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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
442
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Posted - 2014.09.07 08:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:I really like the suggestion to just limit the max number of uplinks to 5 total at any moment...but I hope that the proposed changes work.
Cheers
One suit can carry 9 active links 12 total. So skilling past adv would almost be pointless.
Your going to get everyone to just drop logi all together and push them to scouting only ( 5 hives will fit on one scout, oh and they can carry rep tools too ).
Tactical placement of multiple uplinks keeps games moving, destroy that and we will have a lot more redline matches.
Spammed in one area? I've scored at least 50 points with a single flux. Drop links are far from one of the most important things CCP should be spending time on.
I could care less if their were 50 links in one room. Hell yesterday a accidentally killed a scout spawning on one as I was melee it.
Lonewolf till I die
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
912
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Posted - 2014.09.07 10:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:I really like the suggestion to just limit the max number of uplinks to 5 total at any moment...but I hope that the proposed changes work.
Cheers
Just another way to make scouts a better logi than logis.
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
705
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Posted - 2014.09.07 10:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:
I could care less if their were 50 links in one room. Hell yesterday a accidentally killed a scout spawning on one as I was melee it.
Have you actually attempted to play a match where enough equipment was in the same "room"?
Enough to make the game "lag" to the point where its completely unplayable
hence the common act for some squads to make "lagrooms" every match, seriously how have you not heard of lag rooms before, even after you clear the room they can just set it up again in seconds, especially the old A point on the communications array and underground near A on the research socket, due to the supply depot right next to (or inside) the rooms
Also by changing suits at a supply depot, you can just have the maximum amount of EVERY SINGLE drop uplink out at the same time, 12 is by no means the maximum
If the change was something along the lines of "changing suits at a supply depot causes all placed equipment to be destroyed" it would solve the last problem but still not be enough to solve the lagroom one, although im not sure what would happen to equipment if someone died and then respawned as something else
Prime League champion
SGL Sidearm champion
Fanfest '14 All star champion
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
912
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Posted - 2014.09.07 11:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tech De Ra wrote:HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:
I could care less if their were 50 links in one room. Hell yesterday a accidentally killed a scout spawning on one as I was melee it.
Have you actually attempted to play a match where enough equipment was in the same "room"? Enough to make the game "lag" to the point where its completely unplayable hence the common act for some squads to make "lagrooms" every match, seriously how have you not heard of lag rooms before, even after you clear the room they can just set it up again in seconds, especially the old A point on the communications array and underground near A on the research socket, due to the supply depot right next to (or inside) the rooms Also by changing suits at a supply depot, you can just have the maximum amount of EVERY SINGLE drop uplink out at the same time, 12 is by no means the maximum If the change was something along the lines of "changing suits at a supply depot causes all placed equipment to be destroyed" it would solve the last problem but still not be enough to solve the lagroom one, although im not sure what would happen to equipment if someone died and then respawned as something else
Yes, crappy server programming is the reason to destroy a tactical style of gameplay. |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3472
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Posted - 2014.09.07 11:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Personally I kinda prefer the whole, dropsuit anchor point thing.
But there are so many possible problems.
I think the simplest solution is to reduce the spawn count to 12 at PRO and have EVERY uplink come with AT LEAST a 11 second spawn timer.
You then give MCRU's a 6 second timer and the option for mercs to spawn in even when the craft is full (like a tank with no turret emplacements allows) and voila.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Bahirae Serugiusu
Vendetta Reactionary Force
16
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Posted - 2014.09.07 11:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Let people carry even more of them! |
Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
705
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Posted - 2014.09.07 11:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Tech De Ra wrote:HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:
I could care less if their were 50 links in one room. Hell yesterday a accidentally killed a scout spawning on one as I was melee it.
Have you actually attempted to play a match where enough equipment was in the same "room"? Enough to make the game "lag" to the point where its completely unplayable hence the common act for some squads to make "lagrooms" every match, seriously how have you not heard of lag rooms before, even after you clear the room they can just set it up again in seconds, especially the old A point on the communications array and underground near A on the research socket, due to the supply depot right next to (or inside) the rooms Also by changing suits at a supply depot, you can just have the maximum amount of EVERY SINGLE drop uplink out at the same time, 12 is by no means the maximum If the change was something along the lines of "changing suits at a supply depot causes all placed equipment to be destroyed" it would solve the last problem but still not be enough to solve the lagroom one, although im not sure what would happen to equipment if someone died and then respawned as something else Yes, crappy server programming is the reason to destroy a tactical style of gameplay.
It's not the server that's the issue
You can have all the tactical gameplay you want, if the ps3 can't handle it and goes to sub 5 fps, then it need to be addressed, be that optimizing it so even under mass spam the ps3 doesn't slow to a halt, or to limit the spam
Prime League champion
SGL Sidearm champion
Fanfest '14 All star champion
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1260
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 11:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Whoaaa new cpm bros, please don't go work in total secrecy.
