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Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 220	Posted - 2014.10.09 09:39:00 - [1] - Quote Finaly i got with to see hotfix delta and the swarm interaction with dropships. I have minmatar commando level 3 and cbr7s.Pulled out several dropships, flying the incubus and a Grimms. From the ground: Every single dropship i came across i shot down without exception. ADS, Standard it diddn't matter. I only needed 3 shots to kill an ADS and the normal ships were too slow to escape a 4th volley. I usually fire straight up once, then directly at the target, the missles still travel at right angles. I did lose a suit or two to other infantry, but it wasnt important or out of proportion to pulling out a regular infatnry suit. It wasnt costing me much and i was earning more than enough WP per suit, so no issue there. From the air: There is no escape from swarms. Getting kills is still viable, as long as you focus on fighting undefended infantry with missiles. 1 swarmer and you are going to be toast. I didn't lose a single ship to forge guns but every ship i used went down to proto swarms. Exactly as i predicted , my ADV incubus simply cannot tank 3 proto swarm missiles, whereas i had a slim chance at getting out of dodge pre delta, now its zero. I was flying in a dominatioin attacking uplinks on the high ledge on fracture road. Its more than 90m up, not hovering, and cerrtainly 90m+ from any other elevated position, surley if i afterburn away towards the redline no problem, like Ratatti said . Imagine my surprise (or lack there of seeing as i had been swarming earlier) when i explode above the CRU closest to our MCC. Balanced? far from it. For swarms, as long as there is time to get a lock every single misile will connect. There is no counter measureI'm starting to think they did get an inadverdent range buff, but i'll have to test that out. Frankly its rock paper scissors, which is not fair to anyone. Infantry can still be beat up by missile turets, swarms then kill dropship ad naueseam, swarmers die dropships come out again maybe blah blah blah. Dropships are (barely) more spammable than before. Air to Air is dead. Air vs forge is still exciting, Air vs swarms = I win button for swarms. I would just tone down swarms a bit, really nerf thier turn speed, and buff thier damage so pilots can dodge them well enough, and let light weapons damage the ADS. Small arms are dangerous to every aircraft why not here. You fly into a crowd of troops they can at least shoot back hard enough to drive you off without hqving to die first to swtich onto AV. Swarm suits will be more specialist and obviously more dangerous. Hard to hit the ships but what hits you do land will do tremendous damage. Swwamers get a accuracy bonus skill so that swarms turn better and better and are more likley to land a hit. TL;DR Doesn't matter because the swam vs ADs discussion is closed down permenantly. thats why its here in General discussions rather than feedback. Right now with as i have anecdotally seen with my anecdotal eyes swarm balance right now is an anecdotal joke. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 827	Posted - 2014.10.09 09:56:00 - [2] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: From the air: There is no escape from swarms. If you are a suck pilot. Lvl 5 Minmando, Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher (prof 3 or 4) I generally find that most sensible pilots have got the **** out of dodge before i can get the 3rd volley off... and outside of militia DS most ADS I see can tank 3 volleys. ADS can still hit that afterburner, increase altitude and outrun swarms.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 220	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:02:00 - [3] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: From the air: There is no escape from swarms. If you are a suck pilot. Lvl 5 Minmando, 2 complex DMG mods, Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher (prof 3 or 4) I generally find that most sensible pilots have got the **** out of dodge before i can get the 3rd volley off... and outside of militia DS most ADS I see can tank 3 volleys easily. ADS can still hit that afterburner, increase altitude and outrun swarms. With my skills unlocked here's my incubus fit enh Light rep, enh Heavy plate, enh PG upgrade, 1 enh missile nose turret, basic burner for 315/515 cpu and 1108 pg/1182. shield 950, armor 4762 ehp 4762 According to protofits Your level 5 minando does 384 base per missile or 1536 damge per shot. 1,382 against shield and then + 30% so 1996.8 dmg vs armor. 