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ADS can't possibly be useless guys, come on

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DarthPlagueis TheWise 213	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:09:00 - [1] - Quote How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Louis Domi Y.A.M.A.H 687	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:13:00 - [2] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) They will spawn thousands of swarms just to stop you... Trust me its a waste of money..
DarthPlagueis TheWise 213	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:15:00 - [3] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) They will spawn thousands of swarms just to stop you... Trust me its a waste of money.. Sigh... its no wonder our corp's star pilots haven't been signing on. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Koch Rosenzweig Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 14	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:16:00 - [4] - Quote Not really, swarms and forges are waiting for your cake ADS Huh, what a pretty biotic a$$. Slap
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2305	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:23:00 - [5] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) Do you even know how to fly? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 591	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:25:00 - [6] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) That's what I've been doing. Incubus with a missile launcher. Works great for rooftop links both placing and shooting. Boycott Black Thursday!
DarthPlagueis TheWise 213	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:25:00 - [7] - Quote Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2435	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:37:00 - [8] - Quote No one said they were useless. Heck, I almost always have a seat in PC as a pilot. A lot of the complaints come from the effectiveness of swarms now. Swarms have higher sustained DPS than an Assault Forge (and that's before Commando bonuses), near perfect damage application (at least against ADSs), and also a slew of bugs that make it even more difficult to engage. Not to mention that there are still some things wrong with ADSs: AV is much more difficult (especially in a rail incubus), Python is capable of both AV and AI at the same time (would actually be a nerf to ADSs), skill bonuses are lackluster. To name a few. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1801	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:42:00 - [9] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. I love how people keep saying they used to be god mode. If i can go 30/2 with my fcking plasma cannon then, why the fck do people get mad when i do the same in an ads. I am seriously tired of these double standards where a scout averages 20-40 kills in a match, a rail rifle can average 15 - 30 easy yet, god forbid the ads gunner gets 20 kills which means that the pilot and gunner got 10 kills each. Even if the gunner gets 40 kills its still 20 kills for the pilot and 20 kills for the gunner. Seriously i went 23 - 2 with my qaufe heavy in militia gear and no one gave a flying f*ck. This community is filled with hypocrites. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
DarthPlagueis TheWise 214	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:47:00 - [10] - Quote Ghaz, I was more talking about being frustrated that everyone sees ADS as useless now. I really don't feel like they are useless. That post was more of a reaction to me reading what Rattati had to say. It did sound like he was having a pretty "data means more than what the community thinks" attitude. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location

Mike Ox Bigger Extremely Wicked 322	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:56:00 - [11] - Quote The ADS isn't completely useless, every now and then you'll run into a full team of nubs who don't know what or how to use AV weapons :)
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:00:00 - [12] - Quote 1. ADS i prefer is missile incubus mainly because the python bonus is not missed and the ship is stronger overall and rocking about is less 2. Fly bys is how i deal with uplinks, go fast as possible and send out 2/3 missiles on certain areas, lining up is a must and splash does well 2a. If AV comes out i may try to fight it but if i cannot find it or see it then i dont bother and recall instead or use a basic DS with a gunner if needed, if not land the DS and break out the heavy 3. I will not generally hover around the area and dual AV unless its a FG since they can miss because they have to aim 3a. Dualing a swarm is annoying at best and can be impossible at its very worst due to lack of the AV user rendering, lack of missiles rendering, rocking about like you have been in a tornado when hit and the ability for swarms to never miss 4. The ADS was never god mode 4a. The complaint that all the ADS did was fly away when attacked is completely pointless since all the ADS could ever do was fly away when attacked due to various problems such as lack of rendering on enemies and AV and also no other way of escaping danger apart from AB away due to no countermeasures 4b. If god mode is referring to 'pilot stacking' ie 2 in a python 1 flies the other guns and they get 100% ROF that did require the best part of 2 players ie teamwork and also 5mil SP not including other skills such as small missile reload etc
