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Sclompton Face-Smasher
uptown456
76
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Posted - 2014.08.27 09:56:00 -
[91] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I specced into countersniping. When I'm feeling really froggy I do it with a forge gun, just for the extra special level of "f**k you" it implies.
As soon as snipers start polluting the killfeed I switch to my caldari LOLmando and proceed to start the executions.
The rail rifle discourages random slobs from interrupting my good deed of discouraging snipers from existing.
On a separate, hilarious note did you realize most snipers are pathetic? You can hit and kill most of them in their redline with a rail rifle. Because most of them are incompetent. You also see them run RIGHT BACK to the spot you just killed them on and you get to farm them.
Then they jump into a fatsuit and try to snipe in the same place again. This is the cue to get out the forge gun since you already have them locked.
I love the post man!!
Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder
Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
632
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Posted - 2014.08.27 09:58:00 -
[92] - Quote
Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: #1 yes that was my argument against that option noob.
#2 it wouldnt as they still have stupid range its just more to force them to snipe from INSIDE the "BURN ZONE" not way back in the REDLINE having a damn cup of what ever you redlineing SOBs drink.
#3 well im sick of snipers just sitting in the redline bodyshotting people and killing them in like 2 shots, gtfo of the redline and get some headshots! which is my argument for the dmg nerf but massive HS multiplier buff.. then that way only scrub snipers will whine that they cant bodyshot people to death while pros can and will reap skulls
Are you wearing tin foil for a suit or do you not know how to make mu;tiple suit for multiple engagments? how does having a different suit make it any easier to spend 15-20 seconds inside the redline to try find a sniper who might be deeper in the redline then 15-20 seconds can allow.. granted all the having to run up hills with the poor terain mapping causeing difficulty in some favorite sniper locations
Have a fit with Kin Cats and a ScR or RR if you don't want to counter snipe and want to rush the red without having to run too far in and also there are these things called Range Amplifiers and Precision mods... Do you have any skills in eWar at all there L33t?[/quote] advanced ewar but it means nothing unless you got cal scout with their superior passive tacnet range, but my primary function is running logistics and pushing the team forward and holding them up, i dont got time to go hunting every redliner with a thales in a bricked proto logi/commando suit[/quote]
See you have your role and all but if that Thales sniper is running the game your in as an enemy it would only be logical for you yourself or a squad member or even a corp member to switch your role for a minute and use one of the options already stated in the post to get rid of him/her and make them lose a precious weapon that they can only get from salvage and have them feel like s**t for staying in one spot and losing it.[/quote]
ccp should do a mini event to see how meny people kill/get killed while wielding sniper rifles.. that may root out a few thousand thales from the community :P
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Sclompton Face-Smasher
uptown456
76
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: #1 yes that was my argument against that option noob.
#2 it wouldnt as they still have stupid range its just more to force them to snipe from INSIDE the "BURN ZONE" not way back in the REDLINE having a damn cup of what ever you redlineing SOBs drink.
#3 well im sick of snipers just sitting in the redline bodyshotting people and killing them in like 2 shots, gtfo of the redline and get some headshots! which is my argument for the dmg nerf but massive HS multiplier buff.. then that way only scrub snipers will whine that they cant bodyshot people to death while pros can and will reap skulls
Are you wearing tin foil for a suit or do you not know how to make mu;tiple suit for multiple engagments? how does having a different suit make it any easier to spend 15-20 seconds inside the redline to try find a sniper who might be deeper in the redline then 15-20 seconds can allow.. granted all the having to run up hills with the poor terain mapping causeing difficulty in some favorite sniper locations Have a fit with Kin Cats and a ScR or RR if you don't want to counter snipe and want to rush the red without having to run too far in and also there are these things called Range Amplifiers and Precision mods... Do you have any skills in eWar at all there L33t? advanced ewar but it means nothing unless you got cal scout with their superior passive tacnet range, but my primary function is running logistics and pushing the team forward and holding them up, i dont got time to go hunting every redliner with a thales in a bricked proto logi/commando suit[/quote]
See you have your role and all but if that Thales sniper is running the game your in as an enemy it would only be logical for you yourself or a squad member or even a corp member to switch your role for a minute and use one of the options already stated in the post to get rid of him/her and make them lose a precious weapon that they can only get from salvage and have them feel like s**t for staying in one spot and losing it.[/quote]
ccp should do a mini event to see how meny people kill/get killed while wielding sniper rifles.. that may root out a few thousand thales from the community :P[/quote]
I'm all for killing the thales as I only have 3 or 5 left myself and would be glad to shorten the herd that can use them against myself. (I'm a solo player so I generally stopped caring for all blueberrys I have no history with.)
Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder
Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2329
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
If you dont want to run your expensive fit into the redline make a cheap rifle/nade/MD fit and fly a disposable militia derpship into the redline. Abandon ship, (ive had them crash on my targets before) and proceed to gun them down.
Countersniping with a high slot +damage load with a STD sniper rifle is really all it takes because to be effective snipers have to fit gank over tank. So unless they're in sentinel (militia forge gun fixes this trend in a hurry) two shots kills pretty much any of them. |
Mregomies
Beer For Evil Mercs
256
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tonight, after refreshing break, I'll spam some links and hives to the burnzone and head back to redline or start collect some WP with repper and needle. dunno... maybe I'll swarmilk some ADS. my goal is to break that 40mil. SP tonight.
Suomi, Finland, PERKELE!
Logibro
Logibro2
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2331
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
As a side note: When you kill a sniper in a redline perch check his name on the killfeed. Theres more than a few who will quit a match id you kill them immediately.
This unfortunately frees up a slot for someone useful on the enemy team. |
Sclompton Face-Smasher
uptown456
76
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:14:00 -
[97] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:If you dont want to run your expensive fit into the redline make a cheap rifle/nade/MD fit and fly a disposable militia derpship into the redline. Abandon ship, (ive had them crash on my targets before) and proceed to gun them down.
Countersniping with a high slot +damage load with a STD sniper rifle is really all it takes because to be effective snipers have to fit gank over tank. So unless they're in sentinel (militia forge gun fixes this trend in a hurry) two shots kills pretty much any of them.
I have 23 thales that I cannot use and a proto dropsuit to mount them on for killing redline sissies. The covenant (std bpo) or dren does the job well
I have a covenant srand just throw them on a miltia minnie light suit (haven't played for months so I didn't see the new light suits) and d-mod it it out while rushing and pecking said thale if I can't kill them to throw them off their game.
Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder
Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
406
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:45:00 -
[98] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote: currently sniping is a 0 risk endevour vs big rewards.. this should not be the case.. snipers should have risk, because as it stands they have non
Could you please be more specific concerning your claim that sniping is "0 risk endevour vs big rewards". What big rewards? The only WP snipers get is from kills, and you get significantly less ISK per battle than you would by playing some other role (which is perfectly all right since snipers also tend to die less). The only thing sniping is good for in that aspect is padding your KDR which is, let's be honest, completely irrelevant.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
962
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:14:00 -
[99] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I specced into countersniping. When I'm feeling really froggy I do it with a forge gun, just for the extra special level of "f**k you" it implies.
As soon as snipers start polluting the killfeed I switch to my caldari LOLmando and proceed to start the executions.
The rail rifle discourages random slobs from interrupting my good deed of discouraging snipers from existing.
On a separate, hilarious note did you realize most snipers are pathetic? You can hit and kill most of them in their redline with a rail rifle. Because most of them are incompetent. You also see them run RIGHT BACK to the spot you just killed them on and you get to farm them.
Then they jump into a fatsuit and try to snipe in the same place again. This is the cue to get out the forge gun since you already have them locked. i do like the Forgegun F-U ness.. and i always wondered why the scrubbiest snipers go back to the same location (probably best vantage point for kills?) but i have come across experienced redliners who know to bug out when they have been rumbled. i did just recently have the idea of downloading the known/used maps and putting markers where confirmed sniper locations are but i havnt seen any which also have the redline indicators on them so it would leave a degree of inaccuracy for the maps
Noted: He complains about snipers having No risk, then lauds over how easy it is to kill snipers. Evidence contained.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
636
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I specced into countersniping. When I'm feeling really froggy I do it with a forge gun, just for the extra special level of "f**k you" it implies.
As soon as snipers start polluting the killfeed I switch to my caldari LOLmando and proceed to start the executions.
The rail rifle discourages random slobs from interrupting my good deed of discouraging snipers from existing.
On a separate, hilarious note did you realize most snipers are pathetic? You can hit and kill most of them in their redline with a rail rifle. Because most of them are incompetent. You also see them run RIGHT BACK to the spot you just killed them on and you get to farm them.
