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[Discussion: Ion Pistol] Change Ion Pistol firing mode to automatic.

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Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6847	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:00:00 - [1] - Quote You heard me. I've used this gun since it first came out, it's the only Gallente Sidearm so I have no choice. This weapon is in dire need of salvation, it's arguably the worst weapon in the game right beside the Flaylock. I feel that this change, if possible, would put the Ion Pistol where it needs to be. For now let's say we had the same damage, same incredibly short range but with 550 RPM ( Magsec SMG fires at 666.67, I'm not joking) and same 12 round clip. This would put the Ion Pistol at a high amount of DPS without allowing it to be a "No SKill" weapon, it would also allow the Ion Pistol to actually be Viable. More Importantly it would make the Ion Pistol act like a Gallente Weapon Here are the Stats for my Proposed Ion Pistol using the Creodron Ion Pistol as reference: Meta Level8 Damage 55 Rate of Fire 550 RPM DPS 504.16 Clip Size 12 Ammo72 Reload Time2.533 Optimal Range 22 Effective Range42m Yes, I know that's a pretty high DPS, but looks at it's small range, and with the accuracy and recoil good luck hitting all your shots in a CQC environment. Of course these numbers aren't final and can be tweaked here and there for fine tuning purposes. So, what do you guys think? see you space cowboy...
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15543	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:19:00 - [2] - Quote Do note that although the DPS is very high under this proposal, the clip lasts barely more than a second. The damage per clip is 660, which is actually pretty low. In a lot of cases it'll take two clips to down people, and in some it'll take three. With that in mind, I actually don't really like this idea. It's not really much stronger except for splatting lightly tanked suits (which was already the only thing it could seriously do). I would prefer to have the charge shot overheat... Reworked, and the other stats like damage, fire rate and clip size to be looked at as well. A charge shot pistol is actually pretty cool, IMO. Unfortunately the instant overheat makes it of dubious practical value. EDIT: Also, it's a CQC weapon, but the hipfire spread is so wide you can miss a target at 8m. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1562	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:26:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Do note that although the DPS is very high under this proposal, the clip lasts barely more than a second. The damage per clip is 660, which is actually pretty low. In a lot of cases it'll take two clips to down people, and in some it'll take three. With that in mind, I actually don't really like this idea. It's not really much stronger except for splatting lightly tanked suits (which was already the only thing it could seriously do). I would prefer to have the charge shot overheat... Reworked, and the other stats like damage, fire rate and clip size to be looked at as well. A charge shot pistol is actually pretty cool, IMO. Unfortunately the instant overheat makes it of dubious practical value. EDIT: Also, it's a CQC weapon, but the hipfire spread is so wide you can miss a target at 8m. I agree. I really feel like this gun's dps is its largest issue with its instant overheat charge shot coming in a close second. Increasing the damage per shot would deal with both of these issues though. Not only would the weapon's DPS increase but the charge shot would become much more deadly. The only real issue with increasing the per shot damage is that it may make the weapon OP if not done carfully. I suggest a small bump to per shot damage 5%. If that doesn't make it viable bump it up by 2% more. Continue with 1% bumps as needed until gun is usable. Fun > Realism
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6847	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:31:00 - [4] - Quote That's all fine. I just want my Ion Pistol to be viable! Ok, so a small damage buff instead. I wouldn't mind at all, keep in mind the Viziam Scrambler pistol actually gets over 100 dmg per shot with max skills and I'm sure its not OP in anyway. So mobius, I do not think you have to be too careful with it being OP, you have a huge range to play with, especially with it's small range. see you space cowboy...
