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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
79
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Posted - 2014.10.06 08:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
You guys remember playing rock paper scissors as a kid? Fun and games of course we all had that one friend that would be like rock paper scissors: tornado (tornado beats everything(of course)) and despite the unavoidable folly that would soon follow you would take a moment to try to explain to him how the game works. Well CCP I think you might be that kid or at least you let him run the show. The counter for scouts are other scouts and advanced drop ships counters are other advanced drop ships (if only scouts could fly) yet you guys don't seem to find an issue with it. To many of us this is a game breaking problem while I like playing my scout it lacks any kind of challenge and the other classes are a frustrating mess because most of your players are now primary scout).
This got me thinking about the feedback you receive on the forums and the balance changes you're making they are all pointless. You guys are ignoring the problems instead of balancing the game you are balancing around the issues which can only multiply the problems and require another rounds of balancing once you finally do fix them. I mean you are now balancing weapons off scouts alone because they are the bottom line which leaves any other suit that uses light weaponry wanting, because with out the same capabilities of a scout the weapon can not hope to preform as intended or vise versa.
The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues.
When it comes to advanced drop ships I am at a loss really but something that would be pretty amazing is this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176744&find=unread .
If you guys would like to read more from The Master race check out the links below:
New heavy weapon: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176867&find=unread
Biotics enhancements: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177028
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3544
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Posted - 2014.10.06 11:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
You clearly have never lost your entire fortune to a bad dropship habit.
You also clearly haven't flown recently.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
967
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Posted - 2014.10.06 11:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
TL;DR
ads are no longer unkillable god-mode slayers of the skys mowing down inv and vehicles alike... cry more now you have descended back into the realm of mortals.
ps. i hate when i fart and it feels like fire.
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 2 Forum Pariah
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
80
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
I fly almost every match I also tank it up my tanks die at a pretty good rate, but my ships just fly away and heal. While I do have to leave as soon as I get shot unless there is like 3 avers less with ads I get away. While I cant ignore the first shot nothing else has changed.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1623
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
TL;DR
Closed beta vet.
Call me TrolLuna or Trollmare Moon, Reference link
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
85
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Posted - 2014.10.07 03:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
I changed the name of the thread I don't think I was pulling in the right kind of players with the name "an overly serious discussion about farts" any way lol I hope this will bring in some players that can read.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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gustavo acosta
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
312
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Posted - 2014.10.07 03:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
What weapon was completely based off of scout balance?
Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault
Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
85
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Posted - 2014.10.07 04:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
It was a general statement since scouts have the most ability's it makes them a large if not a primary consideration when balancing. Since no other classes can duplicate the type of performance a scout can accomplish there can be no balance.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Riruodo
Templar Investigative Commission
317
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Posted - 2014.10.07 04:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Make scouts look ugly and I'll skill into something else. Right now they're the coolest/ sexiest looking suit and I think for most, that's the initial reason they play a scout.
Later on when they find out how good scouts are, they tend to stay and skill into them.
But it's all about looks.
P.S. Just kidding
P.P.S. but not really.
Utena Tenjou is my prince in shining armor.
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"Tell me what you know about Templar One."
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1008
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Posted - 2014.10.07 04:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Master Race wrote:I fly almost every match I also tank it up my tanks die at a pretty good rate, but my ships just fly away and heal. While I do have to leave as soon as I get shot unless there is like 3 avers less if there is a enemy ads I get away. While I cant ignore the first shot nothing else has changed.
Edit: Jesus I just looked up tl;dr I now have less hope for the future. ... Hemorrhoids. 
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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valad II
NoGameNoLife
252
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Posted - 2014.10.07 04:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
You lost me at tornado. Clicking my heels and going back to Kansas. |
Vicious Minotaur
1199
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Posted - 2014.10.07 05:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Master Race wrote:The counter for scouts are other scouts
No. Stop lying. Mass Drivers can easily destroy scouts, especially armour based ones, no matter how much HP they tank. The Burst HMG rips scouts to shreds. Many weapons can counter scouts effectively, regardless of what suit they are on.
The Master Race wrote:advanced drop ships counters are other advanced drop ships (if only scouts could fly)
My forge gun vehemently disagrees. My swarms kinda disagree as well. Stop lying.
The Master Race wrote:
The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues.
No. Not that it would have a detrimental impact upon me, seeing as how I only run sidarms on my scout suits... but, again, no. If you want to fix scouts, fix them. Don't make some contrived fix to a problem that does not exist.
In all of this, there was no mention of the fact that scouts can get their bonus (barring cloak and knives) REGARDLESS of their fitting? Such things allow scouts to stack HP without any eWAR mods and get a hefty eWAR advantage in addition to hefty HP values. Is that not a problem? Or howabout seemingly too high regeneration values, specifically for shields?
Anyway, please, leave scouts alone. Pretty please? With the threat of imminent death to nova knives on top?
I am a minotaur.
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
85
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Posted - 2014.10.07 05:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
The Master Race wrote:
The only way to fix this issue is to make scouts side arms only so that each suit can be balanced properly and isolating any issues.
No. Not that it would have a detrimental impact upon me, seeing as how I only run sidarms on my scout suits... but, again, no. If you want to fix scouts, fix them. Don't make some contrived fix to a problem that does not exist.
In all of this, there was no mention of the fact that scouts can get their bonus (barring cloak and knives) REGARDLESS of their fitting? Such things allow scouts to stack HP without any eWAR mods and get a hefty eWAR advantage in addition to hefty HP values. Is that not a problem? Or howabout seemingly too high regeneration values, specifically for shields?
