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KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2469	Posted - 2014.10.23 19:49:00 - [1] - Quote I have been using the laser on my amarr alt quite a bit lately. Properly fitted aswell with 3 damage mods, proficiency, amarr assault, and viziam. Just wondering what everyone thinks of it in it's current state. Personally I think it needs a slight range buff to compete with the RR at range, but thats just me. Also I would prefer if it would scale it's damage more towards the end of it's range. Upclose it seems far better than it used to be, which is unexpected. Is the coding for how the damage scales a function of time, heat, and distance? If so I would prefer an exponential curve rather that flattens out in the optimal range than the constant curve it seems to have. Since we are balancing off of numbers, what are the KD's and such of people using the laser? I barely see anyone else using them (maybe one person every 4 games). ?
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 215	Posted - 2014.10.23 20:03:00 - [2] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: I have been using the laser on my amarr alt quite a bit lately. Properly fitted aswell with 3 damage mods, proficiency, amarr assault, and viziam. Just wondering what everyone thinks of it in it's current state. Personally I think it needs a slight range buff to compete with the RR at range, but thats just me. Also I would prefer if it would scale it's damage more towards the end of it's range. Upclose it seems far better than it used to be, which is unexpected. Is the coding for how the damage scales a function of time, heat, and distance? If so I would prefer an exponential curve rather that flattens out in the optimal range than the constant curve it seems to have. Since we are balancing off of numbers, what are the KD's and such of people using the laser? I barely see anyone else using them (maybe one person every 4 games). I just love humiliating caldari assaults with my militia laser hahaha. 40 kills with the most basic, cheapest possible dual-wielding standard Bolt Pistol fit...
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 164	Posted - 2014.10.23 20:10:00 - [3] - Quote It scales with heat, but yea seems a lil weak long rang ak commando The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 166	Posted - 2014.10.23 20:10:00 - [4] - Quote It scales with heat, but yea seems a lil weak long rang ak commando The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3880	Posted - 2014.10.23 21:43:00 - [5] - Quote Traditional laser combat method: Aim away. Heat laser. Sweep to target head. Enjoy near-instapop. If you holdthe laser on them from first trigger pull they tend to buy the hint and hide. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2469	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:18:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Traditional laser combat method: Aim away. Heat laser. Sweep to target head. Enjoy near-instapop. If you holdthe laser on them from first trigger pull they tend to buy the hint and hide. Yeah no **** shurlock. But seriously there are quite a few times that the rail rifle could do the job much better, but my alt is 100% amarr. ?
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:21:00 - [7] - Quote Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 259	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:26:00 - [8] - Quote For the love of the divine empress DO NOT buff my mistress again she is still recovering yet from a manic psycho laughter fit after running 72/2 yesterday. Unfortunately my mistress has not recovered but would you like some play full pics of laser rifle stomps ? no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1138	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:26:00 - [9] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. Also you aren't a scrub with the LR unlike the RR Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 259	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:27:00 - [10] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. Yes yes this right here We are way stronger than rr more range MOAR POWER no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil

Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 259	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:29:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Traditional laser combat method: Aim away. Heat laser. Sweep to target head. Enjoy near-instapop. If you holdthe laser on them from first trigger pull they tend to buy the hint and hide. odd I hardy ever precooked anymore depends on the target but usually pre cooking is not necessary no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 260	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:39:00 - [12] - Quote http://m.imgur.com/hM8qVjh http://m.imgur.com/2zn7VgN http://m.imgur.com/FpccWrJ http://m.imgur.com/77B3nXm http://m.imgur.com/kSPOk56 http://m.imgur.com/d8kgYhu just a few that were on my phone no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 260	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:48:00 - [13] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: It scales with heat, but yea seems a lil weak long rang ak commando Well u just said the problem right there stop using it on a commando no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Abe Foster Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 67	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:11:00 - [14] - Quote My fellow merc told me that using a mouse and keyboard works better with more fine tuning. Ishukone Nova Knifes cut thought heavies like butter.
