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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1116
   |
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
JRleo jr wrote:Atiim wrote:JRleo jr wrote:
4 to 5 volleys to kill? That's barely anything!
Jeez, next thing you know, 2 shots is alot, even though swarmers are guaranteed 3 hits...
4-5 Volleys is 10.1-11.5s without skills, and 7.06-8.11s with max skills. Without skills, an ADS Pilot can escape 5 times before you actually kill it, and with max skills the ADS can escape 3 times before you actually kill it. Given how the average human reaction time is 215ms, if you consider that to be "barely anything" your either 20.5x or 14x slower than the average human. In that case, I'd suggest seeking immediate help. edit: Any Dropship with an Afterburner can easily evade the 3rd shot, and with Pythons you can evade the 2nd shot assuming your mildly competent Bolded part, completely irrelevant, pythons have to sacrifice a high slot to fit one, and would have to flee if any damage is taken.
It's not a "sacrifice" but a "GAIN".
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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DarthMcFizzle
MOOSE-KNUCKLEz CLAN
61
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Posted - 2014.07.31 21:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
I'd say it really depends on pilot skill plus fitting. I forge a ton and I'd say that; A. Pythons seem generally tougher than Incubi.
B. Afterburners+spinning up into the air makes you hard to hit, just afterburners+straight into the air, not so much (afterburners not OP, skill is) C. A few extra hp in charlie won't make dropships OP (good pilots+bad AV will)
Personally i think that forgeguns vs. vehicles is very balanced and charlie won't change much, but it may be a different story for swarms. |
JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
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Posted - 2014.07.31 21:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Atiim wrote:JRleo jr wrote:
Bolded part, completely irrelevant, pythons have to sacrifice a high slot to fit one, and would have to flee if any damage is taken.
And swarmers are guaranteed 3 shots and will continue to be after thier inevitable range buff, glad shield dropships are getting buffed, completely ridiculous 4 shots to kill, and no vehicle in this game is required to use a heavy hp mod, incubus? I never fit plates, maddie? Nope, armor lav? Nope.
And pythons don't start moving fast enough right away.
Did I mention the fact that swarms make your aim bad? Or the fact that after 3 shots your hp is nothing? 1 clip of swarms doesn't take that long to empty.
The bolded part is not irrelevant, as it disproves your assertion on the 3rd Shot being a guaranteed hit. Are you online right now? I'm willing to bet 100m ISK that if you were to take a Swarm Launcher, you'd never hit me with the 3rd volley while in my Python. 4 Shots to kill is not ridiculous, as you already have plenty of time to evade, and you already have gains which make up for your lack of standing power. Yes they do, their movement speed is 75m/s. I see no problem with the knockback feature, as you can tilt your ship to accommodate for the incoming effect. please, do go in a match and try it, doesn't always work, oet alone vs proto, and it pushes pythons back which is annoyingEmptying a clip may not take as long (only with max skills), but the travel time with the volleys easily makes up for that which it doesn't, still granteed 3 hits, as the way drooships work you won't see swarms til the first shot.
Deleted everything afterburner related, it is not relevant for obvious reasons you keep ignoring.
Pythons won't be able to start moving fast enough do to thier nature of the ship so 3 hits are guaranteed.
And swarms shouldn't be that powerful anyways vs pythons
Lock on
80% shield damage.
3 shots drains your hp enough anything can kill you, and getting 1 clip off is easy and doesn't take long.
And really, swarms are invisible sometimes...
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
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Posted - 2014.07.31 21:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:JRleo jr wrote:Atiim wrote:JRleo jr wrote:
4 to 5 volleys to kill? That's barely anything!
Jeez, next thing you know, 2 shots is alot, even though swarmers are guaranteed 3 hits...
4-5 Volleys is 10.1-11.5s without skills, and 7.06-8.11s with max skills. Without skills, an ADS Pilot can escape 5 times before you actually kill it, and with max skills the ADS can escape 3 times before you actually kill it. Given how the average human reaction time is 215ms, if you consider that to be "barely anything" your either 20.5x or 14x slower than the average human. In that case, I'd suggest seeking immediate help. edit: Any Dropship with an Afterburner can easily evade the 3rd shot, and with Pythons you can evade the 2nd shot assuming your mildly competent Bolded part, completely irrelevant, pythons have to sacrifice a high slot to fit one, and would have to flee if any damage is taken. It's not a "sacrifice" but a "GAIN".
