DUST Search - Petition to un-nerf the rail rifle

Nevyn Tazinas wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

How is a person that identifies as 'pure caldari' supposed to be able to play objectives if they only have a choice between rail rifles, sniper rifles and swarms for a 'primary' weapon.

Assault rail rifle handles incredibly poorly in close quarters especially when compared to other weapons.

Essentially what you're saying here is that an entire race/line of dropsuits should NOT BE ABLE to play the objective without having to resort to one of two sidearms that are less than ideal for such situations.

I'm not asking for the gun to be hyper-effective at all ranges, I'm saying that the weapon does not feel good to be used AT ALL when hipfired.

How is a person who identifies as a 'pure insert non caldari' meant to snipe.
How is a person who identifies as a 'pure amarr' meant to do AV or Tank.

This is not a unique Caldari problem and is not a good argument to make the rail rifle a one size fits all solution.
Different races should feel strong in different ways and play to those strengths.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1079	Posted - 2014.11.16 03:47:00 - [61] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: It's funny how when the RR gets nerfed, the community bitches so much it gets buffed again immediately. But when the AR got nerfed, we didn't get jack **** from CCP for an entire year. Because it was the first rifle therefore not important We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 203	Posted - 2014.11.16 03:48:00 - [62] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Why don't you just incorporate a petition to have the Cal Assault's bonuses changed to support the rail rifle as is now so that if you want a " functional " weapon , you have to play Caldari Assault instead . Have the bonuses changed to less kick and charge up times for rail tec weapons . That would be better for the role , Caldari loyalist and those who care about the Cal Assault and it's role on the battlefield . I support Cal assault bonus being changed to reduced charge time.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1619	Posted - 2014.11.16 04:01:00 - [63] - Quote Nevyn Tazinas wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: How is a person that identifies as 'pure caldari' supposed to be able to play objectives if they only have a choice between rail rifles, sniper rifles and swarms for a 'primary' weapon. Assault rail rifle handles incredibly poorly in close quarters especially when compared to other weapons. Essentially what you're saying here is that an entire race/line of dropsuits should NOT BE ABLE to play the objective without having to resort to one of two sidearms that are less than ideal for such situations. I'm not asking for the gun to be hyper-effective at all ranges, I'm saying that the weapon does not feel good to be used AT ALL when hipfired. How is a person who identifies as a 'pure insert non caldari' meant to snipe. How is a person who identifies as a 'pure amarr' meant to do AV or Tank. This is not a unique Caldari problem and is not a good argument to make the rail rifle a one size fits all solution. Different races should feel strong in different ways and play to those strengths. As far as sniping goes, that's very cherry-picked. As far as av goes I agree completely. My point was however about playing the objective in stuff like skirm, dom, fw, or pc - every race should have the ability to do that, maybe some should be slightly better but as it stands the caldari lineup does not support it well at all. A service rifle is a service rifle for a reason. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2742	Posted - 2014.11.16 06:51:00 - [64] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Cal assault doesn't need spool time reduction, it needs hipfire kick reduction. Ewwwwwwwwwwww nooooooooooo I have the RR for range damnit, make it better for range. I don't care if my hipfire is all over the place, I want a nice and smooth and precise ADS for long-range slaying. Personally I'd like to see the recoil greatly decreased for the RR, and for the reticule for hipfire drastically increased to heavily encourage using it at range. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1619	Posted - 2014.11.16 06:56:00 - [65] - Quote ^so make it a generic kick reduction, that's what I meant but not what I said. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 661	Posted - 2014.11.16 07:09:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Spool time is manageable. If it does get shortened, it shouldn't be as short as before. The kick for ADS should be lowered for more precision aiming for long range, while keeping, or SLIGHTLY reducing, the hipfire kick. Then, slightly increase the Magsec spool by .1 second. Finally, change Caldari Assault bonus to spool time reduction. This is along the lines that I was thinking. hell no. just add a third bonus to the assault suits. move the fitting bonuses to be a "role" bonus. then we can have two proper racial bonuses. we can keep the reload bonus and also get a spool time reduction bonus. losing the reload bonus though? id hate to see it go as it's very useful
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 661	Posted - 2014.11.16 07:13:00 - [67] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Spool time is manageable. If it does get shortened, it shouldn't be as short as before. The kick for ADS should be lowered for more precision aiming for long range, while keeping, or SLIGHTLY reducing, the hipfire kick. Then, slightly increase the Magsec spool by .1 second. Finally, change Caldari Assault bonus to spool time reduction. This is along the lines that I was thinking. Cal assault doesn't need spool time reduction, it needs hipfire kick reduction. spool time reduction effects bolt pistol magsec charge sniper rifle rail rifle its a very strong bonus
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2742	Posted - 2014.11.16 07:16:00 - [68] - Quote My problem with the reload bonus though is that the Commandos all have it, so it is hardly unique. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 95	Posted - 2014.11.16 08:04:00 - [69] - Quote What the CCP developer said, plus one. Amarr Victor
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2584	Posted - 2014.11.16 08:13:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Spool time is manageable. If it does get shortened, it shouldn't be as short as before. The kick for ADS should be lowered for more precision aiming for long range, while keeping, or SLIGHTLY reducing, the hipfire kick. Then, slightly increase the Magsec spool by .1 second. Finally, change Caldari Assault bonus to spool time reduction. This is along the lines that I was thinking. I am not a fan of this. Rail Rifle was given much more hipfire kick because it was too powerful at close range and was dominant at extended range. I thought that nerf was fair. You could still burst fire if you absolutely needed to but the odds were the other guy would win because of your lower rate of fire from having to fire in bursts. That seemed totally fair; much worse at close range, still good at extended ranges. The longer charge time hurts the long range capability as well as the close range capability. 600 miliseconds feels like an eternity when you fire the weapon. So often I have pulled that trigger only to be basically dead before the first shot goes off, again, at Aim Down Sights ranges. Considering the Caldari Assault 'is supposed to hop in and out of cover to regain shield and fire at range', the ramp time before firing is absolute murder. But changing the Caldari bonus to make the Charge time smaller while keeping the Charge time at .6 seconds is robbing Peter to pay Paul. "Rail Rifle is too powerful and the Caldari bonus sucks. Let's nerf the RR heavily and make the Caldari Assault bonus make up for it." The problem is that every other weapon works just fine when not in the hands of the specific Assault. The Assault should make the weapon a clear choice, not make the weapon next to worthless without the bonus. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"

CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1882	Posted - 2014.11.16 08:35:00 - [71] - Quote +1 stupid CCP ambush pub stats have destroyed this gun. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 292	Posted - 2014.11.16 09:26:00 - [72] - Quote It is such a strong and well rounded weapon that even now it is border line op in enyones hands that isn't a complete mouth breather. The don't nerf me bro is to strong and the devs play into it... Jesus it has not even been a week lol of course there is shock that there totally op weapon was given an effective nerf for once. I just picked it up because it was finally somewhat balanced and now it looks like I am going to stick it back on the shelf. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 433	Posted - 2014.11.16 09:26:00 - [73] - Quote It is such a strong and well rounded weapon that even now it is border line op in enyones hands that isn't a complete mouth breather. The don't nerf me bro is to strong and the devs play into it... Jesus it has not even been a week lol of course there is shock that there totally op weapon was given an effective nerf for once. I just picked it up because it was finally somewhat balanced and now it looks like I am going to stick it back on the shelf. The worse part is this was propagated by one of your CPMs. 21 day fast 12/1/14 Life-$
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 661	Posted - 2014.11.16 10:41:00 - [74] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: It is such a strong and well rounded weapon that even now it is border line op in enyones hands that isn't a complete mouth breather. The don't nerf me bro is to strong and the devs play into it... Jesus it has not even been a week lol of course there is shock that there totally op weapon was given an effective nerf for once. I just picked it up because it was finally somewhat balanced and now it looks like I am going to stick it back on the shelf. The worse part is this was propagated by one of your CPMs. so youll be one less RR on the field then. oh well for you lol. the RR is a precision weapon, yet the kick in ADS means you waste shots and need to stop firing to regain accuracy. the spool up time is unreasonable currently when we need to burst fire the weapon for accuracy concerns. buff accuracy so we dont need to burst fire the weapon and then the spool up time would be fine.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 292	Posted - 2014.11.16 10:49:00 - [75] - Quote The weapon has no dispersion no pattern these mechanics are the only thing that separate it from being a laser/CR hybrid. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 433	Posted - 2014.11.16 10:49:00 - [76] - Quote The weapon has no dispersion no pattern these mechanics are the only thing that separate it from being a laser/CR hybrid. 21 day fast 12/1/14 Life-$
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 661	Posted - 2014.11.16 12:42:00 - [77] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: The weapon has no dispersion no pattern these mechanics are the only thing that separate it from being a laser/CR hybrid. the kick throws off accuracy
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1291	Posted - 2014.11.16 19:36:00 - [78] - Quote I stand by my comments from a few weeks ago that the RR has too many contradictions in design concept to balance effectively. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
wiseguy12 Ancient Legion 88	Posted - 2014.11.16 19:53:00 - [79] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Spool reduction balance question. While it may indeed be nice for Caldari RR users, I fear it would also apply to the Charge SR, and that would really not be fun imho. I am much more in favor of slightly reducing the spool up, and giving the Calamari a recoil or dispersion reduction per level. Good point. Haven't thought about that. However, maybe spool and charges are coded differently so maybe bonuses wouldn't clash? Just a theory. They are different dont worry. Pro Caldari assault and sentinel. Proto magsec, Forgegun and Rail Rifle Onuoto Uakan
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1750	Posted - 2014.11.16 20:14:00 - [80] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Joel II X wrote: Spool time is manageable. If it does get shortened, it shouldn't be as short as before. The kick for ADS should be lowered for more precision aiming for long range, while keeping, or SLIGHTLY reducing, the hipfire kick. Then, slightly increase the Magsec spool by .1 second. Finally, change Caldari Assault bonus to spool time reduction. This is along the lines that I was thinking. Cal assault doesn't need spool time reduction, it needs hipfire kick reduction. Why? Caldari aren't meant for CQC so there's no reason they should get a hipfire kick reduction. But hey, if you want to go that route then you better change the Gallente Assault bonus to increased range... yeah, I bet you don't want that. I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing

