DUST Search - Legal Suit: Scouts v. Heavies

mollerz wrote:

Brokerib wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

Your honor, let it be known that the capacity for a close quarters weapon that is not of the plasma cannon class it is physically impossible to proverbially "2-shot" any heavy suit above the grade of militia.

These are lies that are either spread ignorantly or maliciously, and if it would please your honor, i shall do the proverbial math at a later date decided upon by this court.

In addition, due to relatively poor hit detection, the damage of afore mentioned close quarters weaponry is lower than the estimated output.

Interjection on a point of law. The crown wishes it to be noted that the Nova Knife is capable of a "2-shot" of any grade suit, at extreme CQC range. While not strictly relevant to the current discussion, the correct forms should be observed.

Objection!

After the first of two needed hits lands upon an experienced proto heavy, he can backpedal faster than you can attack forward with nova knives effectively rendering them one hit weapons with no possibility of killing. Also known as less than lethal.

Judge looks down from bench and takes off reading glasses, "OVER RULED, Brokerib. And next time don't ignore state's evidence submitted many times in barbershop mediations, ON RECORD, or I will hold, you in contempt."

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Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4650	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:14:00 - [1] - Quote I am Bojo and I represent the prosecution; scouts. The common argument from the defendants, heavies, is that they require a super high dps weapon to counter shotgun scouts because shotgun scouts will, quote "just two shot them". Your honor, I have here, exhibit A & B. Exhibit A is the Creodron shotgun. It deals a DPS of 754.25. It has a damage profile of -10% Armor +10% Shields. It costs 93 CPU & 14 PG. It has a useful range of about 10 meters.This is the tool commonly used by the prosecution, to persecute heavies. Now, your honor, I unleash upon the court exhibit B. Exhibit B is the Boundless Heavy Machine gun. It deals a DPS of 792 and has a damage profile of -5% shields +10% armor. It also only costs 92 CPU & 10 PG. It has a useful range of up to forty meters, target dependent. Your honor, as you can see here, the defendants have a weapon that is blatantly better than the prosecutions. It is less fitting intensive, has higher range, higher DPS, and given server circumstances it's higher RoF can beat broken hit detection better than a shotgun. Now, your honor, please read over exhibit C. It is a maximum HP comparison between scouts and heavies. The hotfix charlie defendants will have HP upward of 1866.6. That does not factor in at all the splash resistances and other resistances granted to the heavy. Now compare that to the maximum HP of the Amarr scout: 1026.7. While that number is field-tested to be a ****** scout, we will prosecute with the notion that it is as viable as any fit. Now your honor seeing as how the heavy fits the HMG and the scout fits the shotgun: Prosecution is outranged, outdps'd, and out HP'd by the heavy. Your honor even should we consider the radar advantage of the prosecution & other realistic factors the realism of a scout using 1026.7 HP is not there. We are considering these two, the prosecution & the defendant, mano y mano. Realistically the prosecution could gain the first strike your honor, but the realism of this fit in particular is just not there making the HP gap all the more greater and the advantage all the more so in favor of the defendant. Prosecution rests your honor. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1735	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:19:00 - [2] - Quote INB4 Heavies with no gun-game claim that they need it "cuz scount OP". I ran a MLT HMG heavy today, and found it a better slayer than my proto minja. I think the reason that so many of the heavies complain is because they use the suit like they're superman and don't rely upon gun game and strafing. I tried running like rambo with my HMG heavy, and it wasn't successful. I tried running like a minja with my heavy, and I was successful, due to strafe+800 DPS death ray. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand Give the Minja active dampening!
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 6262	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:20:00 - [3] - Quote I love you bojo. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4657	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:38:00 - [4] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I love you bojo. <3 Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Matticus Monk OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2223	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:44:00 - [5] - Quote Heavies aren't fun to deal with these days but I don't mind going against a good heavy. That being said, I wish there was a way to get scrubs out of the suit. Especially scrubs with rifles. Hey, actually that's exactly what I think about scouts. Dang. INB4 "You forgot to mention the EZ mode, scrub cloak that all skill-less wall hack scouts use to cheat" Double posting like a Kaiser.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3713	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:44:00 - [6] - Quote There's a militia hmg? Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
MythTanker Haus of Triage 171	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:44:00 - [7] - Quote Your honor please realise that even if the SG isnt a counter, which has proven usefull many times on the battlefield just examine kill feeds, there are many other counters Remote Explosives Any rifile at range Flanking The heavy suit also have flaws Larger hitboxes Very slow No dampening Low range The defendant does realise that Heavy spam is a problem, but that will be fixed with upcoming changes. PS: I love roleplay... QQ has impressed me for once... The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3389	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:44:00 - [8] - Quote 10 Meters!? Efficacy readout starts to drop at 5m. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 700	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:48:00 - [9] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: There's a militia hmg? Yes, but you can only equip it on a Pilot Dropsuit on the Caldari Production Facility map. Who farted?
MythTanker Haus of Triage 171	Posted - 2014.07.30 02:49:00 - [10] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: There's a militia hmg? Yea man i heard Gav killed a full proto squad of ERA one time, then he proceeded to kill 3 tanks and a MCC with it... No there isn MLT HMG he just needed to make the HMG sound OP The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton

Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4661	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:00:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 10 Meters!? Efficacy readout starts to drop at 5m. Prosecution is generous. Your honor, please recognize that radar does not distinguish suits meaning that the prosecution is unaware if they are dealing with a defendant or a bystander until visual contact is made. Let it also be known that heavies can use any and every weapon in the game, thus any range counter is purely to the HMG and not to the defendant themselves. Your honor the prosecution will admit that shotguns are easy to use once in proper range, much like the HMG. Very little aim is necessary thus hitbox size does not discern an advantage against the shotgun, similar to how the smaller hitbox of the prosecution does not discern an advantage against the large cone of the HMG. Prosecution admits to using remote explosives but does not see how they are a prosecution specific problem, seeing as how they can be fit and used by any other suit shy of sentinels and heavy basic frames. At most, your honor, the remote explosive will deal 1750 damage which is countered by the 1866.6 HP & splash resistance of the defendant your honor. Prosecution rests. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1739	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:04:00 - [12] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: There's a militia hmg? The republic one is what i call the MLT HMG because it requires no skills. (Just like all the HMG's ) PS: I also said militia HMG HEAVY which refers to the suit. Sorry for the confusion. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand Give the Minja active dampening!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1739	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:09:00 - [13] - Quote MythTanker wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: There's a militia hmg? Yea man i heard Gav killed a full proto squad of ERA one time, then he proceeded to kill 3 tanks and a MCC with it... No that was my melee fit scout. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand Give the Minja active dampening!
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4661	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:10:00 - [14] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: MythTanker wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: There's a militia hmg? Yea man i heard Gav killed a full proto squad of ERA one time, then he proceeded to kill 3 tanks and a MCC with it... No that was my melee fit scout. Prosecution motions for a DPLAK Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
MythTanker Haus of Triage 172	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:20:00 - [15] - Quote Your honor let it be known that when a suit is scanned that the prosecution can see excatly where the defendant is facing so that a sneaky and close ranged attack can occur which ties into... Your honor let it be known that when the prosecution is in close range that with SP invested of course can kill the defendant in 2 shots with its SG, if done properly of course... Your honor let it be known that yes a heavy can use weapons with range, but not only is it ineffective but it takes away from the CQC role and makes them into a slow, big, undampened target... Your honor let it be known that a Remote explosive can kill most tanked suits and if not the inflicted suit can die swiftly from a few round with no effort required... PS: Keep it coming The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 607	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:21:00 - [16] - Quote Your Honor, the Jury, and rest of the court: I, following the prosecution, will state my case: In addition to the great Bojo, it should be noted that the damage taken from the HMG isn't noticed until after a few seconds, meaning that even though a player may be behind cover, it would seem as if he/she is taking damage behind that cover. This is not only deceiving but unreasonably accepted. Although this isn't the largest issue at hand, it definitely seems to be an important one. Futhermore many maps involve CQC, even if you are more than 35 m away from the HMG, it's DPS will defeat the player due to it's excellent range ability that isn't achieved with the shotgun, which can't even do damage more than 7 m. Again, eHP and DPS puts the scouts at a disadvantage. While this next point is only partially the heavies fault, Shared Squad Vision destroys the scout's EWAR capabilities and makes it even more easy for Heavies to take down scouts. And finally the court should acknowledge; we all love Bojo. I rest my case. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1743	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:25:00 - [17] - Quote Your honor, let it be known that the capacity for a close quarters weapon that is not of the plasma cannon class it is physically impossible to proverbially "2-shot" any heavy suit above the grade of militia. These are lies that are either spread ignorantly or maliciously, and if it would please your honor, i shall do the proverbial math at a later date decided upon by this court. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand Give the Minja active dampening!
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4676	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:30:00 - [18] - Quote MythTanker wrote: Your honor let it be known that when a suit is scanned that the prosecution can see excatly where the defendant is facing so that a sneaky and close ranged attack can occur which ties into... Your honor let it be known that when the prosecution is in close range that with SP invested of course can kill the defendant in 2 shots with its SG, if done properly of course... Your honor let it be known that yes a heavy can use weapons with range, but not only is it ineffective but it takes away from the CQC role and makes them into a slow, big, undampened target... Your honor let it be known that a Remote explosive can kill most tanked suits and if not the inflicted suit can die swiftly from a few round with no effort required... Objection your honor : Speculation Proven time and time again that a heavy with a rail rifle is a super viable option and nowhere in development is the heavy referred to as a CQC suit. Especially considering forge gun tower snipers. Objection your honor : Misleading speech Second 1 will deplete shields and eat some armor. Second 2 will eat some armor but not the rest. Second 3 will finally finish a defendant. Defendant is using a misleading assumption that prosecution is landing headshots while defendant is not. Prosecution admits scanning point. It is an advantage we have, it makes up for our lack of health; by design & intent. Your honor defendant is differing from original suit of 1866 HP. It will take more than one remote to in fact kill that specific defendant. If the defendants continue to pursue alternate scenarios prosecution will revert to 200 HP suit as scenario for prosecution. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
MythTanker Haus of Triage 173	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:34:00 - [19] - Quote Your honor it is not the heavies fault for any bugs to do with the damage delay of the HMG... Your honor the optimal of an HMG is 40m but if you take into consideration that dispersion lowers the dps... Even so the HMG will still kill at that range if you're standing still or a low hp scout, that might sound like a disadvantage but if you are caught due to the fact that heavies can not scan, then that means uou have failed at your job. Any Suit/weapon can kill youat that range, simply up your stealth skills... The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Morathi III Pro Hic Immortalis 173	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:40:00 - [20] - Quote youe honoe has a shotgun scout since a while, with the newhotfix charlie, with the change to the heavy i think we will have a nice fix and balance in my opinion French Canadian Scrubs scout

Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 2035	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:41:00 - [21] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Your honor, let it be known that the capacity for a close quarters weapon that is not of the plasma cannon class it is physically impossible to proverbially "2-shot" any heavy suit above the grade of militia. These are lies that are either spread ignorantly or maliciously, and if it would please your honor, i shall do the proverbial math at a later date decided upon by this court. In addition, due to relatively poor hit detection, the damage of afore mentioned close quarters weaponry is lower than the estimated output. Interjection on a point of law. The crown wishes it to be noted that the Nova Knife is capable of a "2-shot" of any grade suit, at extreme CQC range. While not strictly relevant to the current discussion, the correct forms should be observed. Knowledge is power
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4680	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:42:00 - [22] - Quote Morathi III wrote: youe honoe has a shotgun scout since a while, with the newhotfix charlie, with the change to the heavy i think we will have a nice fix and balance in my opinion Prosecution is using, in fact, the defendant from hot fix charlie as example. In hotfix charlie, while defendants will justly lose CPU/PG, will have an all new potential of 1866 HP without resistances factored. While prosecution shares your sentiments, there will in fact be a pinnacle of HP for the defendants. Prosecution does not prosecute defendants for that case, merely that their QQ is unjustified both against Charlie hotfix and shotgun scouts. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
mollerz 4472	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:50:00 - [23] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Your honor, let it be known that the capacity for a close quarters weapon that is not of the plasma cannon class it is physically impossible to proverbially "2-shot" any heavy suit above the grade of militia. These are lies that are either spread ignorantly or maliciously, and if it would please your honor, i shall do the proverbial math at a later date decided upon by this court. In addition, due to relatively poor hit detection, the damage of afore mentioned close quarters weaponry is lower than the estimated output. Interjection on a point of law. The crown wishes it to be noted that the Nova Knife is capable of a "2-shot" of any grade suit, at extreme CQC range. While not strictly relevant to the current discussion, the correct forms should be observed. Objection! After the first of two needed hits lands upon an experienced proto heavy, he can backpedal faster than you can attack forward with nova knives effectively rendering them one hit weapons with no possibility of killing. Also known as less than lethal. Judge looks down from bench and takes off reading glasses, "OVER RULED, Brokerib. And next time don't ignore state's evidence submitted many times in barbershop mediations, ON RECORD, or I will hold you in contempt." Dingle Dust Berry.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 1946	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:59:00 - [24] - Quote Speaking on behalf of all medium Frames you're both OP. I've already filed a restraining order. All Light and Heavy Frames are required to remain outside 600 meters from any Medium Frame. My Sentinel Main and Minja ALT are disappointed. While the Logi ALT is somewhat anguished at our failures to get along. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Morathi III Pro Hic Immortalis 174	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:03:00 - [25] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Morathi III wrote: youe honoe has a shotgun scout since a while, with the newhotfix charlie, with the change to the heavy i think we will have a nice fix and balance in my opinion Prosecution is using, in fact, the defendant from hot fix charlie as example. In hotfix charlie, while defendants will justly lose CPU/PG, will have an all new potential of 1866 HP without resistances factored. While prosecution shares your sentiments, there will in fact be a pinnacle of HP for the defendants. Prosecution does not prosecute defendants for that case, merely that their QQ is unjustified both against Charlie hotfix and shotgun scouts. attack when is near to overheat or when he will get distract by the new revamped assault are two new way to kill them use our environement & situation of weakness im sure you will doing well old war veteran has you are your honor French Canadian Scrubs scout