KrazyEyeKilla Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 34	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:17:00 - [15] - Quote Would love to see the original scope back.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3893	Posted - 2014.10.24 07:56:00 - [16] - Quote Laser rifles and mass drivers are tge only true suppression weapons in DUST. In the right hands they're lethal in a way you would never believe. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4256	Posted - 2014.10.24 13:41:00 - [17] - Quote I'd also like the damage/range curve to be a little less harsh, myself. Maybe an extra 5m on the optimal. Otherwise it's in a pretty good place now. It's obviously a niche weapon that you always need to mind your engagement range when using, unlike the scrubs best friend RR. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 173	Posted - 2014.10.24 13:49:00 - [18] - Quote laser is fine as it is, functioning efficiently no change needed. Source: Manammarboar says so NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3895	Posted - 2014.10.24 13:55:00 - [19] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: laser is fine as it is, functioning efficiently no change needed. Source: Manammarboar says so The only thing you need to make the laser into a lethal weapon is patience. Once you learn it you will watch people scream with rage as they melt then send you hatemail. Cherish the hatemail. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jebus McKing lol Proto 797	Posted - 2014.10.24 15:20:00 - [20] - Quote The only thing I would change about the LR is giving it a bit more effective range so that it doesn't go from full damage to 0% within 10m. But even without this change the LR seems fine the way it is. DUST514 is love // @JebusMcKing

Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 48	Posted - 2014.10.24 16:18:00 - [21] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I'd also like the damage/range curve to be a little less harsh, myself. Maybe an extra 5m on the optimal. Otherwise it's in a pretty good place now. It's obviously a niche weapon that you always need to mind your engagement range when using, unlike the scrubs best friend RR. (tbh that's actually my main complaint with it: the beam is just so loud and visible, it's like shouting "hey I'm over here!" constantly... Unlike the RR which was designed by ninjas with invisible fcking bullets and is completely silent from more than 30m away) As both the father of tactical logistics, and the author of the laser rifle guide, what do you think of the LR+AmLogi combination? The LR was probably my favorite gun in beta, and I'm quite diehard pro-Amarr suits (they just look better, after all), and I'd like to actually put this into use. Breakin Stuff wrote:* Cherish the hatemail. This should be part of your sig. Also, nerf goldfish. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2130	Posted - 2014.10.24 16:19:00 - [22] - Quote Its nice and it can do ok but I find it has many problems. I agree that it does need a little more range, I also hate the fact that you have 2 engagement options with it. A. You attack at first sight but because the initial startup damage is so low, people are usually behind cover or out of the way before you can kill them. It ends up being the assist rifle. or B. You precharge it up against an unsuspecting enemy by firing at a wall or something, then swing the beam into their head and try n take them out real fast. While this does work fairly well, it means you are absolutely chomping through your available ammo. Something no other gun has to contend with :( "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 48	Posted - 2014.10.24 16:22:00 - [23] - Quote Well, mass drivers have the same ammo limitation problem; it really just ends up washing out, IMO, since everybody can carry nanos. Of course, that's not to say that everybody should carry nanos... but I digress. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
Amanda Strikeforce 0	Posted - 2014.10.24 16:51:00 - [24] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: I have been using the laser on my amarr alt quite a bit lately. Properly fitted aswell with 3 damage mods, proficiency, amarr assault, and viziam. Just wondering what everyone thinks of it in it's current state. Personally I think it needs a slight range buff to compete with the RR at range, but thats just me. Also I would prefer if it would scale it's damage more towards the end of it's range. Upclose it seems far better than it used to be, which is unexpected. Is the coding for how the damage scales a function of time, heat, and distance? If so I would prefer an exponential curve rather that flattens out in the optimal range than the constant curve it seems to have. Since we are balancing off of numbers, what are the KD's and such of people using the laser? I barely see anyone else using them (maybe one person every 4 games). Amanda thinks they are a great weapon to use against reds out in the open (especially against heavy's). But they are not so good against strafing scouts at close range. oh by the way...I'm a dude, Amanda Strikeforce is just a character I made up :)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4258	Posted - 2014.10.24 17:33:00 - [25] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I'd also like the damage/range curve to be a little less harsh, myself. Maybe an extra 5m on the optimal. Otherwise it's in a pretty good place now. It's obviously a niche weapon that you always need to mind your engagement range when using, unlike the scrubs best friend RR. (tbh that's actually my main complaint with it: the beam is just so loud and visible, it's like shouting "hey I'm over here!" constantly... Unlike the RR which was designed by ninjas with invisible fcking bullets and is completely silent from more than 30m away) As both the father of tactical logistics, and the author of the laser rifle guide, what do you think of the LR+AmLogi combination? The LR was probably my favorite gun in beta, and I'm quite diehard pro-Amarr suits (they just look better, after all), and I'd like to actually put this into use. A major reason I am the godfather of tactical logistics*Gäó(lol) is that I definitely do not have the raw gungame of a Mortedeamor or Viktor. As such I personally find I need the Amarr assault bonus to really do well with it. It's also