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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1988	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:52:00 - [1] - Quote Rattati, You seem to be of a mind to reduce the rail rifle's effectiveness in CQC. Currently I stand against this change. It is not that I think the RR should be good in CQC. However, the CQC RR option, the ARR, is vastly inferior to other rifle options. I will list out some problems I find with it: 1. Ammo capacity is the same for the RR and ARR, meaning far less damage per magazine (2171.4 for proto RR and 1680 for ARR) 2. Range is nearly identical for RR and ARR. RR is 73m, ARR is 71m. Optimal was tested by aiming at an installation with an efficiency reading of 9%, and backing up until efficiency dropped to 8%. The breaking point between these was considered the optimal range for my tests. the ARR also has no zoom nor a scope, meaning taking advantage of this range is far more difficult. 3. DPS is almost exactly the same. 397 for RR, 400 for ARR. This means that there is almost no situation where the ARR outshines the RR. The faster ROF means that you eat ammo faster, and with the same magazine size as the RR, that means the RR is better in CQC. This is because since the ARR shoots faster, you lose more shots if your not on target than with the RR. The harder hitting slower firing RR gives more time to readjust before too many rounds have missed. I propose the changes thus. All damage numbers assume proto level. 1. Increase ammo capacity from 42 to 58. 2. Increase damage from 40 to 42. This brings DPS to 420. By comparison, ACR has 436.6 DPS and PR has DPS of 453.2. This is as it should be, the ARR should have lowest DPS of the Assault variants. - The damage per mag with both of these will be 2436. 3. Decrease range to 55-60m. Whichever makes it the longest ranged Assault variant while still substantially lower than the base RR optimal. 4. Keep charge time the same as it is currently. ie: Increase charge time for the base RR, and keep the ARR where it is now. With these changes, the ARR now has a niche, and Caldari have a CQC variant that doesn't outperform the other lower range rifles. With this change, I would fully support The changes to the RR you proposed in your thread here. Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9139	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:53:00 - [2] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Rattati, You seem to be of a mind to reduce the rail rifle's effectiveness in CQC. Currently I stand against this change. It is not that I think the RR should be good in CQC. However, the CQC RR option, the ARR, is vastly inferior to other rifle options. I will list out some problems I find with it: 1. Ammo capacity is the same for the RR and ARR, meaning far less damage per magazine (2171.4 for proto RR and 1680 for ARR) 2. Range is nearly identical for RR and ARR. RR is 73m, ARR is 71m. Optimal was tested by aiming at an installation with an efficiency reading of 9%, and backing up until efficiency dropped to 8%. The breaking point between these was considered the optimal range for my tests. the ARR also has no zoom nor a scope, meaning taking advantage of this range is far more difficult. 3. DPS is almost exactly the same. 397 for RR, 400 for ARR. This means that there is almost no situation where the ARR outshines the RR. The faster ROF means that you eat ammo faster, and with the same magazine size as the RR, that means the RR is better in CQC. This is because since the ARR shoots faster, you lose more shots if your not on target than with the RR. The harder hitting slower firing RR gives more time to readjust before too many rounds have missed. I propose the changes thus. All damage numbers assume proto level. 1. Increase ammo capacity from 42 to 58. 2. Increase damage from 40 to 42. This brings DPS to 420. By comparison, ACR has 436.6 DPS and PR has DPS of 453.2. This is as it should be, the ARR should have lowest DPS of the Assault variants. - The damage per mag with both of these will be 2436. 3. Decrease range to 55-60m. Whichever makes it the longest ranged Assault variant while still substantially lower than the base RR optimal. 4. Keep charge time the same as it is currently. ie: Increase charge time for the base RR, and keep the ARR where it is now. With these changes, the ARR now has a niche, and Caldari have a CQC variant that doesn't outperform the other lower range rifles. With this change, I would fully support The changes to the RR you proposed in your thread here. Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( I am looking at this right now "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1988	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:53:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Rattati, You seem to be of a mind to reduce the rail rifle's effectiveness in CQC. Currently I stand against this change. It is not that I think the RR should be good in CQC. However, the CQC RR option, the ARR, is vastly inferior to other rifle options. I will list out some problems I find with it: 1. Ammo capacity is the same for the RR and ARR, meaning far less damage per magazine (2171.4 for proto RR and 1680 for ARR) 2. Range is nearly identical for RR and ARR. RR is 73m, ARR is 71m. Optimal was tested by aiming at an installation with an efficiency reading of 9%, and backing up until efficiency dropped to 8%. The breaking point between these was considered the optimal range for my tests. the ARR also has no zoom nor a scope, meaning taking advantage of this range is far more difficult. 3. DPS is almost exactly the same. 397 for RR, 400 for ARR. This means that there is almost no situation where the ARR outshines the RR. The faster ROF means that you eat ammo faster, and with the same magazine size as the RR, that means the RR is better in CQC. This is because since the ARR shoots faster, you lose more shots if your not on target than with the RR. The harder hitting slower firing RR gives more time to readjust before too many rounds have missed. I propose the changes thus. All damage numbers assume proto level. 1. Increase ammo capacity from 42 to 58. 