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The HP difference between assaults and scouts need to increase

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Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10523	Posted - 2014.06.29 13:45:00 - [1] - Quote It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1580	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:28:00 - [2] - Quote I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10527	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:41:00 - [3] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other. I am warry of giving assaults another equipment slot. Scouts are already in dangerous territorty of replacing logistics. It's already happening. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1581	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:47:00 - [4] - Quote fair enough, was just an optional idea that I was throwing out there for discussion. Maybe it could be balanced out, and maybe it would encroach on logi territory too much, just thought I would add it. Definitely need to have more hp/regen, any other ideas for improving upon the assault suits versatility? Or do you feel its already pretty versatile?
pa ck G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 31	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:49:00 - [5] - Quote CCP read this Cat is right Lone Wolf -Assault CK.0
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10534	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:49:00 - [6] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: fair enough, was just an optional idea that I was throwing out there for discussion. Maybe it could be balanced out, and maybe it would encroach on logi territory too much, just thought I would add it. Definitely need to have more hp/regen, any other ideas for improving upon the assault suits versatility? Or do you feel its already pretty versatile? Well, good weapon bonuses would help a lot. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 353	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:52:00 - [7] - Quote I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Izlare Lenix BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 751	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:52:00 - [8] - Quote Assaults should also get a damage bonus, maybe 1% per level, so at proto it's half the bonus of a commando. This would give it something scouts can't do better without stepping on commandos toes. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10537	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:00:00 - [9] - Quote Cyzad4 wrote: I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. I've been running assaults since my first match in DUST, so no difference there. If you look at the advantages scouts have, can you seriously say what you just said with a straight face? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 353	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:12:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cyzad4 wrote: I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. I've been running assaults since my first match in DUST, so no difference there. If you look at the advantages scouts have, can you seriously say what you just said with a straight face? :-l <-- yep could just be I'm used to perpetually running borked suits tho lol and maybe using the terms "good place" rather loosely, perhaps "slightly less **** place" would've been more appropriate. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10537	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:16:00 - [11] - Quote Cyzad4 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cyzad4 wrote: I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. I've been running assaults since my first match in DUST, so no difference there. If you look at the advantages scouts have, can you seriously say what you just said with a straight face? :-l <-- yep could just be I'm used to perpetually running borked suits tho lol and maybe using the terms "good place" rather loosely, perhaps "slightly less **** place" would've been more appropriate. heh Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2648	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:21:00 - [12] - Quote I was thinking a ROF or DMG bonus. Or both. But I don't mean like OP percentages. Just enough to make an assault have a role. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3357	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:35:00 - [13] - Quote Oh Great Overlord King of the Space Cats.... The Amarr Empire demands that after every suggestion thread you make you end it with the following words "Right Meow!" Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 996	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:57:00 - [14] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other. I could agree to more HP but high regen makes more sense on a scout because of the lone wolf thing...what assaults should get is some sort of offensive bonus like higher RoF or a second LW Slot (like its suposeto be in Legion) or a second grenade slot... And of course PG/CPU need to be in line with the other suits. BTW the speed difference is not very big compared to HP advantage between scout and Assaults...
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10542	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:00:00 - [15] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other. I could agree to more HP but high regen makes more sense on a scout because of the lone wolf thing...what assaults should get is some sort of offensive bonus like higher RoF or a second LW Slot (like its suposeto be in Legion) or a second grenade slot... And of course PG/CPU need to be in line with the other suits. BTW the speed difference is not very big compared to HP advantage between scout and Assaults... Speed isn't the only thing scouts have over assaults. Anyway, it makes PERFECT sense to give assaults high regen. They're the first responders, the unit that creates the frontlines, pushes them and destroys them. You can't have that unit sitting for 2 minutes waiting to get back to full health, if the enemy is attacking somewhere, and they're wounded, they either have to waste time to find a logi or sit it out until they can respond. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 752	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:08:00 - [16] - Quote yes this is how scouts were balanced a long time ago. scouts used to have the ewar advantage but when they were seen they were paper thin and lost in a head up gun fight. i run caldari assault and when i fight a caldari scout head up he should not have the same HP and be faster then my assault you can't have both. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2649	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:09:00 - [17] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: yes this is how scouts were balanced a long time ago. scouts used to have the ewar advantage but when they were seen they were paper thin and lost in a head up gun fight. i run caldari assault and when i fight a caldari scout head up he should not have the same HP and be faster then my assault you can't have both. Also 2 equipment. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3435	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:09:00 - [18] - Quote I have been saying this for so long. A Simple ehp buff to assaults could really help the suit. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
VikingCheech iBUN Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:41:00 - [19] - Quote +1 i agree with cat merc there shouldent be scouts running around with 600+ armour decent reps and everything else thats good about them ninja killing most people they come across. Makes me so angry when they kill me :p
Hobo on Fire Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 292	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:46:00 - [20] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: I could agree to more HP but high regen makes more sense on a scout because of the lone wolf thing...what assaults should get is some sort of offensive bonus like higher RoF or a second LW Slot (like its suposeto be in Legion) or a second grenade slot... And of course PG/CPU need to be in line with the other suits. BTW the speed difference is not very big compared to HP advantage between scout and Assaults... Just because your suit is designed for "lone wolf" use doesn't mean it should be superior to other suits. That's exactly the reason so many assault players run as scouts nowadays... they take the better lone wolf suit and use it as part of a team. Scouts are about speed and stealth, not survivablity. If they get hurt, they have advantages to disengage and find a place to heal up. Assaults are frontline troops though, they have to stand and fight in situations where a scout can slip away. They [i]should[/] be tougher to kill in a stand up fight. I think assaults should all get both an offensive and defensive racial bonus, in addition to the class bonus for light weapons. Lets give each assault a bonus for that races defensive modules: Caldari get an HP buff for shield extenders (like they used to) Gallente get a Regen Rate for Armor Reppers Amarr get an HP buff for Armor Plates Minmatar get a bonus for Shield Rechargers/Regulators Ideally, I'd like to see changes to some of the Assault weapon bonuses too; The Amarr bonus I actually like, and I see legit value for the Minmatar magazine capacity bonus. I'm less sure about the Gallente hip fire dispersion, and the reload bonus for Caldari assaults is just plain dumb since the rapid reload skills already exist.