It's a sacrifice.
No shield booster=death when shields are gone.
Less hp if using a booster
Or no hardener.
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
|
JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Atiim wrote:JRleo jr wrote:
Bolded part, completely irrelevant, pythons have to sacrifice a high slot to fit one, and would have to flee if any damage is taken.
And swarmers are guaranteed 3 shots and will continue to be after thier inevitable range buff, glad shield dropships are getting buffed, completely ridiculous 4 shots to kill, and no vehicle in this game is required to use a heavy hp mod, incubus? I never fit plates, maddie? Nope, armor lav? Nope.
And pythons don't start moving fast enough right away.
Did I mention the fact that swarms make your aim bad? Or the fact that after 3 shots your hp is nothing? 1 clip of swarms doesn't take that long to empty.
The bolded part is not irrelevant, as it disproves your assertion on the 3rd Shot being a guaranteed hit. Are you online right now? I'm willing to bet 100m ISK that if you were to take a Swarm Launcher, you'd never hit me with the 3rd volley while in my Python. 4 Shots to kill is not ridiculous, as you already have plenty of time to evade, and you already have gains which make up for your lack of standing power. Yes they do, their movement speed is 75m/s, and using an Afterburner brings that to 112m/s, which is faster than any item in the game. I see no problem with the knockback feature, as you can tilt your ship to accommodate for the incoming effect. Emptying a clip may not take as long (only with max skills), but the travel time with the volleys easily makes up for that. As for your edit, Swarm Launchers don't easily kill Shielded Vehicles, and if you find that to be the case your either: A.) Using an unfitted Saga or Onikuma B.) Not using defensive modules of any kind C.) Terrible at operating Assault Dropships It's most obviously C, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was B as well.
You obviously can't read either.
I said it shouldn't do high damage to shield vehicles.
4 shots to kill with a heavy hp mod is high damage, I mean you can have a teamate empy a clip when you shoot a ship once with a forge or a small missile and instantly be taken down, and most pythons don't use ab.
And don't assume pythons have instant acceleration and go from 0 to 75 m/s instantly like you keep doing.
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
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Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11140
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Posted - 2014.07.31 21:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Do you have an explanation as to why the Afterburner is unrelated? It currently allows Assault Dropships to evade every AV weapon in DUST with incredible ease, and can easily be fitted without sacrifice.
Considering how a Shield Hardener brings SL damage down to 558HP per volley, any Python with a Shield Extender to boot can survive well beyond the 3 Swarms. I hate to say it, but you may need to evaluate your skill.
If 3 hits on the Python are guaranteed, could you explain the countless videos where Pythons have easily evaded the 3rd shot? I can display them if you need be.
Introducing 'Hotfix Charlie' Assault Dropships: New Eden's first line of SHAVs
-HAND
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
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Posted - 2014.07.31 21:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Do you have an explanation as to why the Afterburner is unrelated? It currently allows Assault Dropships to evade every AV weapon in DUST with incredible ease, and can easily be fitted without sacrifice.
Considering how a Shield Hardener brings SL damage down to 558HP per volley, any Python with a Shield Extender to boot can survive well beyond the 3 Swarms. I hate to say it, but you may need to evaluate your skill.
If 3 hits on the Python are guaranteed, could you explain the countless videos where Pythons have easily evaded the 3rd shot? I can display them if you need be.
Because they use afterburners?
I don't use them, and I've destroyed pythons using an ab because I'm a good forger.
And you're thinking because people use 1 mod you balance off people jsing it to flee after taking any damage.
And shield hards have short duration long cooldown, which is ********.
And I want a swarm lock on range buff.
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
|
JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
1 last thing before I go and read.
Swarms shouldn't be super powerful, especially vs shields, but, they should get a lock range buff and higher ammo reserve.
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
|
Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11140
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
JRleo jr wrote:
It's a sacrifice.
No shield booster=death when shields are gone.
Less hp if using a booster
Or no hardener.