2. Increase damage from 40 to 42. This brings DPS to 420. By comparison, ACR has 436.6 DPS and PR has DPS of 453.2. This is as it should be, the ARR should have lowest DPS of the Assault variants. - The damage per mag with both of these will be 2436. 3. Decrease range to 55-60m. Whichever makes it the longest ranged Assault variant while still substantially lower than the base RR optimal. 4. Keep charge time the same as it is currently. ie: Increase charge time for the base RR, and keep the ARR where it is now. With these changes, the ARR now has a niche, and Caldari have a CQC variant that doesn't outperform the other lower range rifles. With this change, I would fully support The changes to the RR you proposed in your thread here. Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( I am looking at this right now If a spreadsheet would help, I have it made, just unsure how to post it. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9139	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:54:00 - [4] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( It saves automatically, then you have to go to File and Sharing, then in the top right cornere there is a "share with link" option, press that, copy the link and Done. Paste the path here and people can press the link and open it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1988	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:56:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( It saves automatically, then you have to go to File and Sharing, then in the top right cornere there is a "share with link" option, press that, copy the link and Done. Paste the path here and people can press the link and open it. On it, and will put in the OP. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1139	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:02:00 - [6] - Quote Im for a ARR buff i actually like how it's not overpowered or really good like the RR Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1988	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:06:00 - [7] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Im for a ARR buff i actually like how it's not overpowered or really good like the RR My idea is for there to be a viable CQC option for Caldari. RR users should have to pick between CQC and long ranage, but having both is indeed OP, I freely admit that. But I don't want RR users to be forced to only have long range as options. The ARR should be the CQC option for us RR users. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9148	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:12:00 - [8] - Quote I like all these changes, both the reasoning and the fact that the ARR needs a little buff anyway. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 608	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:16:00 - [9] - Quote the points youve made about the ARR are exactly why i dont use it. and ive mentioned this over and over before that the ARR doesnt even follow the same template as the other assault variants. increased ROF increased max ammo increased clip size decreased damage per shot decreased range the ARR doesnt follow this. except for completely negligible stats differences of 3 units or less. what does the data say about its use? i barely see it used ever

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9148	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:17:00 - [10] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the points youve made about the ARR are exactly why i dont use it. and ive mentioned this over and over before that the ARR doesnt even follow the same template as the other assault variants. increased ROF increased max ammo increased clip size decreased damage per shot decreased range the ARR doesnt follow this. except for completely negligible stats differences of 3 units or less. what does the data say about its use? i barely see it used ever thing is, we have been making iterations to rifles since Alpha, and we are not there yet. But there is a long term plan to get to a place where everything makes sense and players pick weapons based on preferred playstyles, not because it's dumb to use anything other than "OP weapon X" "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 608	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:19:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like all these changes, both the reasoning and the fact that the ARR needs a little buff anyway. i hope this doesnt mean that the RR will get nerfed. add the scope or a reflex sight to the ARR and ill be happy. the iron sights on it are prohibitive and dont allow the weapon to make use of its range with any degree of functional accuracy CCP Rattati wrote: thing is, we have been making iterations to rifles since Alpha, and we are not there yet. But there is a long term plan to get to a place where everything makes sense and players pick weapons based on preferred playstyles, not because it's dumb to use anything other than "OP weapon X" i would honestly love to use the ARR but i dont because the lack of a scope is too much, along with the other points made
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1991	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:21:00 - [12] - Quote If possible, could these changes make it into the balance hotfix coming on Tuesday? Completely understand if not, but I would definitely appreciate having that option available at the same time that the base RR changes come out. Otherwise I feel that RR users will be kind of let down that their rifle was nerfed (justifiable, but a nerf nonetheless) without having an option to turn to. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1991	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:24:00 - [13] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: i hope this doesnt mean that the RR will get nerfed. add the scope or a reflex sight to the ARR and ill be happy. the iron sights on it are prohibitive and dont allow the weapon to make use of its range with any degree of functional accuracy Honestly, I think the increased DPS an cut range would make those iron sights better suited than they are now. Plus, the RR does perform well in CQC. Hell, I've tangoed with sentinels with HMGs using my Calmanndo from inside 15m and won handily. So the nerfs are justified. However, without another roption to turn to for CQC, I fear RR will be UP and people will feel there SP in RR was wasted. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8097	Posted - 2014.10.24 03:55:00 - [14] - Quote This is good stuff. I can completely agree with everything OP has said. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1265	Posted - 2014.10.24 04:22:00 - [15] - Quote Good work, Alena. Long time RR specialists like Stephan Stahl and I have been advocating for adjustments similar to this for a while. One thing I would clearly add to the discussion...recoil. The proposed recoil increase in the weapon changes currently proposed would seriously impact usage. The RR and ARR already have the highest recoil level of any light weapon and that actually is quite counter intuitive to a weapon that is intended to do well at range. I would recommend also holding off on the increased recoil until the dust settles (seriously no pun) on the charge mechanic adjustment we all see how things function. I do like the idea of a SMG like reflex sight being added to the ARR but that's probably a bridge to far at the moment. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 454	Posted - 2014.10.24 04:30:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I like all these changes, both the reasoning and the fact that the ARR needs a little buff anyway. GG Rattati
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 454	Posted - 2014.10.24 04:30:00 - [17] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Rattati, You seem to be of a mind to reduce the rail rifle's effectiveness in CQC. Currently I stand against this change. It is not that I think the RR should be good in CQC. However, the CQC RR option, the ARR, is vastly inferior to other rifle options. I will list out some problems I find with it: 1. Ammo capacity is the same for the RR and ARR, meaning far less damage per magazine (2171.4 for proto RR and 1680 for ARR) 2. Range is nearly identical for RR and ARR. RR is 73m, ARR is 71m. Optimal was tested by aiming at an installation with an efficiency reading of 9%, and backing up until efficiency dropped to 8%. The breaking point between these was considered the optimal range for my tests. the ARR also has no zoom nor a scope, meaning taking advantage of this range is far more difficult. 3. DPS is almost exactly the same. 397 for RR, 400 for ARR. This means that there is almost no situation where the ARR outshines the RR. The faster ROF means that you eat ammo faster, and with the same magazine size as the RR, that means the RR is better in CQC. This is because since the ARR shoots faster, you lose more shots if your not on target than with the RR. The harder hitting slower firing RR gives more time to readjust before too many rounds have missed. I propose the changes thus. All damage numbers assume proto level. 1. Increase ammo capacity from 42 to 58. 2. Increase damage from 40 to 42. This brings DPS to 420. By comparison, ACR has 436.6 DPS and PR has DPS of 453.2. This is as it should be, the ARR should have lowest DPS of the Assault variants. - The damage per mag with both of these will be 2436. 3. Decrease range to 55-60m. Whichever makes it the longest ranged Assault variant while still substantially lower than the base RR optimal. 4. Keep charge time the same as it is currently. ie: Increase charge time for the base RR, and keep the ARR where it is now. With these changes, the ARR now has a niche, and Caldari have a CQC variant that doesn't outperform the other lower range rifles. With this change, I would fully support The changes to the RR you proposed in your thread here. Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( EDIT: Link to spreadsheet. Much thanks to Rattati for telling me how. Could not have said it better myself.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2071	Posted - 2014.10.24 04:58:00 - [18] - Quote How about a non-advanced version of the different weapons? I love the ARR but I am a cheap, soulless bastard and hate spending advanced weapon prices. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2004	Posted - 2014.10.24 05:01:00 - [19] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Good work, Alena. Long time RR specialists like Stephan Stahl and I have been advocating for adjustments similar to this for a while. One thing I would clearly add to the discussion...recoil. The proposed recoil increase in the weapon changes currently proposed would seriously impact usage. The RR and ARR already have the highest recoil level of any light weapon and that actually is quite counter intuitive to a weapon that is intended to do well at range. I would recommend also holding off on the increased recoil until the dust settles (seriously no pun) on the charge mechanic adjustment we all see how things function. I do like the idea of a SMG like reflex sight being added to the ARR but that's probably a bridge to far at the moment. I assume Rattati would be adding recoil to the base and not the ARR. A reflex sight would be nice. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8098	Posted - 2014.10.24 05:21:00 - [20] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Good work, Alena. Long time RR specialists like Stephan Stahl and I have been advocating for adjustments similar to this for a while. One thing I would clearly add to the discussion...recoil. The proposed recoil increase in the weapon changes currently proposed would seriously impact usage. The RR and ARR already have the highest recoil level of any light weapon and that actually is quite counter intuitive to a weapon that is intended to do well at range. I would recommend also holding off on the increased recoil until the dust settles (seriously no pun) on the charge mechanic adjustment we all see how things function. I do like the idea of a SMG like reflex sight being added to the ARR but that's probably a bridge to far at the moment. I assume Rattati would be adding recoil to the base and not the ARR. A reflex sight would be nice. It would be nice to chose what kind of Sight we can have on our weapons in general...hint hint nudge nudge. Reflex sight on my Plasma Rifle plz. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 608	Posted - 2014.10.24 05:32:00 - [21] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: i hope this doesnt mean that the RR will get nerfed. add the scope or a reflex sight to the ARR and ill be happy. the iron sights on it are prohibitive and dont allow the weapon to make use of its range with any degree of functional accuracy Honestly, I think the increased DPS an cut range would make those iron sights better suited than they are now. Plus, the RR does perform well in CQC. Hell, I've tangoed with sentinels with HMGs using my Calmanndo from inside 15m and won handily. So the nerfs are justified. However, without another roption to turn to for CQC, I fear RR will be UP and people will feel there SP in RR was wasted. he shouldnt touch the RR until he buff the ARR. and he shouldnt bother with that, until he fixes them first. RR, ARR, bolt pistol, sniper rifle, vehicles rail turrets, and the forge gun (i think) are all glitched to hell https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2409839#post2409839 look at the date i posted this too... still no reply
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2007	Posted - 2014.10.24 05:35:00 - [22] - Quote Updated OP with results of test on recoil between RR and ARR. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Vicious Minotaur 1259	Posted - 2014.10.24 05:39:00 - [23] - Quote I agree completely. My Caldari Purist would finally have a reason to field the ARR instead of the base variant with the suggested changes. The other thing besides effectiveness of the ARR that stops me from using its price. If only CCP would get rid of the stupid price increase non-base variant weapons get. All it does is discourage diversity and punish less skilled players by forcing them to either unnecessarily lose ISK by using their preferred weapon variation, or stop using their favored variant so they can make more ISK (which has a detriment on the fun factor). Having a premium on side-grades seems a complete nuisance that adds absolutely nothing to the game. (just thought I'd vent a little, sorry) I am a minotaur.
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 331	Posted - 2014.10.24 05:40:00 - [24] - Quote Not sure about boosting the RRA damage.....in the long run it still has a considerably longer range than other rifles...Which means even if its the lowest DPS wise, it still retains that consistent damage while the others would have falloff and consequently be less the RRA at a given distance. Sure the RRs are supposed to be range but not sure how much your willing to boost the CQC ability while still giving it a range advantage. 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2008	Posted - 2014.10.24 06:21:00 - [25] - Quote Chief-Shotty wrote: Not sure about boosting the RRA damage.....in the long run it still has a considerably longer range than other rifles...Which means even if its the lowest DPS wise, it still retains that consistent damage while the others would have falloff and consequently be less the RRA at a given distance. Sure the RRs are supposed to be range but not sure how much your willing to boost the CQC ability while still giving it a range advantage. And those rifles also put out more damage even with the proposed damage increase. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2928	Posted - 2014.10.24 06:23:00 - [26] - Quote Perhaps make the ARR a shorter range version which is a CQC weapon? And keep the regular RR as the long range weapon. Every rifle should have a long range marksman variant, and a short range CQC variant. This follows EVE design, for example: minmatar artillery turrets/autocannons. Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18412	Posted - 2014.10.24 08:52:00 - [27] - Quote Good thread. +1 You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3231	Posted - 2014.10.24 10:04:00 - [28] - Quote I agree with these but I disagree with increasing the clip, and the dispersion and recoil should be above that of the AR (less accurate than). Most other assault type weapons have longer range but aside from DPS almost equal performance or better in cqc, which makes the AR bad by comparison. As for the clip I say this because it is honestly the only downfall assault weapons have, which is a lower damage per clip than the AR, the exception being the a SCR. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 506	Posted - 2014.10.24 12:06:00 - [29] - Quote I'm all Caldari and use both rail riffles.. I tend not to use the assault rail riffle because you have to constantly move back to the supply depot. The kick on the RR cause half the shots not to connect to the total DPS output is low compared to the normal RR. Love the rail but it is lacking in PC game modes. When fighting real targets the flaws really shine on this weapon I rather see the damage increased on the assault or a complete rework with maybe the shots firing in a pattern to take on more targets. I feel like this is one of the guns people love to hate on and try to extra nerf it. With more shield users on the field now the gun isn't as great. Remember when the RR was introduced 90% of players where armor tanked so it didn't make sense to use a AR. Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1400	Posted - 2014.10.24 12:35:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: thing is, we have been making iterations to rifles since Alpha, and we are not there yet. But there is a long term plan to get to a place where everything makes sense and players pick weapons based on preferred playstyles, not because it's dumb to use anything other than "OP weapon X" Sweetness, that is the EXACTLY right design philosophy! 07 CCP stick to it and it'll bring great results. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2123	Posted - 2014.10.24 12:41:00 - [31] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: thing is, we have been making iterations to rifles since Alpha, and we are not there yet. But there is a long term plan to get to a place where everything makes sense and players pick weapons based on preferred playstyles, not because it's dumb to use anything other than "OP weapon X" Sweetness, that is the EXACTLY right design philosophy! 