DUST Search - The HP difference between assaults and scouts need to increase

Killer's Coys wrote:

Schecter 666 wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

It's really that simple.
The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130.

So what do scouts get for that HP?:

Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily

Superior Regeneration

A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing

An Extra equipment

Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range)

Smaller hitbox

Faster hacking speed

More stamina and faster stamina regeneration

More CPU/PG

What do Assaults get that scouts don't?:

An extra slot

....
That's about it

What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor.
That's just... hilarious.

So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have?

I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels:
Gallente: 160/265
Amarr: 130/325
Caldari: 265/160
Minmatar: 200/165

Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate.

Tweak if necessary

you seriously want to add 200hp to my amarr assault suit just so I can run around with 800hp of armour on an adv level suit so you can complain about that?

ok then.

We must not have more passive HP, (We = assault)
We must have more regen (armor or shield (each race)), more stamina, more stamina regen, + 1 module on each suit, better race assault bonus (for caldari and gallente; the Amarr's and the Minmatar's are good). More DPS. That's all.

More HP isn't a solution, we could NOT be better than scout if we get more HP... They will stay speeder, with more regen........and the cloack....

We need something that make our a UNIQUE role !

I think the idea to get 1% (a level) damage on EACH light/sidearm weapon (for each race) could be good for assault. That's my opinion.

What's your's ?

