DUST Search - An overly serious discussion about farts.

Blueprint For Murder wrote:

You guys remember playing rock paper scissors as a kid? Fun and games of course we all had that one friend that would be like rock paper scissors: tornado (tornado beats everything(of course)) and despite the unavoidable folly that would soon follow you would take a moment to try to explain to him how the game works. Well CCP I think you might be that kid or at least you let him run the show. The counter for scouts are other scouts and advanced drop ships counters are other advanced drop ships (if only scouts could fly) yet you guys don't seem to find an issue with it. To many of us this is a game breaking problem while I like playing my scout it lacks any kind of challenge and the other classes are a frustrating mess because most of your players are now primary scout).

This got me thinking about the feedback you receive on the forums and the balance changes you're making they are all pointless. You guys are ignoring the problems instead of balancing the game you are balancing around the issues which can only multiply the problems and require another rounds of balancing once you finally do fix them. I mean you are now balancing weapons off scouts alone because they are the bottom line which leaves any other suit that uses light weaponry wanting, because with out the same capabilities of a scout the weapon can not hope to preform as intended or vise versa.

The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues.

When it comes to advanced drop ships I am at a loss really but something that would be pretty amazing is this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176744&find=unread .

If you guys would like to read more from The Master race check out the links below:

New heavy weapon: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176867&find=unread

Biotics enhancements: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177028

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The Master Race Immortal Guides 79	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:22:00 - [1] - Quote You guys remember playing rock paper scissors as a kid? Fun and games of course we all had that one friend that would be like rock paper scissors: tornado (tornado beats everything(of course)) and despite the unavoidable folly that would soon follow you would take a moment to try to explain to him how the game works. Well CCP I think you might be that kid or at least you let him run the show. The counter for scouts are other scouts and advanced drop ships counters are other advanced drop ships (if only scouts could fly) yet you guys don't seem to find an issue with it. To many of us this is a game breaking problem while I like playing my scout it lacks any kind of challenge and the other classes are a frustrating mess because most of your players are now primary scout). This got me thinking about the feedback you receive on the forums and the balance changes you're making they are all pointless. You guys are ignoring the problems instead of balancing the game you are balancing around the issues which can only multiply the problems and require another rounds of balancing once you finally do fix them. I mean you are now balancing weapons off scouts alone because they are the bottom line which leaves any other suit that uses light weaponry wanting, because with out the same capabilities of a scout the weapon can not hope to preform as intended or vise versa. The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues. When it comes to advanced drop ships I am at a loss really but something that would be pretty amazing is this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176744&find=unread . If you guys would like to read more from The Master race check out the links below: New heavy weapon: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176867&find=unread Biotics enhancements: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177028 New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3544	Posted - 2014.10.06 11:10:00 - [2] - Quote You clearly have never lost your entire fortune to a bad dropship habit. You also clearly haven't flown recently. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 967	Posted - 2014.10.06 11:44:00 - [3] - Quote TL;DR ads are no longer unkillable god-mode slayers of the skys mowing down inv and vehicles alike... cry more now you have descended back into the realm of mortals. ps. i hate when i fart and it feels like fire. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
The Master Race Immortal Guides 80	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:27:00 - [4] - Quote I fly almost every match I also tank it up my tanks die at a pretty good rate, but my ships just fly away and heal. While I do have to leave as soon as I get shot unless there is like 3 avers less with ads I get away. While I cant ignore the first shot nothing else has changed. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1623	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:29:00 - [5] - Quote TL;DR Closed beta vet. Call me TrolLuna or Trollmare Moon, Reference link
The Master Race Immortal Guides 85	Posted - 2014.10.07 03:41:00 - [6] - Quote I changed the name of the thread I don't think I was pulling in the right kind of players with the name "an overly serious discussion about farts" any way lol I hope this will bring in some players that can read. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
gustavo acosta Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 312	Posted - 2014.10.07 03:49:00 - [7] - Quote What weapon was completely based off of scout balance? Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
The Master Race Immortal Guides 85	Posted - 2014.10.07 04:15:00 - [8] - Quote It was a general statement since scouts have the most ability's it makes them a large if not a primary consideration when balancing. Since no other classes can duplicate the type of performance a scout can accomplish there can be no balance. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Riruodo Templar Investigative Commission 317	Posted - 2014.10.07 04:35:00 - [9] - Quote Make scouts look ugly and I'll skill into something else. Right now they're the coolest/ sexiest looking suit and I think for most, that's the initial reason they play a scout. Later on when they find out how good scouts are, they tend to stay and skill into them. But it's all about looks. P.S. Just kidding P.P.S. but not really. Utena Tenjou is my prince in shining armor. - "Tell me what you know about Templar One."
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1008	Posted - 2014.10.07 04:38:00 - [10] - Quote The Master Race wrote: I fly almost every match I also tank it up my tanks die at a pretty good rate, but my ships just fly away and heal. While I do have to leave as soon as I get shot unless there is like 3 avers less if there is a enemy ads I get away. While I cant ignore the first shot nothing else has changed. Edit: Jesus I just looked up tl;dr I now have less hope for the future. ... Hemorrhoids. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?

