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Scouts need another weakness besides HP.

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Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 54	Posted - 2014.09.07 20:21:00 - [1] - Quote And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.09.07 20:37:00 - [2] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3865	Posted - 2014.09.07 20:40:00 - [3] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me Scouts are also weak to sustained fire. Heck, most scouts don't have the HP to be dead before the fire can go on long enough to be called sustained... Not to mention, you don't even NEED Alpha damage to kill a scout. I get killed by std SRs for Pete's sake. STANDARD!!! Scouts die to being outnumbered A LOT. Also very convenient for you to leave that off your list. In fact, that is the best way to get them, because then it is more obvious. You can't kill someone after being cloaked or from a hiding spot in the middle of a bunch of reds without being killed immediately after a kill, sometimes before. Being outranged is also something that kills scouts. Don't think so? Just use a CR when you see a shotgun scout, and back up while they are outside 10 m and see who dies first. They are also using a CR you say? Well unless you are also using a scout suit, you should have more HP. So the only reason someone would lose at range is if you are using a CQC weapon like an HMG or a shotgun, which is working as intended. By reading your list, you seam to be a heavy, and merely trying to make your suit seem weak. I am honestly quite tired of your lack of reason and completely biased nonsense. Please stop wasting everyone's time until you are ready to have reasoned discussions and not simply present biased ideas masquerading as something legitimate. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3522	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:25:00 - [4] - Quote Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Hakyou Brutor Pure Evil. 1295	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:39:00 - [5] - Quote You're so ridiculously wrong it's not even funny. Read over your list again... you're saying scouts aren't weak to heavies, being outnumbered, being outranged (shotgun scout), heavies, basically anyone with eyes, heavies, or heavies? git gud scrub
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3872	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:40:00 - [6] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4366	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:42:00 - [7] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me TL;DR You are weak? Okay Thanks KRRROOOOOOM
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 56	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:43:00 - [8] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Not to mention, you don't even NEED Alpha damage to kill a scout. I get killed by std SRs for Pete's sake. STANDARD!!! lol, sniper rifles ARE alpha damage weapons. hence why their DPS is low and they take a while to kill heavies, but can one-shot scouts. Even if I added the 3 things you mentioned, that still only makes 5 things scouts are weak to. The others still have more weaknesses. The reason I didn't include them is because scouts have the easiest time with those things. They can run and hide, not to mention regen from, those things the most effectively, as I stated in the OP. And splash damage still counts as alpha damage, as does fall damage.
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 393	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:45:00 - [9] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. yeah i dont understand why mlt shotguns are so powerful. Why?
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 294	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:47:00 - [10] - Quote Scouts are subject to ewar as well, just at different levels depending on race. Burning through clones like Rusty Venture.

Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 56	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:49:00 - [11] - Quote 2Berries wrote: Scouts are subject to ewar as well, just at different levels depending on race. that falls under the "other scout" category and i also stated this was not based on race
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:51:00 - [12] - Quote You do realize that almost everything can kill almost everything? "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 394	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:52:00 - [13] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me im sordy that your bad at what you do but just because you veiw scouts as "op" doesn't mean everyone else does. From what i can tell you are a heavy , and not a very good one, because ive never seen any other heavy post something this blasphamous since the cloak was nerfed. Its a sandbox bro i think heavies are the second most op thing right now ,besides the rr, but you dont see me making "heavies are op" threads do you. Get good and stop bitching. I just spoke for everyone reading this thread with 3 different answers and i have yet to see you explain your reasoning. Why?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9260	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:53:00 - [14] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. 1. You don't need alpha damage to kill a scout. Just stare at them and the heat generated from the glare of your face will cripple them. 2. DUH! Of course suits with more HP will kill them. Scout can't outlast a medium suit in a face-to-face combat situation. 3. In some cases? Try all cases especially if you're Minmatar with no EWAR bonus to help you hide or avoid against EWAR scouts which appear to be more common than the Minmatar scouts. You're also leaving out the fact that scouts are allergic to squads. This is why the vast majority of my victims are usually stragglers roaming around on their own without any backup. I've even seen some heavies do this which is stupid. If you're fat and slow, stick with the group or have a logi or EWAR scout as a buddy to look out for you. Don't be like this guy. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:54:00 - [15] - Quote on the scouts being weak to being outnumbered argument cloaks and REs are all you need
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9260	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:56:00 - [16] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: on the scouts being weak to being outnumbered argument cloaks and REs are all you need Are you even a scout? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:57:00 - [17] - Quote there i put another bullet on the list for you scouts situations in which you cannot run or hide