Schecter 666 Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:47:00 - [21] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary you seriously want to add 200hp to my amarr assault suit just so I can run around with 800hp of armour on an adv level suit so you can complain about that? ok then.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 32	Posted - 2014.06.29 18:22:00 - [22] - Quote Schecter 666 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary you seriously want to add 200hp to my amarr assault suit just so I can run around with 800hp of armour on an adv level suit so you can complain about that? ok then. We must not have more passive HP, (We = assault) We must have more regen (armor or shield (each race)), more stamina, more stamina regen, + 1 module on each suit, better race assault bonus (for caldari and gallente; the Amarr's and the Minmatar's are good). More DPS. That's all. More HP isn't a solution, we could NOT be better than scout if we get more HP... They will stay speeder, with more regen........and the cloack.... We need something that make our a UNIQUE role ! I think the idea to get 1% (a level) damage on EACH light/sidearm weapon (for each race) could be good for assault. That's my opinion. What's your's ?
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10558	Posted - 2014.06.29 19:18:00 - [23] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Schecter 666 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary you seriously want to add 200hp to my amarr assault suit just so I can run around with 800hp of armour on an adv level suit so you can complain about that? ok then. We must not have more passive HP, (We = assault) We must have more regen (armor or shield (each race)), more stamina, more stamina regen, + 1 module on each suit, better race assault bonus (for caldari and gallente; the Amarr's and the Minmatar's are good). More DPS. That's all. More HP isn't a solution, we could NOT be better than scout if we get more HP... They will stay speeder, with more regen........and the cloack.... We need something that make our a UNIQUE role ! I think the idea to get 1% (a level) damage on EACH light/sidearm weapon (for each race) could be good for assault. That's my opinion. What's your's ? If a scout can get the same HP as an Assault, Assaults will remain ****. It's really that simple. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
I-Shayz-I I----------I 3828	Posted - 2014.06.29 20:48:00 - [24] - Quote It's really just the fact that scouts can tank so much HP. I mean why should a caldari scout be able to have 400+ shields? And don't get me started with "400 shield is not even that much"... A scout's HP is supposed to be in their stealth and strafing abilities. It's like giving a heavy the same movement speed and hitbox as an assault and calling it balanced -_- 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
The Eristic Dust 90210 496	Posted - 2014.06.29 21:15:00 - [25] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: It's really just the fact that scouts can tank so much HP. I mean why should a caldari scout be able to have 400+ shields? And don't get me started with "400 shield is not even that much"... A scout's HP is supposed to be in their stealth and strafing abilities. It's like giving a heavy the same movement speed and hitbox as an assault and calling it balanced -_- I agree. I'd rather see something like 3x movement penalty for non-ferro/reactive plates (or factor it in as a stacking penalty, so you could use one normal plate with regular penalty, but get hit harder and harder for each additional plate, so much so that you'd be significantly slower than an assault) and an increase in scan profile (or maybe increased resource cost? Significantly reduced recharge rate?) per stacked extender on light frames. Could also penalize based on tier, so basic extenders/plates penalize less than complex when stacked. It just plain makes sense that light frames should be less able to comfortably fit modules that represent such MASSIVE gains relative to their base HP. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Atiim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 10012	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:51:00 - [26] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Assaults should also get a damage bonus, maybe 1% per level, so at proto it's half the bonus of a commando. This would give it something scouts can't do better without stepping on commandos toes. Then you'd make the Assault suit a worse version of the Commando. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 99	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:54:00 - [27] - Quote one of the best ideas i've seen was increasing HP for assault suits the entire four races could use an additional slot or two as well.