Then they jump into a fatsuit and try to snipe in the same place again. This is the cue to get out the forge gun since you already have them locked. i do like the Forgegun F-U ness.. and i always wondered why the scrubbiest snipers go back to the same location (probably best vantage point for kills?) but i have come across experienced redliners who know to bug out when they have been rumbled. i did just recently have the idea of downloading the known/used maps and putting markers where confirmed sniper locations are but i havnt seen any which also have the redline indicators on them so it would leave a degree of inaccuracy for the maps Noted: He complains about snipers having No risk, then lauds over how easy it is to kill snipers. Evidence contained. no i was mearly commenting on how i enjoy that forgegun OHKs and denys revival
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2334
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Posted - 2014.08.27 12:09:00 -
[101] - Quote
I am treating this thread as a troll thread because the OP basically denies permission fora dissenting opinion. It is a thread that basically says "I dislike your play method therefore you must be nerfed. These are your options that are allowed for the nerf."
Its like entering a debate competition and telling the other team "you have to agree with my premise and objective, only the specific results Im willing to accept are allowable arguments."
This is why I consider this thread trollbait and a horrible badpost.
I also consider predicating an argument about things being OP and ignoring known hard counters to be flawed.
Those counters are forge/sniper/laser rifle/ADS that dont involve a suicide clone. Predicating an argument on a refusal to spec into a hard counter and employ it is inexcusably lazy.
Ever wonder why forge guns still can slam infantry? One very good reason is they are one of the only weapons that can match and hit a sniper deep in the redline.
Laser rifles will burn 90% of viable sniper fits unless they are in the deepest redline. And since snipers have to hold still you can heat the beam and sweep it onto their heads. Its about as effective as licking someone's ear with a shotgun. |
Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
135
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:27:00 -
[102] - Quote
The OP is straight up trolling with this thread.
It is devoid of content and merit beyond his contradictions & tears.
Please cry baby tell us how the bad sniper man hurt you!
lol guess you are real butt hurt by the experience.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5811
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:36:00 -
[103] - Quote
I still support having no redline, but making the MCC shoot any enemy infantry who get too close.
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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Mike De Luca
STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME
273
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:23:00 -
[104] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I still support having no redline, but making the MCC shoot any enemy infantry who get too close. I prefer the instant death idea, no time wasted that way.
what i think of when charging fg
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Guybrush Threeps
K-A-O-S theory
29
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Posted - 2014.08.27 17:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
OP, your entire premise is wrong, thus your solutions are... well dumb. |
Thokk Nightshade
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
468
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Posted - 2014.08.27 21:33:00 -
[106] - Quote
jace silencerww wrote:Thokk Nightshade wrote:I just started to get back into Sniping after Charlie (I ran Sniper exclusively from open beta to 1.6 or 1.7, don't remember anymore). Here's my take on your 3 "options"
What your suggestions are doing are just making the sniper a non-viable option, which I'm guessing is what you are aiming for.
1. This I don't really have an issue with as long as we can figure out a way for someone to deploy without getting shot in the face 3 seconds after spawning in.
2. Already accomplished. With the new reticules, I don't really seem to have a problem hitting bodies. However, Head Shots are damn neared impossible. I'm running a Charge and at about 200 meters, it becomes a guessing game as to where the head is at. Anything farther and I just accept the fact it is going to be all body shots with a couple lucky hits. Past 300, I'm starting to settle in and find the sweet spot but it still isn't perfect by any means
3. No. I can shoot a Sentinel 4 or 5 times with a Charge Sniper rifle and not kill them because while I'm reloading, they are replenishing their shields and armor. With the aforementioned #2, headshots are not as automatic as before.
My counter-proposal: Leave the current alpha/optimal damage where they are at and give a 200% increase to Headshot damage. If a charge is doing 340 (approx with damage mods), it should do 340+340+340 = 1020 damage for a Headshot. That will kill most anything short of sentinel, which, I can accept taking 2 Headshots to kill.
However, I do believe something needs to be done with the scope. Make the peep in the middle slightly smaller for a more accurate lineup and give it a 25-50% zoom. This will make it easier for people to get those headshots that you are asking for.
OR, as SymbioticForks suggested, use this reticule on the "frontline" sniper rifles and go back to the old scope for the Charge and Thales. Personally, I don't understand why it would be so difficult, since both scopes are built, to let the individual choose which scope to use. Because, like I said, I'm not having a real problem landing shots with this scope (in fact, it may be just a touch easier), but Headshots are nigh impossible. So if I want to go support and just work on finishing people off or wearing them down to make it easier for my teammates, I can choose to use the new scope. If I want to alpha dog it and go for 1 shot 1 kill, I can use the old scope which seems to be more user friendly in regards to headshots.