valad II NoGameNoLife 252	Posted - 2014.10.07 04:40:00 - [11] - Quote You lost me at tornado. Clicking my heels and going back to Kansas.
Vicious Minotaur 1199	Posted - 2014.10.07 05:24:00 - [12] - Quote The Master Race wrote: The counter for scouts are other scouts No. Stop lying. Mass Drivers can easily destroy scouts, especially armour based ones, no matter how much HP they tank. The Burst HMG rips scouts to shreds. Many weapons can counter scouts effectively, regardless of what suit they are on. The Master Race wrote: advanced drop ships counters are other advanced drop ships (if only scouts could fly) My forge gun vehemently disagrees. My swarms kinda disagree as well. Stop lying. The Master Race wrote: The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues. No. Not that it would have a detrimental impact upon me, seeing as how I only run sidarms on my scout suits... but, again, no. If you want to fix scouts, fix them. Don't make some contrived fix to a problem that does not exist. In all of this, there was no mention of the fact that scouts can get their bonus (barring cloak and knives) REGARDLESS of their fitting? Such things allow scouts to stack HP without any eWAR mods and get a hefty eWAR advantage in addition to hefty HP values. Is that not a problem? Or howabout seemingly too high regeneration values, specifically for shields? Anyway, please, leave scouts alone. Pretty please? With the threat of imminent death to nova knives on top? I am a minotaur.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 85	Posted - 2014.10.07 05:37:00 - [13] - Quote The Master Race wrote: The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues. No. Not that it would have a detrimental impact upon me, seeing as how I only run sidarms on my scout suits... but, again, no. If you want to fix scouts, fix them. Don't make some contrived fix to a problem that does not exist. In all of this, there was no mention of the fact that scouts can get their bonus (barring cloak and knives) REGARDLESS of their fitting? Such things allow scouts to stack HP without any eWAR mods and get a hefty eWAR advantage in addition to hefty HP values. Is that not a problem? Or howabout seemingly too high regeneration values, specifically for shields? Anyway, please, leave scouts alone. Pretty please? With the threat of imminent death to nova knives on top? [/quote] While I agree you can alter the ewar of scout suits in order to make them visible. It is a choice of balancing scouts combat ability to fit its skill set or generalizing it stats which would likely make scout completely ineffective in respect to other classes. I would much rather the classes ability remain intact as it is a fun play style, but not at the cost of every other light weapon class. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
CLONE ALPHA 001 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 36	Posted - 2014.10.07 06:13:00 - [14] - Quote op doesn't get that being in/visible is not the only balance metric 1/10
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3761	Posted - 2014.10.07 11:33:00 - [15] - Quote I like tl my character to reflect how light I am in real life. Naturally, I'd go scout since it's the only specialization lights have. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5540	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:10:00 - [16] - Quote The Master Race wrote: The fallacy of balancing Dust in its current state. How might we balance non-current states of Dust? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 469	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:50:00 - [17] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The Master Race wrote: The fallacy of balancing Dust in its current state. How might we balance non-current states of Dust? Pixie Dust Troll Farts FoTM Tears Mari-juana
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3433	Posted - 2014.10.07 14:03:00 - [18] - Quote Meanwhile I'll be over here playing rock-paper-shotgun.
Dreis Shadowweaver Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 259	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:04:00 - [19] - Quote I agree, Scouts shouldn't have a Light Weapon slot. Join the 'Nova Knifers United' channel I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2157	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:21:00 - [20] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: TL;DR ads are no longer unkillable god-mode slayers of the skys mowing down inv and vehicles alike... cry more now you have descended back into the realm of mortals. ps. i hate when i fart and it feels like fire. If you thought they were unkillable before, you were probably doing it wrong. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1934	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:32:00 - [21] - Quote The problem with the OP's claim that removing scouts light weapon slots in favor of side-arm slots is that the weapons aren't the problem. As another poster stated the reason scouts are so powerful is their massive ewar advantage, an advantage they don't have to sacrifice too much to run pretty large HP tanks (I made a 600hp adv. cal scout to test this). Ideas proposed in other threads such: making the scouts skills bonuses to specific modules, dramatically altering ewar so all frame can scan scouts but those scan ranges decrease over distance, and even simply making other classes more ewar viable would all have more dramatic and meaningful effects than making scouts only use side arms. Now with more evil.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 88	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:33:00 - [22] - Quote What is going over your head is that if scouts were side arm only they could be balanced separately. If you remove a scouts ewar you destroy what makes a scout. Even if a proper ewar balance could be found you can't curve the offensive capability without effecting every other class. I have written this same thing 3 or 4 different ways if it is still not understood it will not be. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 353	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:33:00 - [23] - Quote ... The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 89	Posted - 2014.10.08 06:42:00 - [24] - Quote The tanked scouts may be the biggest issue in your eyes and maybe even the lead in consideration for everyone at this moment, but it doesn't address their combat advantages this is what I was talking about when I said "balancing around the issue"; if you were facing a assault with 600hp it would not be a problem at all. right? There is no one advantage that makes scouts preform with such efficiency there are hit boxes, hit detection, speed, ewar, ehp, cloak field, and linked combat ability; all of which are required for the class to preform as it does except for the combat ability which as most scouts can tell you as many of us play side arm only. Now ccp could try to address each issue individually or they could make scouts side arm only removing the current balance limitations while maintaining the current play style. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 353	Posted - 2014.10.08 06:42:00 - [25] - Quote The tanked scouts may be the biggest issue in your eyes and maybe even the lead in consideration for everyone at this moment, but it doesn't address their combat advantages this is what I was talking about when I said "balancing around the issue"; if you were facing a assault with 600hp it would not be a problem at all. right? There is no one advantage that makes scouts preform with such efficiency there are hit boxes, hit detection, speed, ewar, ehp, cloak field, and linked combat ability; all of which are required for the class to preform as it does except for the combat ability which as most scouts can tell you as many of us play side arm only. Now ccp could try to address each issue individually or they could make scouts side arm only removing the current balance limitations while maintaining the current play style. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 347	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:22:00 - [26] - Quote This thread is a little out dated now but with the further changes meant to primarily effect the scout classes I thought I should give it a bump. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 353	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:22:00 - [27] - Quote This thread is a little out dated, but now that we have experienced the cloak changes and with the further changes planed meant to primarily effect the scout classes I thought I should give it a bump. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 399	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:27:00 - [28] - Quote Scout can either equipt 1 light wep Or Equipt 2 sidearms Problems solved
Repe Susi Rautaleijona 1512	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:31:00 - [29] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: TL;DR ads are no longer unkillable god-mode slayers of the skys mowing down inv and vehicles alike... cry more now you have descended back into the realm of mortals. ps. i hate when i fart and it feels like fire. If you thought they were unkillable before, you were probably doing it wrong. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
Kodho Hidden Suppression 64	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:00:00 - [30] - Quote Getting rid of the light weapon slot would kill my character. I'm a sniper and run a scout suit. I do this so I can move quickly from location to location all the while maintaining a very low profile. I do not run cloak. I would be forced to run a logi suit if the scout is taken away from me. If my suit is taken, give me my sniper rifle range back so I can get back into the redline. We did not have these issues before the cloak. Long Live the Scout! Kodho