You can evade well before that happens, so yes it is a gain.
JRleo jr wrote:
You obviously can't read either.
I said it shouldn't do high damage to shield vehicles.
4 shots to kill with a heavy hp mod is high damage, I mean you can have a teamate empy a clip when you shoot a ship once with a forge or a small missile and instantly be taken down, and most pythons don't use ab.
And don't assume pythons have instant acceleration and go from 0 to 75 m/s instantly like you keep doing.
Once these changes go live all we need is a lock on range buff and we're good.
535HP is not high damage. In fact, it's less than a STD Sleek AV Grenade.
I fail to see how that's a problem given how within the 8.11 seconds you have to live, you can easily escape 3x over, and 2 players with a concentrated effort should easily down your Python. This same rule applies to every other item in the game, and as such Pythons shouldn't be an exception.
A Lock Range will cause SLs to be imbalanced against HAVs and LAVs, and it won't matter if the speed of the SL isn't fast enough to keep up with it.
Introducing 'Hotfix Charlie' Assault Dropships: New Eden's first line of SHAVs
-HAND
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Atiim wrote:JRleo jr wrote:
It's a sacrifice.
No shield booster=death when shields are gone.
Less hp if using a booster
Or no hardener.
You can evade well before that happens, so yes it is a sacrifice because you have to run after any damage is taken, which is also boring and stupid. JRleo jr wrote:
You obviously can't read either.
I said it shouldn't do high damage to shield vehicles.
4 shots to kill with a heavy hp mod is high damage, I mean you can have a teamate empy a clip when you shoot a ship once with a forge or a small missile and instantly be taken down, and most pythons don't use ab.
And don't assume pythons have instant acceleration and go from 0 to 75 m/s instantly like you keep doing.
Once these changes go live all we need is a lock on range buff and we're good.
535HP is not high damage. In fact, it's less than a STD Sleek AV Grenade. How mich shields do pythons have? 2550. How many shots is that? 5, what is the prupose of hardeners? To allow you to stay and tank damages so while I wait for my long cooldown to end, I can be easily killed and I run when I take damage if it's not std swarms. I fail to see how that's a problem given how within the 8.11 seconds you have to live, you can easily escape 3x over, and 2 players with a concentrated effort should easily down your Python. This same rule applies to every other item in the game, and as such Pythons shouldn't be an exception. You do know for a big thing in the sky that is a very easy target that doesn't seem long, as since you are in the air someone can shoot you out of nowhere, right? A Lock Range will cause SLs to be imbalanced against HAVs and LAVs, and it won't matter if the speed of the SL isn't fast enough to keep up with it.
But swarms need a small lockon buff...
Oh and heavies vs rail rifles, a proto heavy can take a long time to kill, so.....
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1120
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Do you have an explanation as to why the Afterburner is unrelated? It currently allows Assault Dropships to evade every AV weapon in DUST with incredible ease, and can easily be fitted without sacrifice.
Considering how a Shield Hardener brings SL damage down to 558HP per volley, any Python with a Shield Extender to boot can survive well beyond the 3 Swarms. I hate to say it, but you may need to evaluate your skill.
If 3 hits on the Python are guaranteed, could you explain the countless videos where Pythons have easily evaded the 3rd shot? I can display them if you need be.
I myself have a serious question for this guy.
WHY is a shield booster so important to you???????????
It is arguably the weakest thing you can fit to your ADS. Are you telling me that a shield booster trumps a Hardener, Extender, OR a Afterburner?
It seems to me that you need dedicate a bit more SP to optimization. Or just more SP to vehicles in general.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12438
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think I finally see how stupid we tankers looked back pre-Tankpocolypse....... wow it really was bad for us....
This has been enlightening. Thank you all.
Speaking of the AB on your dropship...... Speed Tanking is a thing and you can and often do make yourself invincible by not allowing yourself to be hit....
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Atiim wrote:Do you have an explanation as to why the Afterburner is unrelated? It currently allows Assault Dropships to evade every AV weapon in DUST with incredible ease, and can easily be fitted without sacrifice.
