Side gunners will fall out of relevance. The fitting costs and hit to defense will not account for an extra gunner and the necessary flight style to have effective gunners.

Bug or no bug; side guns on ADS will now be a huge Fail. Anyone can say it's a bug but the stacking existed even before the vehicle changes, the only thing that didn't exist was the Assault dropship/gal/cal bonus.

Good luck being relevant against tanks, good luck being relevant against other dropships and for all you gunners out there, good luck finding a pilot crazy enough to actually want to gimp himself just to have you.

---

Fiend: good luck getting CCP to change anything for fitting costs in ADS. It's not feesable and it will corrupt balance. The current bonuses are too strong to warrant another bonus to ADS. It's either keep the bonuses we have or sacrifice those for the fittings bonuses you are requesting. By lobbying for a fix for a bug that actually wasn't a bug pre vehicle changes, and something that actually wasn't detrimental to gameplay since there was rarely anyone that actually spent the SP just to get ADS level 5 and they were only encountered every other match, people just destroyed the only good thing to having a gunner in an ADS.

Side gunners will fall out of relevance. The fitting costs and hit to defense will not account for an extra gunner and the necessary flight style to have effective gunners.

Bug or no bug; side guns on ADS will now be a huge Fail. Anyone can say it's a bug but the stacking existed even before the vehicle changes, the only thing that didn't exist was the Assault dropship/gal/cal bonus.

Good luck being relevant against tanks, good luck being relevant against other dropships and for all you gunners out there, good luck finding a pilot crazy enough to actually want to gimp himself just to have you.

---

Fiend: good luck getting CCP to change anything for fitting costs in ADS. It's not feesable and it will corrupt balance. The current bonuses are too strong to warrant another bonus to ADS. It's either keep the bonuses we have or sacrifice those for the fittings bonuses you are requesting. By lobbying for a fix for a bug that actually wasn't a bug pre vehicle changes, and something that actually wasn't detrimental to gameplay since there was rarely anyone that actually spent the SP just to get ADS level 5 and they were only encountered every other match, people just destroyed the only good thing to having a gunner in an ADS.

Where ADS pilots and gunners can co exist in harmony without abusing bugged mechanics to feel relevant.

Currently, fitting side turrets is far too taxing for a standard build, which is why most people will only do so if they're abusing the bugged pilot stacking mechanic. This, clearly, was never intended. However, it seems that it WAS indeed intended to have side guns. So, what's an easy fix?

Once Pilot stacking has been addressed in 2024 with the next client side patch, I propose an addition to the Assault Dropship Operation skill:

---

15% reduction to the PGU/CPU fitting cost of side turrets per level, to a maximum of 75% reduction. In addition, a very small buff to PGU/CPU of assault dropships.

---

These ships are intended to rain hell down upon the battlefield, but without the added (read: bugged) DPS of pilot stacking, there is very little incentive to risk your more expensive ship to do so. This would reward pilots who invest in the ADS skill while not buffing solo players who refuse to fit side turrets in order to have cheaper fits.

Seems like you want a bonus that helps incubus with missles...Obvious missle incubus pilot is obvious

Side gunners will fall out of relevance. The fitting costs and hit to defense will not account for an extra gunner and the necessary flight style to have effective gunners.

Bug or no bug; side guns on ADS will now be a huge Fail. Anyone can say it's a bug but the stacking existed even before the vehicle changes, the only thing that didn't exist was the Assault dropship/gal/cal bonus.

Good luck being relevant against tanks, good luck being relevant against other dropships and for all you gunners out there, good luck finding a pilot crazy enough to actually want to gimp himself just to have you.

---

Fiend: good luck getting CCP to change anything for fitting costs in ADS. It's not feesable and it will corrupt balance. The current bonuses are too strong to warrant another bonus to ADS. It's either keep the bonuses we have or sacrifice those for the fittings bonuses you are requesting. By lobbying for a fix for a bug that actually wasn't a bug pre vehicle changes, and something that actually wasn't detrimental to gameplay since there was rarely anyone that actually spent the SP just to get ADS level 5 and they were only encountered every other match, people just destroyed the only good thing to having a gunner in an ADS.

I'm probably one of the best railgun pilots in the game.

I'm not exactly sure how having reduced fitting to side turrets is a missile bonus....

Obvious troll is obvious....

