|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
541
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 11:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
As an ADS pilot I would like to see something like this. My only concern is the redline turrets: quite often I/others in profession are driven to do runs into the redline to kill people on missile turrets (spamming the air with infinite range) or railguns nestled just far enough inside to be a major nuisance.
I'm all for turret relevance, but I just need to point Rattati at the redline, because it can be an issue. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
542
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 12:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Don't think turrets have infinite range, will double check and make sure the turrets aren't over powered as a result.
I also see a second benefit of strong redline turrets, to make escaping a vehicle spawn camp at the redline.
Missilistic turrets have infinite range.
Oga's right. It might not technically be infinite range, but for all intents and purposes it is - that is, it will hit you across the map. This is only a concern for dropship pilots (of any stripe) but it is a concern. since the impact effect is potentially enough to knock you into stuff/tip you too far so you crash, etc.
I've said it in other threads, the redline doesn't do it's dyty: while you're looking at this thread, what is involved in moving the redline? Would it be a client side update? Or would it be possible in a hotfix? I ask, because I have some ideas on how to make the redline perform its intended task, which it isn't right now on quite a few maps. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
542
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 12:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shadow of War88 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I have thought the same, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts. Would make tanks less "run around and two-shot all the installations first" and actually have to worry a little about them. like you dint nerf tanks enough.....do you even play the game or do u stare at charts all day?
You leave Rattati alone! He's done more for the health of DUST in the past two months than any Dev before him ever achieved. He's brought transparency to the process, which means if you want to get involved...it's only you stopping you. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
546
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 15:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Good because ADS is intolerable on the battleifeld. Once you hit an incubus with one shot, they activate the afterburner and is out of there with their double or triple armor reppers. Same could be said about pythons. Swarms can't touch..neither can tank rails since the distance nerf. All ADS pilots do is go high and drop behind the tank....and if they have a gunner, good luck.
Aside from the fact that ADSs are far from untouchable anymore, could you stick to the point at hand: we're talking about Turret Installations.
The only reason I brought up ADSs earlier is because of redline Missile Turrets having infinite range. Dropships are concerned about Turrets at the moment, just like HAVs, but only slightly. A buff to the toughness of Installations would serve to make them harder to destroy (obviously) but that would have the knock on effect of making their presence felt a ot more by those vehicle pilots.
(And as far as ADSs go, you can quite comfortably kill them now. Easy? No. Impossible? Far from it. If a pilot is afterburning away immediately after a single AV hit, they are going to be contributing very little to the outcome of the match. All ADS pilots from 1.6 knows this, though it's not nearly as bad as then.) |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
546
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 15:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:1. Installations should receive a significant buff in ehp, but not in the order of magnitude of a supply depot or CRU. Right now I wouldn't mind if the ehp of installations was doubled. 2. If you want to see people try to repair installations while they are under attack, consider granting them passive resists to all relevant damage types. This way a Logi with a rep-tool has a better chance of standing up to the DPS of a railgun turret. Just make sure an installation doesn't turn invulnerable when maintained by a single player. Fyi: The highest repair rate on an installation achievable is 151 hp/s (core focused rep tool repairs 121 hp/s on installations, +25% Minmatar Logi bonus). A single IAFG sits at ~450 dps including reloads (1500 hp * 4 / (3*4s*0.75 + 4s) ) 3. In a dream world I think installations should respawn a while after they have been destroyed. Just to keep installations as a factor during the whole match. 4. Finally, please make sure that WP for neutral turrets is removed. It's overdue.
1) Agreed, they shouldn't be quite so tough, though I'd say maybe triple would be better: they are immobile installations, which are almost invariably tougher than mobile units. Triple the HP would put them (working from vague memory) at about 4500 Shields/6000 Armour(?)
2) Interesting idea. Definitely agree that they should not simply halt incoming damage, but being able to keep them alive and functioning for that little bit longer would be very good. Teamwork focused around a turret? That's some brand new gameplay right there!
