th equipment. I'd probably vote for the former over the latter personally. And yes, at the very least all STD Logis should have 3 equipment so that all logis at any given moment have more equipment than a Scout.
You are spot on. Every single proto logi suit I have has a CPU extender in one of the low slots. Without it, I'm running a LOT of militia and standard stuff on it so the concept of running proto is pointless.
I also agree on the equipment. Personally I'm in favor of the 4th equipment slot so as a logi, I can logi.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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The-Errorist
931
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Posted - 2014.12.22 06:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote:...
The problem I see here is where you don't calculate actual total HP/CPU/PG/Stamina/Stamina Recovery Rate/Movement Speed/Sprint Speed etc. Your solution to give equal module/weapon/equipment based on a tier level must weigh all options of the suit encompassed with racial benefit, as well as the disadvantage. Each logi suit has its advantages, its just a matter of how you use it. Cal logi has its place just as much as gal logi, the same with the min and amarr. Understand that the game has shifted to where each player has been put into a box in terms of suit and weapon cohesion; General use of anything outside this law will be limited to an extent. Every logistics suit is situational, not general in use.
My first guess after reading that was that you are a troll, but it you were being serious and read the entire post before making this reply, please get professional mental help.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4966
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Posted - 2014.12.22 15:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote:...
The problem I see here is where you don't calculate actual total HP/CPU/PG/Stamina/Stamina Recovery Rate/Movement Speed/Sprint Speed etc. Your solution to give equal module/weapon/equipment based on a tier level must weigh all options of the suit encompassed with racial benefit, as well as the disadvantage. Each logi suit has its advantages, its just a matter of how you use it. Cal logi has its place just as much as gal logi, the same with the min and amarr. Understand that the game has shifted to where each player has been put into a box in terms of suit and weapon cohesion; General use of anything outside this law will be limited to an extent. Every logistics suit is situational, not general in use. My first guess after reading that was that you are a troll, but it you were being serious and read the entire post before making this reply, please get professional mental help.
lol.
To restate this in a way that explains to the bunny why (s)he is wrong, it's because by tying the slot progression to be like the assault counterpart of the same race, you keep the speed-hp ratios, base stats, etc, consistent. You don't need to start messing around with the other stuff for the purposes of this proposal.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
567
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Posted - 2014.12.24 21:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
IIRC someone suggested in an earlier suggestion that both Amarr and Caldari should have the sidearm.
Why? Because they use static equipment as their primary. This means that their equipment interaction is designed to be lower than Gallente and Minmatar, who will constantly use their scanners/repair tool.
And now with bandwith, it's definitely not possible to just switch suits. Not that that was ever a good thing to be able to do.
Just throwing this out. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1787
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Posted - 2014.12.25 12:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I think Logis of all tiers should have 3-4 equipment slots depending on their race.
I agree. A logi isn't truly a logi until he fits at least 3 pieces of equipment. And it wouldn't be too hard to fit either. A proto suit is quite capable of fitting full proto. Its not going to be a big issue for a standard logi to fit full standard equipment.
All Hail Legion
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Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
167
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Posted - 2014.12.25 14:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Instead of gimping the Amar logi in some fashion to make up for getting a sidearm slot, all four logis should have a sidearm/equipment slot, in which a sidearm or equipment can be placed, and selected with the weaponswitch button instead of the god-awful equipment selection wheel. Two birds; one stone.
If you really want to preserve the unique Amar flavor, give it some kind of fitting bonus for sidearms. I steadily move toward thinking that slot limits are less and less important, since cpu/pg and isk costs are actually pretty effective limits/disincentives.
The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
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