On, and before anyone gets on their "GitGud TryHard" podium, I might not be the most well known sniper but I don't redline. I have actually found that getting in close with rail rifles, sentinels, etc have given me a new perspective which helps when I am picking out sniping nests. On some of the Dom/Skirm maps, I often find myself closer to the middle of the map in some little covey hole than I am to the redline. On Ambush, I am going to stick on the outskirts away from the masses because, well, duh, but it's far enough from the redline where anyone can walk over to me and, if they find me, can kill me.
340 with a 200% headshot is 640. to get 1020 it is 300%. fyi max damage you can do (with the right set up & skills) to shield on a dropsuit non headshot with the charge is 366 & thale is 404. to armor with a charge is 480 & thale is 530. headshots to shields are 175% and armor is 195%. but here is food for thought so if a scout has 300 shield 75 armor you can kill him in 1 shot with the charge. he is why- 300 of the 366 is taken by shields but the 66 gets turned back to the normal so it is 73 then the armor damage bonus gets added so turns into 80 meaning dead scout. but if he had 85 armor he would live.
I was an English Major and not a math major for a reason.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
649
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Posted - 2014.08.27 21:44:00 -
[107] - Quote
Temba Fusrodah wrote:The OP is straight up trolling with this thread.
It is devoid of content and merit beyond his contradictions & tears.
Please cry baby tell us how the bad sniper man hurt you!
lol guess you are real butt hurt by the experience. actually it was not a troll thread i was just seeing what snipers thought but then it got derailed by the trolls.. thus it became a troll thread which is still going days later
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2342
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Posted - 2014.08.27 21:49:00 -
[108] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Temba Fusrodah wrote:The OP is straight up trolling with this thread.
It is devoid of content and merit beyond his contradictions & tears.
Please cry baby tell us how the bad sniper man hurt you!
lol guess you are real butt hurt by the experience. actually it was not a troll thread i was just seeing what snipers thought but then it got derailed by the trolls.. thus it became a troll thread which is still going days later
Come up with a better premise than your original post if you want to have a real discussion. This was a flagrant attempt to lead everyone around by the nose, Something this community is notoriously nasty about.
Not everyone agrees with you and your "three options" premise was crap to begin with. The thread was trollbait, and you should have expected nothing less. |
Symbioticforks
Pure Evil.
736
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Posted - 2014.08.27 23:18:00 -
[109] - Quote
Guybrush Threeps wrote:OP, your entire premise is wrong, thus your solutions are... well dumb.
This.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
936
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Posted - 2014.08.27 23:55:00 -
[110] - Quote
for the 801st time.
the redline isnt the problem, map size is. the maps are too small and the redline is too close to the action. in battlefield the redline is far from any action and generally in the middle of nowhere that doesnt offer any advantage to sitting in it. the maps are large enough that the redline can be there and provide a boundary for spawns and vehicle spawns but far enough away and obscured by terrain to where it isnt useful to camp.
maps just need to be resized or redrawn in order to adress this. The redline shoudnt include hills that over look objectives and it shouldnt be right next to objectives where i can go out of bounds on the opposing team while im within 20m of the objectives. thats too close.
the rest of the problems with the sniper stem from terrible zoom, rendering issues at long range, low damage, sightlines and sensitivity issues with panning left and right. apparently now the reticule is broken since its been changed but thats not important. idk if its just the left and right sensitivity or lag maybe but its nearly impossible to get headshots on moving targets at 400m even with the old reticule because of how jumpy the aim is, you either go to far or not enough and leading targets doesnt work. add in low zoom where the old reticule is larger than what im aiming at and low damage and rendering issues where they could be behind an invisible unrendered wall and you get the current snipers.
unless someones standing perfectly still and you get lucky your not killing anyone. then you have sightlines within the game area that arent as good as the sightlines from the redline. our normal maps usually happen in a bowl with redline being highground providing better overwatch and more targets. theres just never been any really good spots to target from within the redline. theres a couple of decent ones spread out among the maps but none are great so you have noobs who sit in the redline.
its not hard to have a flawless game and get some kills and stay hidden outside of the redline, its just not very fun because your gonna be sitting in weird spots that dont give you much to shoot at unless people are slipping up.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
964
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Posted - 2014.08.28 02:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:for the 801st time.
