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To Rattati: ARR and CQC

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2123	Posted - 2014.10.24 12:41:00 - [31] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: thing is, we have been making iterations to rifles since Alpha, and we are not there yet. But there is a long term plan to get to a place where everything makes sense and players pick weapons based on preferred playstyles, not because it's dumb to use anything other than "OP weapon X" Sweetness, that is the EXACTLY right design philosophy! 07 CCP stick to it and it'll bring great results. Exactly, but lets be honest with ourselves, we are certainly not quite there yet. Still I appreciate 90% of what Rattati has been doing and what he will continue to do. I might not always agree with stuff but it does appear he wants what is best for the game. Now on an unrelated subject, how about a little more emphasis on the new players, their new player experience and maybe someway to introduce new players to the corps that are dedicated to training them? "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2123	Posted - 2014.10.24 12:42:00 - [32] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Chief-Shotty wrote: Not sure about boosting the RRA damage.....in the long run it still has a considerably longer range than other rifles...Which means even if its the lowest DPS wise, it still retains that consistent damage while the others would have falloff and consequently be less the RRA at a given distance. Sure the RRs are supposed to be range but not sure how much your willing to boost the CQC ability while still giving it a range advantage. And those rifles also put out more damage even with the proposed damage increase. That maybe so but the DPS difference is negligible where as the range difference is substantial. Like people keep saying, stats might suggest one thing but we have to balance this with field testing and live game scenarios. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 454	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:10:00 - [33] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Chief-Shotty wrote: Not sure about boosting the RRA damage.....in the long run it still has a considerably longer range than other rifles...Which means even if its the lowest DPS wise, it still retains that consistent damage while the others would have falloff and consequently be less the RRA at a given distance. Sure the RRs are supposed to be range but not sure how much your willing to boost the CQC ability while still giving it a range advantage. And those rifles also put out more damage even with the proposed damage increase. That maybe so but the DPS difference is negligible where as the range difference is substantial. Like people keep saying, stats might suggest one thing but we have to balance this with field testing and live game scenarios. People will always look at the numbers and start crying before something is implemented. Remember when people said the Cal sentinel was OP before the release, because of the shield delay? How many Cal sentinels do you see on the field? Back on topic. People need to stop with the witch hunt on the RR. It's a good weapon but that's because it's equal on every suit while it's supposed to shine on the Cal assault, like all the racial rifles do on their suits (except the gal). Give the Cal a decent bonus to their weapon and you'll see far less RR's than you'll see now because it's less viable to run on the non racial suit.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3898	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:21:00 - [34] - Quote I remember when they said calsent would be OP. Now they try to say it sucks. In both cases: morons. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 508	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:39:00 - [35] - Quote Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 860	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:43:00 - [36] - Quote The only reason I use the Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle is because I have too much isk to care about and it has a cool name. A buff would be more than welcomed. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P2. 66-3 with Dual-Miltia Bolt Pistols. OP? OP.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1378	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:01:00 - [37] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. \o/ I am not alone !!!! The Cal bonus is awesome .. please leave it alone Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2014	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:08:00 - [38] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. ...what? Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1266	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:20:00 - [39] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. ...what? Yeah...i didn't get that either. The weapon / suit bonus should generally not be something you already have and SP sink for and the CalCommando and Assault have way to much overlap with the reload bonuses. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 270	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:47:00 - [40] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I agree completely. My Caldari Purist would finally have a reason to field the ARR instead of the base variant with the suggested changes. The other thing besides effectiveness of the ARR that stops me from using its price. If only CCP would get rid of the stupid price increase non-base variant weapons get. All it does is discourage diversity and punish less skilled players by forcing them to either unnecessarily lose ISK by using their preferred weapon variation, or stop using their favored variant so they can make more ISK (which has a detriment on the fun factor). Having a premium on side-grades seems a complete nuisance that adds absolutely nothing to the game. (just thought I'd vent a little, sorry) I share the same view. Even the assault variants that do perform well only get a niche usage from me anyway because the cost is too prohibitive. It should be the opposite. The bread and butter standard variants, like the base and the SB-39, these should cost more because they are an essential asset to any merc who has chosen to use RR. An ARR, even with the proposed changes, would still be detrimental to carry around for all situations. It lacks a scope, its recoil is different from the other variants, ect. Basically assault variants are more temperamental. The pricing should reflect that imo.