mollerz 4475	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:06:00 - [26] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Speaking on behalf of all medium Frames you're both OP. I've already filed a restraining order. All Light and Heavy Frames are required to remain outside 600 meters from any Medium Frame. Wut wut! Dingle Dust Berry.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 2038	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:06:00 - [27] - Quote mollerz wrote: Brokerib wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Your honor, let it be known that the capacity for a close quarters weapon that is not of the plasma cannon class it is physically impossible to proverbially "2-shot" any heavy suit above the grade of militia. These are lies that are either spread ignorantly or maliciously, and if it would please your honor, i shall do the proverbial math at a later date decided upon by this court. In addition, due to relatively poor hit detection, the damage of afore mentioned close quarters weaponry is lower than the estimated output. Interjection on a point of law. The crown wishes it to be noted that the Nova Knife is capable of a "2-shot" of any grade suit, at extreme CQC range. While not strictly relevant to the current discussion, the correct forms should be observed. Objection! After the first of two needed hits lands upon an experienced proto heavy, he can backpedal faster than you can attack forward with nova knives effectively rendering them one hit weapons with no possibility of killing. Also known as less than lethal. Judge looks down from bench and takes off reading glasses, "OVER RULED, Brokerib. And next time don't ignore state's evidence submitted many times in barbershop mediations, ON RECORD, or I will hold, you in contempt." As long as you hold me, your honour, you can do what you like The crown must object to the use of game-play, or 'real life', play experience in the hypothetical construct put forward by the honorable Bojo. To intoduce the concept of "gun game" or "player skill" into this discussion at this time renders the majority of arguments put forward as invalid. The crown stands by it's original interjection, on the basis of ex facie mathamatica. The ability to apply potential damages does not not nulify that the potential damages exist. Knowledge is power
Zindorak 1.U.P 193	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:06:00 - [28] - Quote people still still use the srubby shotty scouts? all i use is Combat rifles on my scouts. Maybe some other things such as ARs i might use but shotty scouts no Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
MythTanker Haus of Triage 174	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:13:00 - [29] - Quote Your honor a rifle heavy has been known to be viable AT RANGE, but what happens when a SG scout approaches the defendant and due to his slow suit can not strafe as fast and renders him useless... The defendant has agreed that it will take up to but only 3 shots to kill him with the SG, however the prosecution has admitted that they get the first shot most of the time so 2 more should be no problem... Your honor let it be known that Remote explosives are a very powerful device and the only time it will fail is when it hits one of the most tanked suits just like a Hp stacking, strafing, SG scout who again only need 3 shots while normally giving the first one... Both counters can be countered... The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3396	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:13:00 - [30] - Quote Zindorak wrote: people still still use the srubby shotty scouts? all i use is Combat rifles on my scouts. Maybe some other things such as ARs i might use but shotty scouts no The CR kills quicker than a SG (if a target has 500+ HP). Explain. Scrub. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley



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