This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?

I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting.

Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up.

We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game. The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass.

Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property. But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers.

So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.

Just saying.

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

It's much better now, if you can believe it. You should have been around when AFKing was the favorite past time.

But yeah, why even play this game if you're not going to spawn in? Might as well play something else.

And a friendly PSA to all you noob smurfs out there: Uplinks are the most valuable piece of equipment in the game, for all player classes except dedicated heavies. Learn to use them correctly. Matches are frequently won and lost due to uplinks.

*The More You Know*

Ever heard of having fun?

For some of us, winning is how we have fun. Losing sucks, and only losers do it.

Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game."

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

And if they won't listen to the Hero of Canton then there is no hope for them.

All I know is Im having much fun in ambush because the name of the game is kill. But even blueberries mess that up.

Played dom in a squad today and within 5 mins I was pissed. No one dropped uplinks after first set destroyed. Same blues running into the same chokepoints already heavily guarded by reds. Long story short, no one tried it seemed.

I miss pre FF playerbase. The pubs werent exactly golden then but hell you could at least come across smart players with the will to win, even when the chips didnt fall in our favor.

So all I mainly do is run ambush. Objective games **** me off how incompetent the blues are. But they wanna ***** about qsyncs. We do that to lessen the morons on our team.

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

+1

It's a shame to see so many people that chastise people that expect to win matches they play in. Perhaps it's fallout from these kids not keeping score and everyone getting a trophy growing up.

Unless you are prepared as a squad to spend some ISK over the corse of 10 matches you are going to have to spend a lot of ISK trying to set parameters on the battlefield for the blueberries to at least test the waters again (if the bad guys came and pushed them away from the point). Calling in DS after DS to get uplinks up, running proto to offset being outnumbered. If you turn the tide back in their favor the blueberries miraculously end up showing up again (sometimes).

they probably want to play to have fun

by the looks of it they are doing better than you in that regard

This was basically my mindset since my first days playing games, in the past year or two I've realised how toxic of a mindset it can be, how bad it makes you perform and just puts you in a bad mood when things aren't going your way

I can be so hyper competitive in pretty much any game and it got to a point where i was never having fun and i started doing worse and worse and worse as i continued and it was (and still is) really hard to get out of that mindset

If you're only having fun while winning then at some point you might end up the same, just a heads up

Precisely. I don't like throwing my money into a oil drum of fire.

I butchered that post trying to type and edit on my phone. Glad you were able to decode what I was trying to say.

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

It's much better now, if you can believe it. You should have been around when AFKing was the favorite past time.

But yeah, why even play this game if you're not going to spawn in? Might as well play something else.

And a friendly PSA to all you noob smurfs out there: Uplinks are the most valuable piece of equipment in the game, for all player classes except dedicated heavies. Learn to use them correctly. Matches are frequently won and lost due to uplinks.

*The More You Know*

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

I think everyone hates when their team starts ******* up. Sometimes one squad isn't enough to carry a team to victory though. Like everything is all fie and dandy, then the enemies get gud and **** **** up. Like earlier there were five blues next to me after I spawned in. A heavy with a SG shoots me, I hop back and shoot with my bolt pistol. All the blues just watch the scene as I get popped once more(i had knives and didn't wanna take a chance to knife the fat ******) and die while they continue to watch the heavy.

Join a real corp and that will help. Go to the weekly/monthly leaderboard and search corp kills and WPs. Try to join someone that looks active.

I'm not recruiting you, I'm just saying. There will still be idiots, but you should find squads that know what they are doing.

I do hope you are not implying that the Opus Arcana is among this collection of corporations that you so clearly look down upon

Lol. Logan's been around the block, this is not new information to him. I actually thought he quit like a year ago. (o7 Logan, long time no see!). For my money you can't blame people too much for derping around in pubs unless or until an effective matchmaking system is implemented.

I mean. I'm stubborn and try about 95% of the time, but in all honesty when it's just comically one sided I'm not above dropping back to snipe. TBH I don't see that as any worse than ragequitting or otherwise bailing on a match when you already know it's not going to go well.


(And... Contract hunters? Are they a thing again?)