DarthPlagueis TheWise 217	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:13:00 - [13] - Quote ****, I mean vehicles in a shooter can't get worse than Destiny. One rocket launcher and that flimsy little tank is toast. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1284	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:20:00 - [14] - Quote Like all vehicles, their only as good as their pilot. Also of course people are bitching about ADS, their used to it being easier than it is now. Alot of people seem to struggle with the differnce between balanced and useless... Original Commando, before all you posers just saying
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1803	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:28:00 - [15] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Ghaz, I was more talking about being frustrated that everyone sees ADS as useless now. I really don't feel like they are useless. That post was more of a reaction to me reading what Rattati had to say. It did sound like he was having a pretty "data means more than what the community thinks" attitude. I understand. It just the first sentence that really bothers me since it is what many in the community are saying. To clarify, i wasnt talking about you specifically but about the part of the community that has helped perpetuate the fallacy of ads god mode. If my above statement insulted or made you feel attacked in any way i apologize since that was not my intention. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:45:00 - [16] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) Would u want to spend 300,000 isk to clear some links? Only think its good for now is farming infantry and getting laughed at by tanks.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:48:00 - [17] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. Of course its hard to track ads with fg it their constantly moving, but how can I engage a tank while constantly moving? Ads was op but now its just a waste of isk if there is 1 decent av player combating you. Ccp always makes something op or useless seems like they cant obtain balance.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:51:00 - [18] - Quote Imo ads should be for combating tanks or other ada but that's nearly impossible right now. Farming infantry is easy mode and should not be rewarded.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1151	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:57:00 - [19] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: No one said they were useless. Heck, I almost always have a seat in PC as a pilot. A lot of the complaints come from the effectiveness of swarms now. Swarms have higher sustained DPS than an Assault Forge (and that's before Commando bonuses), near perfect damage application (at least against ADSs), and also a slew of bugs that make it even more difficult to engage. Not to mention that there are still some things wrong with ADSs: AV is much more difficult (especially in a rail incubus), Python is capable of both AV and AI at the same time (would actually be a nerf to ADSs), skill bonuses are lackluster. To name a few. PC is a completely different game. In pubs, full squads have no problem switching to AV to down you. In PC it won't be common for them to have more than two people on AV Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 489	Posted - 2014.11.01 17:14:00 - [20] - Quote lol ADS. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!

gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 368	Posted - 2014.11.01 17:41:00 - [21] - Quote They're not useless at all, but it's kind of a **** isk sink, because of the price compared to basic dropship... But other than that, unless you're a complete genius, you won't lose an ads EVERY match... Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?**
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4202	Posted - 2014.11.01 19:01:00 - [22] - Quote If only ads pilots actually tried doing that instead of going for easy kills
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 128	Posted - 2014.11.01 19:30:00 - [23] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ***** ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. Swarmers can only kill vehicles and don't have to worry about aiming so if they're on a rooftop they are not going to get distracted 'God-Mode'? Think of all the times you were stomped by an ADS, was it just the ADS or was it the squad you were against? can't engage the infantry as the ADS is taking pot shots at you, can't engage the ADS as a Kaalakiota RR is ***** you