3) Agreed. Though I think it would be best if they all respawned in a wave at set times, rather than individually. My biggest problem with some game modes previously (before 1.8) was that people would be spawning in almost as fast as you were reloading. I wouldn't want to see that happening here: "Yay, we just finished off that second - *ZZZZZSSSSS-boom!* - god damn, another one..."
4) Definitely. Neutral turrets should be worth maybe 25 Hack points. That should be it, no damage or destruction points. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
549
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 15:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:I think you'll find it takes a railgun tank 4 shots to destroy an installation, whereas an installation still deals original "UNNERFED" damage to tanks. If a tank is in a battle, a railgun installation will definitely turn the tide.
The missile installation can successfully deter ADS and hot drop pilots all day. The blaster is a good suppression turret and can annihilate infantry and LAVs as well as dropships in the right hands.
Buffing the HP of installations would result in more people camping in them, even people repping them.
This would make the game slower paced, more frustrating and "campy"
Damage: sure, let's fix that. That's just numbers, hardly something that requires a rewrite of the Internet.
Missiles: Yes, they can deter them, but they still have restricted elevation. The only issue is, as I mentioned earlier, the infinite range. Once that gets dealt with, Missile turrets will be dangerous to the incautious DS pilot, but will be able to be dealt with still.
Blasters: With the dispersion changes, it's primarily AV, which is fine for the most part. It's still dangeorus to infatntry though.
Camping them? They're still vulnerable to Scouts running up and Knifing/Shotgunning them in the back, hacking them and switching its allegiance. On a turret, you're hal blind. If your squad is supporting you, then it's a lot less about the turret and more about OP Teamwork!!
As far as slower paced is concerned, I'm all for it: Dropships gain relevance, by being used to actually transport people, something lacking in our currently small and very fast paxed battles. Tanks have a purposes by distracting and/or destroying installations to push paths for their infantry, then taking on the role of a mobile turret to support them further. In other words, it gives HAVs a purpose, something they are lacking right now. People would need to be more cautious with moving about in the open: this is an FPS trying to relate a high-tech warzone, it should be dangerous out there!
As for frustration: why would a turret be any more frustrating than a fuill proto squad stomping your face in? At least if you grab an installation, you'll be able to hammer THEM!
Really, I don't accept your complaints. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
549
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 15:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:The missile installations are essentially the old large missiles- very long range, but it doesn't really matter because the damage is laughable.
Damage is irrelevant if one missile clips you and you do 472 degree roll into a building.
I'm all for making them as potent as current missile launchers are, just make their range reasonable with it. Hell, if they're intended to be AA, keep the range, but make it a deliberate decision. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
549
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 16:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:One...I wasn't responding to your statement about ADS. Second...I don't think you play the game much if you think you can "quite comfortably" kill a decent ADS pilot.
I have Swarm Launchers up to L3 and am a committed Incubus and Python pilot. From both sides I see AV killing ADS. I have killed ADSs single handedly after the Bravo update, though against a good pilot it is not as simple as, "Lock, Fire, Derp, Fire, Derp, Fire, Reload."
As I mentioned though, an ADS pilot who is 'burning away for half the match because of AV is not going to be contributing a whole lot. Not to mention the AVer is going to be getting war points from the damage they deal.
With regards to the installations, ADSs have to come down fairly low, even with gunners, which means that if more than one turret can see them, there's a strong likelihood of the ADS being hurt severely enough to retreat, and if any AVer is paying attention there is a not insignificant chance of them getting downed.
ADSs are hard to kill if the pilot is aware of their surroundings. AV can kill them, and a little coordination goes a long way to achieving that.
So, do you have anything to say about the installations at all, or are you just here to complain? |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
551
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 20:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:Rynoceros wrote:I've been saying this for a year. (This is the first time I haven't seen Spkr's pitiful attempts at logic included.) With the absolute Range now nerfed on Railgun and Missile Installations, why the hell not?