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1678	Posted - 2014.06.30 04:13:00 - [28] - Quote Ty for bring this subject up. I also have a post going. I am glad to see others trying to bring this problem to light. Keep up the good fight. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
Izlare Lenix BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 753	Posted - 2014.07.01 06:00:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: Assaults should also get a damage bonus, maybe 1% per level, so at proto it's half the bonus of a commando. This would give it something scouts can't do better without stepping on commandos toes. Then you'd make the Assault suit a worse version of the Commando. This damage bonus would be in addition to an hp buff of some kind. With slightly more hp, and a built in complex damage mod, I would pick assault over commando any day. Commandos are too chunky and too slow. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 333	Posted - 2014.07.01 06:10:00 - [30] - Quote Yep my scout Ak.0 can get 804 armor O.O I don't even know if the assault can get that much..... Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"

Lynn Beck EnvyUs. 1979	Posted - 2014.07.01 07:51:00 - [31] - Quote The minmatar assault bonus is there to enable you the ability to hipfire spray more reliably, same with the Gallente's hipfire, it allows you brilliant damage application on select targets. Spray n Pray is a Sentinel's job, don't be saying dispersion reduction is BAD, because Y da F do we have SS? For caldari, i believe a Kick bonus could be in order, allowing them to reasonably hipfire that monstrous Rail rifle. Assaults need to, in one way or another, be able to regenerate better than scouts, otherwiseit's just a **** Heavy. Heavies' weakness is lowregen, thus requiring either special builds, or a logi. Assaults have very, very marginally better shield regen, which is still HALF a scout's. If a scout feels like assaulting, he csn fit 1 basic recharger, and become literally unstoppable, because when the assault backs out to regen, the scout will be already at full HP. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
The Eristic Dust 90210 509	Posted - 2014.07.01 09:24:00 - [32] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Yep my scout Ak.0 can get 804 armor O.O I don't even know if the assault can get that much..... ~1k HP max for Amarr Scout (slightly less for Gal), 1261 I think for Amarr Assault (almost 900 armor; once again, Gal not far behind but only in theory, as it lacks the PG to pull off 100% proto HP mods afaik, has to drop one Cx Shield to not exceed PG with a Boundless CR). The problem isn't Assault hp. Any buff will put the armor tankers in particular well into Adv heavy territory, which would lead to pretty much the same problem we have with Scouts vs Assaults now, just Assaults vs Commandos/Heavies (HMG aside). The solution has to be to penalize major HP stacking on light frames, making it massively disadvantageous to run multiple regular plates and extenders, if not impossible. Scouts ~200-450, Assaults and Logis ~400-1200 (big swing, but this is including all tiers and mediums should be far and away the most varied group, and most will be somewhere in the middle, which doesn't happen with scouts at the moment, due to lack of good reason to avoid brick tanking), Commandos ~700-1300, Heavies ~1000 to INFINITY AND BEYYOOOOOONNDDD... sorry, got carried away. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 6174	Posted - 2014.07.01 12:23:00 - [33] - Quote Personaly I think this all circles back to the brick tanking problem, tank with relatively little penalty, no one complained about my shield tanked Minja. (unless they got stabbed/MDerd/REed) That and the cloaks ability to fire immediately after decloak made us more of a 'light assault' class. Another problem: What's a 'scout' in dust 514, a 'logi', a 'heavy', ask 100 players and you'll likely get 100 answers. There's no base for our classes, CCP seemed scared to put down restrictions for the classes, leading to heavies with rifles, fast tanks, tanked scouts, slayer logies ect ect ect. I've seen pleanty of these things in this thread alone: Assault should be faster, have more stamina, and better regen than scouts. What? If I remember correctly you've used scouts so you should know that alot of the bonuses you've listed need to be coupled with mods, such as scanning range amps and kincats, or those bonuses are minimal at best. (or downright useless) And I'm not going to even start with how bloody difficult it is to fit a proper suit with a proto cloak on any scout. (especially my Minja) I'm not saying the scouts don't need to be knocked down a peg, I'm certainly not saying that the assault dosen't need help, but what I AM saying is that what you're trying to do is a short sighted solution. To others in this thread: Just try to fix the core of the problem before you go screwing over peoples' play styles, CCP does enough of that for you. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10605	Posted - 2014.07.01 13:44:00 - [34] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Personaly I think this all circles back to the brick tanking problem, tank with relatively little penalty, no one complained about my shield tanked Minja. (unless they got stabbed/MDerd/REed) That and the cloaks ability to fire immediately after decloak made us more of a 'light assault' class. Another problem: What's a 'scout' in dust 514, a 'logi', a 'heavy', ask 100 players and you'll likely get 100 answers. There's no base for our classes, CCP seemed scared to put down restrictions for the classes, leading to heavies with rifles, fast tanks, tanked scouts, slayer logies ect ect ect. I've seen pleanty of these things in this thread alone: Assault should be faster, have more stamina, and better regen than scouts. What? If I remember correctly you've used scouts so you should know that alot of the bonuses you've listed need to be coupled with mods, such as scanning range amps and kincats, or those bonuses are minimal at best. (or downright useless) And I'm not going to even start with how bloody difficult it is to fit a proper suit with a proto cloak on any scout. (especially my Minja) I'm not saying the scouts don't need to be knocked down a peg, I'm certainly not saying that the assault dosen't need help, but what I AM saying is that what you're trying to do is a short sighted solution. To others in this thread: Just try to fix the core of the problem before you go screwing over peoples' play styles, CCP does enough of that for you. So, a full 1m/s faster speed than most assaults needs a mod? Very high CPU/PG? (The minja is the only one without absurdly higher CPU/PG, and yet it's still higher than Caldari/Gallente assaults) The ability to evade advanced scanners for free? The ability to scan at 30m range without any mods on, and to be able to scan down all units bar scouts? 