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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jathniel
G I A N T
1197
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Posted - 2014.10.18 01:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:it was in the Barbershop, and something like that is happening. Not zero, but cloaked scouts will not be able to know where everyone is in a 30m radius and pick the most vulnerable target or provide passive scans for their squad while cloaked. Cloak has been too risk-free since 1.8 and you all know how we feel about risk free playstyles.
How about recloaking delay? Something of the order of 5 secs.
Blinding the scouts while cloaked isn't going to address the risk-free problem, if they can simply recloak again. Decloaking for an attack or an escape should be a planned series of action. I'm going to decloak now, attack here, and recloak 5 secs here.
If you blind the Scouts, you will simply be putting them back into the same frying pan as the other suits, and with their current HP levels, the scout will be broken again.
If you impose a recloaking delay, this will force Scouts to face the consequences of choosing to attack. But don't effect their scans. Blinding Scouts will only hurt Scouts that aren't Shotties.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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iKILLu osborne
Kirjuun Heiian
412
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Posted - 2014.10.18 02:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:it was in the Barbershop, and something like that is happening. Not zero, but cloaked scouts will not be able to know where everyone is in a 30m radius and pick the most vulnerable target or provide passive scans for their squad while cloaked. Cloak has been too risk-free since 1.8 and you all know how we feel about risk free playstyles.
what about cal scout range bonus?
I'm all for normalizing scouts scan range to a smaller radius while cloaked, but with cal scouts bonus people will cry cal scout is op when compared to other scouts.
also a fully dampened gal shotty has no counter and situational awareness is not a factor,i run shotty and i only make my move against players when they are vunerable (ie. reloading, engaging another enemy, hacking etc.)
I'm not suggesting nerfing the gal scout, but bringing precision enhancors to the same % of dampeners, cause currently my ck0 with 4 complex precision can't see a gal scout with a proto cloak and 2 c. dampeners, which isn't balance
lp cal scout i demand it
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
252
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Posted - 2014.10.18 02:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:it was in the Barbershop, and something like that is happening. Not zero, but cloaked scouts will not be able to know where everyone is in a 30m radius and pick the most vulnerable target or provide passive scans for their squad while cloaked. Cloak has been too risk-free since 1.8 and you all know how we feel about risk free playstyles.
That isn't even as much of a problem. Good players will stop and look over their shoulder periodically. The current incarnation of cloak is plenty survivable.
It's the hit detection and scouts that breaks them. Matrix dodging through bullets, lasers, explosions (explosions created on their own BODIES) with virtually no damage is what ya'll should be looking at.
If it's too complicated to be fixed so easily just say so and be done with it. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2186
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Posted - 2014.10.18 04:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:it was in the Barbershop, and something like that is happening. Not zero, but cloaked scouts will not be able to know where everyone is in a 30m radius and pick the most vulnerable target or provide passive scans for their squad while cloaked. Cloak has been too risk-free since 1.8 and you all know how we feel about risk free playstyles. Going to THE scout thread to talk about nerfing scouts is like going to the extremely wealthy to ask about tax codes, you are not going to get an honest assessment. The amount of group-think in that thread is scary. Math doesn't lie, you have the metrics, you can easily find out many correlations through math. Ask the ADS community what happens when Rattati comes to you to discuss nerfing your role and you don't give objective well thought out feedback. 
No, he doesn't "discuss." He just does without discussion. Why? Because infantry wants it, and CCP doesn't care about what pilots think.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1189
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Posted - 2014.10.18 04:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:it was in the Barbershop, and something like that is happening. Not zero, but cloaked scouts will not be able to know where everyone is in a 30m radius and pick the most vulnerable target or provide passive scans for their squad while cloaked. Cloak has been too risk-free since 1.8 and you all know how we feel about risk free playstyles. Going to THE scout thread to talk about nerfing scouts is like going to the extremely wealthy to ask about tax codes, you are not going to get an honest assessment. The amount of group-think in that thread is scary. Math doesn't lie, you have the metrics, you can easily find out many correlations through math. Ask the ADS community what happens when Rattati comes to you to discuss nerfing your role and you don't give objective well thought out feedback. No, he doesn't "discuss." He just does without discussion. Why? Because infantry wants it, and CCP doesn't care about what pilots think.
C'mon Spkr, I really don't think that is the case.
I just had a game the other day where I was trying to solo a tank(gunnlogi), I laid out... 10 proximity mines (a trap) and hit it with 2 lia dai packed AV grenades along with 1 shot from an allotek PLC before it killed me.... it ran over all 10 of the proxies mind you. I think the terrain actually glitched on that one.
I am 1-2 levels in proficiency shy of having every single AV weapon/grenade/equipment at maxxed proto and I still cannot solo good tankers or good ADS pilots. It is only when another skilled player joins the fray that we can guarantee a kill assuming the pilot doesn't bug off.
Hell I have had matches where, since the berries were using militia swarms, tanks would just chill out for a while even when under fire (situations like these make me like pulling out the proto breach forge gun.)