Considering how a Shield Hardener brings SL damage down to 558HP per volley, any Python with a Shield Extender to boot can survive well beyond the 3 Swarms. I hate to say it, but you may need to evaluate your skill.
If 3 hits on the Python are guaranteed, could you explain the countless videos where Pythons have easily evaded the 3rd shot? I can display them if you need be. I myself have a serious question for this guy. WHY is a shield booster so important to you??????????? It is arguably the weakest thing you can fit to your ADS. Are you telling me that a shield booster trumps a Hardener, Extender, OR a Afterburner? It seems to me that you need dedicate a bit more SP to optimization. Or just more SP to vehicles in general.
Because, I've died several times when my shields were gone while I was fleeing, and it helps me flee when my hardener is down, or just tank when I'm trying to kill a damm forger.
Plus while I'm dodging a rail or forge I can use it to speed up regen.
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
|
JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
160
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I think I finally see how stupid we tankers looked back pre-Tankpocolypse....... wow it really was bad for us....
This has been enlightening. Thank you all.
Speaking of the AB on your dropship...... Speed Tanking is a thing and you can and often do make yourself invincible by not allowing yourself to be hit....
But then you can barely shoot then, you have to get some what close to the ground to see reds, and on my 20' tv it's just awful.
Max level brony.
Pink fluffy unicorns
http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos
Best song evar.
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12438
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 21:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
JRleo jr wrote:True Adamance wrote:I think I finally see how stupid we tankers looked back pre-Tankpocolypse....... wow it really was bad for us....
This has been enlightening. Thank you all.
Speaking of the AB on your dropship...... Speed Tanking is a thing and you can and often do make yourself invincible by not allowing yourself to be hit.... But then you can barely shoot then, you have to get some what close to the ground to see reds, and on my 20' tv it's just awful.
Sorry I have no pity left in me for a vehicle that can
1x Basic Heavy Extender
1x Advanced AB
1x Advanced Hardener
1x Complex CPU/ PG Mod
1x Proto Missile Turret
2238 Shields
960 Armour
224 Shield regen per second
4 Second delay on shield regen
9 second depleted shield regen
top speed of 125 m/s
500.5 damage per missile
and CAN FLY!
I gotta say I have no sympathy for you. And that's probably a bad ADS fit.......
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
1184
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 22:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
JRleo jr wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Atiim wrote:Do you have an explanation as to why the Afterburner is unrelated? It currently allows Assault Dropships to evade every AV weapon in DUST with incredible ease, and can easily be fitted without sacrifice.
Considering how a Shield Hardener brings SL damage down to 558HP per volley, any Python with a Shield Extender to boot can survive well beyond the 3 Swarms. I hate to say it, but you may need to evaluate your skill.
If 3 hits on the Python are guaranteed, could you explain the countless videos where Pythons have easily evaded the 3rd shot? I can display them if you need be. I myself have a serious question for this guy. WHY is a shield booster so important to you??????????? It is arguably the weakest thing you can fit to your ADS. Are you telling me that a shield booster trumps a Hardener, Extender, OR a Afterburner? It seems to me that you need dedicate a bit more SP to optimization. Or just more SP to vehicles in general. Because, I've died several times when my shields were gone while I was fleeing, and it helps me flee when my hardener is down, or just tank when I'm trying to kill a damm forger. Plus while I'm dodging a rail or forge I can use it to speed up regen.
If your hardener is down then you should have already been fled. You see that was the whole idea CCP had when they changed vehicles and their modules to how they are now; "Waves of opportunity" as they said, come in with your hardener on and get the fck out before it goes off.
Kill Scotty
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1122
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 22:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:JRleo jr wrote:True Adamance wrote:I think I finally see how stupid we tankers looked back pre-Tankpocolypse....... wow it really was bad for us....
This has been enlightening. Thank you all.
Speaking of the AB on your dropship...... Speed Tanking is a thing and you can and often do make yourself invincible by not allowing yourself to be hit.... But then you can barely shoot then, you have to get some what close to the ground to see reds, and on my 20' tv it's just awful. Sorry I have no pity left in me for a vehicle that can 1x Basic Heavy Extender 1x Advanced AB 1x Advanced Hardener 1x Complex CPU/ PG Mod 1x Proto Missile Turret 2238 Shields 960 Armour 224 Shield regen per second 4 Second delay on shield regen 9 second depleted shield regen top speed of 125 m/s 500.5 damage per missile and CAN FLY! I gotta say I have no sympathy for you. And that's probably a bad ADS fit.......