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2014.09.07 21:59:00 - [18] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: there i put another bullet on the list for you scouts situations in which you cannot run or hide before someone looks at you too hard I fixed it for you. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:00:00 - [19] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: i have yet to see you explain your reasoning. scouts have the best speed and recovery. which gives them the advantage against sustained fire and being outnumbered. did you notice i did not put being outnumbered on heavies either? that's because they excel at crowd control.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3874	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:01:00 - [20] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. yeah i dont understand why mlt shotguns are so powerful. SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. You can always tell a Millford Minja

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3874	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:02:00 - [21] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: Death Shadow117 wrote: i have yet to see you explain your reasoning. scouts have the best speed and recovery. which gives them the advantage against sustained fire and being outnumbered. did you notice i did not put being outnumbered on heavies either? that's because they excel at crowd control. Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 57	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:06:00 - [22] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 58	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:09:00 - [23] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. You are wrong. A standard sniper rifle does 209 damage. Against an armor based suit, combined with a headshot, you could easily one-shot even a proto gallente scout. Advanced only does 219 and proto kaalakiota 229. So the difference between that and a standard is negligible.
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:11:00 - [24] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
gustavo acosta Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 233	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:15:00 - [25] - Quote Elaina Everdark wrote: Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. The issue is if I have a cal scout with (insert proto rifle here) I can stack extenders get my shields down to half, cloak up, hide for less than 5 seconds, come back and kill everything/ anything I want... Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
Elaina Everdark Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:17:00 - [26] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Elaina Everdark wrote: Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. The issue is if I have a cal scout with (insert proto rifle here) I can stack extenders get my shields down to half, cloak up, hide for less than 5 seconds, come back and kill everything/ anything I want... One limiting factor, however, would be that you aren't totally invisible when cloaked, and you can't sprint and cloak, which makes the getting out of/away from combat a little iffy. "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall" ~Confucius
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3878	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:22:00 - [27] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Don't be like this guy. Dammit Maken!! What did you make me watch? Ugh. I feel like linking to a King Thunderbolt thread should be Dust's version of a Rick Roll... gustavo acosta wrote: Elaina Everdark wrote: Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning It doesn't have to be alpha damage though, any kind of damage will kill most, if not all scouts. The issue is if I have a cal scout with (insert proto rifle here) I can stack extenders get my shields down to half, cloak up, hide for less than 5 seconds, come back and kill everything/ anything I want... But you would have to sacrifice precision to do so, and are very vulnerable to fluxes. Not to mention, to be truly hidden, you would have to sacrifice tank to dampen, otherwise you are just a cloaked scout with a red chevron over your head, or showing up on medium and heavy frame tacnet because of passive scans. It is working as intended and not a real issue. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Mauren NOON The Exemplars 454	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:38:00 - [28] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts Situations in which they cannot hide or run And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me The only thing that needs to be done about scouts is that gal scouts are unscanable Scr and commando enthusiast. Amarrica!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3881	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:41:00 - [29] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. You are wrong. A standard sniper rifle does 209 damage. Against an armor based suit, combined with a headshot, you could easily one-shot even a proto gallente scout. Advanced only does 219 and proto kaalakiota 229. So the difference between that and a standard is negligible. At 209, you can only take out Minjas without HP mods on a body shot. Maybe if they are standing still you can get the OHK, but you shouldn't have to require a headshot for something that is supposed to be an Alpha damage weapon to kill the weakest suits in the game. Comparatively, you would have to use up to 5 shots on a decked out Assault if not more. From a SR. The only SR that could truly be said to have Alpha damage is the Thales. You can always tell a Millford Minja
gustavo acosta Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 233	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:42:00 - [30] - Quote Cal scouts have the same passive dampening skills as a gal scout, and all they need to do is fit a cloak and maybe a dampener to hide from mediums/ heavies. The issue with scouts having such high regeneration rate is that it makes it much easier to run as assaults. It distorts the role of the suit, i.e. "Why should I run a Caldari assault with shield re-chargers when my scout can get the same amount of regen without sacrificing tank?" Scouts shouldn't have enough HP to facilitate a such high regeneration rates. I'm fine if scouts want to tank their suits, however I do not like the fact that it allows scouts to work as well as assaults. If either a shield recharge nerf was put into place, or a scout efficiency to E-war modules so you HAVE to fit E-war modules to get the benefit rather than being passively able to see/(not be seen by) other suits. Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?