07 CCP stick to it and it'll bring great results. Exactly, but lets be honest with ourselves, we are certainly not quite there yet. Still I appreciate 90% of what Rattati has been doing and what he will continue to do. I might not always agree with stuff but it does appear he wants what is best for the game. Now on an unrelated subject, how about a little more emphasis on the new players, their new player experience and maybe someway to introduce new players to the corps that are dedicated to training them? "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2123	Posted - 2014.10.24 12:42:00 - [32] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Chief-Shotty wrote: Not sure about boosting the RRA damage.....in the long run it still has a considerably longer range than other rifles...Which means even if its the lowest DPS wise, it still retains that consistent damage while the others would have falloff and consequently be less the RRA at a given distance. Sure the RRs are supposed to be range but not sure how much your willing to boost the CQC ability while still giving it a range advantage. And those rifles also put out more damage even with the proposed damage increase. That maybe so but the DPS difference is negligible where as the range difference is substantial. Like people keep saying, stats might suggest one thing but we have to balance this with field testing and live game scenarios. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 454	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:10:00 - [33] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Chief-Shotty wrote: Not sure about boosting the RRA damage.....in the long run it still has a considerably longer range than other rifles...Which means even if its the lowest DPS wise, it still retains that consistent damage while the others would have falloff and consequently be less the RRA at a given distance. Sure the RRs are supposed to be range but not sure how much your willing to boost the CQC ability while still giving it a range advantage. And those rifles also put out more damage even with the proposed damage increase. That maybe so but the DPS difference is negligible where as the range difference is substantial. Like people keep saying, stats might suggest one thing but we have to balance this with field testing and live game scenarios. People will always look at the numbers and start crying before something is implemented. Remember when people said the Cal sentinel was OP before the release, because of the shield delay? How many Cal sentinels do you see on the field? Back on topic. People need to stop with the witch hunt on the RR. It's a good weapon but that's because it's equal on every suit while it's supposed to shine on the Cal assault, like all the racial rifles do on their suits (except the gal). Give the Cal a decent bonus to their weapon and you'll see far less RR's than you'll see now because it's less viable to run on the non racial suit.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3898	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:21:00 - [34] - Quote I remember when they said calsent would be OP. Now they try to say it sucks. In both cases: morons. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 508	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:39:00 - [35] - Quote Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 860	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:43:00 - [36] - Quote The only reason I use the Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle is because I have too much isk to care about and it has a cool name. A buff would be more than welcomed. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P2. 66-3 with Dual-Miltia Bolt Pistols. OP? OP.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1378	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:01:00 - [37] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. \o/ I am not alone !!!! The Cal bonus is awesome .. please leave it alone Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2014	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:08:00 - [38] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. ...what? Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1266	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:20:00 - [39] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. ...what? Yeah...i didn't get that either. The weapon / suit bonus should generally not be something you already have and SP sink for and the CalCommando and Assault have way to much overlap with the reload bonuses. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 270	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:47:00 - [40] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I agree completely. My Caldari Purist would finally have a reason to field the ARR instead of the base variant with the suggested changes. The other thing besides effectiveness of the ARR that stops me from using its price. If only CCP would get rid of the stupid price increase non-base variant weapons get. All it does is discourage diversity and punish less skilled players by forcing them to either unnecessarily lose ISK by using their preferred weapon variation, or stop using their favored variant so they can make more ISK (which has a detriment on the fun factor). Having a premium on side-grades seems a complete nuisance that adds absolutely nothing to the game. (just thought I'd vent a little, sorry) I share the same view. Even the assault variants that do perform well only get a niche usage from me anyway because the cost is too prohibitive. It should be the opposite. The bread and butter standard variants, like the base and the SB-39, these should cost more because they are an essential asset to any merc who has chosen to use RR. An ARR, even with the proposed changes, would still be detrimental to carry around for all situations. It lacks a scope, its recoil is different from the other variants, ect. Basically assault variants are more temperamental. The pricing should reflect that imo.