As an aside, I would be totally willing to back a proposal of boosting tanks to take 2-3 AV'ers to kill as long as the main turrets become AV/anti-installation only.
EWAR tool
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
69
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Posted - 2014.10.18 05:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:
You do realize that any scout who wants to stay completely unscannable will be completely unable to scan you as well - or at least, not very far. - and if they DO dedicate 2/3 damps AND 3/4 precisions, then they will have 0 tank to even fight you in.
Im not sure why you are talking about running precision mods against a scout that you know is dampened.
I dont know if you know this, but every scout except minmatar can fully damp (be unscannable to anything in the game) with 2 modules and a cloak field (not sure if minmatar take 3 damps or not). This leaves ~6 modules to do whatever they want with them, including run enough precision to find any medium/heavy frame and for amar/gallente enough low slots left over to run 500+ hp suits or some range extenders on scans or a mix of hp/range/kincats/whatever. There is no point in running more than 2 precision because the vast majority of the fits in the game will fall either well under 2, or be unscannable entirely to ANY amount of precision. In any case running precision against a fully damped up scout is just stupid, so why would I ever try it?
So what should I try? If I run anything aside from a scout, I will be subject to an enemy who goes much faster than me, can close within shotgun distance very easily and kill me inside of a couple of seconds, and knows where I am at all times within a certain range.
So I have to run a scout. What do I run? As stated above precision is 100% useless. I might run 1 precision just to have vision on the rest of the enemy team, and I can probably just stick to 1 dampener unless the enemy guy is an amarr scout. Now he cant see me, I cant see him, we are both running around slaughtering the others teamates, but no one can really stop either of us. This is not balance. This is the kind of pre-AV buff/tank nerf balance that saw half a dozen tanks every match slaughtering everything that wasnt another tank, but in this case the tanks cant see each other, so even the same fit cant counter itself. Its just a way to avoid other people doing the same exploitative ****.
IMO:
Dampeners' complete dominance over precision is the worst problem in EWAR balance right now, precision should always win, the question should be at what RANGE does it win, with precision/range enhancers extending the range and dampeners pushing it back in. Otherwise 1 precision is the only precision mod that you will ever need. Failing this, cloak+damp+shotgun just needs to be nerfed into the ******* ground.
I'd much rather have 24/7 old style perma scan in the game than have blueberries subjected to being farmed by people who are literally running around invisible with wall hack and a weapon that one shots people. For some reason this hasnt been removed from the game yet. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
69
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Posted - 2014.10.18 05:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
double post, yay |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
69
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Posted - 2014.10.18 05:45:00 -
[68] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:
It's in, but it revolves around the analog stick. The more you tilt it, the faster you move and more shimmer you produce.
Can you provide proof of this? I just wasted some of my time and a friends testing and found the shimmer was identical for all speeds, running and walking, with all different analog stick tilts.
I wish you wouldnt spout bs like this and in another of your posts where you claim "Scouts are fairly easy to spot if they're not standing still, and they can very much show up on tacnets if you have enough precision, via either passives or actives. ".
This claim is untrue, all scout frames can dampen under any precision achievable in the game as it stands now, and the first quoted claim (analog stick tilt affects shimmer intensity) also appears to be false.
Please do not try and contribute to a discussion with statements of certainty when you don't have any clue what you are talking about. |
nicholas73
Glitched Connection
252
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Posted - 2014.10.18 10:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:it was in the Barbershop, and something like that is happening. Not zero, but cloaked scouts will not be able to know where everyone is in a 30m radius and pick the most vulnerable target or provide passive scans for their squad while cloaked. Cloak has been too risk-free since 1.8 and you all know how we feel about risk free playstyles.
While you're at it why not fix bricked tanked scouts. Add +15% dampening for every armour plate they put on.
Proud member of Glitched Connection
"Only idiots start a fight they can't win" - Sora (No Game No Life)
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Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
756
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Posted - 2014.10.18 10:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Assaults get naturally countered by entrenched sentinels they try to rush down.
Sentinels are geographically countered by Commando's/Assaults taking up elevated positions with mass drivers/rail rifles, as well as scout assassins.
Commando's get wrecked by Assaults/Heavies on even terrain.
Logi's get wrecked by everyone.
Scouts get wrecked by......?
And let's not say situational awareness, because it does not exist in a game with a memory leak prone sound engine and poor frame rate. It seems to me that the only possible counter is a higher level of skill than the scout himself possesses in terms of gun game. Which is interesting really, as that is not a natural pre-requisite for any other type of counter in the game, instead a reinforcer of the mandate.
But you know, I'm experimenting with various builds due to boredom so if you have any thoughts on this please let me know.
Logi here. Can confirm. I get wrecked by everyone.
EDIT: And yes, it feels like your statement holds true about a higher level of skill scout being an ultimate counter to the scout. Which does happen to me a lot since I'm a scrubby scout.
I will say (someone mentioned earlier too) the Bolt Pistol seems to be a great counter to scouts for the moment. Scout small hitboxes with a super bullet magnetism Bolt Pistol means you aim near a scout and it ensures a hit.
And then I run across scouts with Bolt Pistols...  
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
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