Mejt0 The Only Survivor. 452	Posted - 2014.09.07 22:57:00 - [31] - Quote Scouts have thier regen for hit n run. Assaults do better with hp+regen than any scout. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3883	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:07:00 - [32] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Cal scouts have the same passive dampening skills as a gal scout, and all they need to do is fit a cloak and maybe a dampener to hide from mediums/ heavies. The issue with scouts having such high regeneration rate is that it makes it much easier to run as assaults. It distorts the role of the suit, i.e. "Why should I run a Caldari assault with shield re-chargers when my scout can get the same amount of regen without sacrificing tank?" Scouts shouldn't have enough HP to facilitate a such high regeneration rates. I'm fine if scouts want to tank their suits, however I do not like the fact that it allows scouts to work as well as assaults. If either a shield recharge nerf was put into place, or a scout efficiency to E-war modules so you HAVE to fit E-war modules to get the benefit rather than being passively able to see/(not be seen by) other suits. I agree that scouts shouldn't assault better than an assault. And while I have my Caldari skilled up to 4, I only used it a handful of times since I got it, and never since Charlie. Nor do I tank, so or use an assault suit, so I can't really compare it as directly as I would like to say that a Cal scout is a better assault than others. What I will say is that it is accepted by many players, if not a majority, that shield tanking is far inferior to armor tanking at this point in time. I will also say this is the first, at least the first I can remember, of anyone complaining that Cal scout regen is a significant issue, so I will pay more attention to it. Lastly, I have heard Rattati discuss changing EWAR bonuses such that you would need to equip the mods to get the bonus instead of having any passive bonus from having skills in EWAR. I think this would be a more concise fix to many scout issues, whether it be shield or armor tanking. What I don't see is an across-the-board, all-powerful suit that the OP is trying to make scouts out to be. I would rather have real discussions about valid concerns like you raised than childish crying because a heavy is getting killed by a scout. You can always tell a Millford Minja
gustavo acosta Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 236	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:23:00 - [33] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: What I will say is that it is accepted by many players, if not a majority, that shield tanking is far inferior to armor tanking at this point in time. I will also say this is the first, at least the first I can remember, of anyone complaining that Cal scout regen is a significant issue, so I will pay more attention to it. I made a thread about it in features and discussions before charlie I think. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166555 it was mostly brushed off however. One Eyed King wrote: Lastly, I have heard Rattati discuss changing EWAR bonuses such that you would need to equip the mods to get the bonus instead of having any passive bonus from having skills in EWAR. I think this would be a more concise fix to many scout issues, whether it be shield or armor tanking. ^But this would probably be the best solution... Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries 697	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:25:00 - [34] - Quote Well, I've run Caldari and Gallente scouts along with Amarr logi, assault and sentinel. Each suit I find has its own specialized uses. People need to start using the suits what they're designed for. Scouts are supposed to be recon/quick attacks (and yes that includes longer distance attacks with something like ScR or CR). That is what the Caldari Scout description says "it is best for hit and run attacks." That doesn't mean that I should have such a low HP rate that I can't at least have somewhat of a chance to escape from something, especially a heavy suit. No I shouldn't be able to withstand a ton of fire (which I already can't in either of my suits unless I get the jump on a group of people), but I already get melted down by ScRs and RRs along with HMGs at closer ranges. I use my Cal Scout as something that "checks" people at longer ranges. My Gallente, I use for close range stealth attacks. Assault suits should be used just for that. You want to have an e-war advantage? Then weaken your EHP and start using precision or range. Either that, or use one of your equipment slots for an active scanner if you want to see more. When I use my Amarr assault with the laser, I don't automatically expect that I'm going to see scouts that are sneaking around me if