More drops in OMS (at least 100%). Please.
Installations are 3 shots from my FG and yield 100 WP. A Supply Depot takes my entire ammo cache, yet only yields 50 WP. CRU Destruction should be 100 WP (minimally) because of its high HP and importance on the field.
I think the reason that Supply Depots and CRUs have lower wp rewards is to discourage their destruction... just a thought.
They take so much damn effort to kill that by the time you're done, the game's over! Unless you've got a lot of coordinated AV, then it'll go down about as fast as an arthritic...you know...boules player...
Seriously though, CRUs/Depots are so tough that destroying them is a conscious design now, especially since vehicles need ammo, so Tanks no longer just blow them up out of hand. Though that is yet another reason why I want the redline pushed back: so that burnzone Depots/CRUs become more valuable. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
551
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 20:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:If installations are buffed, they should have to reload like a normal turret, have the same number of shots per mag/clip every reload as a normal turret, and can retain infinite ammo capacity.
Hmm... I wonder if installations could act as ammo caches, but only when the turret type matches the ones in use of the vehicle. This would increase their significance substantially... it would make you think twice before destroying them.
Good point. I think this was raised before 1.7, but nothing ever came of it, because CCP Messia- I mean Rattati hadn't come along. The first part I definitely agree with and I mostly do for the second: but what about Projectie and Laser weapons? There are no Installations that use that damage profile - use the nearest? So Laser at Blaster, Projectile at Rail? |
|
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
551
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 20:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
TIMMY DAVIS wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to players being able to buy installations. This would let CCP make new ones, both bigger and smaller. CRU's are really expensive, Large Blaster installations are expensive, Supply Depots less expensive, etc.
The only issue with the purchasing idea is that it would require client side updates, I believe. If that's the case then it is not likely to happen soon. Rattati has said that client side updates are not off the table, but things that can be patched up and sent out quickly are their priority - hence the simple, mostly number-crunching Hotfixes (even though they have been done well!)
I'd love to see what you suggest getting implemented though. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
560
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 00:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:I agree with this one. Sure the wp are nice but it takes as much as 10 seconds and as little as what 5? to hack these so they can flip flop a LOT and be a real problem for tanks. There really aren't enough players on a map in most cases to have players guarding the turrets so as a part time tanker i normally destroy every turret i see so that it doesn't get flipped and blow up my tank. I would be perfectly happy if they were just pulled off the maps in all honesty. Better though would be if they were in more strategic positions such as clustering the CRU Supply depot and say 2 turrets so there would be a good reason to defend the area.
Good point,. I think a redistribution of turrets would be a good thing. As you say, if they were in more strategically valuable locations, they would be both more easy and more useful to defend. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
565
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 07:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:it takes us 2 cycles of XT-1 turret +10% already to blow one up one more do you want,
You're saying that it takes two clips of proto missiles with 10% damage from ADS to kill a turret right now is the basis for not buffing it? Because that's nonsense. It takes me one clip at only level three ADS. Fix your logic.
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:I propose that we remove option to hack them, and bound them to team that holds null-cannon in they closest proximity - if someone will start the process of hacking null-cannon, defense system of installations is disable temporarily, as soon as hack is finish all installations is switching to defend that n-c. It will annihilate problem of unexpected silent-killers, and at the same point will make job of gunner more safe(because no one will come to hack it).
One more thing, there shouldn't be neutral installation at beginning of match. They should appear after n-c is hacked.
I really like this idea, though what if hacking them didn't turn them, but instead disabled them until an enemy reenabled it by rehacking it/the null cannon changes hands? Reduce the WP gain from the action, but I think indirect options (ie, not just damaging/destruction) should be available. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
566
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 12:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:Damage: Rewrite of the internet? didn't write an essay last time i checked, simply mentioned it.