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 455	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:09:00 - [41] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Remove the reload bonus from the Assault Cal Suit for the rail riffle and I'd probley biomass my toon. The bonus is fine just the way it is.. ...what? Yeah...i didn't get that either. The weapon / suit bonus should generally not be something you already have and SP sink for and the CalCommando and Assault have way to much overlap with the reload bonuses. You mean that the Galmando, Minmando and Ammando perform the same with the RR as my Cal assault, the suit it is designed for. This is not right. My Calmando certainly performs worse with the CR when I compared it with the Min assault. Cal assault needs a change in bonus period
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 612	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:53:00 - [42] - Quote OP is reading my mind. It's a new day for RR users, in which they can still dominate at range (though now dealing with ADS dispersion like the rest of us) but they better be ready to pull out their Ion Pistol if they get rushed cuz that babies gonna be bouncing round the room. It should be as bad at CQC as ARs are bad at longe range. The alternative to that dichotomy should be the ARR. Larger clip, faster ROF, significantly less range than RR, significantly better hipfire handling, slightly higher DPS. Less range would also bring its iron sights zoom into balance with its range. This is what the player base overmind wants.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 611	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:55:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I remember when they said calsent would be OP. Now they try to say it sucks. In both cases: morons. most people just dont know how to fit caldari suits in general lol
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 612	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:57:00 - [44] - Quote Faster ROF also makes Cal Assault bonus more useful with it. Balance and distinction of both RRs opens the door now for an additional Cal Assault bonus. Recoil is a good choice as long as you get the number right. 25% at proto might be OP.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 611	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:59:00 - [45] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Faster ROF also makes Cal Assault bonus more useful with it. Balance and distinction of both RRs opens the door now for an additional Cal Assault bonus. Recoil is a good choice as long as you get the number right. 25% at proto might be OP. 25% at proto is what i want
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 455	Posted - 2014.10.24 18:40:00 - [46] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Faster ROF also makes Cal Assault bonus more useful with it. Balance and distinction of both RRs opens the door now for an additional Cal Assault bonus. Recoil is a good choice as long as you get the number right. 25% at proto might be OP. 25% at proto is what i want Not OP since other assault suits bonus maxes out at 25%. Cal users shouldn't settle for less
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2017	Posted - 2014.10.24 20:13:00 - [47] - Quote To Rattati, are you in favor of bringing these changes live, and if so would it be possible to deploy in the balance hotfix? If not then I request the base RR changes be put on hold until they can be deployed together. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 455	Posted - 2014.10.24 20:42:00 - [48] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: To Rattati, are you in favor of bringing these changes live, and if so would it be possible to deploy in the balance hotfix? If not then I request the base RR changes be put on hold until they can be deployed together. This.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 424	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:10:00 - [49] - Quote I agree about the ARR, but would throw in the fact that the cause of the ARR's lack of use is due to the RR's ease of use?! There is currently no other long range weapon of its kind with full auto capabilities like the RR. Where's the Gallente long range weapon? Please don't say the Tac AR?! What about the minmatar? Also, any long range variant that any other race has(outranged by RR) is also semi- auto. This makes them harder to use, and requires more skill. The RR is the hard hitting easy mode rifle. Every noob in the game, who was brave enough to go assault or scout instead of heavy or logi, uses it?! Why isn't the RR semi-auto? This would make the ARR more prevelent, and would force them to choose between distance and damage. The same goes for AR's, CR's, and ScR's currently. So why is the RR special? The damage it puts out over the distance doesn't even taper or drop off?!?! It hits just as hard at 100m as it does at 10m?! The Tac AR may say 70+m, but trust me caldari shields barely notice they're being targeted at that range while at the same range they're creaming guys?! Change the RR, and the ARR will be used more. I agree with buffing the ARR a bit in the magazine department also. I don't think it needs more damage, but it looks weak in comparison to the long time OP champ the RR. History lesson: the only nerf the RR ever saw was when all the rifles in the rifle class were nerfed together. Making it not a nerf at all. "Anybody order chaos?"
