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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1562
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Posted - 2014.08.01 14:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Do note that although the DPS is very high under this proposal, the clip lasts barely more than a second. The damage per clip is 660, which is actually pretty low. In a lot of cases it'll take two clips to down people, and in some it'll take three.
With that in mind, I actually don't really like this idea. It's not really much stronger except for splatting lightly tanked suits (which was already the only thing it could seriously do).
I would prefer to have the charge shot overheat... Reworked, and the other stats like damage, fire rate and clip size to be looked at as well.
A charge shot pistol is actually pretty cool, IMO. Unfortunately the instant overheat makes it of dubious practical value.
EDIT: Also, it's a CQC weapon, but the hipfire spread is so wide you can miss a target at 8m.
I agree. I really feel like this gun's dps is its largest issue with its instant overheat charge shot coming in a close second.
Increasing the damage per shot would deal with both of these issues though. Not only would the weapon's DPS increase but the charge shot would become much more deadly.
The only real issue with increasing the per shot damage is that it may make the weapon OP if not done carfully.
I suggest a small bump to per shot damage 5%. If that doesn't make it viable bump it up by 2% more. Continue with 1% bumps as needed until gun is usable.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1563
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Posted - 2014.08.02 00:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:That's all fine.
I just want my Ion Pistol to be viable!
Ok, so a small damage buff instead. I wouldn't mind at all, keep in mind the Viziam Scrambler pistol actually gets over 100 dmg per shot with max skills and I'm sure its not OP in anyway.
So mobius, I do not think you have to be too careful with it being OP, you have a huge range to play with, especially with it's small range.
That is a fair assessment Kirk. Since it has the smallest range of the pistols it should also have the highest DPS. This calls for a spread sheet!
I will follow up with one in my next post.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1564
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Posted - 2014.08.02 00:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:The only pistol that should even be semi-auto is a minmatar machine pistol. If you want automatic weaponry you want a SMG. Pistols are single or burst fire.
I couldn't disagree more.
First off all the pistols we have are semi-automatics. There are no revolvers or single action pistols in dust since the weapons do not need to be manually cycled (cocked) after each shot, they do this automatically as part of the firing process.
In fact all the pistols as they currently stand are semi-automatic with the exception of the Bolt Pistol which is fully-automatic (albeit with a very slow rate of fire for a weapon of this type). A fully automatic pistol would fit the bill for a minmatar weapon (though a burst fire handgun like the Beretta 93R would make more sense) but totally fits the Gallente docterine as well.
Sorry, I know this does not include a spreadsheet as promised I just couldn't let this go. I will include the comparison spreadsheet in the next post.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1567
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Posted - 2014.08.02 06:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Okay here is what I have come up with.
Pistol Comparison Chart (Graphs Included)
To start out I noticed that the Flaylock had by far the lowest total damage per mag potential. The Bolt Pistol was hugely overpowered DPS wise especially considering the fact that it has the longest range of the pistols. By contrast, the Ion Pistol had by far the lowest DPS. This means that the longest range weapon had the best damage dealing potential while the sortest range weapon had the least. Given the fact that I recently spent weeks trying to convice the Devs that this is the reverse of where the weapons should be (See Balancing Assault Rifles Bravo Hotfix) it was clearly time for some major tinkering.
The current, and long time, star among the pistols is the Scrambler. It does solid damage and is able to take out most targets in a single mag even without its massive head shot bonus. As such I took its stats (DPS, and Damage per Mag) as my baseline and modified all the other weapons to be in the same ball park keeping in mind my goal of an inverse relationship between damage and range.