3 volleys from your fit does 5375 damge to an Incubus. A fully proto out incubs has ehp 5197 hp. If you cant kill one, then i don't know what to tell you. 3 volleys from you will kill any ship. And every single missle you get a lock on with will land regardless of what the pilot does. If im in the open like say, oh i dunno the sky mabye?Which building should i hide behind when youre on the tallest one thats it my ship is doomed. That being said, woudn't you rather actually give the other troops the ability to fight back agains tthe ADs without having to resort to swarms? You dont want to further boost damage and yet nerf the turn radius of missiles so that pilots can actually pull of evasive manouvers? Better for both the ground and the Air i say. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1057	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:15:00 - [4] - Quote Ikr theres not escape from swarm launchers and every game i went into has people pulling swarm launchers out of their ass and start blapping away Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 803	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:36:00 - [5] - Quote The only issue with swarms now is the damage profile of swarms. The minus 15-20% damage to shields means that vs gunnlogi and pythons ads damage is far too minimal, proficiency is worthless and the ads or hav has plenty of time to escape. I bet that for every 10 armour tanking vehicle I only take 1 gunnlogi and never a python (min com 5, 2 complex damage mods, prof 4 swarms, rapid reload 4 using wiyrkomis) perhaps alter damage profile to neutral and change proficiency to a simple flat out damage increase or perhaps +15m to lock range Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
La Lore Sleipnier THE PR0T0TYPE 126	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:37:00 - [6] - Quote Swarms hits always, no matter what you do, you can run but have no scape. Now the game is not balanced... Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos... https://dust514.com/recruit/MfQjol/
Atiim 12840	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:37:00 - [7] - Quote Reserved. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 221	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:43:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Reserved. Reserved. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 221	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:52:00 - [9] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: The only issue with swarms now is the damage profile of swarms. The minus 15-20% damage to shields means that vs gunnlogi and pythons ads damage is far too minimal, proficiency is worthless and the ads or hav has plenty of time to escape. I bet that for every 10 armour tanking vehicle I only take 1 gunnlogi and never a python (min com 5, 2 complex damage mods, prof 4 swarms, rapid reload 4 using wiyrkomis) perhaps alter damage profile to neutral and change proficiency to a simple flat out damage increase or perhaps +15m to lock range Kind of a non-issue really, because Caldari Shields have a resist to only one kind of AV the swarm launcher, shield hardners add 60% resist on top of that, and hield HP is always lower than armor HP. Shields are much more vulnerable to plasma cannons and forge guns. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2822	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:57:00 - [10] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Atiim wrote: Reserved. Reserved. reserved. FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.

RayRay James Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 487	Posted - 2014.10.09 12:02:00 - [11] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Atiim wrote: Reserved. Reserved. reserved. reserved table for 2. 6:30 PM please, that should get us enough time to change after work.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1931	Posted - 2014.10.09 13:17:00 - [12] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Atiim wrote: Reserved. Reserved. reserved. reserved table for 2. 6:30 PM please, that should get us enough time to change after work. reserved awaiting some sort of fancy comment "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2158	Posted - 2014.10.09 13:24:00 - [13] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: From the air: There is no escape from swarms. If you are a suck pilot. Lvl 5 Minmando, 2 complex DMG mods, Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher (prof 3 or 4) I generally find that most sensible pilots have got the **** out of dodge before i can get the 3rd volley off... and outside of militia DS most ADS I see can tank 3 volleys easily. ADS can still hit that afterburner, increase altitude and outrun swarms. You're doing it wrong then. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 221	Posted - 2014.10.09 13:29:00 - [14] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: RayRay James wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Atiim wrote: Reserved. Reserved. reserved. reserved table for 2. 