50hp/s shield regeneration? (On Caldari) Smaller hitbox? More stamina and faster stamina regen? None of these require any mods on, and they're all huge advantages over an assault. The core of the problem cannot be fixed without rethinking the entire game, this is a bandaid, and like any bandaid, it's not perfect. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10605	Posted - 2014.07.01 13:46:00 - [35] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Yep my scout Ak.0 can get 804 armor O.O I don't even know if the assault can get that much..... ~1k HP max for Amarr Scout (slightly less for Gal), 1261 I think for Amarr Assault (almost 900 armor; once again, Gal not far behind but only in theory, as it lacks the PG to pull off 100% proto HP mods afaik, has to drop one Cx Shield to not exceed PG with a Boundless CR). The problem isn't Assault hp. Any buff will put the armor tankers in particular well into Adv heavy territory, which would lead to pretty much the same problem we have with Scouts vs Assaults now, just Assaults vs Commandos/Heavies (HMG aside). The solution has to be to penalize major HP stacking on light frames, making it massively disadvantageous to run multiple regular plates and extenders, if not impossible. Scouts ~200-450, Assaults and Logis ~400-1200 (big swing, but this is including all tiers and mediums should be far and away the most varied group, and most will be somewhere in the middle, which doesn't happen with scouts at the moment, due to lack of good reason to avoid brick tanking), Commandos ~700-1300, Heavies ~1000 to INFINITY AND BEYYOOOOOONNDDD... sorry, got carried away. Those numbers are already possible now. Guess why they're not common? Because the speed reduction and lack of regen is not worth it. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
IVIaster LUKE Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 583	Posted - 2014.07.01 13:48:00 - [36] - Quote Sipping tea on a hill..while firing weapon over yonder. MOVE UP! LOL what's my Cal Ass reload bonus gonna do....
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 6178	Posted - 2014.07.01 18:31:00 - [37] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Personaly I think this all circles back to the brick tanking problem, tank with relatively little penalty, no one complained about my shield tanked Minja. (unless they got stabbed/MDerd/REed) That and the cloaks ability to fire immediately after decloak made us more of a 'light assault' class. Another problem: What's a 'scout' in dust 514, a 'logi', a 'heavy', ask 100 players and you'll likely get 100 answers. There's no base for our classes, CCP seemed scared to put down restrictions for the classes, leading to heavies with rifles, fast tanks, tanked scouts, slayer logies ect ect ect. I've seen pleanty of these things in this thread alone: Assault should be faster, have more stamina, and better regen than scouts. What? If I remember correctly you've used scouts so you should know that alot of the bonuses you've listed need to be coupled with mods, such as scanning range amps and kincats, or those bonuses are minimal at best. (or downright useless) And I'm not going to even start with how bloody difficult it is to fit a proper suit with a proto cloak on any scout. (especially my Minja) I'm not saying the scouts don't need to be knocked down a peg, I'm certainly not saying that the assault dosen't need help, but what I AM saying is that what you're trying to do is a short sighted solution. To others in this thread: Just try to fix the core of the problem before you go screwing over peoples' play styles, CCP does enough of that for you. Yes, I have used scouts. And I also use assaults quite a bit, so I know that while for a scout these advantages might seem minor, to an assault they're huge. A full 1m/s faster speed than most assaults needs a mod? Very high CPU/PG? (The minja is the only one without absurdly higher CPU/PG, and yet it's still higher than Caldari/Gallente assaults) The ability to evade advanced scanners for free? The ability to scan at 30m range without any mods on, and to be able to scan down all units bar scouts? 50hp/s shield regeneration? (On Caldari) Smaller hitbox? More stamina and faster stamina regen? None of these require any mods on, and they're all huge advantages over an assault. The core of the problem cannot be fixed without rethinking the entire game, this is a bandaid, and like any bandaid, it's not perfect. 1m/s is nothing, since meters=feet in this game. (That and the scout has hollow bones for this very reason) The CPU/PG I can agree on, but is somewhat necessary for two equipment slots. (That yes we do use for things like REs) and the cloak's massive output. Evading scanners comes with being a stealth unit, it's like complaining about the commando's damage bonuses. 30 meters without mods? I wish, no scout does that not even the ganja anymore. Caldari are shield tankers, always have been, all of their suits have higher regen/ lower shield regen times, go check if you havent. Small frame= small hitbox, it used to be larger as you ran, everyone called bullshit, because that's bullshit. If you know much about the lore you know why our stamina/regen is so high= two hearts. Cat you're not stupid, and you know I'm not (completely) stupid, so can we agree not to try and bullshit each other in the future? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10608	Posted - 2014.07.01 18:42:00 - [38] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Personaly I think this all circles back to the brick tanking problem, tank with relatively little penalty, no one complained about my shield tanked Minja. (unless they got stabbed/MDerd/REed) That and the cloaks ability to fire immediately after decloak made us more of a 'light assault' class. Another problem: What's a 'scout' in dust 514, a 'logi', a 'heavy', ask 100 players and you'll likely get 100 answers. There's no base for our classes, CCP seemed scared to put down restrictions for the classes, leading to heavies with rifles, fast tanks, tanked scouts, slayer logies ect ect ect. I've seen pleanty of these things in this thread alone: Assault should be faster, have more stamina, and better regen than scouts. What? If I remember correctly you've used scouts so you should know that alot of the bonuses you've listed need to be coupled with mods, such as scanning range amps and kincats, or those bonuses are minimal at best. (or downright useless) And I'm not going to even start with how bloody difficult it is to fit a proper suit with a proto cloak on any scout. (especially my Minja) I'm not saying the scouts don't need to be knocked down a peg, I'm certainly not saying that the assault dosen't need help, but what I AM saying is that what you're trying to do is a short sighted solution. To others in this thread: Just try to fix the core of the problem before you go screwing over peoples' play styles, CCP does enough of that for you. Yes, I have used scouts. And I also use assaults quite a bit, so I know that while for a scout these advantages might seem minor, to an assault they're huge. A full 1m/s faster speed than most assaults needs a mod? Very high CPU/PG? (The minja is the only one without absurdly higher CPU/PG, and yet it's still higher than Caldari/Gallente assaults) The ability to evade advanced scanners for free? The ability to scan at 30m range without any mods on, and to be able to scan down all units bar scouts? 50hp/s shield regeneration? (On Caldari) Smaller hitbox? More stamina and faster stamina regen? None of these require any mods on, and they're all huge advantages over an assault. The core of the problem cannot be fixed without rethinking the entire game, this is a bandaid, and like any bandaid, it's not perfect. 1m/s is nothing, since meters=feet in this game. (That and the scout has hollow bones for this very reason) It doesn't matter if 1m = 1 foot in the game, it's still a unit of distance, and the weapon ranges are bound by those units. The CPU/PG I can agree on, but is somewhat necessary for two equipment slots. (That yes we do use for things like REs) and the cloak's massive output. Evading scanners comes with being a stealth unit, it's like complaining about the commando's damage bonuses. Also:Who uses ADV scanners? Also Also: Gallogi bonus is made for countering scouts, try to get under a Gallogi scanner, I dare you. 30 meters without mods? I wish, no scout does that not even the ganja anymore. Caldari are shield tankers, always have been, all of their suits have higher regen/ lower shield regen times, go check if you havent. Small frame= small hitbox, it used to be larger as you ran, everyone called bullshit, because that's bullshit. If you know much about the lore you know why our stamina/regen is so high= two hearts. Cat you're not stupid, and you know I'm not (completely) stupid, so can we agree not to try and bullshit each other in the future? Sigh... I'm trying to explain to you that ALL of these must come at a cost. The cost scouts pay in comparison to assaults are not enough. 1m/s is a lot, there's a reason I prefer running a kincat on my assault over a second repairer. It doesn't matter if 1m = 1foot in the game, it's still a unit of distance whatever you call it, and weapon ranges are bound by that unit of distance. Scouts do not need the super high CPU/PG for the two equipment if not using tank modules. (Except for kin cats and codebreakers, those take absurdly high amounts of PG) While ADV scanners are uncommon in the land of proto, they exist, and they can be a pain in the arse for an assault trying to flank. The base profile also allows you to escape the base precision of other scouts, unlike assaults who can be detected by any scout. Gallente scout has 20m base scan range (according to the SDE). The scan range bonus gives 50% when at level V. 20 * 1.5 = 30m. So what if Caldari are shield tankers? That's still +20hp/s and less delays than the Caldari Assault. Sure, small frame = Small hitbox, but that's an advantage. Again, advantages need to come at a cost, scouts do not pay enough. (That or assaults are underpayed) Same thing with stamina. You're not stupid, so I hope you understand that what I'm saying is that Assaults have no real advantages. Higher base HP and one extra slot does not compensate for all the advantages scouts have that make them better in combat overall. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2044	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:12:00 - [39] - Quote Assaults naturally have a damage bonus.. Indirectly but everyone has a DPS bonus in which they can put down more then a scout easier.. They also get an extra slot and more HP. The problem is they can't use that extra HP and slot because their fitting demands are so harsh. The Bonuses for fitting their specific weapons where supposed to help with this... But as everyone said to CCP before 1.8 Implementation...it wasn't enough as the suits where already fitting challenged to start with. Assault suits are fine except they need alot more Base PG and CPU starting right from the Basic -> ADV -> Proto levels.