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2294	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:08:00 - [24] - Quote You can use it to clear the roof but the usefulness of the ADS compared to a well placed sniper is minimal in that situation. A Sniper is a lot safer and is not as easily countered by someone on the roof. It will lead to people jumping off easier. An ADS can take out the Uplinks but one Swarmer or a Forge Gunner will have you basically fly over, shoot three or four missiles and fly off to reload and repair Shields/Armor. It works but a simultaneous hit between two AV or a Railgun will instantly have you dropping out of the sky. It is not terrible but it isn't overly great. It is fun to fly as I have been forcing myself to learn how to fly but the Skill to Reward/Effectiveness ratio is really unfavorable compared to virtually every other thing in the game. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 286	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:47:00 - [25] - Quote Well, considering my 360,000 + isk investment per ship, i'm increasingly just calling in a 60k Viper and a militia heavy with flux nades to clear AV nests instead. The viper can tank more damage than the incubus, done right i can recall my viper, and i dont have to go play ambush for 45 minutes to earn back each ship lost. Clearing out 10-15 uplinks a macth for 50 - 75 wp, and maybe a couple kils means you wont place high enough to pay off you ship for several games even if you haven't lost it, nor do yo contribute enough WP for an orbital stike. Its pureley a tactical advatage that becomes moot once swarms come into play. If you keep your ship alive to get a return on your investment, well, your KD goes up and you are now considered OP. If you lose three ships in one match but you eject every time your KD still goes up and you are still considered OP. the only pilots that are sticking around are either the ones who actually love flying, or the ones who thought AD's was OP and give it go. I can tell those by their 2K armor incubus with a hardener, they go down very quickly and never return to the skies. You'll never know till you give it a go. Don't take my word for it. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
DarthPlagueis TheWise 222	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:54:00 - [26] - Quote **** man i'm going to feel guilty pulling out my proto forge anymore then again... i just remembered there was a python doing insanely well in a proto stomp. shot down my forge gun suit right as it spawned. so there's still that. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1302	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:54:00 - [27] - Quote it's not useless it takes a sht ton of SP now to dropship, gone are the days of using basic mods on a dropship. if you can't fit proto mods you haven't spent enough SP on the reductions.. if your smart and spend enough flight time you will know by instinct when to call ADS and when not to. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1302	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:59:00 - [28] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Well, considering my 360,000 + isk investment per ship, i'm increasingly just calling in a 60k Viper and a militia heavy with flux nades to clear AV nests instead. The viper can tank more damage than the incubus, done right i can recall my viper, and i dont have to go play ambush for 45 minutes to earn back each ship lost. Clearing out 10-15 uplinks a macth for 50 - 75 wp, and maybe a couple kils means you wont place high enough to pay off you ship for several games even if you haven't lost it, nor do yo contribute enough WP for an orbital stike. Its pureley a tactical advatage that becomes moot once swarms come into play. If you keep your ship alive to get a return on your investment, well, your KD goes up and you are now considered OP. If you lose three ships in one match but you eject every time your KD still goes up and you are still considered OP. the only pilots that are sticking around are either the ones who actually love flying, or the ones who thought AD's was OP and give it go. I can tell those by their 2K armor incubus with a hardener, they go down very quickly and never return to the skies. You'll never know till you give it a go. Don't take my word for it. yea standard dropships are where they should be at now- tankier than ADS. this drives the slayer/tryhards mad because they want their old ADS back. good riddance to those fools can go back to scout now or whatever fotm they came from. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 880	Posted - 2014.11.01 21:25:00 - [29] - Quote Joel II X wrote: If only ads pilots actually tried doing that instead of going for easy kills If only people realised that trying to suppress infantry for your blueberries to push more effectively is rarely easy because of the 404 Swarmers that appear immediately and blow your ** off. TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:** it's not useless it takes a sht ton of SP now to dropship, gone are the days of using basic mods on a dropship. if you can't fit proto mods you haven't spent enough SP on the reductions.. if your smart and spend enough flight time you will know by instinct when to call ADS and when not to. Funny, I never see anyone say, "You should put away your Scout/Assault/Sentinel" Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 130	Posted - 2014.11.01 21:45:00 - [30] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: **** man i'm going to feel guilty pulling out my proto forge anymore then again... i just remembered there was a python doing insanely well in a proto stomp. shot down my forge gun suit right as it spawned. so there's still that. kill me with a Forge, well done sir, you've got a good aim kill me with swarms, really? wow you're great at looking in my general direction

