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scrambler rifle got nerfed to hard.

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CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1665	Posted - 2014.10.06 13:41:00 - [1] - Quote is it possible for CCP to do some data mineing in PC battles because the scrambler rifle i believe was unfairly nerfed off of pub match data. the amarr assault was rarely used in PC before this patch and it has pretty much killed it in competition LvL. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3413	Posted - 2014.10.06 13:47:00 - [2] - Quote It seems to kill just fine. And balancing off of 1% of the playerbase is stupid.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1666	Posted - 2014.10.06 13:55:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: It seems to kill just fine. And balancing off of 1% of the playerbase is stupid. its not fine dude and there should never be anything that only works in pub matchs but useless in PC. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3415	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:01:00 - [4] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: It seems to kill just fine. And balancing off of 1% of the playerbase is stupid. its not fine dude and there should never be anything that only works in pub matchs but useless in PC. You need to provide more data than "no one uses it." This doesn't tell us WHY no one uses it. Honestly with the armor meta I'm amazed ANYONE In PC used it. Its crap for popping gallente and amarr dropsuits. In pubs where people run cal and min fits it performs as well as any other rifle. So if you want to assert that it was overnerfed you need to give reasons not anecdotes. Preferrably with math.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1666	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:11:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: It seems to kill just fine. And balancing off of 1% of the playerbase is stupid. its not fine dude and there should never be anything that only works in pub matchs but useless in PC. You need to provide more data than "no one uses it." This doesn't tell us WHY no one uses it. Honestly with the armor meta I'm amazed ANYONE In PC used it. Its crap for popping gallente and amarr dropsuits. In pubs where people run cal and min fits it performs as well as any other rifle. So if you want to assert that it was overnerfed you need to give reasons not anecdotes. Preferrably with math. how things perform in game has never been about math or on paper DPS values. we all know the factors that made the scrambler rifle good in pubs but rarely used in PC. there has to be a way to balance it in both game modes and thats what i would like to discuss. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3415	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:29:00 - [6] - Quote Making laser weapons viable in PC is more a matter of getting a PC group out of the EHP>ALL mindset. In order for the laser to become viable in PC there simply must be a shift to shield usage. IE more cal and min suits. The loss of the ability to use a modded controller to spike the SR to damn near Assault rifle RoF just put the nail on the coffin of the weapons for the more diehard users. But there needs to be a few things that change. One is the whole armor meta. That should have dropped off a bit with the change to the CR making it less effective against shields. The problem is that no one (except jerks like me) use the suits to full effect. HMG caldari sentinels are now highly competitive and can match gallente pound for pound without being autogibbed. But very few people except AV gunners use caldari sents. My caldari suits tend to live longer because I can drop back and recover when I'm not being an obsessive murder lemming. But hardly anyone uses scrams on me because of the gallente suit spam.
y678iop Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:57:00 - [7] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: It seems to kill just fine. And balancing off of 1% of the playerbase is stupid. its not fine dude and there should never be anything that only works in pub matchs but useless in PC. Im sure you are correct about PC, but Breakin is right, you have to balance off of pubs, thats the vast majority and the most important part of any game. PC might be elite but it is very few players, and many pc matches are just isk farms now anyway. This is an alt. It is here to be banned, so that I may be outrageous and speak the TRUTH.
Atiim 12790	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:31:00 - [8] - Quote The reason why SCRs don't perform well in PC is because it has -20% against Armor, which everyone (except oddly my corp) uses as their preferred tanking style. But while I'm here, do enlighten me on how you would balance it for PC, but not PUBs. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5515	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:32:00 - [9] - Quote I haven't noticed much change at all with mine. (Prof IV. DS3. No turbo.) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3197	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:33:00 - [10] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: It seems to kill just fine. And balancing off of 1% of the playerbase is stupid. its not fine dude and there should never be anything that only works in pub matchs but useless in PC. Lol that sentence described about 99% of all the items in Dust. It's easier to list the things that do work in PC, trust me that if the ScR doesn't work in PC it has nothing to do with CCP but the player base and turn current fotm. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1899	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:40:00 - [11] - Quote An interesting discussion. First off, where do we begin as the point of balance for the scrambler rifle? Do we begin at the base weapon? Do we begin at Amarr assault level 5 coupled with the scrambler? etc.. Not many other weapons have such varying levels of performance purely depending on what suit they are on. The combat rifle coupled with Minmatar assault or commandos with their racial flavours of weapons are probably the next nearest thing to compare against. Even still, the Amarr assault bonus is quite a different beast to the other bonuses. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Atiim 12790	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:43:00 - [12] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: An interesting discussion. First off, where do we begin as the point of balance for the scrambler rifle? Do we begin at the base weapon? Do we begin at Amarr assault level 5 coupled with the scrambler? etc.. Not many other weapons have such varying levels of performance purely depending on what suit they are on. The combat rifle coupled with Minmatar assault or commandos with their racial flavours of weapons are probably the next nearest thing to compare against. Even still, the Amarr assault bonus is quite a different beast to the other bonuses. The next nearest thing to compare in terms of scaled efficiency are SLs and PLCs, as they also have wildly different levels of efficiency based in core skills and what Dropsuit is being used. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 493	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:50:00 - [13] - Quote Balancing for pubs = making it balanced. Balancing for PC = making it better than everything else, because people spam the easiest **** to be "competative." Your problem is clearly the lack of incentive to use shield suits, constant rep and a Logi that can keep your health pumping is better than any minor "recharge rate" advantage that shields get, because no one with a brain is going to drop your shields and then let you hide behind a wall for a minute to start the recharge. A rep tool for shields may be Over-powered because you'd instantly get the shields recharging themselves as well, so perhaps a recharge tool that has a cooldown and simply triggers the recharge + a much needed nerf to the armour rep tool to stop it being constantly spammed would probably even out the suits a bit.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 397	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:52:00 - [14] - Quote It overheats too fast now. The RoF is still fine. The hipfire nerf wasn't necessary I don't think, but I'm not too bent out of shape about that. But the overheat is just terrible now. Amarr Assault now makes it as good as it used to be on non Amarr Assaults, roughly. ScRs can barely dish out 1000 damage before it blows up in the users face now. Killing heavies, commandos, and even assaults is disproportionately hard compared to the other rifles now. Good luck against an armor sentinel. Your gonna need to get the drop on them, and land every shot in their head to kill them.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1899	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:55:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: An interesting discussion. First off, where do we begin as the point of balance for the scrambler rifle? Do we begin at the base weapon? Do we begin at Amarr assault level 5 coupled with the scrambler? etc.. Not many other weapons have such varying levels of performance purely depending on what suit they are on. The combat rifle coupled with Minmatar assault or commandos with their racial flavours of weapons are probably the next nearest thing to compare against. Even still, the Amarr assault bonus is quite a different beast to the other bonuses. The next nearest thing to compare in terms of scaled efficiency are SLs and PLCs, as they also have wildly different levels of efficiency based in core skills and what Dropsuit is being used. I really dont have any experience with swarms at all so I will take your word for it, and the plc you mean coupled with a Gallente commando? I love the plc on my scout, I would be interested to know how different it becomes on the commando. But yea there are things we can compare against but you would agree that the Amarr assault bonus is a factor in the weapon balance for sure. I actually quite like how it really makes the weapon shine but I can't talk from a PC perspective and that was what this thread was about I guess. (Not only that the bonus is super awesome the the LR as well but that's besides the point) "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
The Master Race Immortal Guides 80	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:02:00 - [16] - Quote I would say the gent that brought up rof change hit the nail on the head. Since you can easily buy a mouse with turbo any weapon that allows abuse is and will be abused. Sucks for you bro I guess you will just have to use the Tac AR to cheat "so you can be like the pros(rolls eyes)". New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1670	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:12:00 - [17] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: It overheats too fast now. The RoF is still fine. The hipfire nerf wasn't necessary I don't think, but I'm not too bent out of shape about that. But the overheat is just terrible now. Amarr Assault now makes it as good as it used to be on non Amarr Assaults, roughly. ScRs can barely dish out 1000 damage before it blows up in the users face now. Killing heavies, commandos, and even assaults is disproportionately hard compared to the other rifles now. Good luck against an armor sentinel. Your gonna need to get the drop on them, and land every shot in their head to kill them. that is what i mean by the nerf the rate of fire is fine and hipfire i can live with but that over heat now is ********. see there is a wall when balanceing the scrambler rifle and that is the overheat. its like takeing the combat rifle and nerfing it to a 20 shot clip makeing it unable to kill most targets. and here is where the balance problem comes in make the overheat to fast and you can kill starter suits in pubs no problem but it fails at killing proto suits. make the overheat to slow then it is to strong at killing starter suits in pubs but balanced in PC. but then you have weapons like the combat rifle that kill anything. believe me i did not spend all this SP and time on maxing the amarr assault and scrambler rifle just to have something that only works in pubs. so how can we balance the gun for both gamemodes? KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:35:00 - [18] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: It overheats too fast now. The RoF is still fine. The hipfire nerf wasn't necessary I don't think, but I'm not too bent out of shape about that. But the overheat is just terrible now. Amarr Assault now makes it as good as it used to be on non Amarr Assaults, roughly. ScRs can barely dish out 1000 damage before it blows up in the users face now. Killing heavies, commandos, and even assaults is disproportionately hard compared to the other rifles now. Good luck against an armor sentinel. Your gonna need to get the drop on them, and land every shot in their head to kill them. I am glade someone finally explained it. I donGÇÖt use the Scrambler Rifle. I donGÇÖt use the Amarr Assault suit. I donGÇÖt do PC. So, no, I did not know why the Scrambler Rifle was having trouble in PC. But I was interested in knowing, so I am glad someone explained it. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3420	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:53:00 - [19] - Quote I haven't used the damn scram on an amarr assault since the last SP respec. I decided to play with the new LOLmandos. That goddamn thing overheats faster than a calscout runs, I will agree. it blows up in my face at right around 7-10 shots if I'm not madly spamming and don't use the charge function. the amarr assault bonus is the only way to make the bastard viable really.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1670	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:02:00 - [20] - Quote i just wish they nerfed people useing turbo controlers wthout braking the gun all together. o well i guess ill put my amarr assault and scrambler rifle back in my locker with the other nerfed useless gear i put SP into for over a year. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer

hfderrtgvcd 661	Posted - 2014.10.06 19:34:00 - [21] - Quote The scrambler rapes face on the bridge map. It also really useful when firing from the pocket into bravo. I don't see why you're complaining tbh. It is still very effective, just more niche. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Her Nibs G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 163	Posted - 2014.10.06 19:54:00 - [22] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: is it possible for CCP to do some data mineing in PC battles because the scrambler rifle i believe was unfairly nerfed off of pub match data. the amarr assault was rarely used in PC before this patch and it has pretty much killed it in competition LvL. Maybe you have lost your touch...because they still KILL. and are still annoying as SH&t OOPS, I'm sorry. Did I just blow up your Python
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1008	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:28:00 - [23] - Quote Scrambler rifles were nerfed? I mean I know I heard talk of it on the forums, but I never noticed any changes in the rifle... What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1676	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:05:00 - [24] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: is it possible for CCP to do some data mineing in PC battles because the scrambler rifle i believe was unfairly nerfed off of pub match data. the amarr assault was rarely used in PC before this patch and it has pretty much killed it in competition LvL. Maybe you have lost your touch...because they still KILL. and are still annoying as SH&t you sound like someone who gets shot by them but does not use the gun to understand what im talking about. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 641	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:23:00 - [25] - Quote I've noticed the visual ads recoil has increased. I could not kill a damn thing with the scrambler... prof 3 for it to almost nothing to even minmatar suits.. I played with it a few days ago and........... I got more kills with my side arm (tt3) than with my viziam. Threw only scr's that I've seen lately are the assault, and that is still garbage. Rip amarr loyalists "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 60	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:51:00 - [26] - Quote not even counting PC battles, looking at just he public ones i see this scouts ~60% heavy hmg ~30% assault / logi ~10% AND breaking it down by weapons HMG ~30% CR / RR ~50% SG / AR ~15% SCR / LR ~5% it just feels very monoculture but to be more specific to the thread topic, it certainly seems to overheat more easily which doesn't help anything considering i can't even run away if it does..
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 245	Posted - 2014.10.07 02:40:00 - [27] - Quote My 2 isk. The gun was fine before any of the nerfs. The problem was that autofire controllers allowed it to put out the highest DPS in the game. Nerfing the RoF was, therefore, a great idea. That would have fixed the gun right there. The heat nerf was a bit of a blow as a non amarr class can't kill before the gun overheats and Amarr's are pushing it right to the limit. No other gun has that severe a limitation. It shouldn't be an 'assist' gun to pad your combat rifle using teammate's KDR. (this also limits your ability to do ANYTHING alone - say watch a backdoor...) So the heat nerf should be undone. Also, I don't understand the hip dispersion nerf. I don't know if the gun was overperforming at close range but it never felt like it did to me (of course -- i never used an autofire controller. Maybe it did for them.) Regardless -- the RoF nerf be the only change. See how it performs then before all this other stuff...
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 384	Posted - 2014.10.07 02:53:00 - [28] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: is it possible for CCP to do some data mineing in PC battles because the scrambler rifle i believe was unfairly nerfed off of pub match data. the amarr assault was rarely used in PC before this patch and it has pretty much killed it in competition LvL. Nobody cares about PC matches. Its all about pubs and using the biggest crutch in the game possible. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 22	Posted - 2014.10.07 12:22:00 - [29] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: It overheats too fast now. The RoF is still fine. The hipfire nerf wasn't necessary I don't think, but I'm not too bent out of shape about that. But the overheat is just terrible now. Amarr Assault now makes it as good as it used to be on non Amarr Assaults, roughly. ScRs can barely dish out 1000 damage before it blows up in the users face now. Killing heavies, commandos, and even assaults is disproportionately hard compared to the other rifles now. Good luck against an armor sentinel. Your gonna need to get the drop on them, and land every shot in their head to kill them. Exactly!! I am skilled to level 5 in both Amaar Assault & Scrambler Rifle, & I can only get like 18 rounds off before the rifle overheats!! I have asked for a fix but Ccp ignores my requests.. Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1682	Posted - 2014.10.08 13:55:00 - [30] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: is it possible for CCP to do some data mineing in PC battles because the scrambler rifle i believe was unfairly nerfed off of pub match data. the amarr assault was rarely used in PC before this patch and it has pretty much killed it in competition LvL. Nobody cares about PC matches. Its all about pubs and using the biggest crutch in the game possible. pub matchs are more about what team has less droolers. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer



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