DUST Search - A thought.

Joel II X wrote:

Vesta Opalus wrote:

Joel II X wrote:

So you're making the cloak even more bad than it is? Basically, by equipping and using the cloak, you'd be a walking pile of uselessness.

Will you guys at least buff the duration time a bit? Right now, it can't be used for anything other than penetrate a 30m area.

You know scouts can run at around 8 meters per second right? And even the worst cloak lasts 15 seconds. Simple math gives you 15*8 = area you can penetrate = 120m area.

Even if you walked to your target you could get 15*5 meters away, which is 75m. Again this is with the WORST cloak. The advanced cloak gives you twice as much time (240/150 meters) and the proto gives you 10 seconds more on top of that.

Just a quick tip: making claims that are trivially disprovable with simple math doesn't make your claims more believable and likely to be considered, it just makes you look like an uninformed and probably biased idiot.

That's running in a straight line, making it a one dimensional. An area consists of two directions. Forwards, and to the side. Being the mathematical genius you are, I probably look silly telling you this.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 54	Posted - 2014.10.17 15:07:00 - [1] - Quote Daily reminder that cloak/damps has no mechanics based counter in this game. The only counter is a completely unrealistic amount of 24/7 360x360 degree situational awareness devoted entirely to finding the scout which is magically maintained while dealing with objectives and the rest of the enemy team. On top of that the scout will probably have full wallhack vision on you and most of your teamates who arent exploiting the same broken mechanic. Totally reasonable.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 54	Posted - 2014.10.17 15:17:00 - [2] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: it was in the Barbershop, and something like that is happening. Not zero, but cloaked scouts will not be able to know where everyone is in a 30m radius and pick the most vulnerable target or provide passive scans for their squad while cloaked. Cloak has been too risk-free since 1.8 and you all know how we feel about risk free playstyles. 30m is still a LOT of ground. Actually 30 meters is well over half of the volume than a CreoDron Flux Active Scanner. Just in case that sound wrong, here is my method: volume of a sphere is easy; (4/3)Pir^3 volume of the wedge; integral from 0 to PI of [0.5Pir^2) He said they will NOT be able to see everyone in a 30 meter radius.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 54	Posted - 2014.10.17 16:29:00 - [3] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Assaults get naturally countered by entrenched sentinels they try to rush down. Sentinels are geographically countered by Commando's/Assaults taking up elevated positions with mass drivers/rail rifles, as well as scout assassins. Commando's get wrecked by Assaults/Heavies on even terrain. Logi's get wrecked by everyone. Scouts get wrecked by......? And let's not say situational awareness, because it does not exist in a game with a memory leak prone sound engine and poor frame rate. It seems to me that the only possible counter is a higher level of skill than the scout himself possesses in terms of gun game. Which is interesting really, as that is not a natural pre-requisite for any other type of counter in the game, instead a reinforcer of the mandate. But you know, I'm experimenting with various builds due to boredom so if you have any thoughts on this please let me know. Scout is countered by anyone who sees them from more than 15m away. (And by "see" I mean visually.) Are you making the mistake of believing all scouts use shotguns?
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 57	Posted - 2014.10.17 18:19:00 - [4] - Quote Joel II X wrote: So you're making the cloak even more bad than it is? Basically, by equipping and using the cloak, you'd be a walking pile of uselessness. Will you guys at least buff the duration time a bit? Right now, it can't be used for anything other than penetrate a 30m area. You know scouts can run at around 8 meters per second right? And even the worst cloak lasts 15 seconds. Simple math gives you 158 = area you can penetrate = 120m area. Even if you walked to your target you could get 155 meters away, which is 75m. Again this is with the WORST cloak. The advanced cloak gives you twice as much time (240/150 meters) and the proto gives you 10 seconds more on top of that. Just a quick tip: making claims that are trivially disprovable with simple math doesn't make your claims more believable and likely to be considered, it just makes you look like an uninformed and probably biased idiot.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 60	Posted - 2014.10.17 20:03:00 - [5] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Joel II X wrote: So you're making the cloak even more bad than it is? Basically, by equipping and using the cloak, you'd be a walking pile of uselessness. Will you guys at least buff the duration time a bit? Right now, it can't be used for anything other than penetrate a 30m area. You know scouts can run at around 8 meters per second right? And even the worst cloak lasts 15 seconds. Simple math gives you 158 = area you can penetrate = 120m area. Even if you walked to your target you could get 155 meters away, which is 75m. Again this is with the WORST cloak. The advanced cloak gives you twice as much time (240/150 meters) and the proto gives you 10 seconds more on top of that. Just a quick tip: making claims that are trivially disprovable with simple math doesn't make your claims more believable and likely to be considered, it just makes you look like an uninformed and probably biased idiot. That's running in a straight line, making it a one dimensional. An area consists of two directions. Forwards, and to the side. Being the mathematical genius you are, I probably look silly telling you this. Penetrate doesnt mean circumnavigate. If you honestly cant operate around a 30m area in the cloaking time available, then maybe you do need cloak to be better to compete. You can literally cross the diameter of the area you are talking about 4 times over before running out of cloak, so even if you DID mean run entirely around the area you absolutely can do that and more.