So, for your cal logi, would you be willing to sacrifice the ability to get indoors or into tight spaces or high ground? Would you give up the ability to hack anything? Would you give up the ability to use almost anything as cover? Would you give up the ability to place and use equipment? Would you give up the small(ish) hitbox and agility? Would you give up your immense infantry killing power?
If in return you would get higher movement speed and pretty much immunity to most small arms.

I sure as hell would not be willing to make that sacrifice for my infantry characters. And I sure as hell wouldn't be making that sacrifice for my vehicle character (this) either if I could get my SP back from vehicles.

If you'd actually read a bit further into this topic you wouldn't have to ask why.
And no, nothing else.

So, for your cal logi, would you be willing to sacrifice the ability to get indoors or into tight spaces or high ground? Would you give up the ability to hack anything? Would you give up the ability to use almost anything as cover? Would you give up the ability to place and use equipment? Would you give up the small(ish) hitbox and agility? Would you give up your immense infantry killing power?
If in return you would get higher movement speed and pretty much immunity to most small arms.

I sure as hell would not be willing to make that sacrifice for my infantry characters. And I sure as hell wouldn't be making that sacrifice for my vehicle character (this) either if I could get my SP back from vehicles.

*points to Domination and Skirmish gamemodes*

See I love how you generalize the Team Deathmatch mode gameplay into "Call of Duty mode". Battlefield 3 has Team Deathmatch and most of the maps are small and have non-existent vehicles (of course, this may not be the case, but from what I remember, they don't). You will only find vehicles in large maps and game modes such as Rush (Dust equivalent: Skirmish 1.0) or Conquest (Dust equivalent: Skirmish). I can't speak for the other Battlefield games so I'll let Battlefield vets back me up or correct me on this.

Other first person shooters I've played were Unreal Tournament and Tribes. Unreal Tournament had great Team Deathmatch gameplay and lightning fast duels. However, it never had vehicles. Tribes on the other hand, had great gameplay (I'm proud to be a vet and wish I still owned copies; got lost due to hard drive failures and computer upgrades). I think they might have had Team Deathmatch, but again, didn't have a way to call in your vehicles (needed a vehicle pad). Objective based gameplay, the biggest in Tribes was CTF, had vehicle pads, generators, and a host of things to do to try and take their flag.

Oh and let's not forget about other games like Quake or Doom, one which I didn't play and the other I only played a demo respectively.

Compare to something I remember in Call of Duty: Black Ops 1. I remember seeing a theater clip of someone going something like 54-3. He got his killstreak, hid behind something and called it out. I then remember his team and specific places that they didn't move from as he would then proceed to get kill after kill as the enemy spawned. His team had spawn trapped the enemy and, having his team using specific positions, meta-gamed the computer into thinking the enemy could only be spawned in a certain small area.

Compare it to a match I had a while back in Dust in Ambush OMS. We deploy close to the enemy, they call in a tank, infantry quickly scan, flank and crush our team. I manage to get a single kill before I die. As my team gets wiped out, we have no uplinks and we spawn looking down the barrel of a tank, HMG, shotgun, or some assault rifle. I lead the team in deaths using my starter fits (so nothing of worth was lost; no, I don't care about KDR), and get my free 100,000 ISK for essentially being a pinata.

(wow. didn't expect to write all this)

Anyways, you argue "Call of Duty mode" is when we remove vehicles from Ambush. My point is that "Call of Duty mode" is what we already have in our Team Deathmatch variant. Removing vehicles from Ambush would put the game mode on par with games like Quake, Doom, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, and Battlefield.

Guess what, if you are in a tank you don't give up any of that because you are wearing a dropsuit and you can pop in and out of your tank. If your tank takes too much damage or you are just getting owned by AV you can pop out and kill them, taking damage in your dropsuit and you just pop back into your tank.

My proto Logi suit is costing more than what some of these pilots are flying, has way more SP investments, while being the easiest thing to kill in the game outside of scouts without cloaks. Don't give me that sacrifice bullshit, you are always outrunning what is suppose to be your secondary counter in the game, and have a high chance to flee from your only counter when in danger.

I don't want ships to be nerfed to the ground, but their has to be balance here.

Solo player can't solo 1 man vehicles.

Goes to the forums and criesmakes logical complaints about it and the imbalance it creates

Succeeds because the developers don't carecare alot about balance and player experience

Game diesGame Thrives on a balanced nirvana

Aver fires swarms at tank
Tank pulls forwards, backwards or round a corner
The new lower turn angle swarms pile into wall/floor/random terrain
Tank chuckles quitely to self knowing dodging swarms is now EVEN EASIER.

Tell me, how are tanks flying? How much is your proto logi suit? Mine is 265k or something like that, it's not even half of what I have to pay for my vehicle (dropsuit not included). My logi has invested around 17 million and has maxed out everything needed and more. My vehicle pilot has invested 30 million into vehicles and still hasn't got all that is needed. Logis are the easiest ones to kill outside of scouts without cloaks? You just named 2 of the hardest things to kill in the game. Outrunning? Tell me, what is supposed to be the secondary counter to tanks? And what is the only counter to tanks? How can I flee from that only counter with high chance? Tell me, clearly I've not tanked enough yet.

Easier? What's easy about the current invisible swarms or swarms going around/through the terrain? lol bout time they fix that bs.

Logistics: 25Mil SP
HAV: 22Mil SP

BUSTED, AGAIN!

Through terrain? I'm sorry but I've still yet to see that in all my time Swarm Launching/ADSing.
If they appear like they are going through terrain it's most likely a server discrepancy, my swarms will some times randomly explode on terrain that isn't their.