6:30 PM please, that should get us enough time to change after work. reserved awaiting some sort of fancy comment we are fully booked for 6:30 sir, we have an opening at 9:00 Mr. Bolt. You may arrive early to see if there is a no show but we can only offer you a place Soon tm. We have the finest QQ available for your selection. Would you like a vintage 1.7 Ambush Tank Spam? or an Earthy Cal lLogi514 variety? The AR514 is quite a popular choice., as well as the ever popular Respec. Hotfix Delta is more the bitter variey. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1931	Posted - 2014.10.09 13:35:00 - [15] - Quote Being deadly honest now, with a near maxed out python pilot on my alt.... Vs 1 proto swarmer, if my reactions are good I can escape, and when I say good I mean they have to be spot on unless there is some form of cover. Vs 2 proto swarmers unless you gtfo the second any one of them fires, there is no chance to escape. I can deal with things the way they are, I think you guys might need to learn to fly a little more safely. That being said, swarms do do more DMG vs armour dropships. I can tell you this, if swarms did any more damage vs shields then I wouldn't even bother flying. Its already a hell of a lot of work to stay alive in those things as it is. And lets be honest the role is very very unrewarding. Also I notice people always forget about other actual counters to the ADS. I'm not talking about swarms I'm not even talking about forges (though they are both great vs the ADS) People always forget about railgun tanks at a distance, rail gun installations, missile tanks at a distance and even missile installations. Now personally I have become accustom to the new order of things, but still, the role is very unrewarding in terms of WP and for the love of god we NEED TO FIX GOD DAMN DROPSHIP COLLISION. Because the damage output of ADS`s has been nerfed so much, almost nobody fights in the skies anymore, if they see a shield ADS and they are in armour, they ram you every time. Its a gaping hole in gameplay that needs to be fixed. It should tell you everything you need to know about Air VS Air. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1245	Posted - 2014.10.09 13:36:00 - [16] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: From the air: There is no escape from swarms. If you are a suck pilot. Lvl 5 Minmando, 2 complex DMG mods, Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher (prof 3 or 4) I generally find that most sensible pilots have got the ** out of dodge before i can get the 3rd volley off... and outside of militia DS most ADS I see can tank 3 volleys easily. ADS can still hit that afterburner, increase altitude and outrun swarms. You're doing it wrong then. Please , don't give these scrubs any more ammo then they need , there crying about a weapon that has a less then 200 m range and a 2 to 3 second lock on time ... that's more then enough time to escape and they have the most maneuverability of all vehicles with the best escape as well . If they sit around long enough to get swarmed then they deserve all that they get . These were the same ones who talked crap about HAV users , until they were hit themselves and now it's " Oh , woe is me " . They would fly around instablapping anything and anyone in their path . I bet the next time anything that comes up about vehicles , they will watch what they say because it effects them as well , not just tankers or LAV drivers . I told them , anything that they do to tankers will have an effect on them as well but they didn't listen and look at them now . These are some of the main people who talked crap about tankers and now they see what they didn't at the time . Instead of talking crap , come with solutions that will help and not handicap the role or else , you might be next . Your not just pilots , your vehicle users . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .**
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1245	Posted - 2014.10.09 13:44:00 - [17] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Now personally I have become accustom to the new order of things, but still, the role is very unrewarding in terms of WP and for the love of god we NEED TO FIX GOD DAMN DROPSHIP COLLISION. Because the damage output of ADS`s has been nerfed so much, almost nobody fights in the skies anymore, if they see a shield ADS and they are in armour, they ram you every time. Its a gaping hole in gameplay that needs to be fixed. It should tell you everything you need to know about Air VS Air. So you can Jihad jeep but not be a Kamikaze pilot ? I'm not knocking you CB but it's a viable tactic , just like jihad jeeps are . What is with double standards in this community ??? Again , not a knock against you CB because your not the only one who feels the way that you do but you had the courage to say what you said and I can do nothing but applaud you for that . It's a viable tactic though . Edit : If CCP does " fix " collision damage , then they need to get rid of the jihad jeeps as well , its only right . More double standards and bias . Ground vehicles have it so much more harder then any airship . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Atiim 12840	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:00:00 - [18] - Quote Nevermind, wrong post The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 223	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:01:00 - [19] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: From the air: There is no escape from swarms. If you are a suck pilot. Lvl 5 Minmando, 2 complex DMG mods, Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher (prof 3 or 4) I generally find that most sensible pilots have got the **** out of dodge before i can get the 3rd volley off... and outside of militia DS most ADS I see can tank 3 volleys easily. ADS can still hit that afterburner, increase altitude and outrun swarms. You're doing it wrong then. Please , don't give these scrubs any more ammo then they need , there crying about a weapon that has a less then 200 m range and a 2 to 3 second lock on time ... that's more then enough time to escape and they have the most maneuverability of all vehicles with the best escape as well . If they sit around long enough to get swarmed then they deserve all that they get . These were the same ones who talked crap about HAV users , until they were hit themselves and now it's " Oh , woe is me " . They would fly around instablapping anything and anyone in their path . I bet the next time anything that comes up about vehicles , they will watch what they say because it effects them as well , not just tankers or LAV drivers . I told them , anything that they do to tankers will have an effect on them as well but they didn't listen and look at them now . These are some of the main people who talked crap about tankers and now they see what they didn't at the time . Instead of talking crap , come with solutions that will help and not handicap the role or else , you might be next . Your not just pilots , your vehicle users . Calm down, calm down. i dont know about crying but i do know you're getting awfully worked up over your scrub crutch. Swarms are not the godsend savior of infantry dude. I want all infantry with light weapons to be able to properly damage a dropship, so they won't go instapopping anyone without AV. I want swarm turn radius nerfed and Damage buffed so that the autolocks are not a garunteed hit, and the ones you do land will really, really hurt a dropship. Here's a tip before you get all accusatory: got to dustsearch.com. You type my name in the search engine and you can see every post i have ever made. Find it where i was talking crap about tanks. I'll admit, yes i was against redline tanks that can shoot from one redline into the opposite one, that broke the game for all vehicles, dropships AND tanks who left the redline. thats why i'm not saying you are ''the same people as' blah blah', partly because i don't know you, mostly because i try not to claim what i can't back up. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1931	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:11:00 - [20] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Now personally I have become accustom to the new order of things, but still, the role is very unrewarding in terms of WP and for the love of god we NEED TO FIX GOD DAMN DROPSHIP COLLISION. Because the damage output of ADS`s has been nerfed so much, almost nobody fights in the skies anymore, if they see a shield ADS and they are in armour, they ram you every time. Its a gaping hole in gameplay that needs to be fixed. It should tell you everything you need to know about Air VS Air. So you can Jihad jeep but not be a Kamikaze pilot ? I'm not knocking you CB but it's a viable tactic , just like jihad jeeps are . What is with double standards in this community ??? Again , not a knock against you CB because your not the only one who feels the way that you do but you had the courage to say what you said and I can do nothing but applaud you for that . It's a viable tactic though . Edit : If CCP does " fix " collision damage , then they need to get rid of the jihad jeeps as well , its only right . More double standards and bias . Ground vehicles have it so much more harder then any airship . Oh man I understand you totally. However when a jihad jeep rams a tank, the idea is that both parties die in the ensuing explosion right? When an Armour kamikaze DS hits a shield DS, ONLY the shield dropship dies and that is wrong. If someone wants to kamikaze me, at the very least they should also die! Even so, the risk vs reward is certainly off balance. A 300k+ dropship vs a 40k ish kamikaze? Also I have to say I disagree with your analysis. An aware tanker can easily take out a jihad jeeper. You have rough terrain that slows the LAV down, you can swing the turret around on the tank and blow up that pesky jeeper. In an ADS spotting a kamikaze rammer is hard enough, dodging it is difficult indeed however taking it out is a different