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 62	Posted - 2014.10.17 21:42:00 - [6] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Did you take into account other factors such as enemies, uplinks, and pathways? I like to use the Gallente Research Facility as an example since it is a map favored to scouts, in my opinion. You can't honestly say you'll just run straight through that map with your cloak and everything will be okay. A successful penetration involves getting behind enemy lines and NOT getting spotted. Then again, everything were writing here is based on paper observations and various things can happen in battle. I usually take account the worst possible situation, because rest assured, against an organized squad, that cloak wouldn't help you as much as it should. Other factors are entirely situational. Its my opinion that the cloak time is fine. If you think its too short, then fine, but dont be surprised when you make a statement with an actual number in it and someone tears it a new one. I'd be perfectly fine with making the cloak last longer if the rest of the damn thing was nerfed or there was a counter mechanic put into the game, but right now its insane how effective it is at letting you slip away even from people in open ground taking shots at you while also enhancing already OP dampening mechanics and making it trivial to close into shotgun optimal to one shot half the suits in the game. Its not just imbalanced, theres no balance to speak of, there is no other side on the scales here, theres just cloak+damp+shotgun with no actual counter. Your only option is to use the same equipment to gain parity and rely on dumb luck to win every engagement.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 69	Posted - 2014.10.18 05:28:00 - [7] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: You do realize that any scout who wants to stay completely unscannable will be completely unable to scan you as well - or at least, not very far. - and if they DO dedicate 2/3 damps AND 3/4 precisions, then they will have 0 tank to even fight you in. Im not sure why you are talking about running precision mods against a scout that you know is dampened. I dont know if you know this, but every scout except minmatar can fully damp (be unscannable to anything in the game) with 2 modules and a cloak field (not sure if minmatar take 3 damps or not). This leaves ~6 modules to do whatever they want with them, including run enough precision to find any medium/heavy frame and for amar/gallente enough low slots left over to run 500+ hp suits or some range extenders on scans or a mix of hp/range/kincats/whatever. There is no point in running more than 2 precision because the vast majority of the fits in the game will fall either well under 2, or be unscannable entirely to ANY amount of precision. In any case running precision against a fully damped up scout is just stupid, so why would I ever try it? So what should I try? If I run anything aside from a scout, I will be subject to an enemy who goes much faster than me, can close within shotgun distance very easily and kill me inside of a couple of seconds, and knows where I am at all times within a certain range. So I have to run a scout. What do I run? As stated above precision is 100% useless. I might run 1 precision just to have vision on the rest of the enemy team, and I can probably just stick to 1 dampener unless the enemy guy is an amarr scout. Now he cant see me, I cant see him, we are both running around slaughtering the others teamates, but no one can really stop either of us. This is not balance. This is the kind of pre-AV buff/tank nerf balance that saw half a dozen tanks every match slaughtering everything that wasnt another tank, but in this case the tanks cant see each other, so even the same fit cant counter itself. Its just a way to avoid other people doing the same exploitative **. IMO: Dampeners' complete dominance over precision is the worst problem in EWAR balance right now, precision should always win, the question should be at what RANGE does it win, with precision/range enhancers extending the range and dampeners pushing it back in. Otherwise 1 precision is the only precision mod that you will ever need. Failing this, cloak+damp+shotgun just needs to be nerfed into the ***** ground. I'd much rather have 24/7 old style perma scan in the game than have blueberries subjected to being farmed by people who are literally running around invisible with wall hack and a weapon that one shots people. For some reason this hasnt been removed from the game yet.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 69	Posted - 2014.10.18 05:28:00 - [8] - Quote double post, yay
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 69	Posted - 2014.10.18 05:45:00 - [9] - Quote Joel II X wrote: It's in, but it revolves around the analog stick. The more you tilt it, the faster you move and more shimmer you produce. Can you provide proof of this? I just wasted some of my time and a friends testing and found the shimmer was identical for all speeds, running and walking, with all different analog stick tilts. I wish you wouldnt spout bs like this and in another of your posts where you claim "Scouts are fairly easy to spot if they're not standing still, and they can very much show up on tacnets if you have enough precision, via either passives or actives. ". This claim is untrue, all scout frames can dampen under any precision achievable in the game as it stands now, and the first quoted claim (analog stick tilt affects shimmer intensity) also appears to be false. Please do not try and contribute to a discussion with statements of certainty when you don't have any clue what you are talking about.