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Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
234
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Posted - 2014.11.21 09:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
[quote=KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf]A long while ago logis were on the list of things that needed a serious overhaul, Rattati had spreadsheets and plans of slot normalization, but ultimately nothing came of it. It really needs to be fixed though, because it's pretty ridiculous. I haven't been able to play Dust in months because of certain real life situations, so I didn't feel I'm qualified to be talking about such large issues, but none of it has changed since last I played, and just knowing nothing change makes me feel this compulsion to speak out about it. I will explain what the problem is below.
STANDARD
AM logi: 4 module slots total, 2 equipment, and 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 2 module slots total, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 3 module slots total, 2 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 4 module slots total, 3 equipment, no sidearm.
In case the problem is not obvious right there, I will compare the standard logis with the racial equivalents:
The Minmatar and Amarr logis have a huge advantage over the others; they each start with 4 module slots. The Minmatar one has more equipment than the Amarr one, but the Amarr one has a sidearm.
The Caldari one only has 3 modules, but why? it doesn't gain anything in exchange for having less modules, it has only 2 equipment, and no sidearms. The Amarr logi by comparison has the same number of equipment, but more module slots, and gets a sidearm. Caldari logi is screwed at standard tier.
The Gallente one is also awful. Only 2 module slots? sure it has 3 equipment slots, but the Minmatar one also has 3 equipment slots, AND gets 4 module slots. The Gallente logi is screwed at standard tier.
ADVANCED
AM logi: 6 module slots tortal, 3 equipment, 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 5 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 3 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 6 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
Advanced logis comparison.
At advanced tier, Amarr logi is clearly the best logi. 6 modules, 3 equipment, and 1 sidearm.
Minmatar is in 2nd place, the only difference between the Minmatar and the Amarr logi is the lack of sidearm.
Both Gallente and Caldari are downright inferior at advanced. Only 5 modules, same number of equipment as the inferior logis, and no sidearm.
PROTOTYPE
AM logi: 7 module slots tortal, 3 equipment, 1 sidearm.
GA logi: 8 module slots, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
CA logi: 9 module slots, 3 equipment, and no sidearm.
MN logi: 8 module slots, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
Prototype logis comparison.
The Gallente and Minmatar logis are the norm with 8 modules, 4 equipment, and no sidearm.
At standard tier the Amarr logi started out as one of the 2 best logis, but at prototype level it's probably the worst. It has a sidearm, but at the cost of having less equipment AND having less modules. Basically the Amarr sacrifices twice for the sidearm when ideally it should only have to sacrifice once (either 1 less module OR 1 less equipment, but not both penalties). It should also be noted that the only difference between the advanced and prototype Amarr logis is just 1 module slot.
The Caldari logi started with only 3 module slots at standard, yet at prototype it has 9 module slots. While 9 module slots can be considered balanced because it is a the cost of having less equipment than the GA and MN logis, it does make progression very strange.
[SOLUTION]: my proposals are intentionally general and not specific because I don't feel like making a spreadsheets, and this thread is more about calling attention to the issue again. I also don't want to get in a lengthy debate about the specifics.
Logis don't necessarily have to be placed in a very rigid progression system, but just give them the same number of total slots for a certain tier. By this I mean when you add up light weapon slot, sidearm slot, grenade slot, equipment slots, module slots (highs and lows) for logis of the same tier, you should get the same total number. This gives a lot of leeway, and allows some logis to have sidearms, or have more modules or equipment than others, but in an ultimately balanced way.
Be consistent. Don't have a certain racial logi start out completely superior in every way just to have them be inferior at prototype, or have a logi start out with poor module slot count just to have them have the most module slots at prototype.
Minmatar logi should be seen as a shining example for progression between tiers, and for being competent slot counts.
EDIT: If I were to suggest a specific solution.
I would say to make logi module slots mirror their assault counterparts (proposed in the comments a lot).
The Amarr logi should remain an exception, having 1 less module per tier than it's assault counterpart, but keeping the sidearm in exchange.
All logis should have 3 equipment at standard, 3 at advanced, and 4 at prototype.
These changes would mean that the Caldari logi would have 8 module slots at prototype instead of 9, but in exchange would have more equipment slots at standard and prototype tier.
If anyone doesn't think there is a problem, go compare a standard Gallente logi to a Minmatar one.
The problem I see here is where you don't calculate actual total HP/CPU/PG/Stamina/Stamina Recovery Rate/Movement Speed/Sprint Speed etc. Your solution to give equal module/weapon/equipment based on a tier level must weigh all options of the suit encompassed with racial benefit, as well as the disadvantage. Each logi suit has its advantages, its just a matter of how you use it. Cal logi has its place just as much as gal logi, the same with the min and amarr. Understand that the game has shifted to where each player has been put into a box in terms of suit and weapon cohesion; General use of anything outside this law will be limited to an extent. Every logistics suit is situational, not general in use.
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