Zindorak 1.U.P 214	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:03:00 - [5] - Quote I wouldn't mind a buff to the ion pistol. However i want the ScP to be stronger Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1794	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:16:00 - [6] - Quote Id prefer removing overheat, and making the charge shot cost extra ammo (6 at max charge) "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 213	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:17:00 - [7] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: You heard me. I've used this gun since it first came out, it's the only Gallente Sidearm so I have no choice. This weapon is in dire need of salvation, it's arguably the worst weapon in the game right beside the Flaylock. I feel that this change, if possible, would put the Ion Pistol where it needs to be. For now let's say we had the same damage, same incredibly short range but with 550 RPM ( Magsec SMG fires at 666.67, I'm not joking) and same 12 round clip. This would put the Ion Pistol at a high amount of DPS without allowing it to be a "No SKill" weapon, it would also allow the Ion Pistol to actually be Viable. More Importantly it would make the Ion Pistol act like a Gallente Weapon Here are the Stats for my Proposed Ion Pistol using the Creodron Ion Pistol as reference: Meta Level8 Damage 55 Rate of Fire 550 RPM DPS 504.16 Clip Size 12 Ammo72 Reload Time2.533 Optimal Range 22 Effective Range42m Yes, I know that's a pretty high DPS, but looks at it's small range, and with the accuracy and recoil good luck hitting all your shots in a CQC environment. Of course these numbers aren't final and can be tweaked here and there for fine tuning purposes. So, what do you guys think? looks interesting.. id like to see burst varients of ion and scrambler pistols but also ScR style fireing where you can do a charged shot but a few sucessive shots before it overheats.. that will fix the ion for sure and bring some fun and power back to pistols Logibro in training. Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 811	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:34:00 - [8] - Quote I think it just needs a change to the overheat on every charge shot. You don't even need to charge the thing more than half to have it overheat. That's just stupid. What kind of advanced military would design something that overheats that easily. Everything else is ok. Definitely shouldn't fire automatically. Perhaps a small damage buff. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 164	Posted - 2014.08.01 17:50:00 - [9] - Quote Just give the ion pistol more range when firing a charged shot. Since there are no tactical or breach variations it can be used as a breach pistol or tactical pistol depending on the situation.
headbust SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 112	Posted - 2014.08.01 19:21:00 - [10] - Quote i would like to see a large damage buff as said earlier scp does little over 100 at proto max and with its range that is pretty good so with the ion pistols short range (i mean really short range) it should do a little more than that. a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back

Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3759	Posted - 2014.08.01 21:53:00 - [11] - Quote I think dispersion is the key here. Giving it tighter hipfire could fix it... "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
MINA Longstrike 1101	Posted - 2014.08.01 22:00:00 - [12] - Quote The only pistol that should even be semi-auto is a minmatar machine pistol. If you want automatic weaponry you want a SMG. Pistols are single or burst fire. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6852	Posted - 2014.08.01 22:40:00 - [13] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: The only pistol that should even be semi-auto is a minmatar machine pistol. If you want automatic weaponry you want a SMG. Pistols are single or burst fire. automatic pistols exist in the real world btw see you space cowboy...
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1563	Posted - 2014.08.02 00:00:00 - [14] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: That's all fine. I just want my Ion Pistol to be viable! Ok, so a small damage buff instead. I wouldn't mind at all, keep in mind the Viziam Scrambler pistol actually gets over 100 dmg per shot with max skills and I'm sure its not OP in anyway. So mobius, I do not think you have to be too careful with it being OP, you have a huge range to play with, especially with it's small range. That is a fair assessment Kirk. Since it has the smallest range of the pistols it should also have the highest DPS. This calls for a spread sheet! I will follow up with one in my next post. Fun > Realism
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1564	Posted - 2014.08.02 00:14:00 - [15] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: The only pistol that should even be semi-auto is a minmatar machine pistol. If you want automatic weaponry you want a SMG. Pistols are single or burst fire. I couldn't disagree more. First off all the pistols we have are semi-automatics. There are no revolvers or single action pistols in dust since the weapons do not need to be manually cycled (cocked) after each shot, they do this automatically as part of the firing process. In fact all the pistols as they currently stand are semi-automatic with the exception of the Bolt Pistol which is fully-automatic (albeit with a very slow rate of fire for a weapon of this type). A fully automatic pistol would fit the bill for a minmatar weapon (though a burst fire handgun like the Beretta 93R would make more sense) but totally fits the Gallente docterine as well. Sorry, I know this does not include a spreadsheet as promised I just couldn't let this go. I will include the comparison spreadsheet in the next post. Fun > Realism
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2639	Posted - 2014.08.02 00:25:00 - [16] - Quote I'm so conflicted. I love the charge mechanic, but on the other hand I want the pistol to be viable... My love of the charge mechanic is too great for me to support getting rid of it. Could a simple damage buff coupled with a slightly less crippling heat build up work? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Matticus Monk OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2270	Posted - 2014.08.02 01:39:00 - [17] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: looks interesting.. id like to see burst varients of ion and scrambler pistols but also ScR style fireing where you can do a charged shot but a few sucessive shots before it overheats.. that will fix the ion for sure and bring some fun and power back to pistols The burst variant of the ScP exists. It is the CAR-9 Burst and it's an advanced variant. It has the worst dispersion of the ScP's by a large margin, so much that aiming down sights is practically a requirement. It's brutal in the right hands. Double posting like a Kaiser. Embracing the death, at Llast.