What if I do? It's not like you're in it. I dislike all those candy assed proto-decked pub-stompers. The majority run around using the same cookie cutter fits. Showing no sense of individuality. And heaven forbid you do something or say anything not "corp approved". Cause if you do, you'll find out that the "Band of Brothers" sentiment is only something you find in movies. Just saying from personal experience. :)

First I care because I am it's founder and stood at the helm for nearly two years before the disaster of 05/14/13 making it into what is currently the oldest most honorable and now most successful corporation to have graced this game with some of the best players in Dust including Leviticus Knight,Psychotic Shooter,Viscen Minora, and Pipies and obviously you do not know us at all because ever since the earliest days of closed beta we have maintained the highest ethical and honorable standards maybe you get to know the greatest legacy corporation in Dust.

**** like this is why I keep my voice chat setting turned off in just about every game I play

Actually, I don't know why i'm stressing it. Unless, my team selection luck changes, I give this game a week before I delete it and go back to playing ACIII Online.

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

Yo John, how you doing? o7

It's funny because only one of those people is currently with the Opus Arcana so do wish to try your whiny,childish nonsense again because it's pretty clear that you know nothing about the corporations that you are bashing?

Well, if you could actually comprehend what was said, I only mentioned Leviticus and Miss Leviticus. Pay attention to what is typed and by whom.

so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps.

Its about costs. Which aren't static. The rewards aren't static either. If a team already took losses in their first push to get an objective, and then took some losses holding the objective, and then took losses losing the objective...guess what? Their offensive capabilities have been blunted.

Ill spend a bit of time here composing an example. Lets say Fracture Road on Domination. For those that dont know what map that is, It is displayed here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107462&find=unread


So the Domination starts, ill use a dropship to go get some uplinks up high above "A". Because of the nature of the spot, the dropship has to be abandoned to thin air. Its a bare bones Gorgon that costs 27,000ISK. My Logi suit with several droplinks runs up about 20,000ISK. So within the opening minutes of the match, Ive already spent about 47,000ISK just getting the uplinks down.

Now lets say a minute later, a rival dropship lands people where my uplinks are, or an ADS destroys the main ones at the top and the spare ones on the pipe...my team no longer has the spawn advantages, and its going to cost me another 47,000ISK to put some more. Sometimes I do, most of the time i dont.

Alright, so i give up on planting uplinks up high, and I see if i can plant them around ground level. Scouts, vehicles, and random reds will destroy most of them. My 20,000ISK uplink suit is not made for combat, so when I run into any of the above i usually die. Sometimes ill get the suit back to the supply depot, other times I wont. Sometimes Ill use a bare bones LAV to plant some uplinks on the flank. If a tank, ADS, or AV catches me and destroys me, thats another 43,000ISK lost in 1 shot.

So If I try the drop ship for the uplinks twice and fail, on foot twice and fail, and by LAV twice and fail, its only about 6 deaths but its 218,000ISK in losses. And all i was trying to do is plant uplinks.

So what can I do after that? I decide to start forge gunning the ADS buzzing overhead, but then a enemy squad ambushes me before I can land on the kill shot on the ADS. Thats another 25,000ISK. I try to spawn in another point but the CRU is hacked before i can. Now theres no where else to spawn except in our MCC and primary installation. Weve been redlined, and I cant afford any more vehicles or uplink fits to break out.

So what to do at that point? Mostly defensive things. Man an undestroyed turret, grab a sniper, grab a codebreaker militia fit and try to sneak out to the complete other side of the map to hack things for WP.



People gotta understand. What do I get out of the game? Enjoyment, and ISK. I dont enjoy throwing myself in militia fits at entrenched squads. its futile. Even when Im just hanging back doing the bare minimum till the end of the game, im still having fun. ill pick a cheap fit with a laser rifle on it and practice it a bit in the background. Once Im close to or have already passed my tolerable limit of losses, i have zero motivation to take so much as another shot to my armor.

One way to fix this would be to increase salvage exponentially. If i was up against a mostly proto equipped squad, and there was a good chance a bunch of their stuff goes into the salvage pool, I would keep pushing till the end, cause getting salvage is a form of pay, and top tier salvage has worth.

