DUST Search - ADS can't possibly be useless guys, come on

Tesfa Alem wrote:

Well, considering my 360,000 + isk investment per ship, i'm increasingly just calling in a 60k Viper and a militia heavy with flux nades to clear AV nests instead. The viper can tank more damage than the incubus, done right i can recall my viper, and i dont have to go play ambush for 45 minutes to earn back each ship lost.

Clearing out 10-15 uplinks a macth for 50 - 75 wp, and maybe a couple kils means you wont place high enough to pay off you ship for several games even if you haven't lost it, nor do yo contribute enough WP for an orbital stike. Its pureley a tactical advatage that becomes moot once swarms come into play.

If you keep your ship alive to get a return on your investment, well, your KD goes up and you are now considered OP. If you lose three ships in one match but you eject every time your KD still goes up and you are still considered OP.

the only pilots that are sticking around are either the ones who actually love flying, or the ones who thought AD's was OP and give it go. I can tell those by their 2K armor incubus with a hardener, they go down very quickly and never return to the skies.

You'll never know till you give it a go. Don't take my word for it.

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DarthPlagueis TheWise 213	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:09:00 - [1] - Quote How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Louis Domi Y.A.M.A.H 687	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:13:00 - [2] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) They will spawn thousands of swarms just to stop you... Trust me its a waste of money..
DarthPlagueis TheWise 213	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:15:00 - [3] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) They will spawn thousands of swarms just to stop you... Trust me its a waste of money.. Sigh... its no wonder our corp's star pilots haven't been signing on. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Koch Rosenzweig Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 14	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:16:00 - [4] - Quote Not really, swarms and forges are waiting for your cake ADS Huh, what a pretty biotic a$$. Slap
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2305	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:23:00 - [5] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) Do you even know how to fly? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 591	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:25:00 - [6] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) That's what I've been doing. Incubus with a missile launcher. Works great for rooftop links both placing and shooting. Boycott Black Thursday!
DarthPlagueis TheWise 213	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:25:00 - [7] - Quote Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2435	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:37:00 - [8] - Quote No one said they were useless. Heck, I almost always have a seat in PC as a pilot. A lot of the complaints come from the effectiveness of swarms now. Swarms have higher sustained DPS than an Assault Forge (and that's before Commando bonuses), near perfect damage application (at least against ADSs), and also a slew of bugs that make it even more difficult to engage. Not to mention that there are still some things wrong with ADSs: AV is much more difficult (especially in a rail incubus), Python is capable of both AV and AI at the same time (would actually be a nerf to ADSs), skill bonuses are lackluster. To name a few. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1801	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:42:00 - [9] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. I love how people keep saying they used to be god mode. If i can go 30/2 with my fcking plasma cannon then, why the fck do people get mad when i do the same in an ads. I am seriously tired of these double standards where a scout averages 20-40 kills in a match, a rail rifle can average 15 - 30 easy yet, god forbid the ads gunner gets 20 kills which means that the pilot and gunner got 10 kills each. Even if the gunner gets 40 kills its still 20 kills for the pilot and 20 kills for the gunner. Seriously i went 23 - 2 with my qaufe heavy in militia gear and no one gave a flying f*ck. This community is filled with hypocrites. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
DarthPlagueis TheWise 214	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:47:00 - [10] - Quote Ghaz, I was more talking about being frustrated that everyone sees ADS as useless now. I really don't feel like they are useless. That post was more of a reaction to me reading what Rattati had to say. It did sound like he was having a pretty "data means more than what the community thinks" attitude. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location