Anyway, please, leave scouts alone. Pretty please? With the threat of imminent death to nova knives on top?
[/quote]
While I agree you can alter the ewar of scout suits in order to make them visible. It is a choice of balancing scouts combat ability to fit its skill set or generalizing it stats which would likely make scout completely ineffective in respect to other classes. I would much rather the classes ability remain intact as it is a fun play style, but not at the cost of every other light weapon class.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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CLONE ALPHA 001
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
36
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Posted - 2014.10.07 06:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
op doesn't get that being in/visible is not the only balance metric 1/10 |
Joel II X
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3761
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Posted - 2014.10.07 11:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
I like tl my character to reflect how light I am in real life. Naturally, I'd go scout since it's the only specialization lights have.
Don't hate the player, hate the game. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5540
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Posted - 2014.10.07 13:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Master Race wrote:The fallacy of balancing Dust in its current state.
How might we balance non-current states of Dust?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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RayRay James
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
469
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Posted - 2014.10.07 13:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:The Master Race wrote:The fallacy of balancing Dust in its current state. How might we balance non-current states of Dust?
Pixie Dust
Troll Farts
FoTM Tears
Mari-juana |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3433
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Posted - 2014.10.07 14:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Meanwhile I'll be over here playing rock-paper-shotgun. |
Dreis Shadowweaver
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2014.10.07 16:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
I agree, Scouts shouldn't have a Light Weapon slot.
Join the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
I've only ever known 1.8...
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2157
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Posted - 2014.10.07 16:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:TL;DR
ads are no longer unkillable god-mode slayers of the skys mowing down inv and vehicles alike... cry more now you have descended back into the realm of mortals.
ps. i hate when i fart and it feels like fire.
If you thought they were unkillable before, you were probably doing it wrong.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1934
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Posted - 2014.10.07 16:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
The problem with the OP's claim that removing scouts light weapon slots in favor of side-arm slots is that the weapons aren't the problem. As another poster stated the reason scouts are so powerful is their massive ewar advantage, an advantage they don't have to sacrifice too much to run pretty large HP tanks (I made a 600hp adv. cal scout to test this).
Ideas proposed in other threads such: making the scouts skills bonuses to specific modules, dramatically altering ewar so all frame can scan scouts but those scan ranges decrease over distance, and even simply making other classes more ewar viable would all have more dramatic and meaningful effects than making scouts only use side arms.
Now with more evil.
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
88
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Posted - 2014.10.07 17:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
What is going over your head is that if scouts were side arm only they could be balanced separately. If you remove a scouts ewar you destroy what makes a scout. Even if a proper ewar balance could be found you can't curve the offensive capability without effecting every other class. I have written this same thing 3 or 4 different ways if it is still not understood it will not be.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
353
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Posted - 2014.10.07 17:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
...
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
89
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Posted - 2014.10.08 06:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
The tanked scouts may be the biggest issue in your eyes and maybe even the lead in consideration for everyone at this moment, but it doesn't address their combat advantages this is what I was talking about when I said "balancing around the issue"; if you were facing a assault with 600hp it would not be a problem at all. right?
There is no one advantage that makes scouts preform with such efficiency there are hit boxes, hit detection, speed, ewar, ehp, cloak field, and linked combat ability; all of which are required for the class to preform as it does except for the combat ability which as most scouts can tell you as many of us play side arm only.
Now ccp could try to address each issue individually or they could make scouts side arm only removing the current balance limitations while maintaining the current play style.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
353
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Posted - 2014.10.08 06:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
The tanked scouts may be the biggest issue in your eyes and maybe even the lead in consideration for everyone at this moment, but it doesn't address their combat advantages this is what I was talking about when I said "balancing around the issue"; if you were facing a assault with 600hp it would not be a problem at all. right?
There is no one advantage that makes scouts preform with such efficiency there are hit boxes, hit detection, speed, ewar, ehp, cloak field, and linked combat ability; all of which are required for the class to preform as it does except for the combat ability which as most scouts can tell you as many of us play side arm only.
Now ccp could try to address each issue individually or they could make scouts side arm only removing the current balance limitations while maintaining the current play style.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
347
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Posted - 2014.11.20 09:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
This thread is a little out dated now but with the further changes meant to primarily effect the scout classes I thought I should give it a bump.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
353
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Posted - 2014.11.20 09:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
This thread is a little out dated, but now that we have experienced the cloak changes and with the further changes planed meant to primarily effect the scout classes I thought I should give it a bump.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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hold that
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
399
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Posted - 2014.11.20 11:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Scout can either equipt 1 light wep
Or
Equipt 2 sidearms
Problems solved |
Repe Susi
Rautaleijona
1512
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Posted - 2014.11.20 11:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:TL;DR
ads are no longer unkillable god-mode slayers of the skys mowing down inv and vehicles alike... cry more now you have descended back into the realm of mortals.
ps. i hate when i fart and it feels like fire. If you thought they were unkillable before, you were probably doing it wrong.
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
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Kodho
Hidden Suppression
64
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Posted - 2014.11.20 13:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Getting rid of the light weapon slot would kill my character. I'm a sniper and run a scout suit. I do this so I can move quickly from location to location all the while maintaining a very low profile. I do not run cloak. I would be forced to run a logi suit if the scout is taken away from me. If my suit is taken, give me my sniper rifle range back so I can get back into the redline.
We did not have these issues before the cloak.
Long Live the Scout!
Kodho
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