not a great choice for the two roles I generally find myself in: tight frontline support or lonewolf infiltrator logi. (Attracts too much attention when you are all alone and is not flexible enough to be a great complement to following around the big boys in close quarters.) When I feel like burning heretics I grab my assault suit. I do have one fit still with an LR on my Amarr logi, but I use it less and less for various reasons, the biggest one is probably that the more I got used to the assault bonus the more I tended to overheat in the logi suit as my internal timer is set to the assault. I understand the weapon and can explain it's use pretty well (I am in large part an educator by trade IRL) but sadly that does not directly translate into being a killing machine. If I remember correctly, Morte uses an Amarr logi a fair amount of the time and seems to do pretty well. If you have solid gungame I'd say it is a very viable fit. Wouldn't recommend it for any of the non-sidearm logi suits, of course. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 60	Posted - 2014.10.24 23:50:00 - [26] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. I was fairly certain the optimal was 65-105m, and it falls off very after that. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 126	Posted - 2014.10.25 00:02:00 - [27] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. I was fairly certain the optimal was 65-105m, and it falls off very after that. Its efficacy drops sharply once outside of its optimal. Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 270	Posted - 2014.10.25 02:05:00 - [28] - Quote I think the LR is in a pretty good place. I agree that the optimal and the effective range should be very close to eachother though. The gun makes more sense in combat like that. Outside of that -- the damage is NOT based on heat as a lot of y'all have stated. It is based on time fired. Now the above is just my opinion -- but in my experience the following happens. I shoot at and melt a target. I am at 85% heat when he dies. I stop shooting switch targets and start firing. I am at 60% heat or so when I start shooting. I am doing the same damage I did when I was at 0% heat. So it feels to me that constant firing increases damage - but that stopping firing for even a second resets the damage despite heat. Just my opinion though.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4262	Posted - 2014.10.25 02:14:00 - [29] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. I was fairly certain the optimal was 65-105m, and it falls off very after that. Its efficacy drops sharply once outside of its optimal. Huh, missed that. Yes, the optimal is definitely not 150. The effective is only 110. Here is Musta Tornius' very thorough testing of the weapon. Admittedly, he didn't really get into the range profile post-1.8, but the effective range is known to be 110. Fanfest happened and so I never really got a chance to talk/work with them about the "new" range/damage curve, which supposedly made it so that it was more effective at closer ranges, at least according to the devs, though they were light on details. Never could get Wolfman to come out of his cave and tell us what the exact change was. Nonetheless, it wasn't presented as some kind of total overhaul, so I suspect you probably just take the original damage curve, and stretch it slightly so the plateau is a little wider, ending at 105. My guess is that the origin on the y axis is also higher now, that would seem to be the easiest way to make it work better at close range. But I'm not really sure TBH. ...and while I'm linking threads, might as well pimp my LR guide too. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4262	Posted - 2014.10.25 02:19:00 - [30] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I think the LR is in a pretty good place. I agree that the optimal and the effective range should be very close to eachother though. The gun makes more sense in combat like that. Outside of that -- the damage is NOT based on heat as a lot of y'all have stated. It is based on time fired. Now the above is just my opinion -- but in my experience the following happens. I shoot at and melt a target. I am at 85% heat when he dies. I stop shooting switch targets and start firing. I am at 60% heat or so when I start shooting. I am doing the same damage I did when I was at 0% heat. So it feels to me that constant firing increases damage - but that stopping firing for even a second resets the damage despite heat. Just my opinion though. You are correct. Letting go of the trigger for even an instant resets the damage output. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2469	Posted - 2014.10.25 02:44:00 - [31] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. I was fairly certain the optimal was 65-105m, and it falls off very after that. Its efficacy drops sharply once outside of its optimal. Huh, missed that. Yes, the optimal is definitely not 150. The effective is only 110. Here is Musta Tornius' very thorough testing of the weapon. Admittedly, he didn't really get into the range profile post-1.8, but the effective range is known to be 110. Fanfest happened and so I never really got a chance to talk/work with them about the "new" range/damage curve, which supposedly made it so that it was more effective at closer ranges, at least according to the devs, though they were light on details. Never could get Wolfman to come out of his cave and tell us what the exact change was. Nonetheless, it wasn't presented as some kind of total overhaul, so I suspect you probably just take the original damage curve, and stretch it slightly so the plateau is a little wider, ending at 105. My guess is that the origin on the y axis is also higher now, that would seem to be the easiest way to make it work better at close range. But I'm not really sure TBH. ...and while I'm linking threads, might as well pimp my LR guide too. Nice Post. That graph explains a lot of what I am seeing on the battlefield. I just wish that plateau would extend a little further out. I still stand by my point that it seems too good up close. If only we had the chart from chromosome when the laser was made UBER OP by sharpshooter and sharpshooter proficiency. I also feel it is obligatory to post this now that i have brought up Chromosome lasers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHr_mJn17xY ?