Consider the community.
I repeat my suggestion from earlier times:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1504433#post1504433
Even though I'm an advocate for uplink use in warfare, I too am in favor of uplink limitations.
Having each variation to have it's own maximum causes:
- Huge uplink spam as it's too easy for each player to set up some 5-7 links at ease
- Forces to have too many saved fittings as each link combo needs it's own
So need to limit uplinks exists. Critical change would be to have limitation which doesn't care about uplink variation. But just what to limit?
Team limitation is impractical and too confusing when implemented.
Squad limitation is easily circumvented.
Personal limitation remains, and is also okay to allow some specialization.
There needs to be an incentive to skill up to proto links like post-uprising (pre-uprising it did NOT really make sense!).
Medomai Grey's suggestion, which has been mentioned elsewhere as well, is a decent start:
Uplink skill level setting the active link maximum:
L1 - 1
L3 - 2
L5 - 3
But it is not quite enough, otherwise it would still be too easy to use several low level links.
So a small tuning is needed:
Skill Level:
L1 - max 1 link of STD level or higher
L3 - the above PLUS 1 link of ADV level or higher
L5 - the above PLUS 1 link of PRO level or higher
The maximum active per player would be three.
There would be a strong incentive to level up the uplink skill instead of spamming low level links variations.
In general the uplinks themselves could have slightly tuned down max active number, with maybe gauged versions having max two active but with severe limitations (care must be taken to get rid of gauded links superiority!).
If maximum of three links seems too small, there could be one level added to top:
L0 - Max 1 militia link
(So the level 5 maximum would be four links in this case)
Note: There are some other low level links in existence: for example, Amarr Drop Uplink BPO
Note2: The different equipment variation having their own limit really really has to go away!
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1216
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
A few alterations could fix Link spam.
- All links of the same variant would expire once you deployed another tier in order of placement
This would need to include FW links so they could be used as a alternate not an addition
- The Stable Uplink at all tiers should have 1 active (Viziam STB carried 3/1active)
- The Guaged Uplink.. too easily adds to spam and Could? be removed, and replaced with
An ISK variant of the 'Abyss' 'AmarrFW' Uplink..
- Alter one of the Links (Flux) to also expire upon death
So this leaves
- 2 Viziam Drop Uplinks
- 2 Viziam Quantum Uplinks
- 1 Viziam Stable Uplink
- 2 Viziam Flux Uplinks
- 2 Viziam 'Abyss' Uplinks (The Ex-Guaged Uplink)
To drop another tier of link would destroy the one already active of that variant.
So end result the Uplink Spammer would have 9 potential Uplinks, 4 of which destoy once they die
So it leaves '5' active Links, so adds to CCPs target and leaves Links working as intended
rather than sticky-taping a 5 Uplink cap on Link placement, this has reason behind it.
I do not approve of Link spam i'm not trying to keep it but this provides a solution.
To also clear map view for spawns, the 'Quantum' Uplink could be Squad-only ..??
^^ any thoughts on this?
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
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Immortal John Ripper
24305
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:Lol can you two dudes flirt in a private room or something?
no, you must watch.
I like it better that way.
Avatar - PirateKing - Hokage - The guy who captured them all - Your daddy
Happy Birthday to the greatest player on dust
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General John Ripper
24305
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:Lol can you two dudes flirt in a private room or something?
no, you must watch.
I like it better that way.
Avatar - PirateKing - Hokage - The guy who captured them all - Your daddy
Happy Birthday to the greatest player on dust
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
5509
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Posted - 2014.09.07 13:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Uplinks are replaced with a jack in the box and an ally must turn it upon spawn request.
My hometown beat Manchester united.
Git gud man utd.
4-0
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
159
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Posted - 2014.09.07 13:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:I really like the suggestion to just limit the max number of uplinks to 5 total at any moment...but I hope that the proposed changes work.
Cheers
Great cause that's not gonna muck things up..This issue is with them being spammed all over the place right? So ..how does it prioritize who's links stay active..are the proto amar logis links just gonna start disappearing because a random blue laid a few mlt links at the mcc? Or is this 5 links per merc
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
1088
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 14:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:My Guess: An overly complicated solution that in the end kittens things up more then before. Perhaps.  You never know we don't claim to be perfect.
If I remember correctly giving each logi suit a bonus for a specific piece of equipment was supposed to solve this very issue. Yet here we are again. Just link the total active allowed to the player not the individual equipment tier and be done with it. You know exactly what should have been done the last time.
Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it, damn you! Turns out I wont.
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1640
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 14:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
To be honest I thought we'd cracked it till I heard the confetti idea......