I'm on a ground level. That is to be expected. That is why better players check frequently their surroundings and behind them. Last is heavies. People, part of the problem would be if scrubs would quit using heavies with light weapons and charging out there like a slower, but much tankier assault suit and then wonder why you get killed by people you can't see. No, you shouldn't see scouts at all. You're designed to be the ultimate CQC machine. You've got a huge tank with built in resistances to certain weapon damage. Currently you can almost move and turn just like an assault suit. You're there to run heavy AV or hold down or push into confined spaces/objectives. For those who grouch about my Cal Scout shield regen, I die practically instantly to ScR users or if someone uses a flux grenade, so I don't want to hear about it. Why am I still here yet?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3889	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:31:00 - [35] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: One Eyed King wrote: What I will say is that it is accepted by many players, if not a majority, that shield tanking is far inferior to armor tanking at this point in time. I will also say this is the first, at least the first I can remember, of anyone complaining that Cal scout regen is a significant issue, so I will pay more attention to it. I made a thread about it in features and discussions before charlie I think. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166555 it was mostly brushed off however. One Eyed King wrote: Lastly, I have heard Rattati discuss changing EWAR bonuses such that you would need to equip the mods to get the bonus instead of having any passive bonus from having skills in EWAR. I think this would be a more concise fix to many scout issues, whether it be shield or armor tanking. ^But this would probably be the best solution... It was probably brushed off at the time because the precision + range + shared scanning was such a huge issue with the Caldari that any shield tanking would have been looked at as an improvment. After looking at the Delta topic, it looks like the bonus shift to modules will probably not take place til Echo or later, unless they add to Delta before discussion is done. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 60	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:54:00 - [36] - Quote wtf why can't i +1 people's posts
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 60	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:57:00 - [37] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: The only thing that needs to be done about scouts is that gal scouts are unscanable I agree that they should have to sacrifice more for that ability. I wish they'd get rid of the cloak's dampening bonus altogether.
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.09.08 01:11:00 - [38] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Death Shadow117 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. yeah i dont understand why mlt shotguns are so powerful. SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. sniper rifles? i said shotguns and mlt ones not standard sniper rifles. Why?
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.09.08 01:15:00 - [39] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Recovery doesn't means squat when your HP is so low that you are killed before you can even find cover, much less recover from the damage. hence why i put alpha damage as a weakness let us not forget that scouts had as much HP as assaults before they were buffed and that HP stacking is still prevalent on scouts. for example now that caldari has no precision bonus but still has innate range and dampening, he can stack shield modules on his high slots. honestly people i am not the one complaining here. you are. i am just making logical points and you have yet to refute them. try not letting your emotions get in the way of reasoning hp staking is prevelant in scouts? ivw yet to see one scout stack hp (besides amarr) this week. any scout (besides amarr) that stacks armor isnt really a scout im sorry that the retards of our proud class are stacking armor against yoi but ive already stated that stacking reg plates on a scout should put either more weight than usual or add to their scan profile. The only plates scouts should use are reactives and ferroscales. Why?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3899	Posted - 2014.09.08 01:16:00 - [40] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Death Shadow117 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Yeah. I dislike those things too. I remember seeing Rattati making a statement about how lower tier SGs are a little too good compared to a Proto, so you might see some changes across the tiers. That significant of alpha shouldn't come cheaply or with low skill. yeah i dont understand why mlt shotguns are so powerful. SRs are SUPPOSED to be Alpha damage weapons, but have you ever seen a standard SRs stats? They are laughable. sniper rifles? i said shotguns and mlt ones not standard sniper rifles. I may have grabbed the wrong reply I wanted to quote. I honestly don't know what happened there. You can always tell a Millford Minja