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2014.10.25 04:56:00 - [32] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: I was fairly certain the optimal was 65-105m, and it falls off very after that. It's entirely likely that I'm actually wrong about that, since I'll fully admit that it's been a while since I pulled out the laser rifle. I was on a bit of a long hiatus until just before Hotfix Delta, and then the sidearm event dropped and I was trying to do that... then I gave up on it because surprise scout from behind. Mostly been using a RR actually, since I despise the CR and still have a PTSD issue with the AR due to it outgunning the HMG during Chrome, and scrambler rifles are a catch 22 on the Amarr Logi since it can actually be a pretty good support weapon for stripping shields... but it's also the ultimate gridhog of ultimate gridhogs, which is bad for the AmLogi since it's so grid starved. RRs are a bit of a gridhog too, but they aren't quite as bad as scramblers. That said, I am thinking more and more that the laser and mass driver will probably be my AmLogi weapons of choice. Imp Smash wrote: Outside of that -- the damage is NOT based on heat as a lot of y'all have stated. It is based on time fired. Now the above is just my opinion -- but in my experience the following happens. I shoot at and melt a target. I am at 85% heat when he dies. I stop shooting switch targets and start firing. I am at 60% heat or so when I start shooting. I am doing the same damage I did when I was at 0% heat. So it feels to me that constant firing increases damage - but that stopping firing for even a second resets the damage despite heat. Oh, absolutely. It's a common misconception that the laser rifle's damage curve is based on heat buildup, but it really is the case that it's based on trigger time. The tooltip that (at least used to) appear(s) when you spawn in with it/pull it out even says something to that effect... but I did turn off the tooltips a while ago so I dunno. IIRC, it was actually empirically tested and proven that the laser rifle's damage curve is based on time-on-trigger rather than heat buildup. Kind of funny that DUST seems to have more empirical testing than almost any game, though perhaps it's because it's a game that presents a great deal of information, around 30-50% of which is impossible to understand given it's either a meaningless value or is given with insufficient information. And of course pretty much all of that is then mentioned by the esteemed Mr. Demonsbane just a few posts down. That being said, I couldn't find any concrete information on what the post-1.8 LR range profile is, but I am certain that the optimal is supposed to start at 50 meters, and then goes out to somewhere around 100+ meters. I think we may actually need to do some testing and then present our findings. Which will of course require lasering people in the face, so I think it'll be pretty entertaining. And of course, if the optimal doesn't extend to around 120-150 meters, then IMO it really should- the LR is unquestionably a long-range area denial-/murderlaser of doom- type of weapon, so it should quite handily (and noticeably) outrange a RR, which IIRC now sits at ~95 meter optimal range. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2014.10.25 05:55:00 - [33] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: A major reason I am the godfather of tactical logisticsGäó(lol) is that I definitely do not have the raw gungame of a Mortedeamor or Viktor. As such I personally find I need the Amarr assault bonus to really do well with it. It's also not a great choice for the two roles I generally find myself in: tight frontline support or lonewolf infiltrator logi. (Attracts too much attention when you are all alone and is not flexible enough to be a great complement to following around the big boys in close quarters.) When I feel like burning heretics I grab my assault suit. I do have one fit still with an LR on my Amarr logi, but I use it less and less for various reasons, the biggest one is probably that the more I got used to the assault bonus the more I tended to overheat in the logi suit as my internal timer is set to the assault. I understand the weapon and can explain it's use pretty well (I am in large part an educator by trade IRL) but sadly that does not directly translate into being a killing machine. If I remember correctly, Morte uses an Amarr logi a fair amount of the time and seems to do pretty well. If you have solid gungame I'd say it is a very viable fit. Wouldn't recommend it for any of the non-sidearm logi suits, of course. So, the main reason I decided to bring this up a bit (and also double post, because I am bad at forums or something), is because, since you seem like a pretty diehard Amarr Logi by trade, I'd like to pick your brain a little about light weapon choice for the Amarr Logi, mostly as it pertains to the grid starvation, er, limitations, of said suit. Of course, that's primarily because I'm in a bit of a dilemma; insofar as rifles go, I like the scrambler, but the AScR is just too expensive for my preference and the regular variant rapidly chugs down the extremely limited grid that I have at my disposal, I still have a little bit of AR 514 PTSD, the CR is okay-ish but I just dislike the sound... and it for some reason doesn't really look weighty enough to me. On the other light weapons, the LR and MD seem like pretty good, if much more situational, fits for the suit- my preference is eventually for the assault MD (because 8 rounds of ~6m hate-radius is awesome against, say, scrubby scouts) as far as explodey light weapons go. Swarms and sniper rifles are obviously very situational, while shotguns require you to be close, making them very limited and an AMD probably a better overall support oriented choice. Plasma cannons are pretty much the definition of skillshot, and while the total lack of grid requirement is theoretically nice for the Amarr Logi, I feel like the almost draconian CPU overhead is really hard to get around without taking light weapon ops to L5 as well as either sinking in SP all the way up to Prof IV and