Tora Kiri D3ATH CARD RUST415 3	Posted - 2014.12.29 15:37:00 - [81] - Quote Since this new update my proto caldari commando with proficiency 5 RR is getting ****. i use the RR with 2 complex dmg mod, as a burst fire weapon 7-shots (+8 SHOTS= TO HIGH KICK) i get very high accuracy with this method. at any range with scope or without scope This is what i have noticed versus different suits at different range against different weapons. 1) shot gun scouts at 30-40m in the open space 95 percent RR win in 2 burst (1.8 update) in (1.10 update ) 50 percent RR WIN: scout closes distance due to longer charge time 1)shot gun scout at -30m in OPEN SPACE any update 40-50 PERCENT RR WIN NOTE: I DONT EXPEXT TO WIN AGAINST A SCOUT AT CQC WITH A RAIL RIFLE IN ANY SITUATION 1) SCOUTS AT 80+ M THEY JUST RUN AWAY IN TO COVER(1.10) IN 1.8 SCOUTS IN THAT RANGE DEAD 2)COMBAT RIFLES ARE BEATING ME AT 50-60M- HEAD TO HEAD (1.10) ASSAULTS HAS AS MUCH HP AS MY COMMANDO AND MORE SIDESTEP AND SPRAYING POWER. I ALWAYS HAVE TO RECHARGE AND LINE MY SHOT OVER DUE TO THEIR STRAF BUT CANNOT NOT GET TO FIRE BECAUSE OF CHARGE TIME. IN THIS INSTANCE I USE 4-5 4 SHOT BURST AND WOULD BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH ASSAULTS IN (1.8) I CANNOT GET BURST FIRE AT THESE RANGE ANY MORE 3) SENTINELS AT 40-60M IN (1.8) IN CLOSE MAPS WAS HARD, NOW (1.10) VERY HARD THE RR RIFLE IS NOT GOOD ANY MORE ON THE CALDARI COMMANDO DUE TO INCREASE CHARGE TIME AND REDUCE RANGE I THINK CCP NEEDS TO ADJUST THE BONUS FOR CALDRI ASSAULTS AND COMMANDOS FOR COMMANDOS: RANGE AND DAMAGE(+2 % DMG IS NOT ENOUGH FOR COMMANDOS FOR ASSAULTS: KICK AND CHARGE TIME
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 767	Posted - 2014.12.29 15:50:00 - [82] - Quote Don't use all caps.. but use a Laser riffle on the Cal Mando until they RR gets fixed. I know you don't get a bonus but it works much better then the RR. I have max skills in both Cal Mando and RR and only 3 points into the laser and it's kinda sad but a true fact with the current community. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Nirwanda Vaughns 1153	Posted - 2014.12.29 16:00:00 - [83] - Quote leave the hip fire kick as is but the kick for scoped fire should be reduced and also the cycle time wants bringing back down. the main issue with the RR was it was far too accurate in CQC that was solved with the increased hipfire kick/spread. changing everything else was an overnerf Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
al nize mk2 No Skillz inc. 235	Posted - 2014.12.29 16:18:00 - [84] - Quote xavier zor wrote: First, +1 to this if you support it! Okay I've plus oned this because which RR user wouldn't like a buff right? But I should add that the gun still works for me. Played at mid range it's a beast and has been since it's undignified nerfing. GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2014.12.29 17:46:00 - [85] - Quote sorry but just get good is some good advice
BRUTAL TRON Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 2	Posted - 2014.12.29 17:48:00 - [86] - Quote I use the arr on my min assault and still beat most suits in mid and long range.. the rr has awfull kick when your aiming downsight. Buff it there but don't touch nothing else on the rr or the arr. Logi mk.0 Assault mk.0 Scout mk.0 & gk.0
1913 DfLo ScReWeD uP InC Learning Alliance 137	Posted - 2014.12.29 18:20:00 - [87] - Quote Signed *ScReWeD uP InC* *Recruit BPO's*
Henrietta Unknown Kaalmayoti Warzone Control 685	Posted - 2014.12.29 19:53:00 - [88] - Quote 7th Son 7 wrote: sorry but just get good is some good advice lel IDK about you, but I could've said the same when the RR was in its prime and you Gallente were petitioning for AR buffs. Please buff my Magsex. It doesn't hit hard enough...
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 481	Posted - 2014.12.29 20:09:00 - [89] - Quote Damn, thought I signed this long ago. Reduce kick with ADS. That is all. There is no precision in it's niche effective range, firing on someone +80m results in them turning around, closing the distance & beating you in CQC. Have you considered a career in costumed aggression?
Nirwanda Vaughns 1154	Posted - 2014.12.29 20:17:00 - [90] - Quote 2Berries wrote: Damn, thought I signed this long ago. Reduce kick with ADS. That is all. There is no precision in it's niche effective range, firing on someone +80m results in them turning around, closing the distance & beating you in CQC. eithe rthat or change the caldari assault to 5% reduction to scoped kick and dispersion (a mirror of the gallente bonus) that way players are persuaded to use RR;s with the racial suits and the caldari cmmando then becomes more tailored to the ARR witht he damage and reload speed Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner



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