Actually, you are almost there.
1x enhanced heavy extender
1x enhanced afterburner
1x complex shield hardener
1x PG booster (complex)
1x xt-1 missile launcher
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12441
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 22:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:True Adamance wrote:JRleo jr wrote:True Adamance wrote:I think I finally see how stupid we tankers looked back pre-Tankpocolypse....... wow it really was bad for us....
This has been enlightening. Thank you all.
Speaking of the AB on your dropship...... Speed Tanking is a thing and you can and often do make yourself invincible by not allowing yourself to be hit.... But then you can barely shoot then, you have to get some what close to the ground to see reds, and on my 20' tv it's just awful. Sorry I have no pity left in me for a vehicle that can 1x Basic Heavy Extender 1x Advanced AB 1x Advanced Hardener 1x Complex CPU/ PG Mod 1x Proto Missile Turret 2238 Shields 960 Armour 224 Shield regen per second 4 Second delay on shield regen 9 second depleted shield regen top speed of 125 m/s 500.5 damage per missile and CAN FLY! I gotta say I have no sympathy for you. And that's probably a bad ADS fit....... Actually, you are almost there. 1x enhanced heavy extender 1x enhanced afterburner 1x complex shield hardener 1x PG booster (complex) 1x xt-1 missile launcher
How did you fit that? I tried using Proto fits with maxed skill.....
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2353
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 23:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:JRleo jr wrote:True Adamance wrote:I think I finally see how stupid we tankers looked back pre-Tankpocolypse....... wow it really was bad for us....
This has been enlightening. Thank you all.
Speaking of the AB on your dropship...... Speed Tanking is a thing and you can and often do make yourself invincible by not allowing yourself to be hit.... But then you can barely shoot then, you have to get some what close to the ground to see reds, and on my 20' tv it's just awful. Sorry I have no pity left in me for a vehicle that can 1x Basic Heavy Extender 1x Advanced AB 1x Advanced Hardener 1x Complex CPU/ PG Mod 1x Proto Missile Turret 2238 Shields 960 Armour 224 Shield regen per second 4 Second delay on shield regen 9 second depleted shield regen top speed of 125 m/s 500.5 damage per missile and CAN FLY! I gotta say I have no sympathy for you. And that's probably a bad ADS fit.......
FIrst off that is a very bad fit, you are correct on that. A little more cost efficient, but bad.
In all honesty, though, I don't agree with many of these pilots. The ADS does not need a buff, neither does the swarm. We also don't need sympathy.
I am the skybound warrior, you will know to run when you hear the music from above that make panties disappear.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12447
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 23:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:True Adamance wrote:JRleo jr wrote:True Adamance wrote:I think I finally see how stupid we tankers looked back pre-Tankpocolypse....... wow it really was bad for us....
This has been enlightening. Thank you all.
Speaking of the AB on your dropship...... Speed Tanking is a thing and you can and often do make yourself invincible by not allowing yourself to be hit.... But then you can barely shoot then, you have to get some what close to the ground to see reds, and on my 20' tv it's just awful. Sorry I have no pity left in me for a vehicle that can 1x Basic Heavy Extender 1x Advanced AB 1x Advanced Hardener 1x Complex CPU/ PG Mod 1x Proto Missile Turret 2238 Shields 960 Armour 224 Shield regen per second 4 Second delay on shield regen 9 second depleted shield regen top speed of 125 m/s 500.5 damage per missile and CAN FLY! I gotta say I have no sympathy for you. And that's probably a bad ADS fit....... FIrst off that is a very bad fit, you are correct on that. A little more cost efficient, but bad. In all honesty, though, I don't agree with many of these pilots. The ADS does not need a buff, neither does the swarm. We also don't need sympathy.
Yeah I am atrocious in the skies..... I used to be able to fly basic DS for gun platforms and Air Cav runs...... but beyond that I prefer to keep my treads on the ground.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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