[You are? neat I wonder where that puts me on the rankings :)

All I know is I've never once lost a railgun duel, my shots are always on mark, I've gone over 20 kills vs infantry with it in a number of matches, and I can keep on target even with the enemy ship flying above me :)

I also get plenty of mail complimenting my railgunning from all sorts of players, though maybe that's just cuz of my youtube lol.

Admittedly I barely play now, and I haven't played seriously in at least half a year now, but even just trolling around, texting while flying, surfing the web while flying and blaring music, I still out perform almost every incubus pilot I've ever come across.

I like the stacking "bug"

To me it makes sense that a player can "skill into" turrets and be even more effective.

It provides incentive for a vehicle to have small turrets when they actually become useful...like they are now with the stacking "bug"

Turrets are plenty useful without the bug. Without it, a pilot has to actually use his skill to maintain and track the target. Right now, almost every vehicle will die to a single pass from either maxed bugged turret. It dissolves the need for player skill and encourages cheap hit and run tactics because you can straight up destroy almost everything with a single pass.

It encourages less skilled players by making sure they have to stay on target less, and stay in the hot zone for shorter periods of time. It makes no sense for a turret to be pushed past its maximum capabilities just because someone else who has the same knowledge as you is manning them.

If they wanted to add in gunner specific skills that could be an idea, but adding RoF and Damage is a huge no no, and only promotes abuse.

Oh, and the "bug" is in fact a bug, as confirmed by CCP Rattati.

yea, I hear ya and can mostly agree

I simply like how with the way it currently is, it is an asset to have a gunner with "skills" in being a more effective gunner...that's some perspective, yes it may be "OP" but keep in mind that to do it properly, it takes coordination between multiple players as well at the SP sunk into those skills. A person cannot just jump on and "abuse" a mechanic/bug; it takes thought, SP investment and actually needs to me done simultaneously in game with those people who invested the thought, time and SP

It dissolves the need for player skill and encourages cheap hit and run tactics because you can straight up destroy almost everything with a single pass.

It encourages less skilled players by making sure they have to stay on target less, and stay in the hot zone for shorter periods of time.

I guess Im just used to my Incubus, particularly now, where if I sit still for even a moment I'm just a fireball waiting to happen. I have no bonus to missiles, and both blasters and rails are laughable vs infantry if you so much as wiggle your ship around.

Have you tried having two ginners with missiles and keeping a rail fit for your pilot gun?

No, because that would just be a god awful fit. Railgun requires me to be pretty precise and all up in vehicles grills, and my side missiles would only add marginal support while engaging enemy vehicles. Since you have to sit generally still for side missiles to be useful vs infantry (considering no RoF bonus), the slower, easier to hit incubus that takes bonus damage from everything under the sun would just be that much easier to send up in flames if I sat around trying to give my gunners shots while I twiddled my thumbs waiting for a target to appear for my rail.

So while I hunt vehicles with my rail, I'd be wasting two slots for my team with people just sitting in my guns staring at the sky, occasionally landing a hit on the enemy vehicle, but overall not contributing anything meaningful to my AV experience, while vastly reducing the EHP of my already rather vulnerable Incubus. It takes an Incubus significantly longer to accelerate up and away from a hover even with an AB than a Python with no AB does. Also, bonus damage, and the fact that the Incubus weak spot is more pronounced.

It's just all around better to use a front missile and switch to a front rail if vehicle presence is strong. On the rare occasions I bother with a side gun, I always equip a militia missile turret for myself and give my single gunner a rail, since blasters are still a joke.

I propose, that if there are 2 Commandos standing in close proximity (10m), then the 2nd Commando's skill bonus stacks, giving the latter a 20% Damage Bonus as opposed to a 10%.

If a 100% Damage Increase isn't game-breaking like some of the pilots in here would suggest, then surely a 20% Damage Increase wouldn't be either. After all, it does require 2 People right?

I was meaning more for anti infantry, I bet some good gunners would be able to do a decent job at suppression. I'm hearing your concerns tho, have you tried having some shock troopers in your ship to jump out and engage enemy av?

Side gunners will fall out of relevance. The fitting costs and hit to defense will not account for an extra gunner and the necessary flight style to have effective gunners.

Bug or no bug; side guns on ADS will now be a huge Fail. Anyone can say it's a bug but the stacking existed even before the vehicle changes, the only thing that didn't exist was the Assault dropship/gal/cal bonus.

Good luck being relevant against tanks, good luck being relevant against other dropships and for all you gunners out there, good luck finding a pilot crazy enough to actually want to gimp himself just to have you.