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 455	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:09:00 - [41] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. ...what? Yeah...i didn't get that either. The weapon / suit bonus should generally not be something you already have and SP sink for and the CalCommando and Assault have way to much overlap with the reload bonuses. You mean that the Galmando, Minmando and Ammando perform the same with the RR as my Cal assault, the suit it is designed for. This is not right. My Calmando certainly performs worse with the CR when I compared it with the Min assault. Cal assault needs a change in bonus period
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 612	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:53:00 - [42] - Quote OP is reading my mind. It's a new day for RR users, in which they can still dominate at range (though now dealing with ADS dispersion like the rest of us) but they better be ready to pull out their Ion Pistol if they get rushed cuz that babies gonna be bouncing round the room. It should be as bad at CQC as ARs are bad at longe range. The alternative to that dichotomy should be the ARR. Larger clip, faster ROF, significantly less range than RR, significantly better hipfire handling, slightly higher DPS. Less range would also bring its iron sights zoom into balance with its range. This is what the player base overmind wants.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 611	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:55:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I remember when they said calsent would be OP. Now they try to say it sucks. In both cases: morons. most people just dont know how to fit caldari suits in general lol
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 612	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:57:00 - [44] - Quote Faster ROF also makes Cal Assault bonus more useful with it. Balance and distinction of both RRs opens the door now for an additional Cal Assault bonus. Recoil is a good choice as long as you get the number right. 25% at proto might be OP.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 611	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:59:00 - [45] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Faster ROF also makes Cal Assault bonus more useful with it. Balance and distinction of both RRs opens the door now for an additional Cal Assault bonus. Recoil is a good choice as long as you get the number right. 25% at proto might be OP. 25% at proto is what i want
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 455	Posted - 2014.10.24 18:40:00 - [46] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Faster ROF also makes Cal Assault bonus more useful with it. Balance and distinction of both RRs opens the door now for an additional Cal Assault bonus. Recoil is a good choice as long as you get the number right. 25% at proto might be OP. 25% at proto is what i want Not OP since other assault suits bonus maxes out at 25%. Cal users shouldn't settle for less
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2017	Posted - 2014.10.24 20:13:00 - [47] - Quote To Rattati, are you in favor of bringing these changes live, and if so would it be possible to deploy in the balance hotfix? If not then I request the base RR changes be put on hold until they can be deployed together. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 455	Posted - 2014.10.24 20:42:00 - [48] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: To Rattati, are you in favor of bringing these changes live, and if so would it be possible to deploy in the balance hotfix? If not then I request the base RR changes be put on hold until they can be deployed together. This.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 424	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:10:00 - [49] - Quote I agree about the ARR, but would throw in the fact that the cause of the ARR's lack of use is due to the RR's ease of use?! There is currently no other long range weapon of its kind with full auto capabilities like the RR. Where's the Gallente long range weapon? Please don't say the Tac AR?! What about the minmatar? Also, any long range variant that any other race has(outranged by RR) is also semi- auto. This makes them harder to use, and requires more skill. The RR is the hard hitting easy mode rifle. Every noob in the game, who was brave enough to go assault or scout instead of heavy or logi, uses it?! Why isn't the RR semi-auto? This would make the ARR more prevelent, and would force them to choose between distance and damage. The same goes for AR's, CR's, and ScR's currently. So why is the RR special? The damage it puts out over the distance doesn't even taper or drop off?!?! It hits just as hard at 100m as it does at 10m?! The Tac AR may say 70+m, but trust me caldari shields barely notice they're being targeted at that range while at the same range they're creaming guys?! Change the RR, and the ARR will be used more. I agree with buffing the ARR a bit in the magazine department also. I don't think it needs more damage, but it looks weak in comparison to the long time OP champ the RR. History lesson: the only nerf the RR ever saw was when all the rifles in the rifle class were nerfed together. Making it not a nerf at all. "Anybody order chaos?"