fitting optimization or using an assault suit** which would of course defeat the purpose of running a logi fit. And then there's my current preference of the RR (yeah, I know, I'm a scrublord or something), which isn't as harsh on grid as a scrambler but is still pretty rough. Quite frankly, I'm really at a loss as to what might be the best option for my preference. This also turned out a lot longer than a thought it would... oh well, I guess. As in, back when ARs outgunned HMGs at point blank. Which was also when heavies had a ridiculous price hike on their suits and weapons. Was a fairly unfun time to be a heavy, quite frankly. Also, the closed beta sound (and camera sights) was infinitely better than what we have now as far as ARs go. Needs moar bass. SMG kind of has the same problem IMO, while scrambler rifles just need more zap. Good scouts have a 50/50 chance to kill you anyway, I'd think. *Fun fact, you can get ~sixty-five* percent decrease in CPU usage by maxing light weapon ops, Plascan fitting optimization, and a racial assault suit of your choice. Which is also why assaults will always be amazing slayer suits and logis never will be again, since it can pretty drastically cut down on weapon fitting reqs allowing for more PG/CPU to be dedicated to tank. *****Yes, this is indeed a lot of asterisks. Aren't they pretty /derpface engaged Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4263	Posted - 2014.10.25 12:41:00 - [34] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: *****Yes, this is indeed a lot of asterisks. Aren't they pretty /derpface engaged You do appear to have asterisk prof 5, lol. Anyway, I am actually planning on trying out the AScR again once the "balance" hotfix comes through, sounds like it's going to be pretty awesome - it was always underrated, imo, and with even less dispersion than before and back to the old heat buildup it's going to be a nice precision weapon. I used it a ton before 1.7. In the meantime, though, you kinda talked yourself through what I've done, actually. I used the MD for a long time (particularly when everything else had broken hit detection) and it does work great on the Amarr logi suit, no question. (I don't particularly like the assault variant, the low splash damage kills it for me.) But, since, as you pointed out, PG is the killer of the Amarr suit, I use an ACR (used to use the STD CR but since it got nerfed I like the ACR better now) since it uses almost no PG at all. So, while it does get me some snide comments in the PIE channel sometimes, the absurdly low fitting costs are just too good to pass up. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 265	Posted - 2014.10.25 12:57:00 - [35] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I'd also like the damage/range curve to be a little less harsh, myself. Maybe an extra 5m on the optimal. Otherwise it's in a pretty good place now. It's obviously a niche weapon that you always need to mind your engagement range when using, unlike the scrubs best friend RR. (tbh that's actually my main complaint with it: the beam is just so loud and visible, it's like shouting "hey I'm over here!" constantly... Unlike the RR which was designed by ninjas with invisible fcking bullets and is completely silent from more than 30m away) As both the father of tactical logistics, and the author of the laser rifle guide, what do you think of the LR+AmLogi combination? The LR was probably my favorite gun in beta, and I'm quite diehard pro-Amarr suits (they just look better, after all), and I'd like to actually put this into use. A major reason I am the godfather of tactical logistics*Gäó(lol) is that I definitely do not have the raw gungame of a Mortedeamor or Viktor. As such I personally find I need the Amarr assault bonus to really do well with it. It's also not a great choice for the two roles I generally find myself in: tight frontline support or lonewolf infiltrator logi. (Attracts too much attention when you are all alone and is not flexible enough to be a great complement to following around the big boys in close quarters.) When I feel like burning heretics I grab my assault suit. I do have one fit still with an LR on my Amarr logi, but I use it less and less for various reasons, the biggest one is probably that the more I got used to the assault bonus the more I tended to overheat in the logi suit as my internal timer is set to the assault. I understand the weapon and can explain it's use pretty well (I am in large part an educator by trade IRL) but sadly that does not directly translate into being a killing machine. If I remember correctly, Morte uses an Amarr logi a fair amount of the time and seems to do pretty well. If you have solid gungame I'd say it is a very viable fit. Wouldn't recommend it for any of the non-sidearm logi suits, of course. My mistress wished me to express how utterly flattered she is John. But on a side note she ran lr smg amar logi for a long long time it's viable but hard lr is not a scrub weapon it requires some real skill unlike rr..you can't just pick it up and stomp with 0 gun game. I personally no longer run logi seriously fir anything other than equipment spam as its ridiculously underpowered but should it return my lr will be back for logistic use no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 128	Posted - 2014.10.25 13:12:00 - [36] - Quote I got some very good play in yesterday as a commando AK.0 with a viziam and a swarm launcher, 1 complex plate, 2 complex reps, damage mod and k-2 nanohive. Kept vehicles and Infantry well away from points on any map that was more open (manus peaks!) Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 238	Posted - 2014.10.25 13:49:00 - [37] - Quote slower ads sensitivity is all it needs. 44/4 in a BPO Scout (1.8) 40/5 in a Proto Assault (1.7) `- Open Beta Vet - 30.5mil sp -` R.I.P. Dust 514