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
Vist dustcpm.com
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Grease Spillett
research lab
470
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Posted - 2014.09.07 14:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:To be honest I thought we'd cracked it till I heard the confetti idea......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u155ncSlkCk
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3987
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Posted - 2014.09.07 15:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
OP, are you talking about that stupid spawn grenade thing? That's a terrible idea. Let me fix this sh!t for you with some things I've suggested repeatedly for like a year now:
1) Can't drop equipment within 5m of each other or 10m of an installation. No more lag rooms, farming useless nanohive WP around supply depots, or camping 3 stacked repair hives. You're welcome.
2) Reduce the number of uplink variants. It's a bit much, particularly at proto.
3) Drop uplink proficiency skill (separate from the current skill, make equipment spam an SP sink.) Personally I think the one proposed above is a little restrictive unless you give an additional bonus of some kind to the Amarr logi b/c it becomes a useless suit if you limit the number of uplinks too much. I propose one uplink per level, with one or two at level 0, so you get a total of 6 or 7 IF you invest a couple million SP into it.
Alternately you could go with the 3 total for everyone else like Medomai/kerosiini suggest, but the Amarr logi gets an additional link at odd-numbered levels, to get the same total. That might be even more effective in the reduce spam/reward specialization framework.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
482
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Posted - 2014.09.07 15:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:OP, are you talking about that stupid spawn grenade thing? That's a terrible idea. Let me fix this sh!t for you with some things I've suggested repeatedly for like a year now:
1) Can't drop equipment within 5m of each other or 10m of an installation. No more lag rooms, farming useless nanohive WP around supply depots, or camping 3 stacked repair hives. You're welcome.
2) Reduce the number of uplink variants. It's a bit much, particularly at proto. While I'm at it, why are there TWO DIFFERENT Imperial Viziam uplinks? Sooo annoying.
3) Drop uplink proficiency skill (separate from the current skill, make equipment spam an SP sink.) Personally I think the one proposed above is a little restrictive unless you give an additional bonus of some kind to the Amarr logi b/c it becomes a useless suit if you limit the number of uplinks too much. I propose one uplink per level, with one or two at level 0, so you get a total of 6 or 7 IF you invest a couple million SP into it.
Alternately you could go with the 3 total for everyone else like Medomai/kerosiini suggest, but the Amarr logi gets an additional link at odd-numbered levels, to get the same total. That might be even more effective in the reduce spam/reward specialization framework.
No, I'm talking about the "problem" with uplink spam. CPMs said they were going to change it somehow so it won't be spammed. I like your first suggestion bro. It seems simple enough.
Saying what's on people's minds
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3988
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Posted - 2014.09.07 15:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
There's another thread where this grenade like behavior for uplinks was proposed, I think it was IWS who posted it.
Terribad idea.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4157
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 15:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:I really like the suggestion to just limit the max number of uplinks to 5 total at any moment...but I hope that the proposed changes work.
Cheers One suit can carry 9 active links 12 total. So skilling past adv would almost be pointless.
Your going to get everyone to just drop logi all together and push them to scouting only ( 5 hives will fit on one scout, oh and they can carry rep tools too ). Tactical placement of multiple uplinks keeps games moving, destroy that and we will have a lot more redline matches. Spammed in one area? I've scored at least 50 points with a single flux. Drop links are far from one of the most important things CCP should be spending time on. I could care less if their were 50 links in one room. Hell yesterday a accidentally killed a scout spawning on one as I was melee it.
In regards to the 5 links per merc cap:
speccing into proto would be about faster spawn times and specific variety of links.
Why would logi's be diminished by each player having a cap of 5? They get 1-2 more slots...so this doesn't prevent them so much as encourages them to use other logi equipment...So 5 hives will fit on a scout suit huh? Is five hives a sufficient substitute for a logi when there's no supply depot for 300m while you're defending an objective? Those extra slots are of more value when swapping at supply depots to effectively allow you to use scouts as if they had the same number of equips as logi's is discouraged by a cap.
Tactical is not 15 links from one person IMO. It's spam. But these are opinions right?
I'm super glad you were able to kill a bunch of links yesterday! 
Maybe come play a PC match with me! I think you might well enjoy experiencing matches on a level you may well have never experienced before vs some of the best spammers in the game. 
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4157
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 15:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:My Guess: An overly complicated solution that in the end kittens things up more then before. Perhaps. You never know we don't claim to be perfect. If I remember correctly giving each logi suit a bonus for a specific piece of equipment was supposed to solve this very issue. Yet here we are again. Just link the total active allowed to the player not the individual equipment tier and be done with it. You know exactly what should have been done the last time.
The suit bonuses for individual equipment are not very well thought out...it encourages using 4 scanner gal logi's in PC...using 3 link single rep tool minmatar logi's in PC...amarr logi's have no purpose with 3 equip slots...starting slower move speed (when link spam is about quickness), 3 equip slots, and a bonus that doesn't persist after you've been killed even if you spawn back in as amarr logi...and the caldari ( ) that thing is a great slayer suit, but just hives? No one specs a 2.8 mil sp sink just so you get longer lasting hives...or maybe they do.   
