DUST Search - Installation EHP Buff

Jerricho Lionheart wrote:

Hello there, while I may have no credibility as a game designer or expert player*, I was thinking of an interesting change to the battlefield that would make the game more intense and dynamic without the need to change much.

Seeing that there is NEVER going to be deploy-able installations, that a dramatic buff to the hit points of weapon installations would make a lot of sense. Right now, the only thing they are good for are Pilots and AVers to farm early warpoints at the beginning of a battle. They make seemingly no difference in battle and aren't really a threat to anybody with mild common sense. But, if they were buffed to a reasonable level (I'd say to about the EHP of supply depot) that people would take them far more seriously.

Imagine if pilots had to start strategically maneuvering around not only other tanks and forge gunners, but also powerful installations. Their teammates would now need to start carefully infiltrating the area and hack the installation for their team pilots to safely access the region. This would give scouts more EWAR focused missions to have (minmatar), add additional ways to setup fortified strongholds, and give some of the newer players and those without proper AV an actual chance to stand toe to toe with skilled pilots.

I haven't spent extensive time as pilot, so if any of you think this would be unreasonable, please speak up. Some of the current installation placements may make this idea problematic but I think so much could be added to the current meta with this change, and in a positive way. Thanks for your time and I'd like to know what you all have to say on the matter.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jerricho Lionheart Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.06.28 10:42:00 - [1] - Quote Hello there, while I may have no credibility as a game designer or expert player*, I was thinking of an interesting change to the battlefield that would make the game more intense and dynamic without the need to change much. Seeing that there is NEVER going to be deploy-able installations, that a dramatic buff to the hit points of weapon installations would make a lot of sense. Right now, the only thing they are good for are Pilots and AVers to farm early warpoints at the beginning of a battle. They make seemingly no difference in battle and aren't really a threat to anybody with mild common sense. But, if they were buffed to a reasonable level (I'd say to about the EHP of supply depot) that people would take them far more seriously. Imagine if pilots had to start strategically maneuvering around not only other tanks and forge gunners, but also powerful installations. Their teammates would now need to start carefully infiltrating the area and hack the installation for their team pilots to safely access the region. This would give scouts more EWAR focused missions to have (minmatar), add additional ways to setup fortified strongholds, and give some of the newer players and those without proper AV an actual chance to stand toe to toe with skilled pilots. I haven't spent extensive time as pilot, so if any of you think this would be unreasonable, please speak up. Some of the current installation placements may make this idea problematic but I think so much could be added to the current meta with this change, and in a positive way. Thanks for your time and I'd like to know what you all have to say on the matter.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3279	Posted - 2014.06.28 10:50:00 - [2] - Quote I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE A.P.E.X BRUTE FORCE 80	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:02:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. we think the same Waiting The Sagaris From Ages. CCP: SoonTM
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 884	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:10:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. wait wait wait wait hold up. It takes me four shots :( Dust/Eve transfers
The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels 50	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:10:00 - [5] - Quote planetary defence systems, Millions of isks worth of ships in space yet theres nothing quite like a face to face
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2819	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:11:00 - [6] - Quote Wow.. this is an idea I actually like. I hate to admit it, but I'm one of those players who destroys installations early on for WP. They're free points, but they could be much more. Buff their HP and position them in more strategic places on the map. There are too many installations that seem to function as nothing more than decoration.
SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE A.P.E.X BRUTE FORCE 80	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:11:00 - [7] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. wait wait wait wait hold up. It takes me four shots :( no man why you run with railgun? you better choose XT-201 DAT TURRET Waiting The Sagaris From Ages. CCP: SoonTM
Justice Prevails 270	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:13:00 - [8] - Quote Turrets514. =ƒÿâ Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2819	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:14:00 - [9] - Quote Justice Prevails wrote: Turrets514. =ƒÿâ I'm cool with that!
The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels 50	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:20:00 - [10] - Quote Im talking structures with built in defence systems that are shielded heavily so you need to hack the defence mainframe to allow armour elements to be able to come in range, Millions of isks worth of ships in space yet theres nothing quite like a face to face