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9268	Posted - 2014.09.08 01:18:00 - [41] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Cal scouts have the same passive dampening skills as a gal scout, and all they need to do is fit a cloak and maybe a dampener to hide from mediums/ heavies. The issue with scouts having such high regeneration rate is that it makes it much easier to run as assaults. It distorts the role of the suit, i.e. "Why should I run a Caldari assault with shield re-chargers when my scout can get the same amount of regen without sacrificing tank?" Scouts shouldn't have enough HP to facilitate a such high regeneration rates. I'm fine if scouts want to tank their suits, however I do not like the fact that it allows scouts to work as well as assaults. If either a shield recharge nerf was put into place, or a scout efficiency to E-war modules so you HAVE to fit E-war modules to get the benefit rather than being passively able to see/(not be seen by) other suits. I agree that scouts shouldn't assault better than an assault. And while I have my Caldari skilled up to 4, I only used it a handful of times since I got it, and never since Charlie. Nor do I tank, so or use an assault suit, so I can't really compare it as directly as I would like to say that a Cal scout is a better assault than others. What I will say is that it is accepted by many players, if not a majority, that shield tanking is far inferior to armor tanking at this point in time. I will also say this is the first, at least the first I can remember, of anyone complaining that Cal scout regen is a significant issue, so I will pay more attention to it. Lastly, I have heard Rattati discuss changing EWAR bonuses such that you would need to equip the mods to get the bonus instead of having any passive bonus from having skills in EWAR. I think this would be a more concise fix to many scout issues, whether it be shield or armor tanking. What I don't see is an across-the-board, all-powerful suit that the OP is trying to make scouts out to be. I would rather have real discussions about valid concerns like you raised than childish crying because a heavy is getting killed by a scout. This I agree. Scouts are relatively difficult to balance in relation to other classes and each other, but they are not the go-to class for winning any match. They are fast, but can't outrun a hail of bullets. They are stealthy, but their tank can't compete with that of other classes. They can recover quickly if they have to, but the recovery is delayed and doesn't kick in immediately which means they are vulnerable until you stop attacking them. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Atiim 11946	Posted - 2014.09.08 01:46:00 - [42] - Quote Scout Dropsuits don't have HP as a weakness. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 316	Posted - 2014.09.08 01:58:00 - [43] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Kin Cat wrote: And I'm not talking about racial weaknesses here. Every dropsuit has a racial strength and weakness, not just Scouts. Scouts are weak to Alpha damage Suits with higher HP In some cases other scouts And that's about it. Scouts can strafe or retreat/recover more effectively from any of what I'm about to mention below. Mediums are weak to Alpha damage Sustained fire, especially the slow ones EWAR Being outnumbered Being outranged Cloaks Logis are weak to everything Heavies are weak to Sustained fire EWAR Being outranged Cloaks Faster suits Suits with better regen Other heavies If I missed something please tell me Scouts are also weak to sustained fire. Heck, most scouts don't have the HP to be dead before the fire can go on long enough to be called sustained... Not to mention, you don't even NEED Alpha damage to kill a scout. I get killed by std SRs for Pete's sake. STANDARD!!! Scouts die to being outnumbered A LOT. Also very convenient for you to leave that off your list. In fact, that is the best way to get them, because then it is more obvious. You can't kill someone after being cloaked or from a hiding spot in the middle of a bunch of reds without being killed immediately after a kill, sometimes before. Being outranged is also something that kills scouts. Don't think so? Just use a CR when you see a shotgun scout, and back up while they are outside 10 m and see who dies first. They are also using a CR you say? Well unless you are also using a scout suit, you should have more HP. So the only