I don't pretend to know the magic bullet. I have seen so many well reasoned posts most of which are unfeasible in a hotfix (create a minimum required distance for instance or they pop) but I see potential in this idea anyways.
I'm always skeptical, but I'm willing to try and fail and learn than to keep the status quo.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4157
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 15:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:I really like the suggestion to just limit the max number of uplinks to 5 total at any moment...but I hope that the proposed changes work.
Cheers Great cause that's not gonna muck things up..This issue is with them being spammed all over the place right? So ..how does it prioritize who's links stay active..are the proto amar logis links just gonna start disappearing because a random blue laid a few mlt links at the mcc? Or is this 5 links per merc
I am not detailing the CPM's idea. I'm just saying this was the most basic idea I personally was behind...this is not to proposal...the proposal is more creative. 
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Zindorak
1.U.P
871
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 16:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:OP, are you talking about that stupid spawn grenade thing? That's a terrible idea. Let me fix this sh!t for you with some things I've suggested repeatedly for like a year now:
1) Can't drop equipment within 5m of each other or 10m of an installation. No more lag rooms, farming useless nanohive WP around supply depots, or camping 3 stacked repair hives. You're welcome.
2) Reduce the number of uplink variants. It's a bit much, particularly at proto. While I'm at it, why are there TWO DIFFERENT Imperial Viziam uplinks? Sooo annoying.
3) Drop uplink proficiency skill (separate from the current skill, make equipment spam an SP sink.) Personally I think the one proposed above is a little restrictive unless you give an additional bonus of some kind to the Amarr logi b/c it becomes a useless suit if you limit the number of uplinks too much. I propose one uplink per level, with one or two at level 0, so you get a total of 6 or 7 IF you invest a couple million SP into it.
Alternately you could go with the 3 total for everyone else like Medomai/kerosiini suggest, but the Amarr logi gets an additional link at odd-numbered levels, to get the same total. That might be even more effective in the reduce spam/reward specialization framework.
I like the profieciency for the Links but i believe that bonus should be added to the Am Logi to make it more useable
Pokemon master!
I suck at Tekken lol
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
1090
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 16:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote: I'm always skeptical, but I'm willing to try and fail and learn than to keep the status quo.
There's been enough failure with this games development, that's a very large part of why it failed to take off. Nobody wants to play a game that gets broken every patch and then takes months to fix, just to have another terrible idea added that again breaks the game. Had the recent hotfixes happened way back when they should have been introduced rather then after the game is all but announced dead by CCP maybe people would have hung around.
Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it, damn you! Turns out I wont.
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1350
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 17:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:I really like the suggestion to just limit the max number of uplinks to 5 total at any moment...but I hope that the proposed changes work.
Cheers Great cause that's not gonna muck things up..This issue is with them being spammed all over the place right? So ..how does it prioritize who's links stay active..are the proto amar logis links just gonna start disappearing because a random blue laid a few mlt links at the mcc? Or is this 5 links per merc I am not detailing the CPM's idea. I'm just saying this was the most basic idea I personally was behind...this is not to proposal...the proposal is more creative.
Wait you lot didn't go for the increase spawn time for each link active did you? ... 
Super Cow Powers.
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ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1488
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 17:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:I really like the suggestion to just limit the max number of uplinks to 5 total at any moment...but I hope that the proposed changes work.
Cheers Great cause that's not gonna muck things up..This issue is with them being spammed all over the place right? So ..how does it prioritize who's links stay active..are the proto amar logis links just gonna start disappearing because a random blue laid a few mlt links at the mcc? Or is this 5 links per merc I am not detailing the CPM's idea. I'm just saying this was the most basic idea I personally was behind...this is not to proposal...the proposal is more creative.
Oh god, more creative.. That never ends well in Dust.
If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known.
Also, Raptors...
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1191
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 17:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
Death Shadow117 wrote:Love it and the missing clone is then transported to a warbarge party with lazor light shows and dancing.
I think we got something here
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4159
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:I am not detailing the CPM's idea. I'm just saying this was the most basic idea I personally was behind...this is not to proposal...the proposal is more creative. > increase spawn time for each link active?
That is creative.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
209
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:
1) Can't drop equipment within 5m of each other or 10m of an installation. No more lag rooms, farming useless nanohive WP around supply depots, or camping 3 stacked repair hives. You're welcome.
this is the best idea right here but 5m is only about 2 merc lengths, make it 20m and the problem of umpteen uplinks around objectives and in small rooms goes away
lets just burn this motherfucker down
pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
5514
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 20:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
They function as re's also.
My hometown beat Manchester united.
Git gud man utd.
4-0
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