Since the Flaylock's per. mag damage was so low I increased its magazine capacity by a single round. The flaylock's RoF was also buffed bringing its DPS into line with the scrambler pistol while slightly lower than the other weapons because of its AoE advantage. Even though the scrambler is decent I increased the RoF by a hair because it should have more DPS potential than the Flaylock since it is harder to use and has only marginally better range. The Bolt Pistol took at major hit to both RoF and Per shot damage. While it still has the second largest damage per shot it now has a slightly lower DPS than the other weapons. The Ion pistol got a significant bump in its DPS, a small bump in RoF and a single round decrease in its ammo capacity. This gives the Ion Pistol the highest DPS, the lowest Range, and an average total damage per magazine.
Final Analysis of Changes Made:
I like the current proposed balance of damage per magazine as well as the (albeit small) inverse damage to range relationship. I am a bit concerned that the Flaylock can do about 10 more damage per magazine but I don't think this is a big deal since other weapons have more range (bolt pistol) extra headshot damage (scrambler) and a charge shot for extra damage (Ion Pistol). These abilities I think should be kept in their current state since it gives the weapons individual flavor which would be severely lacking otherwise.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1572
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Posted - 2014.08.02 21:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
/hold up picture of vindictive eyes and bows down
"Logibo, Patron Saint of Logistics, Distributor of Nanites, and master of the look; I invoke you!"
/creates elaborate spread sheet with many nicely colored graphs and bows down
"Rattati, communicator, bearer of hot-fixes, and lover of evidence based reasoning; I invoke you!"
"Oh blue tagged lords of the DUST514 forums it would greatly please us lowly, but strangely opinionated, consumers of your product to have you grace this thread with your presences; if only to indicate that you have noted our comments for future digestion in your great minds. It would please us greatly. So say we all!"
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1573
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Posted - 2014.08.02 21:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Did you account for the bolt pistol spooling between every shot?
No and that is a good point. I will re-evaluate and alter the spreadsheet tonight as needed.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1574
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Posted - 2014.08.02 22:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:
/me emerges from a cloud of nanites
[img]https://i.imgur.com/NMlDr3d.jpg[/img]
I have looked upon thee and found your information of interest to our cause in the near future. Hold steady, for the time that balance is restored to the sidearm is nearly upon us; and you may be of assistance to us in this mission.
Go forth and rep. May the nanites guide you.
/me disappears back into the cloud of nanites
/breaks open a Ishukone Nanohive pouring its contents into a Tritanium bowl and setting them abaze
"Thank you for your response oh bringer of support, we shale refine this topic taking into consideration MINA's comment and any other that is deemed worthy of merit."
/pours ashes of burnt nanites over himself completing the right of cleansing, thankful that he did not have to escalate the initial rite of summoning with the "Dance of the Nanite" or the "Praise Be the Lord of Data Driven Change Script"
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1582
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Posted - 2014.08.03 05:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Grand Master Kubo wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:My only issue with the Ion Pistol is the charged shot seize duration. It's a very skill-oriented option (charged shot) and if you miss it's very punishing on the user.
I mean, if you're looking at it from a DPS perspective, you have to consider the two second cool-down time after a charged shot. Sure that alpha damage is fairly high (350 I think?) but spending the next two seconds waiting to be able to fire it again is a pain in the [redacted]. I personally think you could leave all the other stats alone and just work on it's seize duration a bit and it's turn into a really well balanced weapon. I agree. The scrambler rifle doesn't overheat after a single charge shot. I'm not saying that the Ion Pistol should be like the scrambler rifle but what if the Ion Pistol had a longer charge up time and no seize time? A certain amount of consecutive charge shots should seize it but with a longer charge time the Operation Skill would actually be useful. Now that you bring it up, if they changed Ion Pistol Operation to reduce the Seize Time - I'd be one happy badger.
That would be a great change.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1583
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Posted - 2014.08.03 08:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:...
STUFF
...
So, what do you guys think? While I agree the ion pistol is terrible, If we must change its mechanics, let it not be made to join the bloated ranks of fully automatic guns that litter this game. How about making it into a side arm shot gun? Or perhaps a gun that fires sticky balls of hot plasma that deal damage over time to anything it sticks to? Please, please. Anything but another machine gun.