the redline isnt the problem, map size is. the maps are too small and the redline is too close to the action. in battlefield the redline is far from any action and generally in the middle of nowhere that doesnt offer any advantage to sitting in it. the maps are large enough that the redline can be there and provide a boundary for spawns and vehicle spawns but far enough away and obscured by terrain to where it isnt useful to camp.
maps just need to be resized or redrawn in order to adress this. The redline shoudnt include hills that over look objectives and it shouldnt be right next to objectives where i can go out of bounds on the opposing team while im within 20m of the objectives. thats too close.
the rest of the problems with the sniper stem from terrible zoom, rendering issues at long range, low damage, sightlines and sensitivity issues with panning left and right. apparently now the reticule is broken since its been changed but thats not important. idk if its just the left and right sensitivity or lag maybe but its nearly impossible to get headshots on moving targets at 400m even with the old reticule because of how jumpy the aim is, you either go to far or not enough and leading targets doesnt work. add in low zoom where the old reticule is larger than what im aiming at and low damage and rendering issues where they could be behind an invisible unrendered wall and you get the current snipers.
unless someones standing perfectly still and you get lucky your not killing anyone. then you have sightlines within the game area that arent as good as the sightlines from the redline. our normal maps usually happen in a bowl with redline being highground providing better overwatch and more targets. theres just never been any really good spots to target from within the redline. theres a couple of decent ones spread out among the maps but none are great so you have noobs who sit in the redline.
its not hard to have a flawless game and get some kills and stay hidden outside of the redline, its just not very fun because your gonna be sitting in weird spots that dont give you much to shoot at unless people are slipping up.
The maps ARE bigger, we just never got to using even half the space available. They never opened them up because they couldn't optimize enough of the gameplay to increase player count per match.
We currently play on about 1/6-1/9 the actual map in every game.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1067
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Posted - 2014.08.28 03:12:00 -
[112] - Quote
I think you need to look up the meaning of "open question".
Because, that's why.
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Gemini Cuspid
123
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Posted - 2014.08.28 04:55:00 -
[113] - Quote
I'm going to tweak my answer a bit and simply say:
the question posed by the OP wasn't very open and missed entirely the idea of the "sniper". I'm going to go even a bit further. In my last game I positioned myself to get the most kills. That's how it works generally for me. A player using Nova Knives spent the whole match after dying several times to me to simply find and kill me however possible and was more than pleased to send a message with a smiley emoticon.
Now this struck me as weird because I may not be in a corp but the idea in matches should be "to win". Carrying out a blood vendetta on a sniper as your sole kill in the game seemed pretty petty to me but I bring it up as a point I'm about to make. Your weapon of choice could be any of the items in the game but 1 of the 2 main goals in any match is "kill the other side more often than they kill you".
For sniper users, this same rule applies as much as a shotgun user, RR, combat rifler or anything else. In some matches a python can be scarier than a sniper, in others a heavy and in some a maddy. Complaining about snipers and how their style of play doesn't present them with as much risk misses the point: that style of play does allow some to yield the most kills and incur the least deaths. It's no less shameless than a shotgunner coming from behind and shooting you or a scout, cloaked running around to knife you with stealth. Even something as big as a Maddy isn't going to be showy just so that you can prepare enough proximity mines/packed AV's to blow it out of the sky. No the maddy is coming in and will want to run/shoot you down and as many as you as possible but once they see the odds aren't in their favor they'll flee like a chicken.
Point is these tactics have a purpose and while may seem shameless it is really in line with what works best. Not every matches goal will be to win for some; others just want points to rack up and others exp and then there;s the KDR too. Complaining about snipers doing it from the redline is no different than a heavy watching a corner to ambush you or taking a shotgun to the back. We use these tactics because it works. Heavies aren't going to stay in the wide open spaces anymore than a scout will. Likewise a Sniper won't make themselves an easy target unless you feel its needed.
You don't have to agree with anything I said but it's the fact that it's how we play; it's the style that allows us to achieve the goal of most damage and risk to the other side without hurting our own team. |
Temba Fusrodah
Ganksters Inc Drake Ashigaru
136
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Posted - 2014.08.28 06:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
If you find yourself in a fair fight it's because you are doing something wrong!
Kill the other poor SOB more then he can kill you. With a few quick head shots p iss off the other guys and have them hunting your stealthy sniper nest in anger instead of shooting your team mates and possibly winning the match. While they are hunting down the one sniper that butt hurt them they'll lose the match.
Killing targets since the beta days! A DUST514 Original Gankster!
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