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Krightun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:21:00 - [1] - Quote How do you find the aiming / aim-movement? EDIT: What is your opinion of the mouse aim movement? I stopped being involved with DUST once I heard the news/update although I've been craving DUST a little. I hooked my PS3 up again, jumped on game. I notice the aiming still feels weird to me. Coming from playing PC shooters for some time, the aiming on DUST just doesn't feel the same (with mouse) Can there be improvements made? with mouse smoothing off, when I make fine adjustments in 'aim'(just moving the mouse a little bit) it seems to float, so Put smoothing on, quite a bit better, I Think smoothing also lowers the sensitivity so I just turned it up. Still though It doesn't feel as great as the other Shooters. (I'm not trying to make this into other games) Just the way I see it the aim should just work, and skill is based on the player or user of the keyboard/mouse. - I Would likely be playing more if the aim was better, I Tend to get angry about the aiming. It just doesn't feel the same.
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:38:00 - [2] - Quote Krightun wrote: How do you find the aiming / aim-movement? EDIT: What is your opinion of the mouse aim movement? I stopped being involved with DUST once I heard the news/update although I've been craving DUST a little. I hooked my PS3 up again, jumped on game. I notice the aiming still feels weird to me. Coming from playing PC shooters for some time, the aiming on DUST just doesn't feel the same (with mouse) Can there be improvements made? with mouse smoothing off, when I make fine adjustments in 'aim'(just moving the mouse a little bit) it seems to float, so Put smoothing on, quite a bit better, I Think smoothing also lowers the sensitivity so I just turned it up. Still though It doesn't feel as great as the other Shooters. (I'm not trying to make this into other games) Just the way I see it the aim should just work, and skill is based on the player or user of the keyboard/mouse. - I Would likely be playing more if the aim was better, I Tend to get angry about the aiming. It just doesn't feel the same. I have played a lot of the Battlefield series and Call of Duty series on the PC. I understand what you're getting at here. The thing is, whether you you're using a keyboard and mouse or a controller, that aim just feels sluggish. I have turned the sensitivity up all the way for both peripherals. I am simply saying that the sensitivity needs to be adjusted in general. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Krightun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:42:00 - [3] - Quote thanks for the reply Lost Apollo yeah, I wasn't sure what's exactly wrong with it. just something..
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 348	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:42:00 - [4] - Quote well i use m/kb for every thing but tanks and drop ships witch i dont use much, how ever i cant aim regardless of what im using its why i use nova knives, i be ninja with them :D but i enjoy using m/kb just what ever you do dont go from a 60 fps game to dust XD Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:45:00 - [5] - Quote There's no doubt about this 60 fps then dust. I love this game. It is a truly amazing piece of work. The sensitivity does need to be worked on. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Krightun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:45:00 - [6] - Quote thanks for your reply X7 lion yeah, I'm not experienced with vehicles, nor do I have a lot of interest in them(yet) My main role is to be on the ground front line. Not knives though. lol, I'm not really a ninja.
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:49:00 - [7] - Quote You know what I thought would be absolutely hilarious? Sentinels and commandos fighting with Nova knives!!!! I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1279	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:50:00 - [8] - Quote Krightun wrote: How do you find the aiming / aim-movement? EDIT: What is your opinion of the mouse aim movement? I stopped being involved with DUST once I heard the news/update although I've been craving DUST a little. I hooked my PS3 up again, jumped on game. I notice the aiming still feels weird to me. Coming from playing PC shooters for some time, the aiming on DUST just doesn't feel the same (with mouse) Can there be improvements made? with mouse smoothing off, when I make fine adjustments in 'aim'(just moving the mouse a little bit) it seems to float, so Put smoothing on, quite a bit better, I Think smoothing also lowers the sensitivity so I just turned it up. Still though It doesn't feel as great as the other Shooters. (I'm not trying to make this into other games) Just the way I see it the aim should just work, and skill is based on the player or user of the keyboard/mouse. - I Would likely be playing more if the aim was better, I Tend to get angry about the aiming. It just doesn't feel the same. there was a time it was dominant but ccp then artificially slowed down the movement on mouse to be more on par with joypad [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:15:00 - [9] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: there was a time it was dominant but ccp then artificially slowed down the movement on mouse to be more on par with joypad I've said it before- to you in fact- but KB/M has never been the dominant aim method in the entire history of DUST. Even back in Chromosome, when KB/M was at its absolute peak, the top players (like Regnym and 13ear) used a DS3, and not KB/M. What actually happened was KB/M was gimped to no purpose because a bunch of illiterate 12-year-olds whined that they were being 'beaten' by a KB/M user when they were very simple outplayed. @OP: I find the KB/M to be... subpar, in DUST, even when compared to fairly rudimentary PC shooters. It's impossible to fly a derpship with KB/M, and an atrocious experience to try and tank using it. Infantry gameplay is pretty reasonable... unless of course you consider the constant "shotgun/CR/RE/knives" to the back from cloaky scouts that are freaking everywhere these days. I have been able to take advantage of the better turn sensitivity of the KB/M to try and fight back against people who are behind me, but it's very finicky. Part of this seems to be that there's a few reports and accounts that AA actually combines with the hitreg functions and makes KB/M less than reliable on that front. I haven't personally had a whole lot of issue with that though. On the whole though, I still prefer the KB/M to the DS3... unless I'm trying to fly derpships. Then the DS3 is blatantly superior. What can I say, the first proper shooter I ever played was Battlefield Vietnam on PC. I'm not kidding when I say that the constant "shotgun surprise from unscannable scout" made me quit trying to go for the officer Magsec. It became, quite frankly, too painful, unfun, and rage-inducing. **Except for the odd occasion when I'm firing and my gun is producing all relevant effects... except there's no damage and the clip doesn't empty. Literally, this almost got me killed today, because some punk was able to deal damage to me, while my RR was producing all the fancy lights and sounds, but no damage, and no ammo expenditure. Of course, that might not be KB/M related... but I've never experienced it on the odd blue moon that I try (and generally fail) at using a DS3 for infantry.
Krightun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:16:00 - [10] - Quote well Look what I Found... I did not know this about polling rate and the PS3/DUST 514 "PS3 not support polling rate above 125. If u set any other value - u got problems." " If you want a optimal experience with M&Kb, make sure your mouse has or is set to a polling rate of 100-125Hz. Anything higher will over report & reduce your effective DPI. " MAYBE THIS IS WHY I HAVE SUCH PROBLEMS? now I want to try it at a lower polling rate.. if this is an official thing, everyone should of known. I've had my Mouse/Dust profile set to 1000 polling rate all along. there's.. 125 / 200 / 250 / 333 / 500 / 1000 Logitech G9X I'll be back later... now I'm hopeful.

matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 65	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:57:00 - [11] - Quote i gave up it was soo bad :(
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 508	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:23:00 - [12] - Quote Frag FX Shark or Piranha. Best of both worlds. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 74	Posted - 2014.10.20 04:58:00 - [13] - Quote My experience: My DS3 died on me a while back so I was using a mouse and keyboard for a couple of weeks. Some of these are cons, some are pros. #1: some weapons are dramatically better. This includes (in order of damn this just got way better-ness) FORGE GUN, SNIPER RIFLE, Plasma Cannon, Flaylock, shotgun. #2: Vehicle driving is horrible with mouse/kb (this may be because I wasnt used to it for vehicles, particularly the dropships were a nightmare for me with M/KB because I was totally not used to driving them with that control scheme) #3: You can turn around and aim accurately much faster, situational awareness becomes much easier because you can turn quicker, and you can run diagonally. #4: Shooting at high or low angles becomes a little less annoying. The DS3 really bugs the crap out of me at low/high angles. #5: I find shooting things up close in hipfire to be much easier with M/KB. #6: At long ranges while ADSing I find hitting things to be much easier. #7: In contrast to 5 and 6, there is an odd deadzone in between where it is incredibly hard to hit anything without ADS. This weird deadzone runs from around 30-50 meters, which with DS3 I would usually not ADS unless the guy wasnt looking at me at all. For some reason nothing past the first few bullets hits. After a couple of weeks I went back to DS3, once I got the new one in the mail. I might have stayed with M/KB, but the issue in #7 was really bugging me, and I had to play using a board near my TV, so f that.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2034	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:05:00 - [14] - Quote The mouse outright sucks but for those of us who came from PC gaming, its the only option. Apart from the lack of sensitivity, the sluggishness and overall feel, its difficult to select spawn locations using KB/M at times, we do not get the benefit of aim assist like control players do. We also pretty much cannot fly dropships with the KB/M. I much preferred the aiming in chromosome and back then controllers didn't have the advantage of aim assist. It was down to who was a good aim. Even still, controllers were dominant. Still though, there are those that will still argue here on the forums that the KB/M grants some sort of 'unfair advantage', the only advantage KB/M gives is turning speed while on foot. For this minor upside we suffer a lot of negatives and downsides. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 364	Posted - 2014.10.20 05:47:00 - [15] - Quote I found that mouse smoothing only made it move slower as if sensitivity were turned down to 5. I turned off smoothing and turned up sensitivity to max. Huge improvement. Turn speed was crazy fast. AKA - StarVenger
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 697	Posted - 2014.10.20 09:53:00 - [16] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: You know what I thought would be absolutely hilarious? Sentinels and commandos fighting with Nova knives!!!! Did that a while ago You wouldn't shoot a kid with glasses, would you? .l.. PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Orber Gen Academy Inferno E-R-A 216	Posted - 2014.10.20 10:12:00 - [17] - Quote I'm playing mouse and keyboard since open beta. And always feel that game sensetivity is not enough. I must adjust my DPI over mouse settings and it's causing positioning bugs, because dust is sucks (when it comes to mouse). So AIMing from the mouse is trash, constantly hit-detection bugs, no aim assist and result - most of the time THE GAME KILLS ME, not a player, but the game. Soooo yea, there is something CCP must to do, at least give us more sensetivity.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2914	Posted - 2014.10.20 10:24:00 - [18] - Quote Krightun wrote: "PS3 not support polling rate above 125. If u set any other value - u got problems." Nope. It has nothing to do with this. Also, 100Hz is the max polling rate for PS3. The problem is that Unreal Engine 3 does not have raw mouse input, it works as a cursor in Windows pretty much, if you get a framerate drop, your reticle movement will start to stutter and move inconsistently. Improving framerate is the only fix to this. Try playing in 576p resolution and you will see what I mean. "The DUST 514 Dev Team is not reduced or affected by the restructuring at CCP."
DTOracle BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 349	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:30:00 - [19] - Quote Krightun wrote: well Look what I Found... I did not know this about polling rate and the PS3/DUST 514 "PS3 not support polling rate above 125. If u set any other value - u got problems." " If you want a optimal experience with M&Kb, make sure your mouse has or is set to a polling rate of 100-125Hz. Anything higher will over report & reduce your effective DPI. " MAYBE THIS IS WHY I HAVE SUCH PROBLEMS? now I want to try it at a lower polling rate.. if this is an official thing, everyone should of known. I've had my Mouse/Dust profile set to 1000 polling rate all along. there's.. 125 / 200 / 250 / 333 / 500 / 1000 Logitech G9X I'll be back later... now I'm hopeful. This is a fact, I was just about to post this. But Kb/M is still inferior to DS3 on any aim assisted weapon. So don't expect any miracles.
DTOracle BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 349	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:34:00 - [20] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Krightun wrote: "PS3 not support polling rate above 125. If u set any other value - u got problems." Nope. It has nothing to do with this. Also, 100Hz is the max polling rate for PS3. The problem is that Unreal Engine 3 does not have raw mouse input, it works as a cursor in Windows pretty much, if you get a framerate drop, your reticle movement will start to stutter and move inconsistently (input lag). Improving framerate is the only fix to this. Try playing in 576p resolution and you will see what I mean. TL;DR Mouse implementation in Dust 514 has a framerate dependant input lag. The only way to fix it YOURSELF is to use a KB/M>DS3 emulator such as GIMX/EagleEye/Chronus device. The only way CCP can fix it is to improve over-all game performance. ??? Unreal doesn't support raw mouse input??? lol, you have a screw loose, & the polling rate of your mouse absolutely makes a difference. If your mouse is reporting 1000 times a second, but the PS3 only receives 1 out of 10 reports. Then your effective DPI is only 1/10 of what you think it is.

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 12:50:00 - [21] - Quote You guys have dpi setting and turbo I would say that it works fine the small issues you encounter are more than worth the borderline exploitation of Ps3 players you achive. I am a pc gamer mostly and can't believe that k&m was even allowed on a console shooter. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3755	Posted - 2014.10.20 13:54:00 - [22] - Quote I'm going to say this bluntly. DS3 sensitivity in DUST is set too low. Kb/m support in dust is a complete sh*tshow.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2914	Posted - 2014.10.20 14:03:00 - [23] - Quote DTOracle wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Krightun wrote: "PS3 not support polling rate above 125. If u set any other value - u got problems." Nope. It has nothing to do with this. Also, 100Hz is the max polling rate for PS3. The problem is that Unreal Engine 3 does not have raw mouse input, it works as a cursor in Windows pretty much, if you get a framerate drop, your reticle movement will start to stutter and move inconsistently (input lag). Improving framerate is the only fix to this. Try playing in 576p resolution and you will see what I mean. TL;DR Mouse implementation in Dust 514 has a framerate dependant input lag. The only way to fix it YOURSELF is to use a KB/M>DS3 emulator such as GIMX/EagleEye/Chronus device. The only way CCP can fix it is to improve over-all game performance. ??? Unreal doesn't support raw mouse input??? lol, you have a screw loose, & the polling rate of your mouse absolutely makes a difference. If your mouse is reporting 1000 times a second, but the PS3 only receives 1 out of 10 reports. Then your effective DPI is only 1/10 of what you think it is. The Unreal Engine 3 does not support raw mouse input. Not on the PS3, not on PC. The mouse is implemented in software. Quote: problem is that in UDK the mouse is done through the UI (scaleform) and not using a hardware cursor like most games. this makes it FPS-dependant so if the game runs slow the mouse runs slow too. this has been asked for but hasn't gotten an answer. SOURCE: https://forums.epicgames.com/threads/863049-Menu-and-mouse-lag-in-UDK-games "The DUST 514 Dev Team is not reduced or affected by the restructuring at CCP."