Funny enough I kind of like the hand shotgun concept but I worry that it would be much harder to balance.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1583
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Posted - 2014.08.03 09:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have to give a thank you to MINA Longstrike on this one for correctly pointing out that my original spreadsheet did not account for the .25 second charge time per shot of the bolt pistol. It also had the wrong RoF for the Bolt pistol. I fixed both of these errors in the original spreadsheet and did some tinkering with the proposed stat changes as a result.
The updated spreadsheet may be found here: Pistol Comparison
After making these changes the graph clearly showed that the bolt pistol in its current state does the lowest DPS (297 to be precise) which fits with its huge range advantage but is just too dramatic of a difference to really be usable when compared with the scrambler pistol. The gun does have the highest current damage potential per mag though, mainly because of its massive per shot damage. This is great but since its DPS is so low it will be hard to apply all that damage before your opponent either runs away (if they are at long range) or kills you (if it is CQC).
To help the bolt pistol compete with the other weapons (given their proposed changes) I kept its damage the same but boosted its DPS to 286.25. Taking into account the .25 second per shot charge this will let the bolt pistol fire 2.8 rounds per second giving it a DPS of 418.275. This is the lowest DPS of those proposed (but not my much) and the weapon still fits the inverse range to damage relationship that helps create balance amongst other weapons in the game.
The proposed changes to the bolt pistol also include a single round reduction to its magazine size. Since the other change should allow the bolt pistol to apply its damage more readily it should not have the potential to do 891 damage per mag any longer. Shrinking the magazine to 5 still gives the bolt pistol the highest per mag damage potential at 742.5, a number I am still a bit worried about.
As usual please dive in there with suggestions to help change the balance of pistols in the game. If I missed something, tell me.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1613
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Posted - 2014.08.06 00:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:I guess this isn't so bad, but the honest truth is I don't feel this way about it. The ion pistol is really good at what it is for. It has never failed me. I huess there could be a variation like an assault ion that works as stated.
When you say this it makes me wonder if you even looked at the pistol comparison spreadsheet I made. It is clear that the Ion Pistol's stats are too low for it to actually be a competetive weapon. Sure you can kill with it, it can be used, but that doesn't mean it is balanced with the other weapons or even decent for what you are trying to do with it.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1693
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Posted - 2014.08.06 05:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:I really wanted a machine pistol option anyway...so +1 Hahaha I've fallen away from the Machine Pistol Idea but I still think it would be a cool feature, I just want my Ion Pistol to be good. I do not care what they do to it. At least for an Assault Ion Pistol Variant. I'd like to see a 3 shot burst Minmatar Pistol. Like a Beretta 93R. That makes me so moist just thinking about a 3 round burst Minmatar Pistol
Lol. Pistol love.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1704
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Posted - 2014.08.07 07:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Buff the ammo to, say, 48. This gives it competitive damage per clip and means you can down a good amount of health before needing a reload.
If the gun had 48 round mags it would do over 2000 damage per magazine. That is a truely OP amount of damage even considering its poor range.
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1724
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Posted - 2014.08.13 03:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sum1ne Else wrote:...^ TL;DR sooooo should I spec into this gun or not guys? 
Right now it is only worth it if you are wanting to play on hard mode. 
Fun > Realism
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1728
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Posted - 2014.08.14 04:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Buff the ammo to, say, 48. This gives it competitive damage per clip and means you can down a good amount of health before needing a reload. If the gun had 48 round mags it would do over 2000 damage per magazine. That is a truely OP amount of damage even considering its poor range. The SMG has almost that much... Also it would take an ion pistol almost 8 seconds if you maxed out the fire rate to fire all that off. 
That is a good point. Don't you think that kind of sustained firing would be unbalancing though? It just seems like removing the Ion Pistol's need to reload as often as the other pistols is the wrong way to go though I could be swayed on this.
Fun > Realism
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