BL4CKST4R LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 2858	Posted - 2014.08.02 01:42:00 - [18] - Quote Ion pistol is good to finish off heavies. Makes it easier to shame them in their fotm. Still sucks ass tthouh. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 2859	Posted - 2014.08.02 01:50:00 - [19] - Quote Db post supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 395	Posted - 2014.08.02 02:16:00 - [20] - Quote I use the ion pistol constantly and i have no issues with it. it does fine on ym gallente scout. but on my gall assault. ehehehehe. . it keeps the shotgun scouts away and a charge round is good as a follow up from 2-3 rapid fire shots. nothing like plowing 4 rounds into a heavy then deliving a nasty charge shot punch to his head. also good for shooting snipers in the back of the head with. I swear the creo ion pistol charge damage is close to 550 or something. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6854	Posted - 2014.08.02 02:23:00 - [21] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: I use the ion pistol constantly and i have no issues with it. it does fine on ym gallente scout. but on my gall assault. ehehehehe. . it keeps the shotgun scouts away and a charge round is good as a follow up from 2-3 rapid fire shots. nothing like plowing 4 rounds into a heavy then deliving a nasty charge shot punch to his head. also good for shooting snipers in the back of the head with. I swear the creo ion pistol charge damage is close to 550 or something. Eugh, One of these guys again. You have to be pretty terrible at this game for you to be reduced to the Ion Pistols Level. Here's a challenge, use a Scrambler Pistol and get back to me. In fact, use a Basic Scrambler Pistol compared to the Creodron and get back to me. I swear there's always a person that says somethings not underpowered when it sucks. Just like the people that said the plasma cannon was okay when I was completely terrible at it's job. scoffs plebs, what can you do about them? see you space cowboy...
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1567	Posted - 2014.08.02 06:49:00 - [22] - Quote Okay here is what I have come up with. Pistol Comparison Chart (Graphs Included) To start out I noticed that the Flaylock had by far the lowest total damage per mag potential. The Bolt Pistol was hugely overpowered DPS wise especially considering the fact that it has the longest range of the pistols. By contrast, the Ion Pistol had by far the lowest DPS. This means that the longest range weapon had the best damage dealing potential while the sortest range weapon had the least. Given the fact that I recently spent weeks trying to convice the Devs that this is the reverse of where the weapons should be (See Balancing Assault Rifles Bravo Hotfix) it was clearly time for some major tinkering. The current, and long time, star among the pistols is the Scrambler. It does solid damage and is able to take out most targets in a single mag even without its massive head shot bonus. As such I took its stats (DPS, and Damage per Mag) as my baseline and modified all the other weapons to be in the same ball park keeping in mind my goal of an inverse relationship between damage and range. Since the Flaylock's per. mag damage was so low I increased its magazine capacity by a single round. The flaylock's RoF was also buffed bringing its DPS into line with the scrambler pistol while slightly lower than the other weapons because of its AoE advantage. Even though the scrambler is decent I increased the RoF by a hair because it should have more DPS potential than the Flaylock since it is harder to use and has only marginally better range. The Bolt Pistol took at major hit to both RoF and Per shot damage. While it still has the second largest damage per shot it now has a slightly lower DPS than the other weapons. The Ion pistol got a significant bump in its DPS, a small bump in RoF and a single round decrease in its ammo capacity. This gives the Ion Pistol the highest DPS, the lowest Range, and an average total damage per magazine. Final Analysis of Changes Made: I like the current proposed balance of damage per magazine as well as the (albeit small) inverse damage to range relationship. I am a bit concerned that the Flaylock can do about 10 more damage per magazine but I don't think this is a big deal since other weapons have more range (bolt pistol) extra headshot damage (scrambler) and a charge shot for extra damage (Ion Pistol). These abilities I think should be kept in their current state since it gives the weapons individual flavor which would be severely lacking otherwise. Fun > Realism
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6855	Posted - 2014.08.02 07:01:00 - [23] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: This means that the longest range weapon had the best damage dealing potential while the sortest range weapon had the least. I swear to you they live by this rule. CCP doesn't understand that CQC weapons should be good at CQC while Long Range weapons shouldn't be as good as the CQC weapons. This statement sums up DUST 514 in a nutshell. All in all Great Stuff Mobius! I hope CCP takes a look at this but I still feel like the Charge for the Ion Pistol should be reevaluated. Maybe overheats in two shots? After all, it is the "coup de grace" so to say of the Ion Pistol, and it's the most detrimental thing to use the pistol for. see you space cowboy...