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 885	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:25:00 - [11] - Quote SCATTORSHOT RINNEGATE wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: It takes me four shots :( no man why you run with railgun? you better choose XT-201 DAT TURRET I only have 150k SP in tanks noh8m8 Dust/Eve transfers
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 315	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:27:00 - [12] - Quote Jerricho Lionheart wrote: Hello there, while I may have no credibility as a game designer or expert player*, I was thinking of an interesting change to the battlefield that would make the game more intense and dynamic without the need to change much. Seeing that there is NEVER going to be deploy-able installations, that a dramatic buff to the hit points of weapon installations would make a lot of sense. Right now, the only thing they are good for are Pilots and AVers to farm early warpoints at the beginning of a battle. They make seemingly no difference in battle and aren't really a threat to anybody with mild common sense. But, if they were buffed to a reasonable level (I'd say to about the EHP of supply depot) that people would take them far more seriously. Imagine if pilots had to start strategically maneuvering around not only other tanks and forge gunners, but also powerful installations. Their teammates would now need to start carefully infiltrating the area and hack the installation for their team pilots to safely access the region. This would give scouts more EWAR focused missions to have (minmatar), add additional ways to setup fortified strongholds, and give some of the newer players and those without proper AV an actual chance to stand toe to toe with skilled pilots. I haven't spent extensive time as pilot, so if any of you think this would be unreasonable, please speak up. Some of the current installation placements may make this idea problematic but I think so much could be added to the current meta with this change, and in a positive way. Thanks for your time and I'd like to know what you all have to say on the matter. Problem of installations always consist in how quickly they can switch side and became extremely dangerous. Yes, they are dangerous that's why everyone is destroying them at the beginning of match. It has nothing to do with they EHP, they are silent-killers - if you will let blueberry to hack them, he will not defend them from enemy hack, when they are red and you retreat next to them with 25-35%HP left you are dead.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 541	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:33:00 - [13] - Quote As an ADS pilot I would like to see something like this. My only concern is the redline turrets: quite often I/others in profession are driven to do runs into the redline to kill people on missile turrets (spamming the air with infinite range) or railguns nestled just far enough inside to be a major nuisance. I'm all for turret relevance, but I just need to point Rattati at the redline, because it can be an issue.
The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels 50	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:37:00 - [14] - Quote Extend the redline for air units, Millions of isks worth of ships in space yet theres nothing quite like a face to face
Jerricho Lionheart Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:41:00 - [15] - Quote The Lion ElJonson wrote: Im talking structures with built in defence systems that are shielded heavily so you need to hack the defence mainframe to allow armour elements to be able to come in range, Well seeing as those aren't in the game already, I don't see something like that being added in the forseeable future, not a bad Idea however. I couldn't say how much work it would take to adjust the the installation's HP, but those values seem to be adjusted pretty often so I thought it would be within reason. I think before changing the positioning of the installations would come into effect, just seeing how this change would affect every battle in their current placement would be quite a thing to see. Kallas Hallytyr wrote: As an ADS pilot I would like to see something like this. My only concern is the redline turrets: quite often I/others in profession are driven to do runs into the redline to kill people on missile turrets (spamming the air with infinite range) or railguns nestled just far enough inside to be a major nuisance. I'm all for turret relevance, but I just need to point Rattati at the redline, because it can be an issue. Good point, actually. If this is the case I would say that some redline non-blaster turret may need to be nixed, or changed to blasters (to help with redline stomping). Once again, more a problem with the redline than the actually tools used.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3285	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:43:00 - [16] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: As an ADS pilot I would like to see something like this. My only concern is the redline turrets: quite often I/others in profession are driven to do runs into the redline to kill people on missile turrets (spamming the air with infinite range) or railguns nestled just far enough inside to be a major nuisance. I'm all for turret relevance, but I just need to point Rattati at the redline, because it can be an issue. Don't think turrets have infinite range, will double check and make sure the turrets aren't over powered as a result. I also see a second benefit of strong redline turrets, to make escaping a vehicle spawn camp at the redline. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels 50	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:48:00 - [17] - Quote Would be good if you needed an EMP orbital to strip installation shielding, bring more need for EvE pilots Millions of isks worth of ships in space yet theres nothing quite like a face to face
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2366	Posted - 2014.06.28 11:53:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Don't think turrets have infinite range, will double check and make sure the turrets aren't over powered as a result. I also see a second benefit of strong redline turrets, to make escaping a vehicle spawn camp at the redline. Missilistic turrets have infinite range. PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1166	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:00:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. Turrets being something you actually want to fight over due to their tactical value is a good thing. Basically - Don't give them too much buffer but enough that when a tank / swarmer / forger starts shooting at them they can fight back decently. Tanks and DS should have to be wary of turrets and not treat them like a WP snack. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 542	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:02:00 - [20] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Don't think turrets have infinite range, will double check and make sure the turrets aren't over powered as a result. I also see a second benefit of strong redline turrets, to make escaping a vehicle spawn camp at the redline. Missilistic turrets have infinite range. Oga's right. It might not technically be infinite range, but for all intents and purposes it is - that is, it will hit you across the map. This is only a concern for dropship pilots (of any stripe) but it is a concern. since the impact effect is potentially enough to knock you into stuff/tip you too far so you crash, etc. I've said it in other threads, the redline doesn't do it's dyty: while you're looking at this thread, what is involved in moving the redline? Would it be a client side update? Or would it be possible in a hotfix? I ask, because I have some ideas on how to make the redline perform its intended task, which it isn't right now on quite a few maps.

