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Scouts need another weakness besides HP.

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Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 54	Posted - 2014.09.07 20:21:00 - [1] - Quote And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.09.07 20:37:00 - [2] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3865	Posted - 2014.09.07 20:40:00 - [3] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me Scouts are also weak to sustained fire. Heck, most scouts don't have the HP to be dead before the fire can go on long enough to be called sustained... Not to mention, you don't even NEED Alpha damage to kill a scout. I get killed by std SRs for Pete's sake. STANDARD!!! Scouts die to being outnumbered A LOT. Also very convenient for you to leave that off your list. In fact, that is the best way to get them, because then it is more obvious. You can't kill someone after being cloaked or from a hiding spot in the middle of a bunch of reds without being killed immediately after a kill, sometimes before. Being outranged is also something that kills scouts. Don't think so? Just use a CR when you see a shotgun scout, and back up while they are outside 10 m and see who dies first. They are also using a CR you say? Well unless you are also using a scout suit, you should have more HP. So the only reason someone would lose at range is if you are using a CQC weapon like an HMG or a shotgun, which is working as intended. By reading your list, you seam to be a heavy, and merely trying to make your suit seem weak. I am honestly quite tired of your lack of reason and completely biased nonsense. Please stop wasting everyone's time until you are ready to have reasoned discussions and not simply present biased ideas masquerading as something legitimate. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3522	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:25:00 - [4] - Quote Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Hakyou Brutor Pure Evil. 1295	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:39:00 - [5] - Quote You're so ridiculously wrong it's not even funny. Read over your list again... you're saying scouts aren't weak to heavies, being outnumbered, being outranged (shotgun scout), heavies, basically anyone with eyes, heavies, or heavies? git gud scrub
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3872	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:40:00 - [6] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4366	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:42:00 - [7] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me TL;DR You are weak? Okay Thanks KRRROOOOOOM
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 56	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:43:00 - [8] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Not to mention, you don't even NEED Alpha damage to kill a scout. I get killed by std SRs for Pete's sake. STANDARD!!! lol, sniper rifles ARE alpha damage weapons. hence why their DPS is low and they take a while to kill heavies, but can one-shot scouts. Even if I added the 3 things you mentioned, that still only makes 5 things scouts are weak to. The others still have more weaknesses. The reason I didn't include them is because scouts have the easiest time with those things. They can run and hide, not to mention regen from, those things the most effectively, as I stated in the OP. And splash damage still counts as alpha damage, as does fall damage.
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 393	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:45:00 - [9] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. yeah i dont understand why mlt shotguns are so powerful. Why?
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 294	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:47:00 - [10] - Quote Scouts are subject to ewar as well, just at different levels depending on race. Burning through clones like Rusty Venture.

Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 56	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:49:00 - [11] - Quote 2Berries wrote: Scouts are subject to ewar as well, just at different levels depending on race. that falls under the "other scout" category and i also stated this was not based on race
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:51:00 - [12] - Quote You do realize that almost everything can kill almost everything? "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 394	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:52:00 - [13] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me im sordy that your bad at what you do but just because you veiw scouts as "op" doesn't mean everyone else does. From what i can tell you are a heavy , and not a very good one, because ive never seen any other heavy post something this blasphamous since the cloak was nerfed. Its a sandbox bro i think heavies are the second most op thing right now ,besides the rr, but you dont see me making "heavies are op" threads do you. Get good and stop bitching. I just spoke for everyone reading this thread with 3 different answers and i have yet to see you explain your reasoning. Why?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9260	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:53:00 - [14] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. 1. You don't need alpha damage to kill a scout. Just stare at them and the heat generated from the glare of your face will cripple them. 2. DUH! Of course suits with more HP will kill them. Scout can't outlast a medium suit in a face-to-face combat situation. 3. In some cases? Try all cases especially if you're Minmatar with no EWAR bonus to help you hide or avoid against EWAR scouts which appear to be more common than the Minmatar scouts. You're also leaving out the fact that scouts are allergic to squads. This is why the vast majority of my victims are usually stragglers roaming around on their own without any backup. I've even seen some heavies do this which is stupid. If you're fat and slow, stick with the group or have a logi or EWAR scout as a buddy to look out for you. Don't be like this guy. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:54:00 - [15] - Quote on the scouts being weak to being outnumbered argument cloaks and REs are all you need
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9260	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:56:00 - [16] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: on the scouts being weak to being outnumbered argument cloaks and REs are all you need Are you even a scout? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:57:00 - [17] - Quote there i put another bullet on the list for you scouts situations in which you cannot run or hide
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:59:00 - [18] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: there i put another bullet on the list for you scouts situations in which you cannot run or hide before someone looks at you too hard I fixed it for you. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:00:00 - [19] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: i have yet to see you explain your reasoning. scouts have the best speed and recovery. which gives them the advantage against sustained fire and being outnumbered. did you notice i did not put being outnumbered on heavies either? that's because they excel at crowd control.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3874	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:01:00 - [20] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. yeah i dont understand why mlt shotguns are so powerful. SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. You can always tell a Millford Minja