Mike Ox Bigger Extremely Wicked 322	Posted - 2014.11.01 15:56:00 - [11] - Quote The ADS isn't completely useless, every now and then you'll run into a full team of nubs who don't know what or how to use AV weapons :)
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:00:00 - [12] - Quote 1. ADS i prefer is missile incubus mainly because the python bonus is not missed and the ship is stronger overall and rocking about is less 2. Fly bys is how i deal with uplinks, go fast as possible and send out 2/3 missiles on certain areas, lining up is a must and splash does well 2a. If AV comes out i may try to fight it but if i cannot find it or see it then i dont bother and recall instead or use a basic DS with a gunner if needed, if not land the DS and break out the heavy 3. I will not generally hover around the area and dual AV unless its a FG since they can miss because they have to aim 3a. Dualing a swarm is annoying at best and can be impossible at its very worst due to lack of the AV user rendering, lack of missiles rendering, rocking about like you have been in a tornado when hit and the ability for swarms to never miss 4. The ADS was never god mode 4a. The complaint that all the ADS did was fly away when attacked is completely pointless since all the ADS could ever do was fly away when attacked due to various problems such as lack of rendering on enemies and AV and also no other way of escaping danger apart from AB away due to no countermeasures 4b. If god mode is referring to 'pilot stacking' ie 2 in a python 1 flies the other guns and they get 100% ROF that did require the best part of 2 players ie teamwork and also 5mil SP not including other skills such as small missile reload etc
DarthPlagueis TheWise 217	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:13:00 - [13] - Quote ****, I mean vehicles in a shooter can't get worse than Destiny. One rocket launcher and that flimsy little tank is toast. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1284	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:20:00 - [14] - Quote Like all vehicles, their only as good as their pilot. Also of course people are bitching about ADS, their used to it being easier than it is now. Alot of people seem to struggle with the differnce between balanced and useless... Original Commando, before all you posers just saying
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1803	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:28:00 - [15] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Ghaz, I was more talking about being frustrated that everyone sees ADS as useless now. I really don't feel like they are useless. That post was more of a reaction to me reading what Rattati had to say. It did sound like he was having a pretty "data means more than what the community thinks" attitude. I understand. It just the first sentence that really bothers me since it is what many in the community are saying. To clarify, i wasnt talking about you specifically but about the part of the community that has helped perpetuate the fallacy of ads god mode. If my above statement insulted or made you feel attacked in any way i apologize since that was not my intention. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:45:00 - [16] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: How else are we going to clear those damn rooftop camping uplinks? Certainly not with OBs anymore. Especially the tricky as hell ones that you can't OB and have a hard time landing a MLT dropship on. ****, I might skill into a python just for this purpose alone. (Or I guess an Incubus to be harder to kill) Would u want to spend 300,000 isk to clear some links? Only think its good for now is farming infantry and getting laughed at by tanks.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:48:00 - [17] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ******* ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. Of course its hard to track ads with fg it their constantly moving, but how can I engage a tank while constantly moving? Ads was op but now its just a waste of isk if there is 1 decent av player combating you. Ccp always makes something op or useless seems like they cant obtain balance.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:51:00 - [18] - Quote Imo ads should be for combating tanks or other ada but that's nearly impossible right now. Farming infantry is easy mode and should not be rewarded.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1151	Posted - 2014.11.01 16:57:00 - [19] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: No one said they were useless. Heck, I almost always have a seat in PC as a pilot. A lot of the complaints come from the effectiveness of swarms now. Swarms have higher sustained DPS than an Assault Forge (and that's before Commando bonuses), near perfect damage application (at least against ADSs), and also a slew of bugs that make it even more difficult to engage. Not to mention that there are still some things wrong with ADSs: AV is much more difficult (especially in a rail incubus), Python is capable of both AV and AI at the same time (would actually be a nerf to ADSs), skill bonuses are lackluster. To name a few. PC is a completely different game. In pubs, full squads have no problem switching to AV to down you. In PC it won't be common for them to have more than two people on AV Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 489	Posted - 2014.11.01 17:14:00 - [20] - Quote lol ADS. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!

gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 368	Posted - 2014.11.01 17:41:00 - [21] - Quote They're not useless at all, but it's kind of a **** isk sink, because of the price compared to basic dropship... But other than that, unless you're a complete genius, you won't lose an ads EVERY match... Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?**
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4202	Posted - 2014.11.01 19:01:00 - [22] - Quote If only ads pilots actually tried doing that instead of going for easy kills
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 128	Posted - 2014.11.01 19:30:00 - [23] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Well I just read the discussion archives and it just sounds like a twitch community reaction to ADS not being God-mode anymore. You've got to admit, those things were a terror on the battlefield. I honestly refuse to believe an ADS that's committed to clearing a rooftop the entire match can't at least harass it, keeping the enemy AV on their toes. And the less heavily guarded uplinks on top of structures should be easy to take out. Trust me, being a Forge Gunner I can guarantee you it's a pain in the ***** ass to keep track of those ADS. As long as they keep moving in and out of our range we WILL get distracted, and we WILL have to need a quick reaction time to target them again once they reappear. Your infantry should be keeping AV busy. I think that's the key here. Coordinating with your squad should give ADS a nice opening to do whatever the hell it needs to do. Swarmers can only kill vehicles and don't have to worry about aiming so if they're on a rooftop they are not going to get distracted 'God-Mode'? Think of all the times you were stomped by an ADS, was it just the ADS or was it the squad you were against? can't engage the infantry as the ADS is taking pot shots at you, can't engage the ADS as a Kaalakiota RR is ***** you
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2294	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:08:00 - [24] - Quote You can use it to clear the roof but the usefulness of the ADS compared to a well placed sniper is minimal in that situation. A Sniper is a lot safer and is not as easily countered by someone on the roof. It will lead to people jumping off easier. An ADS can take out the Uplinks but one Swarmer or a Forge Gunner will have you basically fly over, shoot three or four missiles and fly off to reload and repair Shields/Armor. It works but a simultaneous hit between two AV or a Railgun will instantly have you dropping out of the sky. It is not terrible but it isn't overly great. It is fun to fly as I have been forcing myself to learn how to fly but the Skill to Reward/Effectiveness ratio is really unfavorable compared to virtually every other thing in the game. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 286	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:47:00 - [25] - Quote Well, considering my 360,000 + isk investment per ship, i'm increasingly just calling in a 60k Viper and a militia heavy with flux nades to clear AV nests instead. The viper can tank more damage than the incubus, done right i can recall my viper, and i dont have to go play ambush for 45 minutes to earn back each ship lost. Clearing out 10-15 uplinks a macth for 50 - 75 wp, and maybe a couple kils means you wont place high enough to pay off you ship for several games even if you haven't lost it, nor do yo contribute enough WP for an orbital stike. Its pureley a tactical advatage that becomes moot once swarms come into play. If you keep your ship alive to get a return on your investment, well, your KD goes up and you are now considered OP. If you lose three ships in one match but you eject every time your KD still goes up and you are still considered OP. the only pilots that are sticking around are either the ones who actually love flying, or the ones who thought AD's was OP and give it go. I can tell those by their 2K armor incubus with a hardener, they go down very quickly and never return to the skies. You'll never know till you give it a go. Don't take my word for it. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
DarthPlagueis TheWise 222	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:54:00 - [26] - Quote **** man i'm going to feel guilty pulling out my proto forge anymore then again... i just remembered there was a python doing insanely well in a proto stomp. shot down my forge gun suit right as it spawned. so there's still that. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1302	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:54:00 - [27] - Quote it's not useless it takes a sht ton of SP now to dropship, gone are the days of using basic mods on a dropship. if you can't fit proto mods you haven't spent enough SP on the reductions.. if your smart and spend enough flight time you will know by instinct when to call ADS and when not to. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1302	Posted - 2014.11.01 20:59:00 - [28] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Well, considering my 360,000 + isk investment per ship, i'm increasingly just calling in a 60k Viper and a militia heavy with flux nades to clear AV nests instead. The viper can tank more damage than the incubus, done right i can recall my viper, and i dont have to go play ambush for 45 minutes to earn back each ship lost. Clearing out 10-15 uplinks a macth for 50 - 75 wp, and maybe a couple kils means you wont place high enough to pay off you ship for several games even if you haven't lost it, nor do yo contribute enough WP for an orbital stike. Its pureley a tactical advatage that becomes moot once swarms come into play. If you keep your ship alive to get a return on your investment, well, your KD goes up and you are now considered OP. If you lose three ships in one match but you eject every time your KD still goes up and you are still considered OP. the only pilots that are sticking around are either the ones who actually love flying, or the ones who thought AD's was OP and give it go. I can tell those by their 2K armor incubus with a hardener, they go down very quickly and never return to the skies. You'll never know till you give it a go. Don't take my word for it. yea standard dropships are where they should be at now- tankier than ADS. this drives the slayer/tryhards mad because they want their old ADS back. good riddance to those fools can go back to scout now or whatever fotm they came from. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 880	Posted - 2014.11.01 21:25:00 - [29] - Quote Joel II X wrote: If only ads pilots actually tried doing that instead of going for easy kills If only people realised that trying to suppress infantry for your blueberries to push more effectively is rarely easy because of the 404 Swarmers that appear immediately and blow your ** off. TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:** it's not useless it takes a sht ton of SP now to dropship, gone are the days of using basic mods on a dropship. if you can't fit proto mods you haven't spent enough SP on the reductions.. if your smart and spend enough flight time you will know by instinct when to call ADS and when not to. Funny, I never see anyone say, "You should put away your Scout/Assault/Sentinel" Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 130	Posted - 2014.11.01 21:45:00 - [30] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: **** man i'm going to feel guilty pulling out my proto forge anymore then again... i just remembered there was a python doing insanely well in a proto stomp. shot down my forge gun suit right as it spawned. so there's still that. kill me with a Forge, well done sir, you've got a good aim kill me with swarms, really? wow you're great at looking in my general direction



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