DUST Search - To Rattati: ARR and CQC

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Rattati,

You seem to be of a mind to reduce the rail rifle's effectiveness in CQC. Currently I stand against this change. It is not that I think the RR should be good in CQC. However, the CQC RR option, the ARR, is vastly inferior to other rifle options. I will list out some problems I find with it:

1. Ammo capacity is the same for the RR and ARR, meaning far less damage per magazine (2171.4 for proto RR and 1680 for ARR)

2. Range is nearly identical for RR and ARR. RR is 73m, ARR is 71m. Optimal was tested by aiming at an installation with an efficiency reading of 9%, and backing up until efficiency dropped to 8%. The breaking point between these was considered the optimal range for my tests. the ARR also has no zoom nor a scope, meaning taking advantage of this range is far more difficult.

3. DPS is almost exactly the same. 397 for RR, 400 for ARR.

This means that there is almost no situation where the ARR outshines the RR. The faster ROF means that you eat ammo faster, and with the same magazine size as the RR, that means the RR is better in CQC. This is because since the ARR shoots faster, you lose more shots if your not on target than with the RR. The harder hitting slower firing RR gives more time to readjust before too many rounds have missed.

I propose the changes thus. All damage numbers assume proto level.

1. Increase ammo capacity from 42 to 58.

2. Increase damage from 40 to 42. This brings DPS to 420. By comparison, ACR has 436.6 DPS and PR has DPS of 453.2. This is as it should be, the ARR should have lowest DPS of the Assault variants.

- The damage per mag with both of these will be 2436.

3. Decrease range to 55-60m. Whichever makes it the longest ranged Assault variant while still substantially lower than the base RR optimal.

4. Keep charge time the same as it is currently. ie: Increase charge time for the base RR, and keep the ARR where it is now.

With these changes, the ARR now has a niche, and Caldari have a CQC variant that doesn't outperform the other lower range rifles. With this change, I would fully support The changes to the RR you proposed in your thread here.

Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :(

"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9139	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:53:00 - [1] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Rattati, You seem to be of a mind to reduce the rail rifle's effectiveness in CQC. Currently I stand against this change. It is not that I think the RR should be good in CQC. However, the CQC RR option, the ARR, is vastly inferior to other rifle options. I will list out some problems I find with it: 1. Ammo capacity is the same for the RR and ARR, meaning far less damage per magazine (2171.4 for proto RR and 1680 for ARR) 2. Range is nearly identical for RR and ARR. RR is 73m, ARR is 71m. Optimal was tested by aiming at an installation with an efficiency reading of 9%, and backing up until efficiency dropped to 8%. The breaking point between these was considered the optimal range for my tests. the ARR also has no zoom nor a scope, meaning taking advantage of this range is far more difficult. 3. DPS is almost exactly the same. 397 for RR, 400 for ARR. This means that there is almost no situation where the ARR outshines the RR. The faster ROF means that you eat ammo faster, and with the same magazine size as the RR, that means the RR is better in CQC. This is because since the ARR shoots faster, you lose more shots if your not on target than with the RR. The harder hitting slower firing RR gives more time to readjust before too many rounds have missed. I propose the changes thus. All damage numbers assume proto level. 1. Increase ammo capacity from 42 to 58. 2. Increase damage from 40 to 42. This brings DPS to 420. By comparison, ACR has 436.6 DPS and PR has DPS of 453.2. This is as it should be, the ARR should have lowest DPS of the Assault variants. - The damage per mag with both of these will be 2436. 3. Decrease range to 55-60m. Whichever makes it the longest ranged Assault variant while still substantially lower than the base RR optimal. 4. Keep charge time the same as it is currently. ie: Increase charge time for the base RR, and keep the ARR where it is now. With these changes, the ARR now has a niche, and Caldari have a CQC variant that doesn't outperform the other lower range rifles. With this change, I would fully support The changes to the RR you proposed in your thread here. Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( I am looking at this right now "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9139	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:54:00 - [2] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Constructive criticism is appreciated. I also made a spreadsheet in google docs since Rattati seems to like them, but I am unsure of how to save it to post here. :( It saves automatically, then you have to go to File and Sharing, then in the top right cornere there is a "share with link" option, press that, copy the link and Done. Paste the path here and people can press the link and open it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9148	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:12:00 - [3] - Quote I like all these changes, both the reasoning and the fact that the ARR needs a little buff anyway. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9148	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:17:00 - [4] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the points youve made about the ARR are exactly why i dont use it. and ive mentioned this over and over before that the ARR doesnt even follow the same template as the other assault variants. increased ROF increased max ammo increased clip size decreased damage per shot decreased range the ARR doesnt follow this. except for completely negligible stats differences of 3 units or less. what does the data say about its use? i barely see it used ever thing is, we have been making iterations to rifles since Alpha, and we are not there yet. But there is a long term plan to get to a place where everything makes sense and players pick weapons based on preferred playstyles, not because it's dumb to use anything other than "OP weapon X" "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9230	Posted - 2014.10.25 12:25:00 - [5] - Quote Many of these changes will be implemented on Tuesday, with the rest. ARR keeps it's chargeup at old value, Damage increased to 40 and 42, and something else I can't remember, writing this from a hotel room in Bejing. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"