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 287	Posted - 2014.11.01 23:37:00 - [31] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: **** man i'm going to feel guilty pulling out my proto forge anymore then again... i just remembered there was a python doing insanely well in a proto stomp. shot down my forge gun suit right as it spawned. so there's still that. No worries from this pilot about you pulling out proto forge guns, sure I don't like em but that comes from a place of respect. You got good aim and you caught me, or I threw you off whilst watching those blue balls of death wizz past my cockpit. You don't have to be proto fit ADS to survive a fight with a forge gunner, its skill vs skill. Vs swarms bad dev choices takes over for both parites. Pilot evasion "skill" still amounts to afterburning away, not to escape missiles in flight but to escape lock on range of the follow up volleys. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1303	Posted - 2014.11.02 03:12:00 - [32] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Joel II X wrote: If only ads pilots actually tried doing that instead of going for easy kills If only people realised that trying to suppress infantry for your blueberries to push more effectively is rarely easy because of the 404 Swarmers that appear immediately and blow your ** off. TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:** it's not useless it takes a sht ton of SP now to dropship, gone are the days of using basic mods on a dropship. if you can't fit proto mods you haven't spent enough SP on the reductions.. if your smart and spend enough flight time you will know by instinct when to call ADS and when not to. Funny, I never see anyone say, "You should put away your Scout/Assault/Sentinel" /shrug.. well the OP ADS is gone i doubt it will ever come back.. this is still easier to deal with then when large rails had super long range. this is still easier than swamrs and forges from chrome before dropships were reworked. when large rail turret was nerfed flying entered an era of easy mode like never before. i'm not saying they should put their ADS away by all means fly for all i care. throw it at a wall of AV if that's fun. it's cheap now anyway. ppl whining about flying in hard mode tho = no one else cares. to say that every match is chalked full of AV that's simply not true. it is if you flash your ADS around at the first of the match. just because you own it doesnt mean your entitled to use it 24/7. those scouts and sentinels you mentioned could use some of the same advice anyway instead of crying about each other they could call a vehicle for once instead. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13382	Posted - 2014.11.02 03:40:00 - [33] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Funny, I never see anyone say, "You should put away your Scout/Assault/Sentinel" I've been told several times that I should put my Assault away. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
DarthPlagueis TheWise 226	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:36:00 - [34] - Quote I should just make a chat channel called "bringing ADS back" where ADS pilots can find squads that are willing to hunt down and destroy swarm users. Or maybe call it "swarm hunters." It seems to me like Rattati was looking at the wrong data... just comparing one SL user to one ADS pilot. Would've probably turned out better if he had compared 2 swarm launchers VS one ADS. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 415	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:40:00 - [35] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) You was never able to clear rooftops with OB.. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
DarthPlagueis TheWise 228	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:47:00 - [36] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) You was never able to clear rooftops with OB.. The only time it wouldn't work was if the uplink was glitched onto the floor, onto a null cannon, or on a lower elevation than the top floor but still high enough that you cant reach it. A lot of the time you could still wipe out their entire team in the process and begin countermeasures if an uplink survived. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13388	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:49:00 - [37] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: I should just make a chat channel called "bringing ADS back" where ADS pilots can find squads that are willing to hunt down and destroy swarm users. Or maybe call it "swarm hunters." It seems to me like Rattati was looking at the wrong data... just comparing one SL user to one ADS pilot. Would've probably turned out better if he had compared 2 swarm launchers VS one ADS. Turned out better in favor of Pilots? Yes of course. Turned out better in favor of balanced gameplay? Not even close. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
DarthPlagueis TheWise 228	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:53:00 - [38] - Quote says the guy who tried to get the swarm launcher officer weapon Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1896	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:54:00 - [39] - Quote Ohhh so this is the role of the dropship! 10+mil skill points to shoot uplinks, awesome. Here o thought it was meant as troop transport and strafe attack runs but this is much better than that! Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13388	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:56:00 - [40] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: says the guy who tried to get the swarm launcher officer weapon Which means nothing involving the conversation at hand. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND

DarthPlagueis TheWise 228	Posted - 2014.11.02 05:58:00 - [41] - Quote Atiim wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: says the guy who tried to get the swarm launcher officer weapon So what? Hearing the words "swarms do more damage than forge guns now" was all I needed to know. That's ridiculous. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13388	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:03:00 - [42] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Hearing the words "swarms do more damage than forge guns now" was all I needed to know. That's ridiculous. Kaalakiota Forge Gun: 1656HP Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher: 1248HP Either you're mistaking damage for a different stat, or you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
DarthPlagueis TheWise 228	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:07:00 - [43] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: No one said they were useless. Heck, I almost always have a seat in PC as a pilot. A lot of the complaints come from the effectiveness of swarms now. Swarms have higher sustained DPS than an Assault Forge (and that's before Commando bonuses), near perfect damage application (at least against ADSs), and also a slew of bugs that make it even more difficult to engage. Not to mention that there are still some things wrong with ADSs: AV is much more difficult (especially in a rail incubus), Python is capable of both AV and AI at the same time (would actually be a nerf to ADSs), skill bonuses are lackluster. To name a few. Blame that guy. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 131	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:11:00 - [44] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) ADS are totally and utterly useless, thats why you see them in every single PC match you have ever played.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13389	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:20:00 - [45] - Quote He's referring to sustained DPS, which is different from Direct Damage. DPS (Damage per Second) is how much HP of damage you deal every second, while Direct Damage is how much HP of damage you deal per hit. That aside, the Forge Gun has 2x the range of the Swarm Launcher. Given that CCP's balance philosophy includes tradeoffs in DPS over Range, it's fine. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14797	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:41:00 - [46] - Quote Glorified street sweeper. Sweet. At least it's not expensive. Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 153	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:50:00 - [47] - Quote It isn't useless. ADS can at least defend their selves by attacking infantry AV and HAV's. It was almost fine with its changes, but AV updates pushed almost all vehicles to uselessness. Probably not going to get fixed as antisocial or players that have never used vehicles before may start heavily pushing towards making vehicles so bad they're unuseable.Some proto players are like fatcats, so they'll be complacent about negatve changes too as long as it doesn't effect them, which sometimes it does not. When someone is rude to me I don't say f*ck you, I say HOTFIX CHARLIE YOU TOO
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7223	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:55:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Hearing the words "swarms do more damage than forge guns now" was all I needed to know. That's ridiculous. Kaalakiota Forge Gun: 1656HP Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher: 1248HP Either you're mistaking damage for a different stat, or you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. However, in the time it takes to charge a forge, you can have the first volley impact, another sent and be locking in the third. Bad Comparison IMO. On one hand, I'm fine with ADS's being much more fragile. But if they are going to be fragile little butterflies, they NEED to be cheaper. Much cheaper. Like 150k for a full fit (which is the iconic price of a full proto fit) Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
DarthPlagueis TheWise 229	Posted - 2014.11.02 06:57:00 - [49] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: However, in the time it takes to charge a forge, you can have the first volley impact, another sent and be locking in the third. Bad Comparison IMO. On one hand, I'm fine with ADS's being much more fragile. But if they are going to be fragile little butterflies, they NEED to be cheaper. Much cheaper. Like 150k for a full fit (which is the iconic price of a full proto fit) I can pull of some crazy **** at double the range of a swarm launcher though. I don't even know how I do it without a mouse and keyboard. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 882	Posted - 2014.11.02 10:22:00 - [50] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: I can pull of some crazy **** at double the range of a swarm launcher though. I don't even know how I do it without a mouse and keyboard. What are you saying? That you can kill/hit your targets from 350m away? Because for starters, no small turret has that range and actually hitting anything at 200m (Small Missile Max range) is nigh impossible simply because the target is miniscule even when scanned. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