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1763	Posted - 2014.10.20 15:29:00 - [24] - Quote I gave up trying to get MKB to work well and got a Aimon PS Elite.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12738	Posted - 2014.10.20 15:36:00 - [25] - Quote Coming from a past CS 1.6 and a regular CSGO player, the mouse controls are absolutely atrocious. Not only is the input delay astronomical, but there is some severe issues with consistency. Think mouse acceleration, only completely random. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4619	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:00:00 - [26] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: there was a time it was dominant but ccp then artificially slowed down the movement on mouse to be more on par with joypad I've said it before- to you in fact- but KB/M has never been the dominant aim method in the entire history of DUST. Even back in Chromosome, when KB/M was at its absolute peak, the top players (like Regnym and 13ear) used a DS3, and not KB/M. What actually happened was KB/M was gimped to no purpose because a bunch of illiterate 12-year-olds whined that they were being 'beaten' by a KB/M user when they were very simple outplayed. I find that hard to believe. 12-year-olds are better on the DS3 than most of the player base. I think the issue is the large amount of PC players who came to DUST and were crappy with the DS3 controller while having decades of practice with the mouse. Their experience was that they did far better with a mouse than with the controller, so based on their own experiance they thought the mouse was OP. However, because their PS3 was generally in their living room where there was no convenient flat surface to place a mouse pad, and because adding a flat surface for the mouse in an ergonomic position would have clashed with their designer furniture, they cried for nerfs to the Mouse so they would not be at a disadvantage when playing against former PC players who had set their PS3 up on their computer desks. It is truly a clash between the Living Room Players and the Computer Desk Players. The 12-year-olds really donGÇÖt have a say in the matter. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Haerr Clone Manque 1671	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:06:00 - [27] - Quote Input delay Negative acceleration Frame rate dependant input (no raw) GÇö which leads to variable response from the same input depending on where on the map you are and which direction you are aiming Unavoidable pixel skipping Limited to using 100Hz polling rate No access to settings in any comprehensible way (arbitrary sensitivity scales) Mouse support is in a inexcusably poor state. Even if they get around to fixing one of these issues it is still going to be in a very poor state. If you want to play Dust with your mouse try to avoid playing computer FPSs because going from perfectly decent mouse settings to Dust is a frustrating tedious thing every single time, and detracts heavily from any enjoyment you can have in Dust. Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: Fix mouse support.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4619	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:16:00 - [28] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: The mouse outright sucks but for those of us who came from PC gaming, its the only option. Apart from the lack of sensitivity, the sluggishness and overall feel, its difficult to select spawn locations using KB/M at times, we do not get the benefit of aim assist like control players do. We also pretty much cannot fly dropships with the KB/M. I much preferred the aiming in chromosome and back then controllers didn't have the advantage of aim assist. It was down to who was a good aim. Even still, controllers were dominant. Still though, there are those that will still argue here on the forums that the KB/M grants some sort of 'unfair advantage', the only advantage KB/M gives is turning speed while on foot. For this minor upside we suffer a lot of negatives and downsides. Chromosome did have Aim Assist. Aim Assist was taken away in Uprising 1.0 because there were problems with it. I think it was added back in, in 1.4. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 79	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:25:00 - [29] - Quote This may be a silly suggestion, and I don't use KB/M... but you may want to turn the aim-assist off and try it then. You could be used to a more 'literal' aiming system than the one Dust514 uses. I used to be a trainer, now I'm a terror. Proto doesn't matter vs. knives...
Stevez WingYip Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:27:00 - [30] - Quote I personally wish they just made everyone use a controller to keep it more balanced :(

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4621	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:27:00 - [31] - Quote Mahal Daj wrote: This may be a silly suggestion, and I don't use KB/M... but you may want to turn the aim-assist off and try it then. You could be used to a more 'literal' aiming system than the one Dust514 uses. Mouse does not get Aim Assist. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4621	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:29:00 - [32] - Quote On the bright side guysGÇª Mouse & Keyboard will be the native interface format in Legion. GÇª with controller support being the retrofitted compromise. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2919	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:40:00 - [33] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: On the bright side guysGÇª Mouse & Keyboard will be the native interface format in Legion. GÇª with controller support being the retrofitted compromise. Sorry, its still going to be UE3. Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3756	Posted - 2014.10.20 17:11:00 - [34] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: On the bright side guysGÇª Mouse & Keyboard will be the native interface format in Legion. GÇª with controller support being the retrofitted compromise. Sorry, its still going to be UE3. And if the interface in Legion is like the one we have in DUST there will be rage and screaming and people not playing. Because it is absolute trash. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
DTOracle BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 350	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:44:00 - [35] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: DPI has nothing to do with update rate. DPI is related to the full scale setting (sensitivity) of the optical sensor in the mouse. Update rate is simply how often you sample the sensor and transmit a package through the USB. Get your facts straight boy. I'm no Dev, so I won't argue your point on software vs. raw mouse input(but the data come from somewhere right?) As for my point on 'effective' DPI, it still stands. No, the DPI of your mouse does not change due to the polling rate. But if your mouse is over reporting by a 10 to 1 ratio. The in game response will feel like a reduced DPI setting. I'm am far from an expert, But I have tons of hands on experience with a variety of gaming mice in Dust514. & through actual testing, reducing your mouse's polling rate to match that of the PS3's will give you better performance, period.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2014.10.21 02:51:00 - [36] - Quote So I did some experimentation with my mouse and DUST. For reference, I use a Logitech G500s wired laser gaming mouse. I used the relevant Logitech software to change the thumb buttons to be melee, weapon switch, and grenades. I then used it to change the polling rate to 125 Hz. The difference was both immediate and very noticeable; before, while playing I used a 2000 dpi, 500 Hz poll rate settings- these were the default for the mouse. However, having changed to 125 Hz poll rate, it seems that 2000 dpi is just insanely sensitive- well past the point of controllability for myself, at the very least. Dialing down to the second default dpi setting (800 dpi) returned my sensitivity to about the same as I was used to before, but it felt significantly smoother and more responsive. An initially unknown (and unusual) side effect, however, is that the in-game mouse sensitivity settings seem to have no effect. I dropped down to something like 30 sense (I previously had ~70/52 sensitivity), and I didn't see any change in the sensitivity and responsiveness... seems like setting your poll rate to be as close as possible to the default poll rate of the PS3 means you'll have to do all your sensitivity adjustments through dpi. That being said, I feel like it's a definite improvement over before, and that's without getting to the fact that I (finally) set the thumb buttons to useful functions. It does seem that poll rate has some impact on how well the mouse functions... but that's something we'll need to get some more data to actually figure out. At the very least, it does seem like getting your USB mouse's poll rate as close to 100 Hz as possible will see some performance benefit.
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 66	Posted - 2014.10.21 03:06:00 - [37] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: On the bright side guysGÇª Mouse & Keyboard will be the native interface format in Legion. GÇª with controller support being the retrofitted compromise. Sorry, its still going to be UE3. BUT borderlands has just fine aiming on PC , and is also UE3