Justice Prevails 270	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:02:00 - [21] - Quote I would think infantry would stay with installations more if they had better positioning. Sometimes, you have to hack them because no one on your team has called in vehicles yet. Can't destroy them, because my swarms won't lock on a yellow installation. Also,either buff the turning speed or protect the operator's back and guys will stick with them more. Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 298	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:03:00 - [22] - Quote What about a EHP buff along with the removal of auto-targeting AI? Not sure if it is a good idea or not, but it would reduce the hack and run mentality, and perhaps get more people spending points in turret operations?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1202	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:04:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. I think 99% of the playerbase feels the same way. I would suggest something though - could we give Infantry AV a small bonus towards damage to the installations (this is assuming you do buff the hitpoints) as it would give dedicated AVers a new role on the battlefield as well if they are not able to send in someone sneaky. Investigate 9/11
Jerricho Lionheart Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:10:00 - [24] - Quote @Justice Prevails and Regis Blackbird Maybe it's just my personal experience but most of the problems I have with using a turret is... well... them not being there in the first place. Usually my team or the other has feasted on them before I even get a chance to hack them. Not only that, but when I do get the control of one, more often than not, if it's a tank, they'll blow me away regardless, even if I got the first 2 or 3 shots. A lot of these may be too many buffs at once. Keep it one step at a time and such.
Grimmiers 602	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:20:00 - [25] - Quote They should've have modules so more players won't be afraid to use them. I wonder if ccp could even fit modules onto them for us. A hardener and a scanner would go a long way.
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 324	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:38:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. like you dint nerf tanks enough.....do you even play the game or do u stare at charts all day? & justice for all
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 542	Posted - 2014.06.28 12:48:00 - [27] - Quote Shadow of War88 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. like you dint nerf tanks enough.....do you even play the game or do u stare at charts all day? You leave Rattati alone! He's done more for the health of DUST in the past two months than any Dev before him ever achieved. He's brought transparency to the process, which means if you want to get involved...it's only you stopping you.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 1015	Posted - 2014.06.28 13:24:00 - [28] - Quote This is a very good idea. It might even make some sense to adjust their positions in some cases because some of them are in frankly useless positions. A possible bump to the damage the turrets might be a good idea but too many things should not be changed at once. Full disclosure: I snipe as you all know but I do carry proto swarms and I use them to farm points and kill/damage vehicles. I consider the swarmer to be a vehicle sniper, so I'm still considering myself a pure sniper. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 1016	Posted - 2014.06.28 13:31:00 - [29] - Quote The Lion ElJonson wrote: Extend the redline for air units, This idea has merit and might significantly reduce the complaints about the redline (especially in relation to us snipers). Anyone who jumps out of a dropship would immediately start his redline clock once he hits the ground. This would effectively double their redline time. I'm not sure how much the redline should be extended for dropships and I'm not sure if the redline timer should be reduced for them as compensation for the increased range. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 316	Posted - 2014.06.28 13:45:00 - [30] - Quote People, you are all crazy. Instead of focusing on reducing lag you want to waste CCP employees time on minor changes.



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