As for invisble, I'd love to see the last of thdm too. But they won't magically improve their tracking.

So, for your cal logi, would you be willing to sacrifice the ability to get indoors or into tight spaces or high ground? Would you give up the ability to hack anything? Would you give up the ability to use almost anything as cover? Would you give up the ability to place and use equipment? Would you give up the small(ish) hitbox and agility? Would you give up your immense infantry killing power?
If in return you would get higher movement speed and pretty much immunity to most small arms.

I sure as hell would not be willing to make that sacrifice for my infantry characters. And I sure as hell wouldn't be making that sacrifice for my vehicle character (this) either if I could get my SP back from vehicles.

Pilot gets out of tank/ dropship... Nullifying 90% of yo tears. Immense infantry killing power lol.

And how is what I said busted? Investing 25 mil into logistics just shows that you can invest into skills you don't need.
And investing 22 mil into vehicles means that you are not even nearly done.

My logi is done with 17 mil SP and I don't see anything I could possibly still need or want for that character in that role so I'm moving on.
My vehicle character still needs 10M+ more SP to somewhat max out what I need.

Logistics
1 light weapon maxed, Armour Maxed, Shields Maxed, Electronics + Engineering, Hives, Rep Tools, Injectors, Scanners
Not Included: Biotic Upgrades, Scanning Upgrades, Explosives, Sidearm, Cloak Field, Systems Hacking, Weapon Damage Modifiers

HAV
1 Large Turret maxed, ALL Vehicle Upgrades Maxed, Hull Maxed
Not Included: Small Turret

What exactly from the Logistics List is Non essential?

I can't possibly understand how you come up with 22 mil SP for what you said. I even tried protofits to see what happens and I couldn't get past 17 mil.
For HAV with 1 large turret it said 20.2 mil and protofits doesn't even have all the skills there that are ingame. And you know damn well that if you only go for 1 large turret you might aswell sit half the matches or be next to useless.

And how is what I said busted? Investing 25 mil into logistics just shows that you can invest into skills you don't need.
And investing 22 mil into vehicles means that you are not even nearly done.

My logi is done with 17 mil SP and I don't see anything I could possibly still need or want for that character in that role so I'm moving on.
My vehicle character still needs 10M+ more SP to somewhat max out what I need.

This is the same disingenuous bs pilots always trot out. "This is all *I* see that is needed for a role, therefore your argument about the costs of your fits vs. The costs of my fits are invalid." I have 4 infantry alts and I'm just saying what I've experienced with them, I'm just saying that to max out what is absolutely needed takes more SP for vehicleers than it takes for infantry. And for infantry almost every skill they have to put points into give some sort of bonuses, where as for vehicles most of the absolutely needed skills only unlock stuff and that's it. You can invest alot more heavily into infantry just because they have more "extra" skills than vehicles do. By extra skills I mean skills that are not needed to max out your fit but are still great and helpful to have.

For every goddamn skill a tank driver dumps points into there is a skill equivalency for infantry that is needed for equal viability. Not exactly, infantry gets the same or equivalent bonuses and more with less SP investment. We have to skill into SP sinks first, skills that do absolutely nothing other than unlocking the next thing to get the simple bonuses that infantry get early on. And after that infantry can go ahead and spend even more SP for even more bonuses, because vehicles don't have any skills that are equivalent to those extra bonuses.
And if you want to talk about equality, then keep in mind that you should not go past STD dropsuits as infantry, because HAV pilots get no ADV or PRO hulls.

This argument is no different than a dipwad saying its unfair that an AVer only needs to spend the SP to get an adv. Swarm to fight his dropship. I have no idea what this is about...

25 mil SP tank may not be done with his SP dump, but its enough to have at least one fitting sufficiently fixed and rigged up. Kinda how I have at least 25 milion SP punched into skills directly relevant to killing and surviving vehicles and their infantry escorts. You are right, but vehicles are much more rock-paper-scissors than infantry is, you can pretty much kill any infantry with any infantry weapon, it's just easier or harder depending on what you and your enemy are using. When it comes to vehicles, some fits are made to completely counter other fits, so if I only have one kind of fit, I might be completely negated from the battle unless I have something that can counter that counter. Infantry has nothing that makes something else completely obsolete.

Seriously most of you die because you are pushed out away from your blue dots. Seriously, I mostly die if I try to stick with blueberries because they will completely ignore the enemy AV and just walk away from me. For vehicles movement = life and immobility = death.

Tanks alone means 200 WP for me. For me they mean 300 WP + 50WP for every guy inside the tank, I dunno what game you are playing.

No matter how much I love flying my ADS. I've always felt that it keeps messing with AV vs Vehicles balance.
In my opinioned they should have stayed out from the game when 1.7 arrived.

Tanks only give 150 wp + 50 per person. 200 assumes tank + driver.

If youre getting 300 for the hull you aint playi g DUST.

Unless you are two shotting them. In which case two damaging hits would be another 150.


If you are two shotting all of them youre either a genius for hitting their weakspot every time without fail or you're killing incompetent tankers.

And the sp sinks are utter crap. I have a tank alt so you will never hear me argue in favor of that crap.I want chromo vehicles back. More choices, less useless sinks, marauders were a thing and they were hard to solo but not impossible.


Right now the fitting choices on HAVs are utter crap.

But dont ever use the SP invested in AV suits vs. Tanks with me. You may do so when my weapon for killing.tanks becomes efficient vs infantry, my suit ignores all but three weapons and I have 6000 HP plus.a hardener.