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2014.10.21 03:10:00 - [38] - Quote Because framerate. Borderlands on PC, as long as you have good specs, will run very smoothly (I don't think I've ever had lag in either BL1/2). As such, the framerate is either stable, high, or both. In DUST framerate is apparently inconsistent- and the only reason I say "apparently" is because I have never been able to tell the difference between different framerates unless it's blindingly obvious, like slideshow-level lag. So any claim that "PC game that is also UE3 has fine mouse aiming" can easily be put down to the much better and more consistent framerate that a PC will tend to have with such a game... and as much as I hate to admit it, better optimization on the developers' end.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2054	Posted - 2014.10.21 05:41:00 - [39] - Quote TO ALL KB/M PLAYERS So I did what someone suggested and tried playing the game at the reduced resolution, I think the lowest is like 570p or something like that. (At least that was lowest setting for HDMI connection) Granted at this resolution on my screen, things look blurry and very pixelated but I did noticed something straight away. The framerate was vastly improved. I played on that Gallente level that is notorious for lag and low framerates and lo and behold - the framerates stayed smooth and stable at this new crappy resolution. The biggest thing I noticed? KB/M actually felt a lot better. Not perfect by any means but the difference WAS very noticeable. I hope to god that with 1.9 and improved performances that we can get solid smooth framerates @720p because I would actually be able to aim then. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Jathniel G I A N T 1200	Posted - 2014.10.21 06:50:00 - [40] - Quote I use to KB/M once, then I took the DS3's Aim Assist to the knee. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17403	Posted - 2014.10.21 09:01:00 - [41] - Quote Watching thread. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2922	Posted - 2014.10.21 09:21:00 - [42] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: TO ALL KB/M PLAYERS So I did what someone suggested and tried playing the game at the reduced resolution, I think the lowest is like 570p or something like that. (At least that was lowest setting for HDMI connection) Granted at this resolution on my screen, things look blurry and very pixelated but I did noticed something straight away. The framerate was vastly improved. I played on that Gallente level that is notorious for lag and low framerates and lo and behold - the framerates stayed smooth and stable at this new crappy resolution. The biggest thing I noticed? KB/M actually felt a lot better. Not perfect by any means but the difference WAS very noticeable. I hope to god that with 1.9 and improved performances that we can get solid smooth framerates @720p because I would actually be able to aim then. ^ This. It verifies that mouse is not hardware interrupt based, it is software based. Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4638	Posted - 2014.10.21 14:20:00 - [43] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: TO ALL KB/M PLAYERS So I did what someone suggested and tried playing the game at the reduced resolution, I think the lowest is like 570p or something like that. (At least that was lowest setting for HDMI connection) Granted at this resolution on my screen, things look blurry and very pixelated but I did noticed something straight away. The framerate was vastly improved. I played on that Gallente level that is notorious for lag and low framerates and lo and behold - the framerates stayed smooth and stable at this new crappy resolution. The biggest thing I noticed? KB/M actually felt a lot better. Not perfect by any means but the difference WAS very noticeable. I hope to god that with 1.9 and improved performances that we can get solid smooth framerates @720p because I would actually be able to aim then. So, if we ran the game on something a bit more powerful than a PS3, like say a PC, then we might get similar results at a better resolution? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 236	Posted - 2014.10.21 15:01:00 - [44] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: You know what I thought would be absolutely hilarious? Sentinels and commandos fighting with Nova knives!!!! I actually saw a sentinel with knives the other day. Hilarious. Needless to say, I was owning him in my min assault, until he stopped being silly and switched back to his HMG.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2063	Posted - 2014.10.21 15:40:00 - [45] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: TO ALL KB/M PLAYERS So I did what someone suggested and tried playing the game at the reduced resolution, I think the lowest is like 570p or something like that. (At least that was lowest setting for HDMI connection) Granted at this resolution on my screen, things look blurry and very pixelated but I did noticed something straight away. The framerate was vastly improved. I played on that Gallente level that is notorious for lag and low framerates and lo and behold - the framerates stayed smooth and stable at this new crappy resolution. The biggest thing I noticed? KB/M actually felt a lot better. Not perfect by any means but the difference WAS very noticeable. I hope to god that with 1.9 and improved performances that we can get solid smooth framerates @720p because I would actually be able to aim then. So, if we ran the game on something a bit more powerful than a PS3, like say a PC, then we might get similar results at a better resolution? If this game was running on PC, we wouldn't have these arbitrary restrictions and hindrances to KB/M play. Also one would assume that we would be able to remap the controls and keys too! "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 894	Posted - 2014.10.21 15:54:00 - [46] - Quote TL;DR I am a PC gamer and former dust mouse user, now I exclusively use the DS3 controller because I play better with it due to crap mouse precision and DS3 aim assist I used to use KB/M since it was first added to dust 514, at the time I had very little experience with playing any kind of FPS with a controller, I'd just pop in every weekend during the beta to try it out. I was absolute **** at the ds3. Killing someone using an AR? Not happening. The only weapons I stood a chance with were dumbfire swarms (that was totally a thing), forge gun splash, and the shotgun. When KB/M was finally implemented I went from AR fodder to AR fodder that might kill you if you fumble your controller. Still got my ass kicked plenty, but I at least felt like I stood a chance in <20 meter fights, and if all else failed at least I could snipe. Note that I did not instantly turn into a PC Master Race hellknight slaying all I directed my baleful gaze towards with my "perfectly accurate" mouse, despite that I'd like to think I'm pretty decent at PC FPS games. I might survive a CQC fight if the enemy started with their back turned and had a worse suit. You could generously call me a mediocre player in dust. When they added Aim Assist back in, I was screwed. Suddenly I was dropping when someone sneezed at me, I had no chance of winning any kind of fight where the enemy fired back because most of their bullets would hit me while I was still putting most of my magazine into the walls on either side of him trying to follow his strafing with my mouse. I soldiered on resigning myself to being a logi, sniper, or forgegunner, pretty much the only roles I could do anything with. A few weeks after Grand Theft Auto 5 came out, I finally decided to give the controller a try in dust since being forced to use it for a week made me more comfortable with it. Difference was like night and day. Oh my god, my SMG is practically FOLLOWING that guy! I can strafe and still hit people! Hipfire shots actually work! WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THE CR WAS THIS GOOD? And the scrambler rifle. Sweet Amarrian Empress the scrambler rifle. I cannot adequately describe how much more effective it is with a controller. "But shooter, that's ridiculous! Obviously a precision weapon like the scrambler rifle would be better with a mouse! Hurr durr point n click" No. Shut up. With the mouse, I've got that "pixel skipping" thing to deal with, resulting in my charged shots grazing off your nose and my scrambler overheating, then you turn and shoot me in the face. With a controller, I charge up the scrambler rifle, aim it at you, AND FOR A FRACTION OF A SECOND THE RETICLE LOCKS ON AND I AM VIRTUALLY GUARANTEED TO HIT YOU. No more missing by one degree. No more ineffective charged shots. Overall, my performance has massively improved since I gave up on my mouse and accepted the aim assist demon into my heart. Over time, I have adapted to using all weapons with the controller, even non aim assist weapons like the forge gun and sniper rifle, and perform as well or better than I ever did with a mouse. So when I see some idiot cry about a "mouse user" killing him or having an unfair advantage through some nonsense like "ADAD super strafing", I know he's a hopeless scrub that almost certainly got killed by another DS3 user that can simply strafe and shoot better than him If he actually got killed by a mouse user despite their crippling disadvantage in cqc, even funnier
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 236	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:28:00 - [47] - Quote I wish CCP would have chosen one method and forced everyone to use it because I am soooooo sick of the kbm and ds3 users constantly complaining about the other method being so OP. Crazy annoying. This thread started out very rationally discussing the issues with kbm support. Unfortunately it has decayed (as all kbm/ds3 issue thread eventually does) into yet another "the other method is so OP" whinning thread.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2561	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:31:00 - [48] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: You know what I thought would be absolutely hilarious? Sentinels and commandos fighting with Nova knives!!!! I've done it with Am and Gal Sents, surprisingly fun. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 236	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:32:00 - [49] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: You know what I thought would be absolutely hilarious? Sentinels and commandos fighting with Nova knives!!!! I've done it with Am and Gal Sents, surprisingly fun. How successful were you?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3801	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:33:00 - [50] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: I wish CCP would have chosen one method and forced everyone to use it because I am soooooo sick of the kbm and ds3 users constantly complaining about the other method being so OP. Crazy annoying. This thread started out very rationally discussing the issues with kbm support. Unfortunately it has decayed (as all kbm/ds3 issue thread eventually does) into yet another "the other method is so OP" whinning thread. Welcome to the DUST forums, here's a vial, now go collect dem tears. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2561	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:40:00 - [51] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: You know what I thought would be absolutely hilarious? Sentinels and commandos fighting with Nova knives!!!! I've done it with Am and Gal Sents, surprisingly fun. How successful were you? Well, my favorite moment was tanking a hit from a Minja and then slicing him in half, thanks to the new Nova Knife hit sweeps (Bloody huge, really). Waddling around in the right areas, you can do pretty well in pub matches and break even in KDR, just not too terribly effective compared to everyone else. If you can stake out a stairway or a part of a building properly enclosed you should be able to lolmurder someone before dying. If you have a scout with a repper lurking with you, you can set up nice murder-zones. The basic frames work well enough for Minnies and Gals. KinCats, Stamina and a rep is what I suggest for lows. It's not competitive, but it does get kills. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