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 171	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:29:00 - [50] - Quote Lmao yea the RR needs a buff because it under preforms?... come on really... The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk

Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 127	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:29:00 - [51] - Quote After reading this thread this morning I tried for one of the first times the ARR (I have prof 3 since so long and never even bother using it.) If 2k2y reads me, I'm not sure if he'd ask for a buff xD This weapon already kicks ass(I did more than a hundred kills and arround 5 deaths in only 4 matchs on a row), the only thing it needs is a bigger clip size/max ammo and maybe a range decrease to 60m as it's pretty hard to aim further with it anyway. In short: OP's right :) Sorry for my bad english.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 177	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:29:00 - [52] - Quote Lmao yea the RR needs a buff because it under preforms /rolls eyes... come on really... this thread is unreal and it will be even more unreal if the dev team eats it up. It isn't enough they have one of the most over powered weapons in the game. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1266	Posted - 2014.10.25 01:02:00 - [53] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: I History lesson: the only nerf the RR ever saw was when all the rifles in the rifle class were nerfed together. Making it not a nerf at all. Not accurate; they've incrementally lowered a few stats here and there including in the last hot fix. It's usually buried in spreadsheet info. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1143	Posted - 2014.10.25 01:16:00 - [54] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Zindorak wrote: Im for a ARR buff i actually like how it's not overpowered or really good like the RR My idea is for there to be a viable CQC option for Caldari. RR users should have to pick between CQC and long ranage, but having both is indeed OP, I freely admit that. But I don't want RR users to be forced to only have long range as options. The ARR should be the CQC option for us RR users. yas +1 Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9230	Posted - 2014.10.25 12:25:00 - [55] - Quote Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1267	Posted - 2014.10.25 15:35:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Thanks for listening to us, Rattati. Quick question...will the ARR retain the current recoil value or will it have the increased value you indicated for the RR in 1.9? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2094	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:14:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Wait. Did a person involved in CCP AND DUST just... li- gags, listen to players? I have been out of the loop for a while so is this a new thing or.... Great to hear that one of my favorite weapons (it sounds and 'feels' great to use) is getting a little love. Thanks. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2025	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:31:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Magazine from 42 to 58? Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Paladin Sas Pro Hic Immortalis 401	Posted - 2014.10.25 17:38:00 - [59] - Quote Just my .02 isk; ive been using the arr since i started specing into RRs in general, while i agree that it is the redheaded step child of rail tech, i find it much more agreeable than the standard rr in its ability to lay down a withering hail of bolts. its great to see it getting the tlc its needed and im happy that its being given an actual role instead of just the "other" RR. keep it up CCP
Stupid Blueberry Wirykomi Wolf Pack 523	Posted - 2014.10.25 18:50:00 - [60] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Good work, Alena. Long time RR specialists like Stephan Stahl and I have been advocating for adjustments similar to this for a while. One thing I would clearly add to the discussion...recoil. The proposed recoil increase in the weapon changes currently proposed would seriously impact usage. The RR and ARR already have the highest recoil level of any light weapon and that actually is quite counter intuitive to a weapon that is intended to do well at range. I would recommend also holding off on the increased recoil until the dust settles (seriously no pun) on the charge mechanic adjustment we all see how things function. I do like the idea of a SMG like reflex sight being added to the ARR but that's probably a bridge to far at the moment. Please no sights, I really, really like the IS on the ARR, it reminds me of the ar sights from chromosome Chillin, waitin on Legion. Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!

Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 35	Posted - 2014.10.25 18:56:00 - [61] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Magazine from 42 to 58? EDIT: And range decrease to 55-60m. I don't think it needs a range nerf, the lack of the scope is a "nerf" to the range enough. And it's not like there is a range disparity between the breach AR and the AR.