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Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10523	Posted - 2014.06.29 13:45:00 - [1] - Quote It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1580	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:28:00 - [2] - Quote I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10527	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:41:00 - [3] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other. I am warry of giving assaults another equipment slot. Scouts are already in dangerous territorty of replacing logistics. It's already happening. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1581	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:47:00 - [4] - Quote fair enough, was just an optional idea that I was throwing out there for discussion. Maybe it could be balanced out, and maybe it would encroach on logi territory too much, just thought I would add it. Definitely need to have more hp/regen, any other ideas for improving upon the assault suits versatility? Or do you feel its already pretty versatile?
pa ck G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 31	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:49:00 - [5] - Quote CCP read this Cat is right Lone Wolf -Assault CK.0
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10534	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:49:00 - [6] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: fair enough, was just an optional idea that I was throwing out there for discussion. Maybe it could be balanced out, and maybe it would encroach on logi territory too much, just thought I would add it. Definitely need to have more hp/regen, any other ideas for improving upon the assault suits versatility? Or do you feel its already pretty versatile? Well, good weapon bonuses would help a lot. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 353	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:52:00 - [7] - Quote I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Izlare Lenix BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 751	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:52:00 - [8] - Quote Assaults should also get a damage bonus, maybe 1% per level, so at proto it's half the bonus of a commando. This would give it something scouts can't do better without stepping on commandos toes. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10537	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:00:00 - [9] - Quote Cyzad4 wrote: I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. I've been running assaults since my first match in DUST, so no difference there. If you look at the advantages scouts have, can you seriously say what you just said with a straight face? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 353	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:12:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cyzad4 wrote: I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. I've been running assaults since my first match in DUST, so no difference there. If you look at the advantages scouts have, can you seriously say what you just said with a straight face? :-l <-- yep could just be I'm used to perpetually running borked suits tho lol and maybe using the terms "good place" rather loosely, perhaps "slightly less **** place" would've been more appropriate. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10537	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:16:00 - [11] - Quote Cyzad4 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cyzad4 wrote: I've been running assaults since... well forever and personally I would say a slight buff to CPU/PG, regen and maybe a slightly increased ammo capacity and they would be in a good place. I've been running assaults since my first match in DUST, so no difference there. If you look at the advantages scouts have, can you seriously say what you just said with a straight face? :-l <-- yep could just be I'm used to perpetually running borked suits tho lol and maybe using the terms "good place" rather loosely, perhaps "slightly less **** place" would've been more appropriate. heh Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2648	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:21:00 - [12] - Quote I was thinking a ROF or DMG bonus. Or both. But I don't mean like OP percentages. Just enough to make an assault have a role. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3357	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:35:00 - [13] - Quote Oh Great Overlord King of the Space Cats.... The Amarr Empire demands that after every suggestion thread you make you end it with the following words "Right Meow!" Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 996	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:57:00 - [14] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other. I could agree to more HP but high regen makes more sense on a scout because of the lone wolf thing...what assaults should get is some sort of offensive bonus like higher RoF or a second LW Slot (like its suposeto be in Legion) or a second grenade slot... And of course PG/CPU need to be in line with the other suits. BTW the speed difference is not very big compared to HP advantage between scout and Assaults...
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10542	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:00:00 - [15] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I'd like that. The two points that should make an assault stand out from a scout is their regen and hp. more health/regen fits in with the assault role nicely, they can hit a position well and keep the momentum of the assault. Maybe another equipment slot to also emphasize versatility but keep the pg/cpu similar, buff it a little so they can actually put something there but not so much that they start encroaching on logistics territory. Good tank, good weapons, decent equipment, good mobility and excellent regen. scouts get the advantage of speed and ewar and shouldn't be so close to the assault suit and its roles. Instead they should supplement each other. I could agree to more HP but high regen makes more sense on a scout because of the lone wolf thing...what assaults should get is some sort of offensive bonus like higher RoF or a second LW Slot (like its suposeto be in Legion) or a second grenade slot... And of course PG/CPU need to be in line with the other suits. BTW the speed difference is not very big compared to HP advantage between scout and Assaults... Speed isn't the only thing scouts have over assaults. Anyway, it makes PERFECT sense to give assaults high regen. They're the first responders, the unit that creates the frontlines, pushes them and destroys them. You can't have that unit sitting for 2 minutes waiting to get back to full health, if the enemy is attacking somewhere, and they're wounded, they either have to waste time to find a logi or sit it out until they can respond. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 752	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:08:00 - [16] - Quote yes this is how scouts were balanced a long time ago. scouts used to have the ewar advantage but when they were seen they were paper thin and lost in a head up gun fight. i run caldari assault and when i fight a caldari scout head up he should not have the same HP and be faster then my assault you can't have both. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2649	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:09:00 - [17] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: yes this is how scouts were balanced a long time ago. scouts used to have the ewar advantage but when they were seen they were paper thin and lost in a head up gun fight. i run caldari assault and when i fight a caldari scout head up he should not have the same HP and be faster then my assault you can't have both. Also 2 equipment. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 3435	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:09:00 - [18] - Quote I have been saying this for so long. A Simple ehp buff to assaults could really help the suit. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
VikingCheech iBUN Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:41:00 - [19] - Quote +1 i agree with cat merc there shouldent be scouts running around with 600+ armour decent reps and everything else thats good about them ninja killing most people they come across. Makes me so angry when they kill me :p
Hobo on Fire Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 292	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:46:00 - [20] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: I could agree to more HP but high regen makes more sense on a scout because of the lone wolf thing...what assaults should get is some sort of offensive bonus like higher RoF or a second LW Slot (like its suposeto be in Legion) or a second grenade slot... And of course PG/CPU need to be in line with the other suits. BTW the speed difference is not very big compared to HP advantage between scout and Assaults... Just because your suit is designed for "lone wolf" use doesn't mean it should be superior to other suits. That's exactly the reason so many assault players run as scouts nowadays... they take the better lone wolf suit and use it as part of a team. Scouts are about speed and stealth, not survivablity. If they get hurt, they have advantages to disengage and find a place to heal up. Assaults are frontline troops though, they have to stand and fight in situations where a scout can slip away. They [i]should[/] be tougher to kill in a stand up fight. I think assaults should all get both an offensive and defensive racial bonus, in addition to the class bonus for light weapons. Lets give each assault a bonus for that races defensive modules: Caldari get an HP buff for shield extenders (like they used to) Gallente get a Regen Rate for Armor Reppers Amarr get an HP buff for Armor Plates Minmatar get a bonus for Shield Rechargers/Regulators Ideally, I'd like to see changes to some of the Assault weapon bonuses too; The Amarr bonus I actually like, and I see legit value for the Minmatar magazine capacity bonus. I'm less sure about the Gallente hip fire dispersion, and the reload bonus for Caldari assaults is just plain dumb since the rapid reload skills already exist.