abdullah muzaffar G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 49	Posted - 2014.10.21 18:45:00 - [52] - Quote and this is why i went back to my pc the instant it got fixed.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 669	Posted - 2014.10.21 21:22:00 - [53] - Quote The mouse in this game is terrible. My particular issues are that minor mouse movements seem to be ignored (especially apparent while sniping), and that it just feels inconsistent, like movements you expect to produce certain results aren't always repeatable. The only weapons that are truly useable with the mouse are the Mass Driver and Plasma Cannon. Also, on a competitive level, even if the mouse support were perfect, it would continue to be inferior to the DS3 as long as aim assist is in the game. I find it hilarious that the Devs made a blog post about the Dispersion mechanic, when all that wonderful math is simply undone by another piece of wonderful math. If you want to use a rifle with a mouse in this game and be competitive, you need a DS3->KBM adapter, something like a XIM4. That'll put you on par with all the other expert marksmen that popped up in this game. But then you have to deal with the horrendous, situational-awareness-crippling turn speed on the DS3. And how DS3 users have been putting up with THAT is beyond me. They'd rather make 100 page long threads about "super strafing keyboard cheaters" than buff their own controls. TL;DR Mouse is screwed, DS3 is gimped but has a depleted uranium fully automatic bandaid.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2014.10.21 23:35:00 - [54] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: TO ALL KB/M PLAYERS So I did what someone suggested and tried playing the game at the reduced resolution, I think the lowest is like 570p or something like that. (At least that was lowest setting for HDMI connection) Granted at this resolution on my screen, things look blurry and very pixelated but I did noticed something straight away. The framerate was vastly improved. I played on that Gallente level that is notorious for lag and low framerates and lo and behold - the framerates stayed smooth and stable at this new crappy resolution. The biggest thing I noticed? KB/M actually felt a lot better. Not perfect by any means but the difference WAS very noticeable. I hope to god that with 1.9 and improved performances that we can get solid smooth framerates @720p because I would actually be able to aim then. ^ This. It verifies that mouse is not hardware interrupt based, it is software based. Which really just means that the "UE3 does KB/M badly" thing is true. However, it doesn't disprove in the slightest that getting your mouse's poll rate as close to 100 Hz as possible will improve mouse performance. Fox Gaden wrote: So, if we ran the game on something a bit more powerful than a PS3, like say a PC, then we might get similar results at a better resolution? That's not just a case of "maybe", so much as "ALL MY YES". Any UE3 game on PC demonstrates this very well- Borderlands 1/2, the Mass Effect series, UT3 itself; the higher and more consistent you can drive your framerate, the better your KB/M will respond in anything UE3 based. Considering how the mouse works in DUST- while also keeping in mind the PS3's optimal poll rate issues- and that DUST is also a UE3 game, and then looking out how KB/M handles in UE3 games on PC, we can pretty much conclude that if the devs can drive the framerate higher, and keep it there on a consistent basis, then mouse performance in particular WILL improve.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2014.10.21 23:49:00 - [55] - Quote matsumoto yuichi san wrote: i gave up it was soo bad :( Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Haerr Clone Manque 1676	Posted - 2014.10.22 10:16:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Watching thread. I've read through most (not all) the threads and links I could find on mouse issues and made a summary, I hope it helps... Summary of mouse issues - Input latency Issue: delay between moving the mouse and something happening on screen Causes: v-sync, post processing, anti-aliasing, frame smoothing, motions blur, etc. (any kind of frame buffers or buffers to mouse input) Fix: Turn off all the things OR add graphics setting that allow us to manually turn them off - Pixel skipping (minor mouse movements, fine adjustments, are ignored) Issue: regardless of in-game sensitivity, mouse dpi, and/or mouse polling rate there is an unavoidable minimum distance you can turn, the problem is that it is far, far greater than 1 Rotational Unreal Unit (1 URot is 2^16/360) Likely cause: ??? Fix: ??? - No raw mouse input (inconsistent response) Issue: variable response depending on frame rate (the same amount of input gives different response depending on current frame rate, you can easily see and feel this in the Gallente Lag Facility - doing a 360 degree turn you will see that it grinds to a halt while aiming into the centre of the complex) Cause: Unreal Engine does not support raw mouse input. Fix: Reprogram UE to support raw mouse input Workaround: constant frame rate minimises the effects of the issue. Allow us to set a frame limiter to the highest sustainable frame rate - as variable frame rate being the enemy and dips in frame rate being worse than the opposite. - 100Hz polling rate limit Issue: this is a subset of the "no raw" issue as it stems from having to rely on the PS3 OS mouse input Cause: PS3 OS drivers are weird, while controllers register as a 1000Hz devices they only ever update at a 100Hz interval. Since UE is limited to software input any thing that the PS3 OS does with the input is inherited by Dust Fix: Sony makes a patch Workaround: In GNU/Linux and BSD listen to the raw data of device and forward it to UE. In Windows call GetRawInputData and do the same. Well aware that it would not be necessary in either GNU/Linux, BSD, or Windows as we have access to both the USB driver and System settings. This is only to illustrate that it is possible to do a workaround that does not rely on the host OS mouse support. So make a script, or program, that listens to the raw device input and forwards it to Dust. (Raw input works for the Source engine on PS3 does it not?) - Negative acceleration Issue: moving the mouse distance X gives less response if you move the mouse quickly. (it is a lot worse with low in-game sensitivity settings.) Likely cause: ??? Fix: ??? Workaround: ??? - No player accessible options Issue: No way for us to access the settings or options we want to Fix: Just give us an advanced options somewhere, it really doesn't have to look pretty - it just needs to be there. And please no more arbitrary sensitivity scales... 0-100 without any explanation is hardly helpful. Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: Fix mouse support.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2926	Posted - 2014.10.22 10:41:00 - [57] - Quote Haerr wrote: - Pixel skipping (minor mouse movements, fine adjustments, are ignored) Issue: regardless of in-game sensitivity, mouse dpi, and/or mouse polling rate there is an unavoidable minimum distance you can turn, the problem is that it is far, far greater than 1 Rotational Unreal Unit (1 URot is 2^16 / 360) Likely cause: Round off errors when calculating rotations. Fix: Keep track of remainder of movement until the next movement update: http://blog.gimx.fr/subposition-precision-11-translation/ - Negative acceleration Issue: moving the mouse distance X gives less response if you move the mouse quickly. (it is a lot worse with low in-game sensitivity settings.) Likely cause: Acceleration parameter is not calibrated for different dropsuits' turn speed (and with modules). Fix: Calibrate mouse emulation parameters for all different classes of dropsuits. Implement a varying sensitivity/acceleration depending on what dropsuit and number of armor mods you are using. Workaround: GIMX with different profiles loaded. Fix mouse support in Dust 514! How to do it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=965407#post965407
Krightun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2014.10.24 20:11:00 - [58] - Quote Thank you all for posting, According to some the polling rate limit is 100 My 'gaming' mouse does not go down to 100, only 125. there is a difference after changing to 125, as others have said after lowering their polling rate. - Will there be any changes to kb/m or aiming with mouse in general for the next update? ..or an update in the near future? - Thanks.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 58	Posted - 2014.10.24 21:07:00 - [59] - Quote I like my keyboard and mouse more than the controller. I find the controller too uncomfortable for me to use for any length of time, whereas I can play for hours using kb/m. Using vehicles is a pain, but I'm getting better with being a gunner on a tank, although moving the turret is a pain. It's good with a sniper rifle though. Often it'll pixel jump and the mouse doesn't seem to be staying still, but I get on much better than I did with the controller. I'm still trying to improve my KDR from the few weeks I played without my kb/m - I just couldn't hit anything! But that might just be me being awkward :P
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 51	Posted - 2014.10.24 22:56:00 - [60] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Likely cause: Acceleration parameter is not calibrated for different dropsuits' turn speed (and with modules). I snipped down to just the relevant part. In case you didn't know, dropsuit turnspeeds were normalized somewhere between the end of open beta/Chrome and Uprising 1.3/1.4-ish. Also, it's never been proven that any module has an effect on turn speed. It hasn't necessarily been disproven, but as far as I know there is neither evidence for or against the possibility- at this point that contention is hearsay and guesswork. Krightun wrote: Thank you all for posting, According to some the polling rate limit is 100 My 'gaming' mouse does not go down to 100, only 125. there is a difference after changing to 125, as others have said after lowering their polling rate. Also snipped to the relevant bit- I just want to reinforce that, like you, my mouse only goes down to a poll rate of 125. There is, however, an enormous difference between a poll rate of 500 (the default on my own mouse) and 125 when plugged into the PS3; it's actually the case that I had to lower my dpi because otherwise the mouse was uncontrollably sensitive. Raptor Princess wrote: I like my keyboard and mouse more than the controller. I find the controller too uncomfortable for me to use for any length of time, whereas I can play for hours using kb/m. Using vehicles is a pain, but I'm getting better with being a gunner on a tank, although moving the turret is a pain. It's good with a sniper rifle though. Often it'll pixel jump and the mouse doesn't seem to be staying still, but I get on much better than I did with the controller. I'm still trying to improve my KDR from the few weeks I played without my kb/m - I just couldn't hit anything! But that might just be me being awkward :P If there was one thing I would demand changed about the KB/M, it would be an improvement of vehicle controls. Dropships especially- I actually just completely gave up on trying to fly dropships with the KB/M, and so I just deal with using a DS3 for that. It hasn't been too difficult, in part because the DS3 is only pulled out when I feel the need to fly. Any other time, it's the KB/M. I do agree that turret sensitivity feels weirdly sluggish. I don't think it's as bad on DS3, since the analog functionality means you just hold it in a direction and it keeps going that way, while with a mouse you have to actually pick it up and then move it around some to get a traverse. And I absolutely know what it's like to not be able to hit anything when using a DS3. What I find amusing is I feel just fine using my X360 controller plugged into my PC to play Borderlands 1/2 or Crysis 1/2/Warhead. Even using a DS3 to play my other PS3 games like Uncharted and Crysis 3 I feel pretty comfortable. But DUST is almost unplayable without using a KB/M for myself. Feels like CCP just needs to overhaul all the controls. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish

Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2014.10.24 23:10:00 - [61] - Quote I have to completely agree with Victor on this. I don't know if it has to be a client-side update or if it can be done with the hotfix. Either way, this needs to be looked into. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Haerr Clone Manque 1682	Posted - 2014.10.25 11:59:00 - [62] - Quote Turrets need to have War Thunder like mouse controls, meaning that you have a crosshair where the Turret is aiming that chases after where you put your mouse cursor, that way you can have turning limits on turrets feel ok while using mouse and keyboard. Would be awesome to actually be able to use Dropships and Tanks while using mouse and keyboard... Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: Fix mouse support.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 54	Posted - 2014.10.25 15:45:00 - [63] - Quote As far as tanks, if the mouse worked as you described it does in War Thunder, then that would be an enormous boon to KB/M users, and would really only put us on par with the DS3. For dropships, I think building the control scheme to work more like aircraft in UT3 did would be a pretty good start on refining it to the peculiarities of the DUSTy derpship. Side note: War Thunder isn't the only game that supports that style of mouse control. Seems like it's a common thing in a number of flight-sim style games... I wonder why /DUN DUN DUN Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
Haerr Clone Manque 1686	Posted - 2014.10.26 10:11:00 - [64] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: As far as tanks, if the mouse worked as you described it does in War Thunder, then that would be an enormous boon to KB/M users, and would really only put us on par with the DS3. For dropships, I think building the control scheme to work more like aircraft in UT3 did would be a pretty good start on refining it to the peculiarities of the DUSTy derpship. Side note: War Thunder isn't the only game that supports that style of mouse control. Seems like it's a common thing in a number of flight-sim style games... I wonder why /DUN DUN DUN I am really happy about the balancing work that the Devs have been doing. I just really do hope that they start iterating on the control schemes, as the control schemes are a pretty huge part of the game. Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: Fix mouse support.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 277	Posted - 2014.10.26 10:23:00 - [65] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: The mouse outright sucks but for those of us who came from PC gaming, its the only option. Apart from the lack of sensitivity, the sluggishness and overall feel, its difficult to select spawn locations using KB/M at times, we do not get the benefit of aim assist like control players do. We also pretty much cannot fly dropships with the KB/M. I much preferred the aiming in chromosome and back then controllers didn't have the advantage of aim assist. It was down to who was a good aim. Even still, controllers were dominant. Still though, there are those that will still argue here on the forums that the KB/M grants some sort of 'unfair advantage', the only advantage KB/M gives is turning speed while on foot. For this minor upside we suffer a lot of negatives and downsides. I hope aiming with a mouse is super ****** to account for how ridiculously fast my tank is i tank with one hand on Wsad keys one hand holding the right side of a controller so I have no idea how tank aiming is with mouse but speed and mobility is vastly superior in every way with tanks. no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 277	Posted - 2014.10.26 10:25:00 - [66] - Quote Haerr wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: As far as tanks, if the mouse worked as you described it does in War Thunder, then that would be an enormous boon to KB/M users, and would really only put us on par with the DS3. For dropships, I think building the control scheme to work more like aircraft in UT3 did would be a pretty good start on refining it to the peculiarities of the DUSTy derpship. Side note: War Thunder isn't the only game that supports that style of mouse control. Seems like it's a common thing in a number of flight-sim style games... I wonder why /DUN DUN DUN I am really happy about the balancing work that the Devs have been doing. I just really do hope that they start iterating on the control schemes, as the control schemes are a pretty huge part of the game. Yeah when they give you your facing aiming method they should release a second control layout for tanks with a mapped forward and reverse button so at least on that scheme ds3 isn't inferior mobility wise. For balances sake no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Haerr Clone Manque 1688	Posted - 2014.10.26 10:29:00 - [67] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Haerr wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: As far as tanks, if the mouse worked as you described it does in War Thunder, then that would be an enormous boon to KB/M users, and would really only put us on par with the DS3. For dropships, I think building the control scheme to work more like aircraft in UT3 did would be a pretty good start on refining it to the peculiarities of the DUSTy derpship. Side note: War Thunder isn't the only game that supports that style of mouse control. Seems like it's a common thing in a number of flight-sim style games... I wonder why /DUN DUN DUN I am really happy about the balancing work that the Devs have been doing. I just really do hope that they start iterating on the control schemes, as the control schemes are a pretty huge part of the game. Yeah when they give you your facing aiming method they should release a second control layout for tanks with a mapped forward and reverse button so at least on that scheme ds3 isn't inferior mobility wise. For balances sake That would make a lot of sense. Just copy the current control scheme and change the left stick to any input = full input. Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: Fix mouse support.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 277	Posted - 2014.10.26 10:37:00 - [68] - Quote Haerr wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Haerr wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: As far as tanks, if the mouse worked as you described it does in War Thunder, then that would be an enormous boon to KB/M users, and would really only put us on par with the DS3. For dropships, I think building the control scheme to work more like aircraft in UT3 did would be a pretty good start on refining it to the peculiarities of the DUSTy derpship. Side note: War Thunder isn't the only game that supports that style of mouse control. Seems like it's a common thing in a number of flight-sim style games... I wonder why /DUN DUN DUN I am really happy about the balancing work that the Devs have been doing. I just really do hope that they start iterating on the control schemes, as the control schemes are a pretty huge part of the game. Yeah when they give you your facing aiming method they should release a second control layout for tanks with a mapped forward and reverse button so at least on that scheme ds3 isn't inferior mobility wise. For balances sake That would make a lot of sense. Just copy the current control scheme and change the left stick to any input = full input. Edit: or make it scale quicker so that when the stick is "half-way-there" it gives out full input count. If you look at the old lav layout full analog vs the new one the new one is almost as good or = kbm lav no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Haerr Clone Manque 1688	Posted - 2014.10.26 10:39:00 - [69] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Haerr wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Haerr wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: As far as tanks, if the mouse worked as you described it does in War Thunder, then that would be an enormous boon to KB/M users, and would really only put us on par with the DS3. For dropships, I think building the control scheme to work more like aircraft in UT3 did would be a pretty good start on refining it to the peculiarities of the DUSTy derpship. Side note: War Thunder isn't the only game that supports that style of mouse control. Seems like it's a common thing in a number of flight-sim style games... I wonder why /DUN DUN DUN I am really happy about the balancing work that the Devs have been doing. I just really do hope that they start iterating on the control schemes, as the control schemes are a pretty huge part of the game. Yeah when they give you your facing aiming method they should release a second control layout for tanks with a mapped forward and reverse button so at least on that scheme ds3 isn't inferior mobility wise. For balances sake That would make a lot of sense. Just copy the current control scheme and change the left stick to any input = full input. Edit: or make it scale quicker so that when the stick is "half-way-there" it gives out full input count. If you look at the old lav layout full analog vs the new one the new one is almost as good or = kbm lav Oh right! Why the hell haven't they already made a tank version of that? I guess they would have to move the module selection wheel... to be honest I always wondered why that wasn't already on "Press right stick", it would have been a lot more intuative. Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: Fix mouse support.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 278	Posted - 2014.10.26 10:55:00 - [70] - Quote Cause I suggested it and they hate me lol Is why I send my slave to speak for Me lol shh no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil

Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2014.10.26 11:59:00 - [71] - Quote @Iron Wolf Saber The controls definitely need to be looked at. Regardless of whether its for the ds3 or the keyboard and mouse. Both have their pros and cons, to be sure. I was a long time PC gamer. I switch to console probably 3 years ago. I've seen players on PC that good flat stomp somebody with a keyboard and mouse but put a controller in their hands that they're absolutely terrible. That goes the other way too. I really think this is something that we all agree on. I usef the keyboard and mouse from Walmart, not a gaming set. Maybe that had something to do with it but I don't think so. That's judging from what I've read here. Can you please bring this up? I'm not sure if Rattiti can/will do anything but we need someone (CPM) to speak on our behalf. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2262	Posted - 2014.10.26 13:47:00 - [72] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: On the bright side guysGÇª Mouse & Keyboard will be the native interface format in Legion. GÇª with controller support being the retrofitted compromise. Sorry, its still going to be UE3. And if the interface in Legion is like the one we have in DUST there will be rage and screaming and people not playing. Because it is absolute trash. Don't forget the bots and hacks that being on PC will bring. Imagine your merc corp, sub-contracted to a major EVE alliance, loosing a trillion-ISK strategic nullsec battle because the other side brought better bots to the fight. Does that sound like a good thing to introduce to New Eden? And if all these other AAA shooter companies find it impossible to control bots why should we expect CCP to? PSN: RationalSpark
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2014.10.26 21:09:00 - [73] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Don't forget the bots and hacks that being on PC will bring. Imagine your merc corp, sub-contracted to a major EVE alliance, loosing a trillion-ISK strategic nullsec battle because the other side brought better bots to the fight. Does that sound like a good thing to introduce to New Eden? And if all these other AAA shooter companies find it impossible to control bots why should we expect CCP to? You must be new here, because you obviously have no idea how fantastic CCP's track record is when it comes to getting rid of botters. It's actually something of a thing in EVE, you know, the "mining bot". There's also the issue that a lot of the so-called "hacks" tend to have a greatly inflated prevalence. Now, as to anything about how "mouse should be bad, because it gives xyz advantage"... I just love how the console peasants demand that the KB/M be bad /sarcasm. I mean, it's not like KB/M guys make threads about nerfing the DS3 because it has abc advantage. Almost every KB/M user I've run into on the forums has generally been all-for fixing KB/M, and also feels that the DS3 should be good too. Do KB/M guys have a preoccupation with fixing the KB/M? Absolutely they do, considering all the console peasants that are trying to make the KB/M the worst thing ever, when it's always been the case that all of the top-tier players use a DS3. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2266	Posted - 2014.10.26 22:19:00 - [74] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Don't forget the bots and hacks that being on PC will bring. Imagine your merc corp, sub-contracted to a major EVE alliance, loosing a trillion-ISK strategic nullsec battle because the other side brought better bots to the fight. Does that sound like a good thing to introduce to New Eden? And if all these other AAA shooter companies find it impossible to control bots why should we expect CCP to? You must be new here, because you obviously have no idea how fantastic CCP's track record is when it comes to getting rid of botters. It's actually something of a thing in EVE, you know, the "mining bot". There's also the issue that a lot of the so-called "hacks" tend to have a greatly inflated prevalence. Now, as to anything about how "mouse should be bad, because it gives xyz advantage"... I just love how the console peasants demand that the KB/M be bad /sarcasm. I mean, it's not like KB/M guys make threads about nerfing the DS3 because it has abc advantage. Almost every KB/M user I've run into on the forums has generally been all-for fixing KB/M, and also feels that the DS3 should be good too. Do KB/M guys have a preoccupation with fixing the KB/M? Absolutely they do, considering all the console peasants that are trying to make the KB/M the worst thing ever, when it's always been the case that all of the top-tier players use a DS3. New here since heading out to null in 2005. CCP has been fighting those bots for a decade and they will never be done because their opponents will continue to evolve. But in DUST it won't be a case of botters making ISK mining, it'll be a case of code that gives a distinct tactical advantage, just like we see in BF and COD. And even if CCP bans peeps how do they roll back the results of important battles? The honest answer is that they can't. As for the rest of your diatribe, i'm nominating you as the resident kb/m pyro given the number of strawmen you just put up and the torch you're waving around. PSN: RationalSpark
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 677	Posted - 2014.10.26 23:23:00 - [75] - Quote Excessive hacking in Dust? Tell me more about how prevalent hacking will be when being caught means getting your 2 year old toon NUKED. Not to mention the victims of hackers will get their stuff reimbursed via petition. Hacking in Dust/Legion is a red herring, and also has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2266	Posted - 2014.10.26 23:48:00 - [76] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Excessive hacking in Dust? Tell me more about how prevalent hacking will be when being caught means getting your 2 year old toon NUKED. Not to mention the victims of hackers will get their stuff reimbursed via petition. Hacking in Dust/Legion is a red herring, and also has nothing to do with the point of this thread. Discussion was about Legion, which is on PC. Characters banned? What about alt accounts and passive sp? Do you think that's going to change if/when they roll out Legion? PSN: RationalSpark
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2014.10.27 01:17:00 - [77] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: New here since heading out to null in 2005. CCP has been fighting those bots for a decade and they will never be done because their opponents will continue to evolve. But in DUST it won't be a case of botters making ISK mining, it'll be a case of code that gives a distinct tactical advantage, just like we see in BF and COD. And even if CCP bans peeps how do they roll back the results of important battles? The honest answer is that they can't. As for the rest of your diatribe, i'm nominating you as the resident kb/m pyro given the number of strawmen you just put up and the torch you're waving around. Well then, I apologize for demeaning your experience... however, mining bots are still a serious problem, since it actually turns into something potentially more serious than some dork who's "aimbotting"- that being RMT. Moreover, just because CCP is in an eternal anti-bot/-cheat/-hack struggle, doesn't mean that nobody else is. Every other company has the same problem... it's just that, IMO, CCP has a much better track record than other companies. This is especially considering it is easier to automate a task in EVE than any other game, and yet CCP is very smoothly keeping botter populations in check. Of course, there are still botters; unfortunately, that's just going to be a given. The man-hours required to purge every botting-use account, and then ban botter accounts as soon as is possible is simply too much for a company of CCP's size. Of course, it's also my opinion that there simply does not exist a company that could pull off a bot-free multiplayer game of any kind. But CCP seems very able to keep botters in check. Moreover, it's likely that Legion will have much larger battles, that will consist of a theater of engagement with multiple districts under simultaneous assault; the truth is that the number of players who will have two or more of the following traits: 1. An interest in using third-party hacks/cheats; 2. The practical knowledge of where "trusted" sources of these hacks/cheats can be found; 3. The technical expertise to implement these on a PC system; 4. Be important/influential enough to actually matter in a battle; or 5. Be important/influential enough to convince other players in their player organization that these hacks/cheats are a good idea; is not especially significant. For the record, I say "two" because numbers 4&5 are mutually exclusive; #5 could be a singular answer but still requires #1 (IE, you might have opportunity, but you still need motive to pin a guy). Further, #4 is something of a paradox- if somebody has the sheer player skill that they can influence a single battle against a team of top-tier players who are working together, then that person by default would neither require nor have an interest in any artificial means of skill enhancement. Insofar as the pro-KB/M diatribe... all I can say is I played Chrome, when all control methods were equal (and top-tier players still used the DS3 anyways), and then we got Uprising, which for whatever reason was used to strangle the KB/M, despite there being no data present that a KB/M offered any tangible advantage for a player who is equally adept with a KB/M and DS3. As I finished writing that I realized just how much that sounded like a Viagra commercial. **The reason to use that turn of phrase is that any player who is well-practiced with one but not the other will produce invalid data for determining which one has an "advantage"; in my case I am well-practiced with the KB/M, but not the DS3, so if I were to attempt to play pure infantry with a DS3, there would be a massive performance drop on my end... but then performance would spike up to my previous "normal" when I switched back to the KB/M. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 12	Posted - 2014.10.27 02:23:00 - [78] - Quote We are getting off the subject of support needed for the controls. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1773	Posted - 2014.10.27 02:29:00 - [79] - Quote The reason aiming feels off is that most games have aim assist. Dust does not have aim assist for keyboard and mouse, because of this, you will always be at a disadvantage if you are using kb/m with weapons like the ar, lr, etc. If you are using things like mass driver, flaylock and plc youll be ok using kb/m but anything else i would say use ds3. Aim assist is too powerfull to handicap yourself using kb/m against people that use ds3. ***controls feel wierd because no AA on kb/m but they are good Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2014.10.27 02:44:00 - [80] - Quote That's an interesting take. I'm not going to out-and-out dispute it, but I would like to see some evidence of this in action- it just seems very strange, because I've never experienced anything close to AA in any PC shooter I've ever played. Buff Logis \| Nerf Goldfish

Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1919	Posted - 2014.10.27 06:36:00 - [81] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: That's an interesting take. I'm not going to out-and-out dispute it, but I would like to see some evidence of this in action- it just seems very strange, because I've never experienced anything close to AA in any PC shooter I've ever played. The only one I can think of is automatic vertical aim for really old DOS games which were played with keyboard... I know Doom had it for sure but I can't remember if Heretic, Hexen, RotT, or Duke3d did...
