DUST Search - Sidearms Only Scout

Blueprint For Murder wrote:

When ever I bring this up It just gets instantly buried and with so many scout threads already I wanted to fit in.

I understand the tryhards need to be op to get kills, but what I don't understand is why the classic scouts don't speak up about the scouts ability without cloak or with side arms only I mean I can't be the only one that thinks this is just as viable and would not require any change to the cloak. Issues of assault cloak would be taken away without reducing our CQC killing power, and with the cloak we can just avoid long range combat (unless using bolt or mag sec).

This change would effect so many aspects of the game positively:
Commandos and assaults become more viable
The SG gains a role that isn't a cheap trick holding doorways and with commando assaulting.
Scanners become more viable because lone scouts will be less likely to massacre a team
The cloak would remain flowing, but be balanced because of the dps/range/clip deficiencies of side arms

I play a no cloak side arm only scout so the upcoming changes don't effect me because I nerfed myself lol. When I have used cloak the sneakier nature of it is pretty fun and it flows really well once you have an adv or higher cloak even when using sidearms only. I would hate to see that play style ruined it is kind of like the story of Judgment of Solomon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI The tryhards vs the real scouts.

Please stay on topic I don't care about your ideas I have read them in the other 12 recent threads about scouts not that your ideas are not valid, but because I just don't think this gets any real consideration because the tryhards are quick to bury or derail any attempt to have a real discussion about side arms only scouts.

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Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 156	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:36:00 - [1] - Quote When ever I bring this up It just gets instantly buried and with so many scout threads already I wanted to fit in. I understand the tryhards need to be op to get kills, but what I don't understand is why the classic scouts don't speak up about the scouts ability without cloak or with side arms only I mean I can't be the only one that thinks this is just as viable and would not require any change to the cloak. Issues of assault cloak would be taken away without reducing our CQC killing power, and with the cloak we can just avoid long range combat (unless using bolt or mag sec). This change would effect so many aspects of the game positively: Commandos and assaults become more viable The SG gains a role that isn't a cheap trick holding doorways and with commando assaulting. Scanners become more viable because lone scouts will be less likely to massacre a team The cloak would remain flowing, but be balanced because of the dps/range/clip deficiencies of side arms I play a no cloak side arm only scout so the upcoming changes don't effect me because I nerfed myself lol. When I have used cloak the sneakier nature of it is pretty fun and it flows really well once you have an adv or higher cloak even when using sidearms only. I would hate to see that play style ruined it is kind of like the story of Judgment of Solomon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI The tryhards vs the real scouts. Please stay on topic I don't care about your ideas I have read them in the other 12 recent threads about scouts not that your ideas are not valid, but because I just don't think this gets any real consideration because the tryhards are quick to bury or derail any attempt to have a real discussion about side arms only scouts. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Im a wizard
Atiim 13141	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:55:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 55	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:01:00 - [3] - Quote I use a scout suit for my sniper rifle because it's got the lowest profile and fits my needs. I've skilled into scout suits purely for that reason, so personally I hate this idea (unless sniper rifles are re-classified to be sidearms!)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1795	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:06:00 - [4] - Quote Removing the light weapon from scouts would go a long way towards balance, I think. There are other ways, too, but this is one worthy of consideration, IMO. FWIW, I love running dual sidearm scouts, loads of fun and still very effective.
CharacterNameWasTaken G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 133	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:08:00 - [5] - Quote i use scout 24/7 and i even suggested this but all of these rryhard light weapon scrubs got mad and instantly denied it. So now when i see a scout with light weapons they aee instantly labeld a scrub in my book. Real scouts dont need light weapons to get kills real scouts run dual sidearms.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1797	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:10:00 - [6] - Quote lol There are many scouts you see running around with shotguns and light weapons that you would label "scrub" that would waste you with dual sidarms. To label all of them "scrubs" and anoint yourself a "real scout" is ridiculous.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4242	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:10:00 - [7] - Quote Maybe if you made the shotgun a sidearm (Note: I am not a scout). Even still, I think this is a bad idea for any suit class (has been suggested many times for logis, sadly) as newer players who can't use dual prof 5 Ishukone SMGs (or whatever) would just get crushed. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 55	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:37:00 - [8] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Maybe if you made the shotgun a sidearm (Note: I am not a scout). Even still, I think this is a bad idea for any suit class (has been suggested many times for logis, sadly) as newer players who can't use dual prof 5 Ishukone SMGs or whatever would just get crushed. Shotguns need to be made more realistic. They're OP cause they can OHK and have such high RoF that even if it takes two, nobody can react if they're snuck up on by a cloaker. Shotguns in real life maim rather than kill most often. Logis with sidearms only would be more logical.
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 625	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:39:00 - [9] - Quote No. The slow blade penetrates the shield.
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 563	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:40:00 - [10] - Quote Limiting Scouts to sidearm only defeats the purpose of fit anything to anything that CCP loves so much I don't have a problem with scouts fitting anything, just like I don't have a problem with heavies using RR and sniper. If someone chooses to make that their playstyle, who are you to say their wrong. Hell, I someone could figure out a way to carry a forge on a scout, I'd be damn impressed. If they could kill with it without being knocked on their A$$, I'd applaud them. I am against limiting any fits based on suit.