Mejt0 Hollywood Undead. 519	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:18:00 - [31] - Quote The simpliest solution would be to make bonuses apply to modules. Then they (tanked) would be easy to scan. Making scouts sidearm only is just bad and boring. Ps. OP. You're running solo or in group? Cuz solo running enemy < scout. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 353	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:22:00 - [32] - Quote Kodho wrote: Getting rid of the light weapon slot would kill my character. I'm a sniper and run a scout suit. I do this so I can move quickly from location to location all the while maintaining a very low profile. I do not run cloak. I would be forced to run a logi suit if the scout is taken away from me. If my suit is taken, give me my sniper rifle range back so I can get back into the redline. We did not have these issues before the cloak. You would be able to run sniper on a light frame it would remain the same.. I do understand how poor the other classes act in many situations because of the poor jump. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 355	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:22:00 - [33] - Quote Kodho wrote: Getting rid of the light weapon slot would kill my character. I'm a sniper and run a scout suit. I do this so I can move quickly from location to location all the while maintaining a very low profile. I do not run cloak. I would be forced to run a logi suit if the scout is taken away from me. If my suit is taken, give me my sniper rifle range back so I can get back into the redline. We did not have these issues before the cloak. You would be able to run sniper on a light frame it would remain the same.. I do understand how poor the other classes act in many situations because of the poor jump. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Kodho Hidden Suppression 64	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:28:00 - [34] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Kodho wrote: Getting rid of the light weapon slot would kill my character. I'm a sniper and run a scout suit. I do this so I can move quickly from location to location all the while maintaining a very low profile. I do not run cloak. I would be forced to run a logi suit if the scout is taken away from me. If my suit is taken, give me my sniper rifle range back so I can get back into the redline. We did not have these issues before the cloak. You would be able to run sniper on a light frame it would remain the same.. I do understand how poor the other classes act in many situations because of the poor jump. According to the recommendation from the op, light weapon slot would be removed and replaced with an additional sidearm slot. Sniper rifles are light weapons. Therefore, he ability to use them on a scout suit would be eliminated. Am I missing something? Long Live the Scout! Kodho
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 355	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:31:00 - [35] - Quote No, you are correct, but you would be able to use them on a light suit and still gain most of its benefits. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 361	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:31:00 - [36] - Quote No, you are correct, but you would be able to use them on a light suit and still gain most of its benefits. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Kodho Hidden Suppression 64	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:32:00 - [37] - Quote Ah, I get what you are saying now. I'll have to look up the stats on a proto light frame. Long Live the Scout! Kodho
Mejt0 Hollywood Undead. 519	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:34:00 - [38] - Quote Kodho wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Kodho wrote: Getting rid of the light weapon slot would kill my character. I'm a sniper and run a scout suit. I do this so I can move quickly from location to location all the while maintaining a very low profile. I do not run cloak. I would be forced to run a logi suit if the scout is taken away from me. If my suit is taken, give me my sniper rifle range back so I can get back into the redline. We did not have these issues before the cloak. You would be able to run sniper on a light frame it would remain the same.. I do understand how poor the other classes act in many situations because of the poor jump. According to the recommendation from the op, light weapon slot would be removed and replaced with an additional sidearm slot. Sniper rifles are light weapons. Therefore, he ability to use them on a scout suit would be eliminated. Am I missing something? Scout is a specialized suit. Light frame = basic light frame, not scout. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 355	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:34:00 - [39] - Quote It has a lower cpu/pg since it is not fitted for the cloak. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 361	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:34:00 - [40] - Quote It has a lower cpu/pg since it is not fitted for the cloak. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc

The Master Race Immortal Guides 361	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:42:00 - [41] - Quote GöêGöêGöÅGöüGò«Gò¡GöüGöôGöêGò¡GöüGöüGöüGöüGò« GöêGöêGöâGöÅGöùGö¢GöôGöâGò¡Gö½GôPGôÿGô¥GôÜGöâ GöêGöêGò¦GöôGûïGûïGöÅGò»Gò»Gò¦GöüGöüGöüGöüGò» GöêGò¡GöüGö+Gò«Gò¦GöùGöüGöüGöüGöüGò«Gò¡Gò«Göê GöêGöâGûÄGûÄGöâGò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦GöúGöüGò»Göê GöêGò¦GöüGö¦Gö+GûàGò»Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦GöâGöêGöêGöê GöêGöêGöêGò¦GöüGö¦GöôGöÅGö¦GöôGöÅGò»GöêGöêGöê GöêGöêGöêGöêGöêGöùGö+Gö¢GöùGö+Gö¢GöêGöêGöêGöê The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 369	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:42:00 - [42] - Quote GöêGöêGöÅGöüGò«Gò¡GöüGöôGöêGò¡GöüGöüGöüGöüGò« GöêGöêGöâGöÅGöùGö¢GöôGöâGò¡Gö½GôPGôÿGô¥GôÜGöâ GöêGöêGò¦GöôGûïGûïGöÅGò»Gò»Gò¦GöüGöüGöüGöüGò» GöêGò¡GöüGö+Gò«Gò¦GöùGöüGöüGöüGöüGò«Gò¡Gò«Göê GöêGöâGûÄGûÄGöâGò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦GöúGöüGò»Göê GöêGò¦GöüGö¦Gö+GûàGò»Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦Gò¦GöâGöêGöêGöê GöêGöêGöêGò¦GöüGö¦GöôGöÅGö¦GöôGöÅGò»GöêGöêGöê GöêGöêGöêGöêGöêGöùGö+Gö¢GöùGö+Gö¢GöêGöêGöêGöê The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Myron Kundera The Generals 107	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:52:00 - [43] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: You guys remember playing rock paper scissors as a kid? Fun and games of course we all had that one friend that would be like rock paper scissors: tornado (tornado beats everything(of course)) and despite the unavoidable folly that would soon follow you would take a moment to try to explain to him how the game works. Well CCP I think you might be that kid or at least you let him run the show. The counter for scouts are other scouts and advanced drop ships counters are other advanced drop ships (if only scouts could fly) yet you guys don't seem to find an issue with it. To many of us this is a game breaking problem while I like playing my scout it lacks any kind of challenge and the other classes are a frustrating mess because most of your players are now primary scout). This got me thinking about the feedback you receive on the forums and the balance changes you're making they are all pointless. You guys are ignoring the problems instead of balancing the game you are balancing around the issues which can only multiply the problems and require another rounds of balancing once you finally do fix them. I mean you are now balancing weapons off scouts alone because they are the bottom line which leaves any other suit that uses light weaponry wanting, because with out the same capabilities of a scout the weapon can not hope to preform as intended or vise versa. The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues. When it comes to advanced drop ships I am at a loss really but something that would be pretty amazing is this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176744&find=unread . If you guys would like to read more from The Master race check out the links below: New heavy weapon: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176867&find=unread Biotics enhancements: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177028 Scouts should keep the Light weapon slot, but definetively lose the sidearm. I have no problems with DS, i just shoot swarms to them and they die or run, which works fine for me. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 369	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:24:00 - [44] - Quote You should really read the threads you post in before you post. Yea this is an old thread from when ads were gods and if you read it you will see why scouts can not be balanced with a light weapon. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc


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