Yes, I used hyperbole. It is a form of emphasis. My emphasis was to show that it would be a very easy fix. Thus that your concern over the damage differences between vehicle/installations is unnecessary.
manboar thunder fist wrote:Missiles: Often a struggling dropship will shrug off swarms just to be killed by a missile from a turret used by some noob in the redline 500m away. Not pretty when each one costs 500,000 isk. Imagine if the game had inbuilt remotes on your spawn, how would you feel?
You realise I'm also an ADS pilot right? I know just how it feels to lose 500k to a random missile, how irritating it is to have to dart in and out of the redline trying to destroy them without getting tagged/redline timer ******* up.
If you read any of this thread, you should have seen myself and other advocating for reducing the impact/impulse effect of the missiles and reducing the range from infinity. Either and/or both of those would do more than enough for dropships, while the missiles would still be incredibly dangerous to them - as they should be!
manboar thunder fist wrote:Blasters: DO you even play the game?! blasters are still largely effective anti infantry weapons.
Of course, because I vaguely disagree with you I must not play. The large Blaster dispersion changes made its antipersonnel ability less effective: yes, it can still kill all stripes of enemy, which is fine. Are you suggesting that infantry/tanks/lavs/dropships/any or all of the above should for some reason be exempt?
manboar thunder fist wrote:Camping: Shotgunners? Scouts? Last time i checked shotgunners don't tend to run 100m into the redline for a laugh and back out.
Because only redline turrets matter? Sure, the redline missile turrets are annoying because of infinite range, but we're talking about fixing the range right here in this very thread! Rattati has even talked about it!
manboar thunder fist wrote:Slower pace: Dropships used for infantry transport? HOW ABSURD! do you even play in squads? Oh and show us where on your clone the bad proto touched you.
Who doesn't love straw men..? 1) Dropships are rarely used for transportation unless its a well coordinated squad. Maybe some day we could have teams working together, instead of disparate groups. Right now? Unlikely, but let's look to the future. 2) Proto stomping squads have been a blight on DUST for ages. To deny Proto stomping is an issue is absurd. Proto stomping drives away new players. I can take a lot of the proto scrubs out there one on one (a lot really are just bad and rely on their gear, not all) but stuff six running vaguely close together and it's an issue for anyone. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
576
|
Posted - 2014.06.30 13:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:Do we really need free installations that are able to kill 500,000 dropships and 350000 tanks with ease? Already a tank or dropship on low hp can be killed by any turret. Have you ever hovered a dropship where it can be shot by a blaster turret? It melts
Good god man!? A medium aerial vehicle melts when a large blaster shoots at a non/slow moving target?! That's it, DUST is broken, I'm going home and taking my football with me! [/sarcasm]
Installations should be just as dangerous as vehicles, otherwise what's the point?! If you are dumb enough to hover in front of a turret, inside it's effective elevation you damn well get hurt for being a moron!
manboar thunder fist wrote:Since these installations are free they should serve as they do...
I see now. You want free war points.Duly noted.
manboar thunder fist wrote:Turrets not doomsday devices
ERM, they have standard level weapons (currently not updated) and you think that's a doomsday weapon?! Seriously?
manboar thunder fist wrote:I can already climb into a turret and easily kill tanks and people alike. All the turrets hve their roles and are in a good place
Really? Because I, like quite a lot of others it seems, are of the impression that non-redline Missile turrets are absolute garbage because they die so damn fast. It's not like any of us are also vehicle pilots like you, or that any of us want a challenge rather than free, easy pickings
Seriously, a lot of your noise is stemming from your brain dead refusal to accept that people are trying to make them relevant, not overpowered. Buffing EHP is one of the simplest methods to make them dangerous! Because then they don't simply disappear in 5 seconds before they cannot least scratch the offender. There's other suggestions in this thread, like fixing their damage/range profiles so they are in line with the current vehicle weapons and to modify where they are positioned on the battlefield.
I suggest you try rereading the thread and actually turning your brain on instead of spouting ridiculous reactionary nonsense. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
578
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 00:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think this needs more Rattati love
Bump... |
|
|
|