---

Fiend: good luck getting CCP to change anything for fitting costs in ADS. It's not feesable and it will corrupt balance. The current bonuses are too strong to warrant another bonus to ADS. It's either keep the bonuses we have or sacrifice those for the fittings bonuses you are requesting. By lobbying for a fix for a bug that actually wasn't a bug pre vehicle changes, and something that actually wasn't detrimental to gameplay since there was rarely anyone that actually spent the SP just to get ADS level 5 and they were only encountered every other match, people just destroyed the only good thing to having a gunner in an ADS.

Honestly ever since I decided to fully skill into the coffins that were Prometheus's, I've given up on team based DS play. I can never find people that want to just sit in my ship and fly around, and picking people up in an Incubus is just death half the time. You just can't get out fast enough and if you get hit by AV while down low, it's so much harder to recover. The maps are too small for it to really matter anyways.

On the off chance I run a side turret I usually just have them hop out, hack a point while I circle the area, then I pick them up as quick as I can and get out, but that's usually how I die. I don't even play anymore, this is just a bug that I've always despised with a passion, so seeing Rattati confirm it as a bug just tickled me pink is all.

Then your missing out on what makes dropships so much fun. Picking people up is always hard for any dropship. You have to have good shock troops to pull it off, and shouldn't have people just sitting in your dropship. Some maps are too small, on those I don't bother flying but the larger maps can still work and is quite fun when you do good drops.
I can't fly solo anymore, its too boring and lonley.

If you don't play anymore why post? I wish people who didn't play anymore wouldn't suggest things, they are effecting a game that they don't even play.

Where ADS pilots and gunners can co exist in harmony without abusing bugged mechanics to feel relevant.

Currently, fitting side turrets is far too taxing for a standard build, which is why most people will only do so if they're abusing the bugged pilot stacking mechanic. This, clearly, was never intended. However, it seems that it WAS indeed intended to have side guns. So, what's an easy fix?

Once Pilot stacking has been addressed in 2024 with the next client side patch, I propose an addition to the Assault Dropship Operation skill:

---

15% reduction to the PGU/CPU fitting cost of side turrets per level, to a maximum of 75% reduction. In addition, a very small buff to PGU/CPU of assault dropships.

---

These ships are intended to rain hell down upon the battlefield, but without the added (read: bugged) DPS of pilot stacking, there is very little incentive to risk your more expensive ship to do so. This would reward pilots who invest in the ADS skill while not buffing solo players who refuse to fit side turrets in order to have cheaper fits.

I think its a shame more ADS pilots are not in favour of buffing the generic dropships and giving them skills focused towards being tough transports and shooting platforms, it would make them relevant on the battlefield for more than just dropping uplinks at the start of a match, for people that love air to air combat they get something to shoot at, for people that love the teamwork of working with a dropship crew they get a craft more suited to the role without exploiting a bug.

I'm still butthurt about logi dropships. What you described is the logi dropship, or what it was supposed to be anyways.

Main reason I'm not in favor of buffing standard ships is: very small SP investment, buffed suicide dropships.

Logi DS was never supposed to be a Gun platform. It should have been a repair and resupply vehicle.

Where ADS pilots and gunners can co exist in harmony without abusing bugged mechanics to feel relevant.

Currently, fitting side turrets is far too taxing for a standard build, which is why most people will only do so if they're abusing the bugged pilot stacking mechanic. This, clearly, was never intended. However, it seems that it WAS indeed intended to have side guns. So, what's an easy fix?

Once Pilot stacking has been addressed in 2024 with the next client side patch, I propose an addition to the Assault Dropship Operation skill:

---

15% reduction to the PGU/CPU fitting cost of side turrets per level, to a maximum of 75% reduction. In addition, a very small buff to PGU/CPU of assault dropships.

---

These ships are intended to rain hell down upon the battlefield, but without the added (read: bugged) DPS of pilot stacking, there is very little incentive to risk your more expensive ship to do so. This would reward pilots who invest in the ADS skill while not buffing solo players who refuse to fit side turrets in order to have cheaper fits.

HELL NO. I dont want flying tanks with 5000HP on armor. And there are allready fitting optimisation skills.

-Small turret operation: 2% less PG+CPU per lvl
-small turret fitting optimisation: 3% less PG+CPU per lvl

So now lets have a look what you just proposed:
75% from the ADS skillbook+10% small+15% optimastion= 100% fitting reduction on a ADS.

You just want to have a brick tanked dropship and 3 guns on it which each will require 0PG+CPU. And people call skill stacking broken.