reason someone would lose at range is if you are using a CQC weapon like an HMG or a shotgun, which is working as intended. By reading your list, you seam to be a heavy, and merely trying to make your suit seem weak. I am honestly quite tired of your lack of reason and completely biased nonsense. Please stop wasting everyone's time until you are ready to have reasoned discussions and not simply present biased ideas masquerading as something legitimate. You guys make the "scout aren't OP" argument seem fine on the forums. Someone reading this would think they could kill a proto scout with a basic suit, no? Then you get in-game and realize just utterly ridiculous it is to watch scouts get hit head on with hmg's in range and survive?! Most of you spend more time attacking others post than you do proving scouts aren't OP?! They aren't saying scouts are OP like the burst HMG?! Now that's a whole new tier of BS! They are saying scouts shouldn't be able to stack armor without loosing speed, dodge not one but multiple players round while taking out others head on, and beat every other fit in regen regardless to what mods you wear?! If they have all these new abilities why did they ever need the cloak? It's like pooring salt on a wound?! They saw me coming a mile away, can rep faster, strafe like crazy, and put out massive dmg so why does he need to be invisible again? Take the cloak, and we'll be closer to balance as the scouts have everything else at their disposal. Now before you bring your bash post stick tell me why they absolutely need the cloak? "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 316	Posted - 2014.09.08 02:00:00 - [44] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: One Eyed King wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Cal scouts have the same passive dampening skills as a gal scout, and all they need to do is fit a cloak and maybe a dampener to hide from mediums/ heavies. The issue with scouts having such high regeneration rate is that it makes it much easier to run as assaults. It distorts the role of the suit, i.e. "Why should I run a Caldari assault with shield re-chargers when my scout can get the same amount of regen without sacrificing tank?" Scouts shouldn't have enough HP to facilitate a such high regeneration rates. I'm fine if scouts want to tank their suits, however I do not like the fact that it allows scouts to work as well as assaults. If either a shield recharge nerf was put into place, or a scout efficiency to E-war modules so you HAVE to fit E-war modules to get the benefit rather than being passively able to see/(not be seen by) other suits. I agree that scouts shouldn't assault better than an assault. And while I have my Caldari skilled up to 4, I only used it a handful of times since I got it, and never since Charlie. Nor do I tank, so or use an assault suit, so I can't really compare it as directly as I would like to say that a Cal scout is a better assault than others. What I will say is that it is accepted by many players, if not a majority, that shield tanking is far inferior to armor tanking at this point in time. I will also say this is the first, at least the first I can remember, of anyone complaining that Cal scout regen is a significant issue, so I will pay more attention to it. Lastly, I have heard Rattati discuss changing EWAR bonuses such that you would need to equip the mods to get the bonus instead of having any passive bonus from having skills in EWAR. I think this would be a more concise fix to many scout issues, whether it be shield or armor tanking. What I don't see is an across-the-board, all-powerful suit that the OP is trying to make scouts out to be. I would rather have real discussions about valid concerns like you raised than childish crying because a heavy is getting killed by a scout. This I agree. Scouts are relatively difficult to balance in relation to other classes and each other, but they are not the go-to class for winning any match. They are fast, but can't outrun a hail of bullets. They are stealthy, but their tank can't compete with that of other classes. They can recover quickly if they have to, but the recovery is delayed and doesn't kick in immediately which means they are vulnerable until you stop attacking them. They dodge all kinds of fire all the time! What game are you referring to? The dust I play has scouts that can strafe out of entire clips of Gek with minimal dmg lol! "Anybody order chaos?"
OZAROW Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1574	Posted - 2014.09.08 02:04:00 - [45] - Quote Elaina Everdark wrote: This could maybe count under not having much HP, but scouts are really weak to splash damage. And tall ledges.... I die from bloody jumping offf crap all the time so put that on the list haha Yes, you just got rocked by a guy with a BOLT PISTOL and a pair of knives! !