idlerowl Old-Type 19	Posted - 2014.10.25 20:57:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Thank you for hard work. I note ARR change for balance hotfix ===== charge up 0.25GåÆstay damage from 40 GåÆ 42 ammo capacitypÇÇ42 GåÆ range to pÇÇpÇÇ 100mGåÆ ===== Is that right ? Very nice thread.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4038	Posted - 2014.10.25 21:19:00 - [63] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Wait. Did a person involved in CCP AND DUST just... li- gags, listen to players? I have been out of the loop for a while so is this a new thing or.... Great to hear that one of my favorite weapons (it sounds and 'feels' great to use) is getting a little love. Thanks. Yes Mr. Ridgeson, say hello to CCP Rattati. He wasn't even a dev, but they decided to put him in charge of the ship. Best. Decision. Ever. This post is from 2013.10.23 CCP Rattati wrote: Hey OP, I just answered in another thread, but will repeat this once, only once. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417751#post1417751 I am the global head of FP&A at CCP, currently based in Iceland, and relocating with my family to Shanghai in January to help our efforts on Dust 514, joining CCP Rouge and the team there. Given that I am also a fanatic player, you might call me a true believer in Dust 514 and its potential. That said and done, I have opinions, usually as fact based as I can, which is one of the reasons I am here on the forums but I don't actually develop the game, but I can influence it. I only have one character, GA proto assault but after maxing out core skills (getting CPU L5 tonight), I gave up on the total specialization of one weapon and just went up to adv in most of them, not only to gain insight but also to enjoy different playstyles and tactical deployments. So I have a few points in all equipment, and hvy/scouts, that I use situationally (shotty uplink scout, defender heavy, etc) resulting in a god-awful mess of a fitting list like 1. GA ASS PRO SCR AS DMG, etc.... There is nothing that I love more than my fit that has 378/378 CPU & 79/79 PG, that's the way of the warrior Working on my heavy skills now (without SP investment), waiting for the GA heavy I have been practicing my aiming by only using the Imperial and Tac AR, but progress is slow and painful and destroying my KDR, I also play coop CODBOPS2 with the oldest boy to train mah twitchin' I have played every build since closed internal alpha, so I know the long way we have come since then, and how far we can still go, and guys, Chromo wasn't "that good" I am in a PC player corp and EVE alliance, though I don't play EVE Having kids makes me never able to hit the cap, and very rarely do PC. I am working on that though. Does that cover it...? And I used the PLC way before it was cool Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2028	Posted - 2014.10.26 02:28:00 - [64] - Quote Out of curiosity Rattati, did you remember/look up the other things you were doing to the ARR? Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2028	Posted - 2014.10.26 19:27:00 - [65] - Quote Rattati... Senpai? Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Middas Betancore Kirjuun Heiian 108	Posted - 2014.10.27 00:44:00 - [66] - Quote Nice thread, short story, AAR is MY light weapon, love it on all my fits except sentinel Im gonna see how the next hotfix pans out before getting into performance 2 points Dmg% difference between adv and proto AAR is only 2.5% (1 dmg), compared to other weapons that have 5% increases at same meta difference. So for 60k isk (or xxLP) more im not getting much incentive to use proto AAR. (except that it's sexy black and red) So a lot of my proto dropsuits carry adv AAR Second more is more a brief appeal for variants of weapons to get a price nerf The part that gets me is 10k isk for Adv SB-39 RR 17k isk for Adv SL-4 AAR 70% increase for a variant... Please consider a price nerf, it can really put off a player to use variants. Thanks for all your continuing hard work CEO-Kirjuun Heiian-Caldari Faction Warfare Corp Join our public chat channel. Kirjuun Heiian
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2266	Posted - 2014.10.27 14:35:00 - [67] - Quote +1 OP. Good changes and puts the ARR in a sensible place wrt the base weapon as well as the other race's damage/range. PSN: RationalSpark
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1272	Posted - 2014.10.27 14:56:00 - [68] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: Nice thread, short story, AAR is MY light weapon, love it on all my fits except sentinel Im gonna see how the next hotfix pans out before getting into performance 2 points Dmg% difference between adv and proto AAR is only 2.2%?? (1 dmg), compared to other weapons that have 5% increases at same meta difference. So for 60k isk (or xxLP) more im not getting much incentive to use proto AAR. (except that it's sexy black and red) So a lot of my proto dropsuits carry adv AAR Second more is more a brief appeal for variants of weapons to get a price nerf The part that gets me is 10k isk for Adv SB-39 RR 17k isk for Adv SL-4 AAR 70% increase for a variant... Please consider a price nerf, it can really put off a player to use variants. Thanks for all your continuing hard work Middas...you've captured a big part of why the SB-39 is the highest selling weapon in Dust I suspect. It's closest to proto performance in class for 60K ISK less the price. I also agree that the variant weapon prices might need a bit of adjustment as well. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 520	Posted - 2014.10.27 20:27:00 - [69] - Quote 3,100 hours plus logged here.. Stop messing with the Caldari Assault Bonus it is fine! I rather you look into a kick modifier for Scout, Assault and Commando based on suit size. Where the larger suits get less of a kick then the smaller class suits. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2050	Posted - 2014.10.27 22:57:00 - [70] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: 3,100 hours plus logged here.. Stop messing with the Caldari Assault Bonus it is fine! I rather you look into a kick modifier for Scout, Assault and Commando based on suit size. Where the larger suits get less of a kick then the smaller class suits. Wrong thread, kemosabe. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.

Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 291	Posted - 2014.10.28 14:02:00 - [71] - Quote Ascr is weaker by far no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil


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