Schecter 666 Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:47:00 - [21] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary you seriously want to add 200hp to my amarr assault suit just so I can run around with 800hp of armour on an adv level suit so you can complain about that? ok then.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 32	Posted - 2014.06.29 18:22:00 - [22] - Quote Schecter 666 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary you seriously want to add 200hp to my amarr assault suit just so I can run around with 800hp of armour on an adv level suit so you can complain about that? ok then. We must not have more passive HP, (We = assault) We must have more regen (armor or shield (each race)), more stamina, more stamina regen, + 1 module on each suit, better race assault bonus (for caldari and gallente; the Amarr's and the Minmatar's are good). More DPS. That's all. More HP isn't a solution, we could NOT be better than scout if we get more HP... They will stay speeder, with more regen........and the cloack.... We need something that make our a UNIQUE role ! I think the idea to get 1% (a level) damage on EACH light/sidearm weapon (for each race) could be good for assault. That's my opinion. What's your's ?
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10558	Posted - 2014.06.29 19:18:00 - [23] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Schecter 666 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's really that simple. The HP difference between the gk0 scout and assault is 130. So what do scouts get for that HP?: Complete EWAR superiority = Harder to detect and can see people through walls more easily Superior Regeneration A lot faster speed = Faster reaction to evolving threats and better strafing An Extra equipment Easy access to the cloak, increasing their stealth factor that much more and allowing for the first mover advantage, as well as dictation of fights. (Choosing when to fight and from what range) Smaller hitbox Faster hacking speed More stamina and faster stamina regeneration More CPU/PG What do Assaults get that scouts don't?: An extra slot .... That's about it What's funny is that assaults are much more limited in CPU/PG, so fully fitted scouts can often get as much HP as fully fitted assaults from just this factor. That's just... hilarious. So now, tell me, honestly, do 130HP and an extra slot sound fair for losing all of the bonuses scouts have? I recommend pushing Assault HP between Commando and Scout levels: Gallente: 160/265 Amarr: 130/325 Caldari: 265/160 Minmatar: 200/165 Maybe bring Logistics up to current assault levels to compensate. Tweak if necessary you seriously want to add 200hp to my amarr assault suit just so I can run around with 800hp of armour on an adv level suit so you can complain about that? ok then. We must not have more passive HP, (We = assault) We must have more regen (armor or shield (each race)), more stamina, more stamina regen, + 1 module on each suit, better race assault bonus (for caldari and gallente; the Amarr's and the Minmatar's are good). More DPS. That's all. More HP isn't a solution, we could NOT be better than scout if we get more HP... They will stay speeder, with more regen........and the cloack.... We need something that make our a UNIQUE role ! I think the idea to get 1% (a level) damage on EACH light/sidearm weapon (for each race) could be good for assault. That's my opinion. What's your's ? If a scout can get the same HP as an Assault, Assaults will remain ****. It's really that simple. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
I-Shayz-I I----------I 3828	Posted - 2014.06.29 20:48:00 - [24] - Quote It's really just the fact that scouts can tank so much HP. I mean why should a caldari scout be able to have 400+ shields? And don't get me started with "400 shield is not even that much"... A scout's HP is supposed to be in their stealth and strafing abilities. It's like giving a heavy the same movement speed and hitbox as an assault and calling it balanced -_- 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
The Eristic Dust 90210 496	Posted - 2014.06.29 21:15:00 - [25] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: It's really just the fact that scouts can tank so much HP. I mean why should a caldari scout be able to have 400+ shields? And don't get me started with "400 shield is not even that much"... A scout's HP is supposed to be in their stealth and strafing abilities. It's like giving a heavy the same movement speed and hitbox as an assault and calling it balanced -_- I agree. I'd rather see something like 3x movement penalty for non-ferro/reactive plates (or factor it in as a stacking penalty, so you could use one normal plate with regular penalty, but get hit harder and harder for each additional plate, so much so that you'd be significantly slower than an assault) and an increase in scan profile (or maybe increased resource cost? Significantly reduced recharge rate?) per stacked extender on light frames. Could also penalize based on tier, so basic extenders/plates penalize less than complex when stacked. It just plain makes sense that light frames should be less able to comfortably fit modules that represent such MASSIVE gains relative to their base HP. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Atiim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 10012	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:51:00 - [26] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Assaults should also get a damage bonus, maybe 1% per level, so at proto it's half the bonus of a commando. This would give it something scouts can't do better without stepping on commandos toes. Then you'd make the Assault suit a worse version of the Commando. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 99	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:54:00 - [27] - Quote one of the best ideas i've seen was increasing HP for assault suits the entire four races could use an additional slot or two as well.
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1678	Posted - 2014.06.30 04:13:00 - [28] - Quote Ty for bring this subject up. I also have a post going. I am glad to see others trying to bring this problem to light. Keep up the good fight. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
Izlare Lenix BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 753	Posted - 2014.07.01 06:00:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: Assaults should also get a damage bonus, maybe 1% per level, so at proto it's half the bonus of a commando. This would give it something scouts can't do better without stepping on commandos toes. Then you'd make the Assault suit a worse version of the Commando. This damage bonus would be in addition to an hp buff of some kind. With slightly more hp, and a built in complex damage mod, I would pick assault over commando any day. Commandos are too chunky and too slow. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 333	Posted - 2014.07.01 06:10:00 - [30] - Quote Yep my scout Ak.0 can get 804 armor O.O I don't even know if the assault can get that much..... Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"



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