Right now i calculate earnings of 250,000ISK per pub match on overage. So I keep my losses under that number. But with a massive salvage pool, Id be willing to go up to losses of 300,000ISK, and gamble on the fact that my salvage yield could exceed 50,000ISK value.

Sorry. But, I was in a "real" corp. And I got dismissed cause I voiced my opinion about the alliance we joined. I didn't like the the other corps, after having faced them and getting flaylocked to hell and back. (right after flaylock debut, when "people" would run fits with two flaylocks. again, one of those weapons for the lowest order of primate.) And stating that I refused to squad with any of them.
After recieving my "walking papers" I then started my own. The name of which is Latin, meaning "The Betrayed". I've had trust issues since. And i'm not one of those mindless drones that tries to join a "top corp".

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

One of the big drivers of this loser mentality is that CCP builds it right into the mechanics of their game in the form of their WP/ISK payouts, match win'loss payouts and especially their passive in-match sp charity(and don't forget their laughably clownish attenppt at a 'rubberband-proof' AFK mechanic). Then throw in the redline mechanics.

There's more, but i'll stop there.

You can blame the players that aren't sufficiently bloody-minded, but i blame CCP for cutting off real competition at the knees. Tbh, i've never heard a CCP employee address any of these issues which are the real drivers of player dynamics in this game.

it's called being on a team full of blueberries

people realize that pubs don't matter like FW and PC do

I have to agree with the 1st post and anarchide up there.

HTFU. This game is getting soft. I need to come back to show you guys the way the old pro's used to handle things.

This is the only game I know of where people go into a match with the intent of trying NOT to win. WHY THE UNHOLY HELL IS THAT?
I have gone into match's that started out really good. My team has the majority of null points (skirmish, my favorite mode) then part was through they just stop trying, they kind of just roll over and present themselves for mounting. Then while i'm trying to motivate them, give direction or tactical suggestions. I get derided, I catch flak for trying. I'm sorry, but I grew up in the era before they started handing out trophies for just showing up. We had to earn the trophies. You didn't when , guess what? The only thing you got was pizza after the game.
The lamest excuse I get during my DI inspired motivation speech's is "It's just a game." Football is just a game. But, you don't see the Raiders , the Bears, Steelers, Packers or the Vikings going out and NOT trying to kick ass. Baseball is just a game. But, you don't see any of the going out there and not trying to win. Hell, Monopoly is just a game, but I don't know of one person the at plays that GAME and doesn't try to own every property.
But yet, here on Dust it's ok to be Losers. So, what if there are Molon Labe players on the other team, so what if there are Contract Hunters, Opus Arcana, or any of the other "Hot" corps. They are just like you. Not all of them are "Top gun" players.
Just saying.

Yeah like they dont hide and cower in the corner on PC and FW -_- come on dude its an epidemic. These COD noobs are making all these other people have no choice but to sit back and get stomped and those that keep trying to win the match just lose the most, Its not just pubs they are doing this in anymore.

There has never been a reason to win except your own ego.


CCP doesn't incentivize or teach players to get better or be better at DUST 514.

Instead they dumb down the game and make it easy, drastically reduce TTK and install aim assists that track targets for you.


Fixing lag, FPS drops, Hit detection mechanics, Aiming mechanics, Physics, Collision Mechanics, Terrain stickyness, Invisible walls, Map construction...

Has never been something they have fixed even closely...


They just had to build and maintain a solid game to make it a success... Instead they have cut every corner and done what is "easy" and gone the "LAzy" route at every turn.

It's sad... but you get what you give.

All I know is Im having much fun in ambush because the name of the game is kill. But even blueberries mess that up.

Played dom in a squad today and within 5 mins I was pissed. No one dropped uplinks after first set destroyed. Same blues running into the same chokepoints already heavily guarded by reds. Long story short, no one tried it seemed.

I miss pre FF playerbase. The pubs werent exactly golden then but hell you could at least come across smart players with the will to win, even when the chips didnt fall in our favor.

So all I mainly do is run ambush. Objective games **** me off how incompetent the blues are. But they wanna ***** about qsyncs. We do that to lessen the morons on our team.