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10608	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:15:00 - [40] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Assaults naturally have a damage bonus.. Indirectly but everyone has a DPS bonus in which they can put down more then a scout easier.. They also get an extra slot and more HP. The problem is they can't use that extra HP and slot because their fitting demands are so harsh. The Bonuses for fitting their specific weapons where supposed to help with this... But as everyone said to CCP before 1.8 Implementation...it wasn't enough as the suits where already fitting challenged to start with. Assault suits are fine except they need alot more Base PG and CPU starting right from the Basic -> ADV -> Proto levels. The damage bonuses are not enough. Fact: The Amarr Assault has the highest CPU/PG among the assaults, clocking in at about scout levels, and it has THE best Assault bonus out of the four. They can fit almost everything (if not everything) proto. Why are they so rare then? (Outside of militia scrubs) Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 6181	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:28:00 - [41] - Quote Hmm, I think we both know we're not going to reach an agreement here, our opinions on the matter are different and that's fine. For what we agree on wholeheartedly= Scouts have too much HP, Assaults aren't good enough at assaulting. Scouts=Ewar/Biotics Assaults=Shooting things The Assaults' CPU/PG reduction skills reflect it's role. The Scouts' Ewar skills and high Biotics reflect it's role. Assaults do in fact need better racial skills and slot layout. Scouts shouldn't be able to tank and be fast. We agree on these things yes? CCP is already looking at passive scanning, also once again racial bonuses for ganja, what we DON'T want is for the scout to revert back to days past. Things like the scouts' regen are there for a reson: to get back what tank they have due to (supposedly) using their slots foe things like code breakers and dampening. Things like scouts' stamina and speed are there for a similar reason= to play on the suit's strengths and cover weaknesses. Mess with these and all you're doing is punishing those who scout to scout, brick tankers will still brick tank. I'm not sure if you do PC, but I'll tell you now going in as a true scout is no fun..... So yes ditch the brick tanking, but mess with the scouts' core gameplay and you'll put them back in a hole. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10608	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:36:00 - [42] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Hmm, I think we both know we're not going to reach an agreement here, our opinions on the matter are different and that's fine. For what we agree on wholeheartedly= Scouts have too much HP, Assaults aren't good enough at assaulting. Scouts=Ewar/Biotics Assaults=Shooting things The Assaults' CPU/PG reduction skills reflect it's role. The Scouts' Ewar skills and high Biotics reflect it's role. Assaults do in fact need better racial skills and slot layout. Scouts shouldn't be able to tank and be fast. We agree on these things yes? CCP is already looking at passive scanning, also once again racial bonuses for ganja, what we DON'T want is for the scout to revert back to days past. Things like the scouts' regen are there for a reson: to get back what tank they have due to (supposedly) using their slots foe things like code breakers and dampening. Things like scouts' stamina and speed are there for a similar reason= to play on the suit's strengths and cover weaknesses. Mess with these and all you're doing is punishing those who scout to scout, brick tankers will still brick tank. I'm not sure if you do PC, but I'll tell you now going in as a true scout is no fun..... So yes ditch the brick tanking, but mess with the scouts' core gameplay and you'll put them back in a hole. Yes we agree on those. Though to be more specific, the assault should be the first responder to evolving threats. Example: -Scout detected a hoard of enemies flanking -Assaults come in and create a wall of defense -Scouts takeout targets of value like logistics -Heavies and logis get in and set up their position for a more concentrated defense Being a first responder requires a good balance of HP, mobility, regeneration and damage. I wasn't saying nerf scout speed and stamina or EWAR, I was just saying that those are advantages over an assault, and they need to come at a price, a price that is currently too low. You could increase the price by nerfing scouts, or buffing assaults. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2018	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:41:00 - [43] - Quote Simple. Allow Assaults to feast on the bodies of the fallen to regain health. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 341	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:53:00 - [44] - Quote A post I don't think anyone saw about one way to give Assaults a meaningful role as self-sustained fighters. But in reality, the system cannot be repaired sufficiently to achieve balance. Like Cat said earlier, the core mechanics are at fault, but since DUST 514 development is done, we can't fix those. I believe the core problem revolves around uniform Suit bonuses and penalties Surviving Dust: Tutorial Series
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad. 457	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:56:00 - [45] - Quote ROF bonus for assaults would be not only good, but also great fun.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 6182	Posted - 2014.07.01 20:02:00 - [46] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Hmm, I think we both know we're not going to reach an agreement here, our opinions on the matter are different and that's fine. For what we agree on wholeheartedly= Scouts have too much HP, Assaults aren't good enough at assaulting. Scouts=Ewar/Biotics Assaults=Shooting things The Assaults' CPU/PG reduction skills reflect it's role. The Scouts' Ewar skills and high Biotics reflect it's role. Assaults do in fact need better racial skills and slot layout. Scouts shouldn't be able to tank and be fast. We agree on these things yes? CCP is already looking at passive scanning, also once again racial bonuses for ganja, what we DON'T want is for the scout to revert back to days past. Things like the scouts' regen are there for a reson: to get back what tank they have due to (supposedly) using their slots foe things like code breakers and dampening. Things like scouts' stamina and speed are there for a similar reason= to play on the suit's strengths and cover weaknesses. Mess with these and all you're doing is punishing those who scout to scout, brick tankers will still brick tank. I'm not sure if you do PC, but I'll tell you now going in as a true scout is no fun..... So yes ditch the brick tanking, but mess with the scouts' core gameplay and you'll put them back in a hole. Yes we agree on those. Though to be more specific, the assault should be the first responder to evolving threats, as well as general purpose grunts of the battlefield. Example: -Scout detected a hoard of enemies flanking -Assaults come in and create a wall