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 171	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:29:00 - [50] - Quote Lmao yea the RR needs a buff because it under preforms?... come on really... The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk

Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 127	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:29:00 - [51] - Quote After reading this thread this morning I tried for one of the first times the ARR (I have prof 3 since so long and never even bother using it.) If 2k2y reads me, I'm not sure if he'd ask for a buff xD This weapon already kicks ass(I did more than a hundred kills and arround 5 deaths in only 4 matchs on a row), the only thing it needs is a bigger clip size/max ammo and maybe a range decrease to 60m as it's pretty hard to aim further with it anyway. In short: OP's right :) Sorry for my bad english.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 177	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:29:00 - [52] - Quote Lmao yea the RR needs a buff because it under preforms /rolls eyes... come on really... this thread is unreal and it will be even more unreal if the dev team eats it up. It isn't enough they have one of the most over powered weapons in the game. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1266	Posted - 2014.10.25 01:02:00 - [53] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: I History lesson: the only nerf the RR ever saw was when all the rifles in the rifle class were nerfed together. Making it not a nerf at all. Not accurate; they've incrementally lowered a few stats here and there including in the last hot fix. It's usually buried in spreadsheet info. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1143	Posted - 2014.10.25 01:16:00 - [54] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Zindorak wrote: Im for a ARR buff i actually like how it's not overpowered or really good like the RR My idea is for there to be a viable CQC option for Caldari. RR users should have to pick between CQC and long ranage, but having both is indeed OP, I freely admit that. But I don't want RR users to be forced to only have long range as options. The ARR should be the CQC option for us RR users. yas +1 Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9230	Posted - 2014.10.25 12:25:00 - [55] - Quote Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1267	Posted - 2014.10.25 15:35:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Thanks for listening to us, Rattati. Quick question...will the ARR retain the current recoil value or will it have the increased value you indicated for the RR in 1.9? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2094	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:14:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Wait. Did a person involved in CCP AND DUST just... li- gags, listen to players? I have been out of the loop for a while so is this a new thing or.... Great to hear that one of my favorite weapons (it sounds and 'feels' great to use) is getting a little love. Thanks. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2025	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:31:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. Magazine from 42 to 58? Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Paladin Sas Pro Hic Immortalis 401	Posted - 2014.10.25 17:38:00 - [59] - Quote Just my .02 isk; ive been using the arr since i started specing into RRs in general, while i agree that it is the redheaded step child of rail tech, i find it much more agreeable than the standard rr in its ability to lay down a withering hail of bolts. its great to see it getting the tlc its needed and im happy that its being given an actual role instead of just the "other" RR. keep it up CCP
Stupid Blueberry Wirykomi Wolf Pack 523	Posted - 2014.10.25 18:50:00 - [60] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Good work, Alena. Long time RR specialists like Stephan Stahl and I have been advocating for adjustments similar to this for a while. One thing I would clearly add to the discussion...recoil. The proposed recoil increase in the weapon changes currently proposed would seriously impact usage. The RR and ARR already have the highest recoil level of any light weapon and that actually is quite counter intuitive to a weapon that is intended to do well at range. I would recommend also holding off on the increased recoil until the dust settles (seriously no pun) on the charge mechanic adjustment we all see how things function. I do like the idea of a SMG like reflex sight being added to the ARR but that's probably a bridge to far at the moment. Please no sights, I really, really like the IS on the ARR, it reminds me of the ar sights from chromosome Chillin, waitin on Legion. Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!



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