DarthPlagueis TheWise 233	Posted - 2014.11.02 10:34:00 - [51] - Quote dropships aren't that small when they're at the edge of a forge gun's range. they're just about as big as the targeting reticle itself im saying i still feel like a skilled forger is more dangerous than a swarmer. i just wish ADS pilots could see it from my perspective, because I think they're still very useful on the battlefield but yeah they do need a bigger price drop Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1526	Posted - 2014.11.02 10:43:00 - [52] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) its a shame isnt it? vets whined about OBs being too frequant.. got nerfed.. roof camping became viable.. lower OB cost == high risk to be an entrenched roof camper. see the logic? [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 133	Posted - 2014.11.02 11:22:00 - [53] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) its a shame isnt it? vets whined about OBs being too frequant.. got nerfed.. roof camping became viable.. lower OB cost == high risk to be an entrenched roof camper. see the logic? PS if its vs swarms then python is best becasue of... -20% explosive to shields (swarms are explosive) and then hardner +60% resist so that == 80% resists to swarms only problem then is you will need high sp in ads and support skills to increase duration of moduals to keep up your defence vs swarms.. its only the lower sp ADS pilots who seem to whine they are not godmode.. iv had a single 25m+ sp ads pilot single handed hold off and push back a teams advance and shrug off 1-2 AV swarmers (was useing adv dmg modsx3+adv swarms) and could only do maybe 10-15% damage to shields before i got blapped in the face by a missile.. and then i come back in a rail tank to try suprise kill her from an elevated position, after her initial panic some comes back buzzes around myself and kills me in the tank even at spawn.. so no.. ads are still goddamn powerful but it takes too much commitment/isk vs throwaway MLT dropship or Orbital so orbital cost NEEDS to be lowered Missiles killing a (shield) rail tank singlehandedly? I don't buy it
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 194	Posted - 2014.11.02 12:33:00 - [54] - Quote Who said ads were "farming infantry"? You don't even have a clue what it's like to fly, a player on the ground going 50-0 gets GGs and Join in my duna corp? And dropship pilots who go even 20 kills get told they are abusing the ads and are "farming infantry", what the hell do you think the purpose of a gunship is, to throw flowers at people??? With the redline rails, automatic turrets with 12000 Ehp, 2 shot killing rail tanks, missile tanks, buildings and obstacles, swarms that don't render as well as the people who fire them, forge guns that can 3 shot an incubus, rammers and enemy ads pilots it is NOT farming or anything near as trivial. Every game a pilot flies he has to give 110% because a small error such as not flying away after a swarm volley hits you can lead to certain death. You have no idea how it feels to be flying at max speed hundreds of metres away from a swarmer knowing their final volley will definitely hit you and kill you, and the feeling of hopelessness as a result of not being able to dodge swarms. And yet you easy mode scout scrub have the cheek to accuse ads pilots of "farming"? Go get road killed by a lav mate. Rant over. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 3991	Posted - 2014.11.02 12:35:00 - [55] - Quote It's pretty fun doing backflips, until a gorgon rams you...t-to soon. "War determines not who is right, but who is left." Closed Beta Vet Scout before it was cool
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13399	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:08:00 - [56] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: However, in the time it takes to charge a forge, you can have the first volley impact, another sent and be locking in the third. Bad Comparison IMO. On one hand, I'm fine with ADS's being much more fragile. But if they are going to be fragile little butterflies, they NEED to be cheaper. Much cheaper. Like 150k for a full fit (which is the iconic price of a full proto fit) The comparison is exact if you're referring to damage per hit, which the OP in that post. Given that the charge time of an Assault FG (that one that everyone uses) is 2.25s, you'll only have 1 volley in the air with the 2nd lock in progress. As for ADSs being 150k, that's not going to happen. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1258	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:33:00 - [57] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. I love how people keep saying they used to be god mode. If i can go 30/2 with my fcking plasma cannon then, why the fck do people get mad when i do the same in an ads. I am seriously tired of these double standards where a scout averages 20-40 kills in a match, a rail rifle can average 15 - 30 easy yet, god forbid the ads gunner gets 20 kills which means that the pilot and gunner got 10 kills each. Even if the gunner gets 40 kills its still 20 kills for the pilot and 20 kills for the gunner. Seriously i went 23 - 2 with my qaufe heavy in militia gear and no one gave a flying f*ck. This community is filled with hypocrites. No, it just isn't all about you. What you can do is not relevant, what IS relevant is how each of those fits average overall. There are scouts going 30/0 but plenty of scouts going 1/10. There were ADS going 10/0 but no one was going 1/10. Not hypocrites, right. Because, that's why.