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 267	Posted - 2014.10.25 14:24:00 - [38] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Protip: As a glorious Amarrian overlord, I can say that the laser rifle will rip the rail rifle apart due to the fact that the LR actually has an optimal range profile of 50-150 meters, instead of the lesser just-under-100 meter range profile of the RR. In case you're not sure what that means, it means you actually outrange the rail rifle if you carry a laser rifle. I was fairly certain the optimal was 65-105m, and it falls off very after that. Its efficacy drops sharply once outside of its optimal. Huh, missed that. Yes, the optimal is definitely not 150. The effective is only 110. Here is Musta Tornius' very thorough testing of the weapon. Admittedly, he didn't really get into the range profile post-1.8, but the effective range is known to be 110. Fanfest happened and so I never really got a chance to talk/work with them about the "new" range/damage curve, which supposedly made it so that it was more effective at closer ranges, at least according to the devs, though they were light on details. Never could get Wolfman to come out of his cave and tell us what the exact change was. Nonetheless, it wasn't presented as some kind of total overhaul, so I suspect you probably just take the original damage curve, and stretch it slightly so the plateau is a little wider, ending at 105. My guess is that the origin on the y axis is also higher now, that would seem to be the easiest way to make it work better at close range. But I'm not really sure TBH. ...and while I'm linking threads, might as well pimp my LR guide too. It's starts losing damage after 110m..but I've killed people at 140 twice recently scout snipers . You can kill anything 60 -110m and you should be doing over 70 % in cqc I am no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 267	Posted - 2014.10.25 14:28:00 - [39] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: slower ads sensitivity is all it needs. NOOO leave my ******* lr alone this thread is completely irrelevant lr is bloody well fine get good no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound 2420	Posted - 2014.10.25 14:36:00 - [40] - Quote ADS sensitivity is out of balance with other weapons in ADS. My best guess is when they increased the LR zoom a bit in 1.8 they didn't adjust the ADS sensitivity by the proportional amount. That's my biggest gripe. It could do with a small range buff, maybe extending the falloff by 10-15m or so, or bumping the optimal out by 5-10m. There are a TON of drawbacks to the LR, mainly because it's a fairly complicated weapon that is very situational. You're basically required to run a brick tanked Amarr assault suit with stacked damage mods and nano hives. It is the king of assists, which means you'll be getting much lower payouts. You are a highly visible target, who can't stray too far from your nano hive, and you're very slow. This makes you a perfect target for snipers, cloaked scouts, forge snipers and HMG heavies in LAVs. Your best bet is to get on a high point that requires a dropship and is the right distance from where the action is. If it's too close, you'll be destroyed by RRs, too far and you'll have to leave the safety of your perch which will pretty-much guarantee a shotgun to the back. You can't really dictate range, and instead have to react to the tactical situation on the ground. However, if you have good squad support and a squadmate with a scout hunter fit with high passive scan precision nearby, and you can get in that 100m sweetspot, you can really cause some serious pain. I'd really like to see that ADS sensitivity fixed though, that would make a huge difference. Best PvE idea ever!

Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 267	Posted - 2014.10.25 14:44:00 - [41] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: ADS sensitivity is out of balance with other weapons in ADS. My best guess is when they increased the LR zoom a bit in 1.8 they didn't adjust the ADS sensitivity by the proportional amount. That's my biggest gripe. It could do with a small range buff, maybe extending the falloff by 10-15m or so, or bumping the optimal out by 5-10m. There are a TON of drawbacks to the LR, mainly because it's a fairly complicated weapon that is very situational. You're basically required to run a brick tanked Amarr assault suit with stacked damage mods and nano hives. It is the king of assists, which means you'll be getting much lower payouts. You are a highly visible target, who can't stray too far from your nano hive, and you're very slow. This makes you a perfect target for snipers, cloaked scouts, forge snipers and HMG heavies in LAVs. Your best bet is to get on a high point that requires a dropship and is the right distance from where the action is. If it's too close, you'll be destroyed by RRs, too far and you'll have to leave the safety of your perch which will pretty-much guarantee a shotgun to the back. You can't really dictate range, and instead have to react to the tactical situation on the ground. However, if you have good squad support and a squadmate with a scout hunter fit with high passive scan precision nearby, and you can get in that 100m sweetspot, you can really cause some serious pain. I'd really like to see that ADS sensitivity fixed though, that would make a huge difference. It does not require brick tanked suits all My amar assaults have 636 armor max or you could get used to the sensitivity difference like the rest of the laser rifle users Me and Victor seem to do just fine with it As for heat up I've squeezed 2 proto suits into 1 beam ..I've killed 5 to 9 mediocre suits before reloading anyone who does poorly with lr has either a bad fit or bad aim the Gun is perfect no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 54	Posted - 2014.10.25 16:28:00 - [42] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: You do appear to have asterisk prof 5, lol. Yes, it would appear I do. I think I also have "KB/M Mythbuster Prof5" as well... but that's a whole 'nother can. John Demonsbane wrote: Anyway, I am actually planning on trying out the AScR again once the "balance" hotfix comes through, sounds like it's going to be pretty awesome - it was always underrated, imo, and with even less dispersion than before and back to the old heat buildup it's going to be a nice precision weapon. I used it a