RayRay James Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 563	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:43:00 - [11] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Logis with sidearms only would be more logical. No. Logis are already limited enough, we still need to defend ourselves.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 157	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:43:00 - [12] - Quote There are no other changes proposed in this thread other than the side arms only please stay on topic. Thank you for the link atiim as you guys can see it is very easy to be side tracked. As for sniping it would be a bummer to lose some sp, but a low db can be obtained by any assault and most heavy suits. You could always play a lil scout 8D RayRay James wrote: Limiting Scouts to sidearm only defeats the purpose of fit anything to anything that CCP loves so much I don't have a problem with scouts fitting anything, just like I don't have a problem with heavies using RR and sniper. If someone chooses to make that their playstyle, who are you to say their wrong. Hell, I someone could figure out a way to carry a forge on a scout, I'd be damn impressed. If they could kill with it without being knocked on their A$$, I'd applaud them. I am against limiting any fits based on suit. The scouts have a monopoly on the cloak I am pretty sure that makes this argument invalid despite a dev bringing it up. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Im a wizard
Dreis Shadowweaver Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 440	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:46:00 - [13] - Quote I think that limiting Scouts to two Sidearm slots is the best way to balance them rather than breaking them. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2097	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:48:00 - [14] - Quote I do not like the idea of restricting scouts to sidearms and here is why.... No more shotgun, no form of AV - no swarms or plasma cannons. (except remotes which are very situational) It is an arbitrary limit which would kill the role. A scout should not be excelling at the assault role however it still needs to be flexible. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4033	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:51:00 - [15] - Quote Pick one of the following... Scouts may fit two sidearms Reduce strafe speed and/or strafe acceleration for light dropsuits to that of their medium cousins. Further reduce scout potential HP; how this is done is up to the scouting community. Base eHP reduction, less PG/PG for tanking modules, whatever. My advice to you, playa...
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 55	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:00:00 - [16] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Logis with sidearms only would be more logical. No. Logis are already limited enough, we still need to defend ourselves. So do Scouts...
jade gamester Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 7	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:01:00 - [17] - Quote Scouts should either lose there rights to light weapons (heavies aswell) with a damage bonus to sidearms or be given they're own weapon class with the exception of shotguns which should be a scouts weapon
Atiim 13143	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:10:00 - [18] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Logis with sidearms only would be more logical. Logical from which standpoint? Realistic - No competent military would intentionally limit the combat capabilities of their unit, as it's within their best interest that all units survive. Medics have access to the same weapons as any other soldier would, barring highly specialized ones (ie, you most likely won't see a medic holding an AV weapon). Gameplay - Lets look at their weaknesses (compared to Assaults) Low HP Low Speed Low Stamina No Sidearm Slot* Smaller Engagement Window Looking at this list, they're already gimped in several areas when it comes to combat and confrontations. They don't need any more weaknesses than what they currently have, as the current ones are sufficient in limiting their combat efficiency. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Atiim 13143	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:12:00 - [19] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: RayRay James wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Logis with sidearms only would be more logical. No. Logis are already limited enough, we still need to defend ourselves. So do Scouts... Scouts don't need a focus around defense, as they're eWAR and stealth abilities prevent them from being in a situation where they would need to have a prolonged firefight. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9849	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:15:00 - [20] - Quote Well, it's not going to affect me anyways since I hardly ever use a light weapon. But then again I do use the swarm launchers which often requires me to be fast and stealthy in order to sneak up on a tank or LAV that somehow has a scanning module fitted on it. It's incredible how difficult it is to keep up with a tank even on a fast scout when you know that tank is going to run away at the first sign of a swarm. If I lose my light weapon slot on my scout, I will have no use for the light weapon skill books until I train up assaults or commandos and I don't have any plans to train into those for a very long time. Then there are the snipers to consider. There are sniper players -- no I'm not talking about the risk-averse redliner type -- who are always on the move either to counter another sniper or to avoid detection while close to enemy lines. What about them? Those kind of "productive snipers" who are a rare breed are likely to be scouts as well. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9850	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:19:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: RayRay James wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Logis with sidearms only would be more logical. No. Logis are already limited enough, we still need to defend ourselves. So do Scouts... Scouts don't need a focus around defense, as they're eWAR and stealth abilities prevent them from being in a situation where they would need to have a prolonged firefight. The Blackbird in Eve Online also a strictly EWAR ship that depends heavily on preventing the enemy from targeting them in order to survive yet they have slots available for both medium turrets and missile launchers in case they have to actually shoot back as there are ships capable of countering the EWAR advantage of the Blackbird. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1808	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:21:00 - [22] - Quote This isn't Eve.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 159	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:21:00 - [23] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: When ever I bring this up It just gets instantly buried and with so many scout threads already I wanted to fit in. I understand the tryhards need to be op to get kills, but what I don't understand is why the classic scouts don't speak up about the scouts ability without cloak or with side arms only I mean I can't be the only one that thinks this is just as viable and would not require any change to the cloak. Issues of assault cloak would be taken away without reducing our CQC killing power, and with the cloak we can just avoid long range combat (unless using bolt or mag sec). This change would effect so many aspects of the game positively: Commandos and assaults become more viable The SG gains a role that isn't a cheap trick holding doorways and with commando assaulting. Scanners become more viable because lone scouts will be less likely to massacre a team The cloak would remain flowing, but be balanced because of the dps/range/clip deficiencies of side arms I play a no cloak side arm only scout so the upcoming changes don't effect me because I nerfed myself lol. When I have used cloak the sneakier nature of it is pretty fun and it flows really well once you have an adv or higher cloak even when using sidearms only. I would hate to see that play style ruined it is kind of like the story of Judgment of Solomon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI The tryhards vs the real scouts. Please stay on topic I don't care about your ideas I have read them in the other 12 recent threads about scouts not that your ideas are not valid, but because I just don't think this gets any real consideration because the tryhards are quick to bury or derail any attempt to have a real discussion about side arms only scouts. Minscout here and I 110% agree with this. Each suit sacrifices for its abilities and scouts do not. Heavy only gets a few slots due to the heavy weapon Commando has even less slots for the duel light weapons and equipment slot Assault is the standard to start from for balance Logi losses speed, side arm, and health for its extra equipment slots But the scout Gaines drastic EWAR, speed and regen abilities with the extra equipment slot for a minor health lose that is easily made for by the speed and smaller hit box. IT SHOULD SACRIFICE SOMETHING FOR ITS ABILITIES (EWAR, regen, speed and extra equipment slot) The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 627	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:22:00 - [24] - Quote I'd rather see scouts lose their sidearm slots than their light slots. As much as I hate shotguns, they are a decidedly scout weapon. Force the shotgunners to get close. No more versatile invisible shotguns. Swag-suit4lyfe!
G Felix Second-Nature 47	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:26:00 - [25] - Quote I think vastly superior Ewar and too much tank is what really makes scouts such a Swiss army knife. Assault fits would be much more viable at their purported role with better passive scans. Also, what about class scaled speed penalties on armor plates? A given armor plate module might be a 3% speed penalty on a sentinel suit, 6% on an assault, and 9% on a scout. These are arbitrary numbers given only as an example. Seems like it would fit lore from a functionality standpoint as well, the sentinel moves slower to begin with and is able to shoulder the added weight with a proportionally lower penalty. The scout, meanwhile, pays a higher cost because the suit is more adversely affected by weight. Anything is better than making shotguns a sidearm. Dust can be frustrating. (Gò»°Gûí°)Gò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9850	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:29:00 - [26] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: This isn't Eve. I know. I just brought it up to prove a point. Honestly, scouts need some defense. It may not necessarily have to be a light weapon in particular but some means of shooting back is needed if scouts are to ever run into a situation where their EWAR may not work. Also, I would be extra careful of about buffing sidearms as compensation for the loss of the light weapon slot. Remember the Bolt Pistol and how powerful it is? As it stands, that thing is almost as effective as an AR. Now imagine seeing scouts with a buff to a weapon like that. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 159	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:31:00 - [27] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Pick one of the following... Scouts may fit two sidearms Reduce strafe speed and/or strafe acceleration for light dropsuits to that of their medium cousins. Further reduce scout potential HP; how this is done is up to the scouting community. Base eHP reduction, less PG/PG for tanking modules, whatever. I suggested before to do to scouts what they did to heavies Penalize the use of certain things such as light weapons and heavy armor plates ( the 85,110 & 135 modules) and to be fair something similar for shield tankers. This still allows freedom of choice while limiting the assault capabilities such as a 700-800 hp scout with a light weapon. The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Aria Gomes Wirykomi Wolf Pack 623	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:32:00 - [28] - Quote As cool as it would be...it would **** off shotgun scouts and scouts that use rifles on Manus Peak. If this was gonna be a thing, then they would have to make a separate scout suit for the sidearm only scouts. Same slot layout but two sidearms instead.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9850	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:34:00 - [29] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I'd rather see scouts lose their sidearm slots than their light slots. As much as I hate shotguns, they are a decidedly scout weapon. Force the shotgunners to get close. No more versatile invisible shotguns. Congratulations, you just obliterated the role of the Minmatar Scout as a dedicated ninja knifer which is exactly the kind of role I dedicated myself towards for 2 years and counting. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 158	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:34:00 - [30] - Quote Stay on topic please the only proposed change is making scouts side arm only. Shotguns are right now a scout thing because people don't play commandos because scouts are so op its a vicious cycle lol. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Im a wizard



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