of defense -Scouts takeout targets of value like logistics -Heavies and logis get in and set up their position for a more concentrated defense -Assaults push forward with the help of the Heavy line behind them Being a first responder requires a good balance of HP, mobility, regeneration and damage. I wasn't saying nerf scout speed and stamina or EWAR, I was just saying that those are advantages over an assault, and they need to come at a price, a price that is currently too low. You could increase the price by nerfing scouts, or buffing assaults. Assaults already have good mobility, but they're lacking in damage, HP and regeneration. Just to make it clear, I am of the opinion that if a scout is stuck in 1v1 combat with an assault at equal skill levels, and the scout didn't do a sneak attack or anything like that, the assault should win 99% of the time. The 1% being hit detection screw ups. I know that you're not trying to nerf anything but (this is gonna sound really bad) when people like you, mustard, and myself make threads like this others take note, and most of the time go off making threads of their own with less than nobel intentions. And we both know there are far too many factors to be stating numbers like that. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10608	Posted - 2014.07.01 20:11:00 - [47] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Hmm, I think we both know we're not going to reach an agreement here, our opinions on the matter are different and that's fine. For what we agree on wholeheartedly= Scouts have too much HP, Assaults aren't good enough at assaulting. Scouts=Ewar/Biotics Assaults=Shooting things The Assaults' CPU/PG reduction skills reflect it's role. The Scouts' Ewar skills and high Biotics reflect it's role. Assaults do in fact need better racial skills and slot layout. Scouts shouldn't be able to tank and be fast. We agree on these things yes? CCP is already looking at passive scanning, also once again racial bonuses for ganja, what we DON'T want is for the scout to revert back to days past. Things like the scouts' regen are there for a reson: to get back what tank they have due to (supposedly) using their slots foe things like code breakers and dampening. Things like scouts' stamina and speed are there for a similar reason= to play on the suit's strengths and cover weaknesses. Mess with these and all you're doing is punishing those who scout to scout, brick tankers will still brick tank. I'm not sure if you do PC, but I'll tell you now going in as a true scout is no fun..... So yes ditch the brick tanking, but mess with the scouts' core gameplay and you'll put them back in a hole. Yes we agree on those. Though to be more specific, the assault should be the first responder to evolving threats, as well as general purpose grunts of the battlefield. Example: -Scout detected a hoard of enemies flanking -Assaults come in and create a wall of defense -Scouts takeout targets of value like logistics -Heavies and logis get in and set up their position for a more concentrated defense -Assaults push forward with the help of the Heavy line behind them Being a first responder requires a good balance of HP, mobility, regeneration and damage. I wasn't saying nerf scout speed and stamina or EWAR, I was just saying that those are advantages over an assault, and they need to come at a price, a price that is currently too low. You could increase the price by nerfing scouts, or buffing assaults. Assaults already have good mobility, but they're lacking in damage, HP and regeneration. Just to make it clear, I am of the opinion that if a scout is stuck in 1v1 combat with an assault at equal skill levels, and the scout didn't do a sneak attack or anything like that, the assault should win 99% of the time. The 1% being hit detection screw ups. I know that you're not trying to nerf anything but (this is gonna sound really bad) when people like you, mustard, and myself make threads like this others take note, and most of the time go off making threads of their own with less than nobel intentions. And we both know there are far too many factors to be stating numbers like that. Well, to put it into better prespective. Just like an assault dies to a heavy 99% of the time when in direct 1v1 combat assuming same skill level, so should the relationship between a scout and an assault be. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Sarus Rambo Direct Action Resources 172	Posted - 2014.07.01 20:50:00 - [48] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Well, to put it into better prespective. Just like an assault dies to a heavy 99% of the time when in direct 1v1 combat assuming same skill level, so should the relationship between a scout and an assault be. This is what id like to see, a sort of rock, paper, scissors approach to balance. Heavy frames kill mediums and other heavies, Medium frames kill mediums and scouts, light frames kill lights and heavies. Pretty simple, you have your weakness and your strengths. Certain frames (like commando as well as scout) really inject themselves into other roles they really shouldn't be in. This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 493	Posted - 2014.07.01 20:56:00 - [49] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Oh Great Overlord King of the Space Cats.... The Amarr Empire demands that after every suggestion thread you must end it with the following words "Right Meow!" Only if you address Cat as "your meowjesty" in the future... Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 152	Posted - 2014.07.01 21:11:00 - [50] - Quote I agree that assaults need buffs to hp and regen. Keep the bonuses and slots as they are (ok, maybe a slight bonus buff). I just wish we could have these threads without a load of misleading anti-scout propaganda or false statements (that I generously believe are just due to people's lack of knowledge or understanding). For the most part i'm not talking about the OP here btw. It is true that, as soon as an assault tries to fit anything other than hp or damage a scout will be able to out perform them by fitting hp mods. Additional hp and regen should fix this by allowing assaults to fit biotics, regen or EWAR whilst still maintaining an hp advantage over hp stacked scouts. As long as assaults don't get the ability to be a better scout than a scout, or a better heavy than a heavy, there shouldn't be a problem. I also don't feel assaults are quite as bad as some people make out. Small steps are the way forward, as many people have said over and over again. Sweeping buffs/nerfs are not good for the game. The game has changed, in the past the only important mods were hp and damage. Various welcome changes have made speed, regen and EWAR worthwhile. Whilst this is great for variety in the game, it has left assaults at a disadvantage. In hindsight, if you cast your mind back to early uprising, back when shield tanking was king. CCP decided to buff armor mods. This combined with aim assist made armor tanking superior for a long time. Recent buffs to shield mods, along with various changes that have improved the worth of regen and speed (as I said above), have done a lot to restore balance between armor and shields. The trouble is, both these mod types have been significantly buffed over time. The strength of hp mods is what allows scouts to challenge assaults at their role. If CCP had just decided back then to nerf complex shield extenders, instead of buffing armor and later buffing other shield mods, things would be much more balanced, in my opinion. Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

castba Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 502	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:08:00 - [51] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: ROF bonus for assaults would be not only good, but also great fun. Yes, but how does this benefit laser users? Faster damage increase? Can you imagine how quickly it would melt suits?
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 869	Posted - 2014.07.02 07:47:00 - [52] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary And a slight speed buff too* It seems like you got this idea from somewhere...
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10621	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:40:00 - [53] - Quote Meee One wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary And a slight speed buff too* It seems like you got this idea from somewhere... That's a no. I have made the suggestion a long time ago. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1063	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:42:00 - [54] - Quote You do know that scouts that run tank trying to compete with assaults, get eaten alive in EWAR right? You don't want to give assaults more HP, and you sure as hell don't want to give them better regen. Especially, not on the grounds of "because they are front line". Because that would totally throw off their balance against heavies, and it won't solve the problem. Assaults need an equip bonus/discount to damage mods. Just as scouts have it for cloak fields. Don't penalize Assaults for stacking up offensively (and perhaps give them 1% extra output from a damage mod), because that's what they are meant to do. The problem people are having is that they can't put down these tank scouts efficiently. Therefore buff the Assault's ability to do damage, via damage mod bonuses, and help them put down the little Scouts when the little fkers try to step to them. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 254	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:06:00 - [55] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it IMO while this is really the only requirement I have when dating, it is far from what I need when I'm playing Dust.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1413	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:09:00 - [56] - Quote The problem isn't base hp. The problem is scouts stacking plates so well. Their go-to armor should be ferroscale/reactive. Double the movement penalty for scouts stacking plates. Scouts are now at a disadvantage if they do so, losing what makes them so good, their speed. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2062	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:03:00 - [57] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Bethhy wrote: Assaults naturally have a damage bonus.. Indirectly but everyone has a DPS bonus in which they can put down more then a scout easier.. They also get an extra slot and more HP. The problem is they can't use that extra HP and slot because their fitting demands are so harsh. The Bonuses for fitting their specific weapons where supposed to help with this... But as everyone said to CCP before 1.8 Implementation...it wasn't enough as the suits where already fitting challenged to start with. Assault suits are fine except they need alot more Base PG and CPU starting right from the Basic -> ADV -> Proto levels. The damage bonuses are not enough. Fact: The Amarr Assault has the highest CPU/PG among the assaults, clocking in at about scout levels, and it has THE best Assault bonus out of the four. They can fit almost everything (if not everything) proto. Why are they so rare then? (Outside of militia scrubs) Why are SCR's in general rare? It's not a gun everyone picks up and get's along with.. Let alone basis their entire suit/skill choice around. This was always going to be the problem with suits that where so specialized in weapon choice and performance. Kalante runs the Gal assault.. And you wouldn't call that suit weak. From fitting calculators the Amarr suit has PG issues. but it's the only suit I don't play or have an alt specialized into... So you may be 100% spot on. The thing with the argument with DUST and how generalized mercenaries have setup their toons is exactly this; Generalized. You try and make a fitting that can perform in nearly every situation and give you a chance at victory. It's nearly impossible to fit that on these suits without saying screw the bonuses. They are completely locked down for diversity in their suit. One trick ponies with no clear purpose on the battlefield..unlike heavies. But you take any of the races Scout vs the same race Assault suit in a Thunderdome Duel, and almost everytime the assault should win.. Caldari Assault vs Scout.. Gallente, Amarr and Minmatar... Every single Assault can take their own racial scout in a 1vs1. So if survivability isn't a huge deal... and damage isn't a huge deal. what is the problem with the suit class?


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