ton before 1.7. In the meantime, though, you kinda talked yourself through what I've done, actually. I used the MD for a long time (particularly when everything else had broken hit detection) and it does work great on the Amarr logi suit, no question. (I don't particularly like the assault variant, the low splash damage kills it for me.) But, since, as you pointed out, PG is the killer of the Amarr suit, I use an ACR (used to use the STD CR but since it got nerfed I like the ACR better now) since it uses almost no PG at all. So, while it does get me some snide comments in the PIE channel sometimes, the absurdly low fitting costs are just too good to pass up. Yeah, before the change way back when that brought a sidearm slot to all levels of AmLogi I actually ran the AScR on the suit. I guess what kills it for me is the same issue I have with the ARR and most of the rifle variants in that it just ends up feeling too pricey for the performance. Personally the assault MD offers the ultimate splash range to kill scouts, who are increasingly less-tanked these days... or at least tanked low enough that 75 rpm of 6m+ radius explodey hatedeath will kill them pretty quickly. It also satisfies the nitpickyness I have about the tube count on the MD's drum not usually matching how many rounds it holds. I suppose I may just have to suck it up and try the CR again... the ACR's pricing would be unattractive to me, and quite frankly I don't like it very much anyways. Maybe I should start a thread about how the CR needs more bass in the firing sound... and the ScR needs a bit more zap like the pistol has. That said, what do you think of trying to use the old-school AR on the AmLogi? My main dig against it was mostly the AR 514 of Chrome when an assault could and often would outgun an HMG heavy at point blank range, so maybe it would work well for me... I guess I'll just have to suck it up and try then. Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: NOOO leave my ******* lr alone this thread is completely irrelevant lr is bloody well fine get good Come on, you can at least admit that more range would be absolutely useful (and desirable) on the LR. Considering it's use as a more support-oriented weapon, it should absolutely have a better range profile than "optimal=10 meters more than a RR". I should be able to make a RR user seriously consider whether they want to risk going out in the open to close the gap with me. Right now it's not really possible to do that. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4264	Posted - 2014.10.25 17:47:00 - [43] - Quote Yeah, I'd like it to have about 5 maybe 10 more optimal myself, (you are correct Morte my aim is definitely bad, I need help, lol) As for the AR, I thought about it for about 30 sec last night while I was redoing some fits, then decided to just leave the ACRs and Templar ScR (I'm addicted to BPOs) for now and wait to see how things work after the next hotfix and 1.9 before really changing things up. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 56	Posted - 2014.10.25 17:52:00 - [44] - Quote Oh yeah, I know all about BPO addiction; I've got the full Dren and Templar sets on another character, plus the Covenant set on that same toon, a Guristas saga on a third, and on this one the Sever Sent A-I and Assault C-I (even though I have no CalSalt investment at all), and the Quafe Assault A-I. The Quafe scouts do tempt me even now... but quite honestly I'd rather have a Quafe logi. That being said, I think I'll just end up trying the CR, AR, and BAR on my current AmLogi setups, see if I get a feel for what I like better. Now if only the CR had more bass... that would probably make it a little bit easier to decide. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4264	Posted - 2014.10.25 17:54:00 - [45] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Oh yeah, I know all about BPO addiction; I've got the full Dren and Templar sets on another character, plus the Covenant set on that same toon, a Guristas saga on a third, and on this one the Sever Sent A-I and Assault C-I (even though I have no CalSalt investment at all), and the Quafe Assault A-I. The Quafe scouts do tempt me even now... but quite honestly I'd rather have a Quafe logi. That being said, I think I'll just end up trying the CR, AR, and BAR on my current AmLogi setups, see if I get a feel for what I like better. Now if only the CR had more bass... that would probably make it a little bit easier to decide. Lol. I bought a quafe scout A-1 last night because there isn't a templar version and I simply must have a BPO of all the Amarr suits. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 275	Posted - 2014.10.26 00:09:00 - [46] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah, I'd like it to have about 5 maybe 10 more optimal myself, (you are correct Morte my aim is definitely bad, I need help, lol) As for the AR, I actually thought about it for about 30 sec last night while I was redoing some fits, then decided to just leave the ACRs and Templar ScR (I'm addicted to BPOs) for now and wait to see how things work after the next hotfix and 1.9 before really changing things up. Personally I'd really like the AScR to become very good again, then maybe convice Rattati to make a STD variant as part of the LP store changes and buff the Amarr Logi PG so I can be as racially pure as possible considering FW is almost all I do nowadays. Wasn't saying your aim is bad ..lr us just one of the least aim forgiving gun in dust it has 0 kick 100% precision ..so if it's even a lille off its off you know no spray n pray no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4267	Posted - 2014.10.26 11:02:00 - [47] - Quote Haha, no worries Morte, my aim isn't that great, I've come to accept it. That said, I've been playing dust a fair bit the past week, and it seems like maybe I'm doing it wrong now. I always thought you were crazy saying you don't "preheat" much and use it inside of 60m, but I tried it that way a little, and while I didn't exactly go 40/1, it worked much better than I thought it would. I guess you can be a little more aggressive with it now than in the past. Who knew? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2014.10.26 14:54:00 - [48] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Haha, no worries Morte, my aim isn't that great, I've come to accept it. That said, I've been playing dust a fair bit the past week, and it seems like maybe I'm doing it wrong now. I always thought you were crazy saying you don't "preheat" much and use it inside of 60m, but I tried it that way a little, and while I didn't exactly go 40/1, it worked much better than I thought it would. I guess you can be a little more aggressive with it now than in the past. Who knew? Idiiiid and yes those first rounds can be deadly as **** I don't precooked for a second or two max If I see a heavy Closer than 25 I try and avoid if I a heavy 40 m away walking towards me at 20 I pull smg a clean him up as hell be critical after walking sp long in my beam most heavies die within 10 m of where they made contact with your beam no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound 2424	Posted - 2014.10.26 16:35:00 - [49] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Vell0cet wrote: ADS sensitivity is out of balance with other weapons in ADS. My best guess is when they increased the LR zoom a bit in 1.8 they didn't adjust the ADS sensitivity by the proportional amount. That's my biggest gripe. It could do with a small range buff, maybe extending the falloff by 10-15m or so, or bumping the optimal out by 5-10m. There are a TON of drawbacks to the LR, mainly because it's a fairly complicated weapon that is very situational. You're basically required to run a brick tanked Amarr assault suit with stacked damage mods and nano hives. It is the king of assists, which means you'll be getting much lower payouts. You are a highly visible target, who can't stray too far from your nano hive, and you're very slow. This makes you a perfect target for snipers, cloaked scouts, forge snipers and HMG heavies in LAVs. Your best bet is to get on a high point that requires a dropship and is the right distance from where the action is. If it's too close, you'll be destroyed by RRs, too far and you'll have to leave the safety of your perch which will pretty-much guarantee a shotgun to the back. You can't really dictate range, and instead have to react to the tactical situation on the ground. However, if you have good squad support and a squadmate with a scout hunter fit with high passive scan precision nearby, and you can get in that 100m sweetspot, you can really cause some serious pain. I'd really like to see that ADS sensitivity fixed though, that would make a huge difference. It does not require brick tanked suits all My amar assaults have 636 armor max or you could get used to the sensitivity difference like the rest of the laser rifle users Me and Victor seem to do just fine with it As for heat up I've squeezed 2 proto suits into 1 beam ..I've killed 5 to 9 mediocre suits before reloading anyone who does poorly with lr has either a bad fit or bad aim the Gun is perfect What are you putting in your lows? I shouldn't have to get used to the sensitivity difference, it should feel like other weapons when ADSing. Weapons shouldn't be radically better/worse when using a mouse. Best PvE idea ever!
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 286	Posted - 2014.10.26 20:32:00 - [50] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Vell0cet wrote: ADS sensitivity is out of balance with other weapons in ADS. My best guess is when they increased the LR zoom a bit in 1.8 they didn't adjust the ADS sensitivity by the proportional amount. That's my biggest gripe. It could do with a small range buff, maybe extending the falloff by 10-15m or so, or bumping the optimal out by 5-10m. There are a TON of drawbacks to the LR, mainly because it's a fairly complicated weapon that is very situational. You're basically required to run a brick tanked Amarr assault suit with stacked damage mods and nano hives. It is the king of assists, which means you'll be getting much lower payouts. You are a highly visible target, who can't stray too far from your nano hive, and you're very slow. This makes you a perfect target for snipers, cloaked scouts, forge snipers and HMG heavies in LAVs. Your best bet is to get on a high point that requires a dropship and is the right distance from where the action is. If it's too close, you'll be destroyed by RRs, too far and you'll have to leave the safety of your perch which will pretty-much guarantee a shotgun to the back. You can't really dictate range, and instead have to react to the tactical situation on the ground. However, if you have good squad support and a squadmate with a scout hunter fit with high passive scan precision nearby, and you can get in that 100m sweetspot, you can really cause some serious pain. I'd really like to see that ADS sensitivity fixed though, that would make a huge difference. It does not require brick tanked suits all My amar assaults have 636 armor max or you could get used to the sensitivity difference like the rest of the laser rifle users Me and Victor seem to do just fine with it As for heat up I've squeezed 2 proto suits into 1 beam ..I've killed 5 to 9 mediocre suits before reloading anyone who does poorly with lr has either a bad fit or bad aim the Gun is perfect What are you putting in your lows? I shouldn't have to get used to the sensitivity difference, it should feel like other weapons when ADSing. Weapons shouldn't be radically better/worse when using a mouse. I run three standard ehp types 1 complex kinkat 2 complex reps 2 enhanced plates or 3 complex reps 2 enhanced plates or 2 complex reps 3 plates the suit in most of the stomping pics I posted here is amar adv assault 2 complex reps 2 enhanced plates no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil

Atiim 13179	Posted - 2014.10.27 11:50:00 - [51] - Quote I wish they'd reduce the speed while in ADS back to where it was before they changed it in 1.5. If I wanted it to move quickly I'd set my sensitivity to 100/100. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND


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