beast all together. I have played many roles n this game, I do not wish to remove kamikaze nor jihad jeeps. I just think there needs to be balance. The tank has balance because you can spot and kill the jihad jeeper. The ADS is at pains to even find the encroaching kamikaze pilot and certainly will have a tough time trying to kill said kamikaze pilot. "Fit an active scanner" I hear you say, lets be honest that is a no go for a Python pilot. We cannot afford to lose any of our precious shield slots. We cant even fit all proto mods as it is! So yea TLDR - Balance with ALL roles, that includes both sides of the kamikaze maniacs and the pilots and tankers. However as it stands the Python ADS has a distinct and tangible disadvantage right now. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 223	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:14:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Nevermind, wrong post Mr. Bolt? A table has just opened up, for you and Mr. Shinobi. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1931	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:31:00 - [22] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Atiim wrote: Nevermind, wrong post Mr. Bolt? A table has just opened up, for you and Mr. Shinobi. Haha. I was waiting for the comment, the table is for the other gentleman Give the guy a break though, Attim is usually a voice of reason on the forums. I might not always agree with him but I respect his position as he has done more than most in this game. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 108	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:46:00 - [23] - Quote I cant remember ever been brought down by a swarm launcher despite the fact that I get hit by them quite often and I am a casual player at heart. what does it tell us about the OP
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1245	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:56:00 - [24] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Atiim wrote: Nevermind, wrong post Mr. Bolt? A table has just opened up, for you and Mr. Shinobi. Haha. I was waiting for the comment, the table is for the other gentleman Give the guy a break though, Attim is usually a voice of reason on the forums. I might not always agree with him but I respect his position as he has done more than most in this game. I agree with CB and like I was saying , I'm not knocking him because I think he has some good opinions from what I see of him but the only table that I'm interested in is the one that I separate my Kush on before I roll it up and smoke , now if CB wants to smoke with me ... I'm all for that but just one thing , no discussions about Dust ... please . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 223	Posted - 2014.10.09 15:00:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: [i will probably retire from the posting Yawn. Fixed it for you. Logical fallacies everywhere. - You compare MAXED out hp fits to my own. fair enough, lets compared maxed out swarms to maxed out ships. You have the damage for swarms wrong. Already you on the wrong foot. Its easy, max out swarms on protofits, multily by 4, add 30% vs armor and -10% vs shields. Its not hard, and i had the guy at prof 4 not 5, and did'nt add in damage mods. Maxed out 394 per missile. x 4 missiles = 1576 per volley. 4728 for three volleys. How about a comlex damage mod + enhanced damage mod? 12% + 4728 = 5,295 damage. This without factoring the bonus to armor. That maxed out Incubus is dead already. you're maxed out 5648 eHP Grimmes is dead. in 4, and i would love to see a grimness get away fast enough to not tank 4 shots with rapid reload maxed. it aint happening. Without bonus to armor. Stop being butthurt. Bring some game next time. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 223	Posted - 2014.10.09 15:04:00 - [26] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: I cant remember that I have ever been brought down by a swarm launcher after the lock on was cut down to almost melee range despite the fact that I get hit by them quite often and I am a casual player at heart. what does it tell us about the OP That i good sir, like to thrust into the heart of the enemy! Seriously though, who else is going to go after roof campers. I'm not about to let my team get beat to **** from up there , but once the swarms make it up, sad day for the dropship. I don't know what you do when you fly, please share. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1247	Posted - 2014.10.09 15:55:00 - [27] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Calm down, calm down. i dont know about crying but i do know you're getting awfully worked up over your scrub crutch. Swarms are not the godsend savior of infantry dude. I want all infantry with light weapons to be able to properly damage a dropship, so they won't go instapopping anyone without AV. I want swarm turn radius nerfed and Damage buffed so that the autolocks are not a garunteed hit, and the ones you do land will really, really hurt a dropship. Here's a tip before you get all accusatory: got to dustsearch.com. You type my name in the search engine and you can see every post i have ever made. Find it where i was talking crap about tanks. I'll admit, yes i was against redline tanks that can shoot from one redline into the opposite one, that broke the game for all vehicles, dropships AND tanks who left the redline. thats why i'm not saying you are ''the same people as' blah blah', partly because i don't know you, mostly because i try not to claim what i can't back up. Your telling me to " Calm Down " but you seem awfully worked up about defending yourself , I speak in general terms because , if it's not YOU that I'm speaking about , then YOU should not feel bothered by any comment and it would be tedious to point out every single person , put up a link to the post of the person who made the comment to prove when and what was said and I don't have the time to do so , so I speak in general terms . If it's not YOU personally , then YOU should not feel like I'm talking to YOU per say . No one puts up links to everything that's said by an individual , lets get real now . I didn't realize that I was or sounded worked up either , just pointing out things that are true about the environment that this community is . Sometimes a persons guilt leads to that person making comments of defense , if YOU were not mentioned , like I'm doing now OP , then you shouldn't feel like you have to or had to defend yourself . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 803	Posted - 2014.10.09 15:55:00 - [28] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: The only issue with swarms now is the damage profile of swarms. The minus 15-20% damage to shields means that vs gunnlogi and pythons ads damage is far too minimal, proficiency is worthless and the ads or hav has plenty of time to escape. I bet that for every 10 armour tanking vehicle I only take 1 gunnlogi and never a python (min com 5, 2 complex damage mods, prof 4 swarms, rapid reload 4 using wiyrkomis) perhaps alter damage profile to neutral and change proficiency to a simple flat out damage increase or perhaps +15m to lock range Kind of a non-issue really, because Caldari Shields have a resist to only one kind of AV the swarm launcher, shield hardners add 60% resist on top of that, and hield HP is always lower than armor HP. Shields are much more vulnerable to plasma cannons and forge guns. All av is primarily vs armour. Only av vs shields are flux and plasma cannon and hitting a python with either isn't exactly easy and gunnlogis can move out the way of a plasma cannons and flux's quite easily. A small tweak to damage profiles and proficiencies would help balance things finally and if av proficiency is tailored away from damage increases and more to improving performance of the av it wouldnt end up too op. Forge prof +1 to clip size per level. Swarms to 15m lock range per level, plasma cannon prof increase to plasma bolt flight speed etc. That way the extra damage to shields from a neutral damage profile is balanced by losing specified damage increase but we get small tweaks to our av of choices performance Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 508	Posted - 2014.10.09 17:06:00 - [29] - Quote Quick question... Every time you guys 'do the maths' do you include the weak points? Because sometimes I notice a severe difference in damage from these things and I'm guessing it's because the balance is based on shooting the front end not the back half. Maybe we should remove the weak points and see how that changes things, although that would suck for us forgers, so if there's a way to just stop the swarms dealing that extra damage (if you can't miss what's the problem with the damage only ever hitting it's intended amount?)
Moochie Cricket Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 761	Posted - 2014.10.09 18:54:00 - [30] - Quote Lets forget about "balance" for a minute. For those that know me, I am as hard core of a Caldari loyalist as there can be. I only skill up Caldari tech and only use Caldari tech (except for flux grenades). I have every Caldari suit, weapon, and vehicle at proto (except for Cal heavy and forge, which are at adv), and I HATE the mechanics of the swarm launcher. It is a weapon that aims for you and requires no skill other than situational awareness. Something needs to be done but I'm not sure what yet. However, I do like the idea of swarm with faster speed, more damage, bigger clip/ammo, increased range and lockon time, but a greatly increased turn radius. And when I say bigger turn radius, I mean big enough to where we swarmers would have to lead a moving target and us pilots could have a chance to dodge shots if we see them coming. Thoughts? GLORY TO THE STATE



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