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3874	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:02:00 - [21] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: Death Shadow117 wrote: i have yet to see you explain your reasoning. scouts have the best speed and recovery. which gives them the advantage against sustained fire and being outnumbered. did you notice i did not put being outnumbered on heavies either? that's because they excel at crowd control. Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:06:00 - [22] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 58	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:09:00 - [23] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. You are wrong. A standard sniper rifle does 209 damage. Against an armor based suit, combined with a headshot, you could easily one-shot even a proto gallente scout. Advanced only does 219 and proto kaalakiota 229. So the difference between that and a standard is negligible.
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:11:00 - [24] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
gustavo acosta Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 233	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:15:00 - [25] - Quote Elaina Everdark wrote: Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. The issue is if I have a cal scout with (insert proto rifle here) I can stack extenders get my shields down to half, cloak up, hide for less than 5 seconds, come back and kill everything/ anything I want... Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:17:00 - [26] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Elaina Everdark wrote: Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. The issue is if I have a cal scout with (insert proto rifle here) I can stack extenders get my shields down to half, cloak up, hide for less than 5 seconds, come back and kill everything/ anything I want... One limiting factor, however, would be that you aren't totally invisible when cloaked, and you can't sprint and cloak, which makes the getting out of/away from combat a little iffy. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3878	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:22:00 - [27] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Don't be like this guy. Dammit Maken!! What did you make me watch? Ugh. I feel like linking to a King Thunderbolt thread should be Dust's version of a Rick Roll... gustavo acosta wrote: Elaina Everdark wrote: Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. The issue is if I have a cal scout with (insert proto rifle here) I can stack extenders get my shields down to half, cloak up, hide for less than 5 seconds, come back and kill everything/ anything I want... But you would have to sacrifice precision to do so, and are very vulnerable to fluxes. Not to mention, to be truly hidden, you would have to sacrifice tank to dampen, otherwise you are just a cloaked scout with a red chevron over your head, or showing up on medium and heavy frame tacnet because of passive scans. It is working as intended and not a real issue. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Mauren NOON The Exemplars 454	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:38:00 - [28] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts Situations in which they cannot hide or run And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me The only thing that needs to be done about scouts is that gal scouts are unscanable Scr and commando enthusiast. Amarrica!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3881	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:41:00 - [29] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. You are wrong. A standard sniper rifle does 209 damage. Against an armor based suit, combined with a headshot, you could easily one-shot even a proto gallente scout. Advanced only does 219 and proto kaalakiota 229. So the difference between that and a standard is negligible. At 209, you can only take out Minjas without HP mods on a body shot. Maybe if they are standing still you can get the OHK, but you shouldn't have to require a headshot for something that is supposed to be an Alpha damage weapon to kill the weakest suits in the game. Comparatively, you would have to use up to 5 shots on a decked out Assault if not more. From a SR. The only SR that could truly be said to have Alpha damage is the Thales. You can always tell a Millford Minja
gustavo acosta Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 233	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:42:00 - [30] - Quote Cal scouts have the same passive dampening skills as a gal scout, and all they need to do is fit a cloak and maybe a dampener to hide from mediums/ heavies. The issue with scouts having such high regeneration rate is that it makes it much easier to run as assaults. It distorts the role of the suit, i.e. "Why should I run a Caldari assault with shield re-chargers when my scout can get the same amount of regen without sacrificing tank?" Scouts shouldn't have enough HP to facilitate a such high regeneration rates. I'm fine if scouts want to tank their suits, however I do not like the fact that it allows scouts to work as well as assaults. If either a shield recharge nerf was put into place, or a scout efficiency to E-war modules so you HAVE to fit E-war modules to get the benefit rather than being passively able to see/(not be seen by) other suits. Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?



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