Krightun Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2014.11.17 01:40:00 - [82] - Quote Haerr wrote: Input delay Negative acceleration Frame rate dependant input (no raw) GÇö which leads to variable response from the same input depending on where on the map you are and which direction you are aiming Unavoidable pixel skipping Limited to using 100Hz polling rate No access to settings in any comprehensible way (arbitrary sensitivity scales) Mouse support is in a inexcusably poor state. Even if they get around to fixing one of these issues it is still going to be in a very poor state. If you want to play Dust with your mouse try to avoid playing computer FPSs because going from perfectly decent mouse settings to Dust is a frustrating tedious thing every single time, and detracts heavily from any enjoyment you can have in Dust. how's the 1.9 aim, if anything has changed.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17737	Posted - 2014.11.17 01:41:00 - [83] - Quote FPS increase has thrown everything off for me >< Everything is too jerky for me now >< And that's just the controller side of things >< CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4551	Posted - 2014.11.17 01:47:00 - [84] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I've said it before- to you in fact- but KB/M has never been the dominant aim method in the entire history of DUST. Even back in Chromosome, when KB/M was at its absolute peak, the top players (like Regnym and 13ear) used a DS3, and not KB/M. LMAO. I love when noobs who never even heard these players speak let along REMOTELY knew these players speak FALSELY on their behalf. I was in TP WITH Reg WHEN he made the switch from KBM to DS3. Uprising 1.1 mouse changes. So yeah...please don't argue this pointless BS. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2014.11.17 03:23:00 - [85] - Quote First off, the "noob" comment is completely uncalled for, and quite frankly indicates to me your general incompetence as a CPM member. Secondly, I was not specifically saying "Regnyam and 13ear only used DS3"- I was holding them up as examples of top-tier players who most likely used the DS3. As for any claim regarding either of those players' actual preferred control input method, I will personally assume it was a DS3- as it was and is by far the most common input method used by DUST players- unless and until either one or both of them opt to share that. Moreover, it's quite frankly undeniable that, at the very least, most of the top-tier players in DUST have historically and presently continue to use the DS3- it's what comes in the box, very few people actually realize that KB/M can be used in DUST, and using a KB/M is inconvenient for many people given that their PS3 is most likely connected to a TV. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4561	Posted - 2014.11.17 03:52:00 - [86] - Quote LMAO I appreciate the backpedaling. Instead of just proffering bullshit you should just admit you made it up about 13ear and Reg because you had no clue...you should have just stuck with the unprovable assertion "most of the best players used DS3" as atleast then no one could check or contest the veracity of your claim. -_-;; You are a noob. A silly noob who can't admit you made stuff up to bolster your point...and it's damaged your credibility. I think it's funny you call me incompetent as a CPM because I called you a noob. That's cute. You can try to eisegesis additional meaning into your comments...but it's just pathetically futile. SMH B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 120	Posted - 2014.11.17 03:59:00 - [87] - Quote I don't think you understand- when I said that, I honestly had no idea whether or not either of those two used a DS3 or a KB/M. They were just the first names that came to mind when I thought "top-tier DUST player". That's all. As far as the noob commenting... when it comes down to it, I consider your insulting of me, a member of the playerbase you are supposed to represent, to be an indication of incompetence because it indicates- to me- that you don't give a damn about the playerbase, and you just want to make DUST easymode for yourself. When it comes down to it, I can't admit that I made something up when I never made any claim as to its veracity in the first place. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2486	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:11:00 - [88] - Quote I wish I had videos of how good KB/M Forge Gun was with pre-1.8 Active Scanners... There's really good players on both DS3 and KB/M, but from my experiences the most terrifying players I've gone up against (like Calamity Jane II and Annie Oakley) were also KB/M users. Like, there's really smart players who excel by making the right decisions in-game and because of that they're tough to be matched up against, and then there's the guys that will just land headshots every single time they see you. Those are the scary players I'm talking about. You can't beat KB/M precision. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4567	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:14:00 - [89] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I don't think you understand- when I said that, I honestly had no idea whether or not either of those two used a DS3 or a KB/M. They were just the first names that came to mind when I thought "top-tier DUST player". That's all. As far as the noob commenting... when it comes down to it, I consider your insulting of me, a member of the playerbase you are supposed to represent, to be an indication of incompetence because it indicates- to me- that you don't give a damn about the playerbase, and you just want to make DUST easymode for yourself. When it comes down to it, I can't admit that I made something up when I never made any claim as to its veracity in the first place. Feel free to have the last word on this if you feel like it. Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I've said it before- to you in fact- but KB/M has never been the dominant aim method in the entire history of DUST. Even back in Chromosome, when KB/M was at its absolute peak, the top players (like Regnym and 13ear) used a DS3, and not KB/M. I'll let others decide if this quote to them looks like "I'm not saying this is true...I honestly have no idea whether these guys used ds3...but when KB/M was at its absolute peak, the top players (like Regnym and 13ear) used a DS3, and not KB/M" You don't have to convince ME when you said that you had no idea..i've already proven you didn't/don't. If being a member of the CPM meant I was forbidden from insulting members of the community...and especially ones who are trying to bullshit like you are right now...I would never have signed up. Quote: I consider your insulting of me to be an indication of incompetence because it indicates that you don't give a damn about the playerbase, and you just want to make DUST easymode for yourself. LMAO!! Not even worth a response. I hope the playerbase enjoys this statement as much as I do. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
dwater General Tso's Alliance 78	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:19:00 - [90] - Quote Damn he got caught red handed

KenKaniff69 2499	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:25:00 - [91] - Quote Better grab the ice ?
13ard Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:33:00 - [92] - Quote KBM is busted to **** LMAO that dude got EXPOSED Dust is bad and you all should feel bad for touching it ~Peace whiny bitches


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