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 453	Posted - 2014.09.08 02:07:00 - [46] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Elaina Everdark wrote: This could maybe count under not having much HP, but scouts are really weak to splash damage. And tall ledges.... I die from bloody jumping offf crap all the time so put that on the list haha i die bcuz scrambler rifle
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3904	Posted - 2014.09.08 02:22:00 - [47] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: You guys make the "scout aren't OP" argument seem fine on the forums. Someone reading this would think they could kill a proto scout with a basic suit, no? Then you get in-game and realize just utterly ridiculous it is to watch scouts get hit head on with hmg's in range and survive?! Most of you spend more time attacking others post than you do proving scouts aren't OP?! They aren't saying scouts are OP like the burst HMG?! Now that's a whole new tier of BS! They are saying scouts shouldn't be able to stack armor without loosing speed, dodge not one but multiple players round while taking out others head on, and beat every other fit in regen regardless to what mods you wear?! If they have all these new abilities why did they ever need the cloak? It's like pooring salt on a wound?! They saw me coming a mile away, can rep faster, strafe like crazy, and put out massive dmg so why does he need to be invisible again? Take the cloak, and we'll be closer to balance as the scouts have everything else at their disposal. Now before you bring your bash post stick tell me why they absolutely need the cloak? A) I do get killed by basic suits quite frequently. It is a hazard when you run 300 ish HP. B) Show me this video of a scout magically dodging HMGs in range. I would love to see it. Even old school heavies who run them often say they have no problems with killing scouts in their HMG, so why should you be the only one to have these issues if this is an at-large problem? C) Scouts DO lose speed by wearing armor plating, just like everyone else. They may supplement that with a Kin Cat, but then they are going to have reduced fitting capacity and won't be able to dampen. Thus leaving them susceptible to any squads that have even a single scout with any sort of precision. D) Scouts need cloaks because they are squishy. More so now than at any time since 1.8, when the tanked scout really became a problem. Assaults can now tank, and regen, much better than scouts can, plus they have more flexibility in terms of slots for fitting armor, damage mods, speed, and other things. Prior to cloaks, all any merc had to do was spot a scout out of the corner of their eye on those massively open battlefields as they try to bypass the action to hack CRUs, objectives, and plant uplinks to give their teams a chance, only to have that same red kill them in a single burst of an AR, CR, or RR. Now that cloaks are available, it is much easier to traverse the battlefield and not get killed by people who randomly see you because there is not enough cover to ever go from pt A to pt B covertly without cloak. Scout suits are not perfect, but cloaks are far from the "I win" button you pretend them to be. Your assessment of the problem is obtuse and as a result your solutions are heavy handed and will in no way move the game forward toward a more balanced playing field. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 63	Posted - 2014.09.08 02:28:00 - [48] - Quote yeah the scout QQ in this thread is ******* ridiculous. scouts are the most OP thing in this game right now. i should know i just got stomped in PC by like a full team of scouts.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3908	Posted - 2014.09.08 02:29:00 - [49] - Quote Kin Cat wrote: yeah the scout QQ in this thread is ******* ridiculous. scouts are the most OP thing in this game right now. i should know i just got stomped in PC by like a full team of scouts. Right, its the scouts QQing... You can always tell a Millford Minja
maluble Espi0nage 62	Posted - 2014.09.09 02:14:00 - [50] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Thats what you get for lerting him get that close

Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 72	Posted - 2014.09.09 02:37:00 - [51] - Quote maluble wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Don't worry a mlt shotgun can kill my proto assault 1-2 shots.. MLT Thats what you get for lerting him get that close gloat while you can you're about to get double nerfed
George Moros RestlessSpirits 412	Posted - 2014.09.09 12:11:00 - [52] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: You guys make the "scout aren't OP" argument seem fine on the forums. Someone reading this would think they could kill a proto scout with a basic suit, no? Then you get in-game and realize just utterly ridiculous it is to watch scouts get hit head on with hmg's in range and survive?! Most of you spend more time attacking others post than you do proving scouts aren't OP?! I kill proto scouts with my 7k ISK sentinel fit. And it's not even a rare event. If a scout comes head-on to a HMG sentinel, then only a huge difference in player skill and/or some lucky circumstance will allow the scout to survive. It is really sad to see how people QQ about any approach to player vs player engagement that differs from classical DPS vs EHP "mano a mano" style of combat. Every other approach is deemed as either cowardly or unfair/OP. This holds true not only to scouts, but also snipers etc. You have to keep in mind that the only way for scouts to fight is "unfairly". A (good) scout will always try to get into a position from which it's target can't react before it's dead. The reason for this is simple. If a scout's target can react (i.e. fight in a "fair" manner), then the odds are stacked against the scout, and he will most likely lose. I think people here tend to overestimate the potency of scouts due to their high usage, especially in pubs. However, the main reason people prefer scouts in pubs is because they allow good efficiency in matches even if you play solo or in ad-hoc squads. An assault (or a heavy) running solo is just the sort of target a scout has the best chance to kill. Therefore, it's no wonder that people who play solo then either declare scouts to be OP, or start playing scouts themselves. Pulvereus ergo queritor.


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