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1572	Posted - 2014.08.02 21:13:00 - [24] - Quote /hold up picture of vindictive eyes and bows down "Logibo, Patron Saint of Logistics, Distributor of Nanites, and master of the look; I invoke you!" /creates elaborate spread sheet with many nicely colored graphs and bows down "Rattati, communicator, bearer of hot-fixes, and lover of evidence based reasoning; I invoke you!" "Oh blue tagged lords of the DUST514 forums it would greatly please us lowly, but strangely opinionated, consumers of your product to have you grace this thread with your presences; if only to indicate that you have noted our comments for future digestion in your great minds. It would please us greatly. So say we all!" Fun > Realism

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8825	Posted - 2014.08.02 21:25:00 - [25] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: /hold up picture of vindictive eyes and bows down "Logibo, Patron Saint of Logistics, Distributor of Nanites, and master of the look; I invoke you!" /creates elaborate spread sheet with many nicely colored graphs and bows down "Rattati, communicator, bearer of hot-fixes, and lover of evidence based reasoning; I invoke you!" "Oh blue tagged lords of the DUST514 forums it would greatly please us lowly, but strangely opinionated, consumers of your product to have you grace this thread with your presences; if only to indicate that you have noted our comments for future digestion in your great minds. It would please us greatly. So say we all!" /me emerges from a cloud of nanites I have looked upon thee and found your information of interest to our cause in the near future. Hold steady, for the time that balance is restored to the sidearm is nearly upon us; and you may be of assistance to us in this mission. Go forth and rep. May you guide the nanites. /me disappears back into the cloud of nanites CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

MINA Longstrike 1102	Posted - 2014.08.02 21:28:00 - [26] - Quote Did you account for the bolt pistol spooling between every shot? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1573	Posted - 2014.08.02 21:51:00 - [27] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Did you account for the bolt pistol spooling between every shot? No and that is a good point. I will re-evaluate and alter the spreadsheet tonight as needed. Fun > Realism
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1574	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:02:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: /me emerges from a cloud of nanites [img]https://i.imgur.com/NMlDr3d.jpg[/img] I have looked upon thee and found your information of interest to our cause in the near future. Hold steady, for the time that balance is restored to the sidearm is nearly upon us; and you may be of assistance to us in this mission. Go forth and rep. May the nanites guide you. /me disappears back into the cloud of nanites /breaks open a Ishukone Nanohive pouring its contents into a Tritanium bowl and setting them abaze "Thank you for your response oh bringer of support, we shale refine this topic taking into consideration MINA's comment and any other that is deemed worthy of merit." /pours ashes of burnt nanites over himself completing the right of cleansing, thankful that he did not have to escalate the initial rite of summoning with the "Dance of the Nanite" or the "Praise Be the Lord of Data Driven Change Script" Fun > Realism
Jathniel G I A N T 1128	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:26:00 - [29] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: You heard me. I've used this gun since it first came out, it's the only Gallente Sidearm so I have no choice. This weapon is in dire need of salvation, it's arguably the worst weapon in the game right beside the Flaylock. I feel that this change, if possible, would put the Ion Pistol where it needs to be. For now let's say we had the same damage, same incredibly short range but with 550 RPM ( Magsec SMG fires at 666.67, I'm not joking) and same 12 round clip. This would put the Ion Pistol at a high amount of DPS without allowing it to be a "No SKill" weapon, it would also allow the Ion Pistol to actually be Viable. More Importantly it would make the Ion Pistol act like a Gallente Weapon Here are the Stats for my Proposed Ion Pistol using the Creodron Ion Pistol as reference: Meta Level8 Damage 55 Rate of Fire 550 RPM DPS 504.16 Clip Size 12 Ammo72 Reload Time2.533 Optimal Range 22 Effective Range42m Yes, I know that's a pretty high DPS, but looks at it's small range, and with the accuracy and recoil good luck hitting all your shots in a CQC environment. Of course these numbers aren't final and can be tweaked here and there for fine tuning purposes. So, what do you guys think? All I would do is increase that clip size to 18 or 24, just to increase the damage per clip to a suitable level. This proposal is completely sound. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2014.08.02 23:34:00 - [30] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: looks interesting.. id like to see burst varients of ion and scrambler pistols but also ScR style fireing where you can do a charged shot but a few sucessive shots before it overheats.. that will fix the ion for sure and bring some fun and power back to pistols The burst variant of the ScP exists. It is the CAR-9 Burst and it's an advanced variant. It has the worst dispersion of the ScP's by a large margin, so much that aiming down sights is practically a requirement. It's brutal in the right hands. Yes and loads of fun no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil



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