Pushing Charlie Elite Intergalactic Mercenaries 365	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:38:00 - [58] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. I love how people keep saying they used to be god mode. If i can go 30/2 with my fcking plasma cannon then, why the fck do people get mad when i do the same in an ads. I am seriously tired of these double standards where a scout averages 20-40 kills in a match, a rail rifle can average 15 - 30 easy yet, god forbid the ads gunner gets 20 kills which means that the pilot and gunner got 10 kills each. Even if the gunner gets 40 kills its still 20 kills for the pilot and 20 kills for the gunner. Seriously i went 23 - 2 with my qaufe heavy in militia gear and no one gave a flying fck. This community is filled with hypocrites. This community is filled with *** players. That's a fact. Knight Soiaire I BELIEVE!
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1258	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:38:00 - [59] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Who said ads were "farming infantry"? You don't even have a clue what it's like to fly, a player on the ground going 50-0 gets GGs and Join in my duna corp? And dropship pilots who go even 20 kills get told they are abusing the ads and are "farming infantry", what the hell do you think the purpose of a gunship is, to throw flowers at people??? With the redline rails, automatic turrets with 12000 Ehp, 2 shot killing rail tanks, missile tanks, buildings and obstacles, swarms that don't render as well as the people who fire them, forge guns that can 3 shot an incubus, rammers and enemy ads pilots it is NOT farming or anything near as trivial. Every game a pilot flies he has to give 110% because a small error such as not flying away after a swarm volley hits you can lead to certain death. You have no idea how it feels to be flying at max speed hundreds of metres away from a swarmer knowing their final volley will definitely hit you and kill you, and the feeling of hopelessness as a result of not being able to dodge swarms. And yet you easy mode scout scrub have the cheek to accuse ads pilots of "farming"? Go get road killed by a lav mate. Rant over. Sure I know that frustration, it was how I felt when I spentthe whole game trying to run down an ADS to get a good shot on it, completely surprise it only to watch it outrun my swarms laughing the whole way, then come back fully repped 10 seconds later and eat my swarms while he killed me and there was absolutely no eay I could stop him. Because, that's why.
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 133	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:51:00 - [60] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: No, it just isn't all about you. What you can do is not relevant, what IS relevant is how each of those fits average overall. There are scouts going 30/0 but plenty of scouts going 1/10. There were ADS going 10/0 but no one was going 1/10. Not hypocrites, right. is the 1/10 scout running proto or is it a 20k suit that still might be profitable after 10 losses? because those who go 1/10 in a dropship stop using them due to the massive cost edit; for reference the 1/10 ADS pilot would have lost 2 million isk just for the ship not including a gun and modules

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 882	Posted - 2014.11.02 19:58:00 - [61] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: No, it just isn't all about you. What you can do is not relevant, what IS relevant is how each of those fits average overall. There are scouts going 30/0 but plenty of scouts going 1/10. There were ADS going 10/0 but no one was going 1/10. Not hypocrites, right. You're absolutely right: those who went 1/5 went broke before the sixth ship, unlike with the scout suits. Also, those scout suits don't require relearning how to move. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5369	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:25:00 - [62] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) They will spawn thousands of swarms just to stop you... Trust me its a waste of money.. Seriously, it's like everyone and their mother specced into Wyrkomi Swarms, and half of those got Commando suits as well. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5369	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:27:00 - [63] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. I love how people keep saying they used to be god mode. If i can go 30/2 with my fcking plasma cannon then, why the fck do people get mad when i do the same in an ads. I am seriously tired of these double standards where a scout averages 20-40 kills in a match, a rail rifle can average 15 - 30 easy yet, god forbid the ads gunner gets 20 kills which means that the pilot and gunner got 10 kills each. Even if the gunner gets 40 kills its still 20 kills for the pilot and 20 kills for the gunner. Seriously i went 23 - 2 with my qaufe heavy in militia gear and no one gave a flying f*ck. This community is filled with hypocrites. ^QFFT Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 195	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:00:00 - [64] - Quote Lol I went 37-16-0 with my laser rifle today, does that mean that there needs to be a buff to commandos with tracking fire extinguishers to nerf my clearly ridiculously op play styles? I've been reaching 40-0+ figures with adv gear my whole career, I onl specced into a proto cal suit last month, my first one, and having 28K Isk swarm launchers that are ridiculously hard to counter running about everywhere is ridiculous. Even militia swarms pose a threat you can't ignore, unless you're running a shield hardened Python, which is custom built to take on swarms, and even then, once they break through the passive rep you're in danger anyway. Personally I believe swarm range needs a reduction, from 400 to 325m, because being able to travel that far makes escape an impossibility currently. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 289	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:14:00 - [65] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: ADS to get a good shot on it, completely surprise it only to watch it outrun my swarms laughing the whole way, then come back fully repped 10 seconds later and eat my swarms while he killed me and there was absolutely no eay I could stop him. If the pilot had actually out run your swarms, so he didn't need to come back repped did he? If i catch a single militia swarmer alone, my xt-1s will eat you alive. Only i have to wait until the missile hits to know wether or not you're militia, by then i've already afterburned halfway across the map, took the hits and realized they weren't not so bad, waited for the afterburner to cool down, then returned to make a pass in the area i thought you were, try to identify you're non rendering self by any nano hives in the area which render at greater distances, try to make a pass to either get you or the nano hives, try to avoid any hanging cranes or obstacles that render even lower than that, and identify you by watching you fire more missiles at me, so either i pull it off, or get ambushed by a full av nest, explode instantly or roughly 400m away making my escape. God mode easy. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 878	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:21:00 - [66] - Quote Because the nerf to isk rewards after a match, it takes 1 destroyed ADS to already be at a loss. So I agree that they need a price drop. I was ok with a godmode ads because it required a godlike commitment in terms of SP and ISK. But now, a mortal ADS that requires godlike commitement in SP and ISK is considered useless. You cant just nerf the rewards and not the prerequisites. There seems to be a misunderstanding when it comes to use of the word "uselessness" when it comes to ADS. And it is based on point of view. The ADS is USEFUL to the TEAM because it helps them push, defend, transport, and all that great stuff.... ADS is USEFUL to the ENEMY because it gives them an easy target to get easy WP from, one less infantry they have to worry about, only requires 1 AV so you dont have to put aside a full squad to deal with it anymore.... Now, the ADS is USELESS to the PILOT that has to fly it. It is a high risk no reward vehicle to the PILOT. "But the PILOT turned the tide and got us the victory.." say the blueberries... Understand one thing, if a VICTORY costs on average 2 MIllion isk.... a PILOT will never see it as a victory. It is a loss. And a DEFEAT will always be a lot worse to a PILOT than anyone else. Tanker will argue that they sometimes go negative too, and that is where the balance is. In the word SOMETIMES. That doesn't apply to ADS anymore. Before the nerf: ADS would RARELY go negative which led to GODLIKE COMPLEX asking for nerf. After nerf, ADS now RARELY goes positive which leads to USELESSNESS. Just like protosuits, there is a possibility to either go positive or negative => balanced. ADS do not have that possibility. Let's try a different example, before nerf: ADS would die 1/10 matches avg. After nerf: ADS now survives 1/10 matches. It's a complete turn around. It's easy for the none pilot to say its useful because they are not ones spending the SP or the isk. All they know is how to yell at the pilot and ask them to make the impossible possible. And just because pilots made it look easy, does not mean it ever was. Unless the corp is willing to shell out the millions of isk to cover the losses for the ADS pilot, Why should a pilot bother to bring out the heavily invested ADS into a battle? Think about that question and then come and say if you still think the ADS is useless or not -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 197	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:39:00 - [67] - Quote You raise a good point. Before the nerf I was just managing to keep my ads only character self sufficient with monthly injections of a few million Isk if I died a lot in pc. However yesterday I had to bail this same character out by 20 million Isk because I was losing an ads near enough every match if not two ads. I only have vehicles on that character so every time I lose a vehicle I am rendered useless apart from the odd militia kills to my team. When smart play resulted in roughly the same Isk efficiency it was a balanced play style. When a victory at the cost of your ship leaves you ISK negative that's just unfair. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr


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