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Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 1005	Posted - 2014.06.14 15:58:00 - [1] - Quote At least where a gunnlogi is concerned, a forge gun and a swarmer SHRED an unhardened gunnlogi. Mind you both were at proto level, but still, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for those AVers that complain of unkillable tanks. AV played me, lured me in and eventually cut off my escape and surrounded me with their power. It was quite impressive. AV really shined last night. While I may have only lost but a few tanks to AV, they proved that they are not nearly as underpowered as they claim to be where a gunnlogi is concerned. Hardeners, of course, makes a huge difference against swarms. Though when you throw a forge gunner into the mix, you WILL have to limit your engagements severely, even with the hardeners. GG those AVers that actually try, and use tactics to overcome tankers on the field. It's amazing what you can do when you focus fire and coordinate. And it doesn't take half a team of AVers to do it! Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Yeeeuuuupppp 334	Posted - 2014.06.14 16:29:00 - [2] - Quote Lai dai packed av nades + wiyrokromi swarms + nanohives makes my triple rep maddy cry. Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Feel the wrath of my troll
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1803	Posted - 2014.06.14 16:41:00 - [3] - Quote Yes, because you totally can't just fit a teleportation- i mean NoS, and edcape instantly? Because it now requires 3-4 people to killyou reasonably? How about because (not you) some tankers drive a Sica with a blaster, and yet my Wyrrkomis on a Minmatar Commando can't kill them? How about an Incubus? Those things take 43% dmg from myswarms, and Ratatti doesn't find it unfair that pythons are 3 shotted, while an incubus needs 3 proto avers to even break reps. Caldari vehicles are underpowered. Die in a maddy that isn't a CreodronBreach and then tell us how not UP AV is. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2533	Posted - 2014.06.14 16:46:00 - [4] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Yes, because you totally can't just fit a teleportation- i mean NoS, and edcape instantly? Because it now requires 3-4 people to killyou reasonably? How about because (not you) some tankers drive a Sica with a blaster, and yet my Wyrrkomis on a Minmatar Commando can't kill them? How about an Incubus? Those things take 43% dmg from myswarms, and Ratatti doesn't find it unfair that pythons are 3 shotted, while an incubus needs 3 proto avers to even break reps. Caldari vehicles are underpowered. Die in a maddy that isn't a CreodronBreach and then tell us how not UP AV is. A decent rail can 2 shot any maddy. Their vehicles may be underpowered but their weaponry sure as hell arn't. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9440	Posted - 2014.06.14 16:52:00 - [5] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: A decent rail can 2 shot any maddy. Their vehicles may be underpowered but their weaponry sure as hell arn't. And my AV Commando dies easily to an HMG. Not really sure how that's relevant to the discussion. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2533	Posted - 2014.06.14 16:55:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: A decent rail can 2 shot any maddy. Their vehicles may be underpowered but their weaponry sure as hell arn't. And my AV Commando dies easily to an HMG. Not really sure how that's relevant to the discussion. Armor tanks are meant to suppress infantry therefor they are better at tanking av, shield tanks are dusts "tank destroyers" therefor they can't tank av. Blasters are meant for armor tanks not shields for that very reason same with the railgun it's meant for shield tanks not armor. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9441	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:11:00 - [7] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: At least where a gunnlogi is concerned, a forge gun and a swarmer SHRED an unhardened gunnlogi. Mind you both were at proto level, but still, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for those AVers that complain of unkillable tanks. AV played me, lured me in and eventually cut off my escape and surrounded me with their power. It was quite impressive. AV really shined last night. While I may have only lost but a few tanks to AV, they proved that they are not nearly as underpowered as they claim to be where a Gunnlogi is concerned. Hardeners, of course, makes a huge difference against swarms. Though when you throw a forge gunner into the mix, you WILL have to limit your engagements severely, even with the hardeners. GG those AVers that actually try, and use tactics to overcome tankers on the field. It's amazing what you can do when you focus fire and coordinate. And it doesn't take half a team of AVers to do it! Hmm... Quote: At least where a [Matari Logistics] is concerned. A [Heavy Machine Gun] and a [Shotgun] would SHRED an untanked [Matari Logistics]. Mind you the [Heavy Machine Guns and Shotguns] were both at proto level, but still, I had a hard time feeling sympathy for any of those [Light or Heavy Frame] users that complain of overpowered [Slayer Logis]. [Heavy Machine Guns and Shotguns] played me, lured me in and eventually cut off my escape and surrounded me with their power. It was quite impressive. [Heavy & Light Frames[ really shined last night. While I may have only lost a few [Dropsuits] to [Heavy & Light Frames], they proved that they are not nearly as underpowered as they claim to be where a [Matari Logistics] is concerned. [Damage Modifiers], of course, make a huge difference against [Light & Heavy Frame] users. Though when you throw an [HMG] into the mix, you WILL have to limit your engagements severely, even with the hardeners. GG to those [Light & Heavy Frames] that actually tried, and used tactics to overcome [Slayer Logistics] on the field. It's amazing what you could accomplish when you focus fire and coordinate. And it doesn't tale half a team of AVers to do it!. -It only took about 200% of the manpower I fielded to work :D Now that I've placed your 'logic' into a different perspective to show the obvious flaws with it, allow me to make some things apparent for anyone who doesn't feel like reading that drivel. It took 2 players to destroy you, and you weren't even using hardeners. You state yourself that the outcome would not have been the same had your HAV been fit defensively You allowed yourself to get trapped by AV; which is an issue of -gross incompetence- Mind you that the first two points already state an imbalance, and the 3rd point isn't even a credible basis for determining balance. On a slightly inflammatory note, perhaps you should pilot your HAV better? Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1805	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:12:00 - [8] - Quote What's to stop a Maddy with a Railgun? Surely they now have superior anti-tank, and the ability to tank all buy missiles- which are donned by another tank. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9441	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:15:00 - [9] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Armor tanks are meant to suppress infantry therefor they are better at tanking av, shield tanks are dusts "tank destroyers" therefor they can't tank av. Blasters are meant for armor tanks not shields for that very reason same with the railgun it's meant for shield tanks not armor. Still not sure how that's relevant to the discussion? Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3891	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:22:00 - [10] - Quote In no other situation would it require 2 Proto Dropsuits + 2 Proto Weapons to edge out a victory against 1 player. The situation isn't far from balanced, but it's definitely not there at the moment. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race

Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1538	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:23:00 - [11] - Quote you can also note that i have never complained about av... tbh when i see 4 shield tanks i hop out with my forge recall my madrugar and call my saga 2...is actually works to great success i find i take shield tanks out more reliably with my av rig than my new rail tank...although i always was an aver where as i am a terrible sniper and running rail tanks is pretty new to me... i just think forge lav is a better cqc dueler than rail tanks try my methana fit for forging lols methana 1complex pg 1 enhanced heavy armor repp no turret 1 complex nitro.. drive circles around shield tanks demolishing them with forge or even better plc flux re combo is just nasty
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1538	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:23:00 - [12] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: In no other situation would it require 2 Proto Dropsuits + 2 Proto Weapons to edge out a victory against 1 player. The situation isn't far from balanced, but it's definitely not there at the moment. yeah your right in most cases is just takes me.. but adding another is just cake
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3525	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:36:00 - [13] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Rynoceros wrote: In no other situation would it require 2 Proto Dropsuits + 2 Proto Weapons to edge out a victory against 1 player. The situation isn't far from balanced, but it's definitely not there at the moment. yeah your right in most cases is just takes me.. but adding another is just cake This. The only tanks it's hard to solo right now are Madrugars with a lot of rep, and that's more because the consistent DPS is difficult to land while they track their blaster turrets through their goddamn hulls. What with the current state of blasters, it'd sort out quite a few problems were that fixed. Otherwise, it's time to wait a little to see what happens with reppers. CCP Rattati Best Dev I gots to stop making 3am posts...
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3891	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:43:00 - [14] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Rynoceros wrote: In no other situation would it require 2 Proto Dropsuits + 2 Proto Weapons to edge out a victory against 1 player. The situation isn't far from balanced, but it's definitely not there at the moment. yeah your right in most cases is just takes me.. but adding another is just cake I can solo some HAVs, but they have to expose their weak spot and I have to put a bit of effort into positioning (i.e. take high ground, provide my own Nanos, Uplinks to get back to my nest, and pray that a blueberry isn't trying to grenade spam a random red nanohive.) Seven out of ten times, the pilot or his teammates are attracted to my big glowing orb and I'm faced with either a 80GJ cannon of some sort or 6 infantrymen with CRs and RRs eating my HP up while I try to charge an escape shot or cope with the "weapon wheel of fail" in a frustrating attempt to put the SMG on them. But, you probably use a squad and are on the side of the board with the coordinated, non-NPC squads more often than not. I'm usually solo and being Scotty'd into submission with all of the NPC scrubs on the other side. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2533	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:43:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Armor tanks are meant to suppress infantry therefor they are better at tanking av, shield tanks are dusts "tank destroyers" therefor they can't tank av. Blasters are meant for armor tanks not shields for that very reason same with the railgun it's meant for shield tanks not armor. Still not sure how that's relevant to the discussion? He thinks shield tanks can tank av without hardners I just explained why they can't. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2533	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:45:00 - [16] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: What's to stop a Maddy with a Railgun? Surely they now have superior anti-tank, and the ability to tank all buy missiles- which are donned by another tank. Try fitting one yet? There may be like 5 total players who can make a decent fit with that. Reminder you will have no DMG mods whereas the shield tank will have 2 with a hardner. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1538	Posted - 2014.06.14 17:58:00 - [17] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Rynoceros wrote: In no other situation would it require 2 Proto Dropsuits + 2 Proto Weapons to edge out a victory against 1 player. The situation isn't far from balanced, but it's definitely not there at the moment. yeah your right in most cases is just takes me.. but adding another is just cake I can solo some HAVs, but they have to expose their weak spot and I have to put a bit of effort into positioning (i.e. take high ground, provide my own Nanos, Uplinks to get back to my nest, and pray that a blueberry isn't trying to grenade spam a random red nanohive.) Seven out of ten times, the pilot or his teammates are attracted to my big glowing orb and I'm faced with either a 80GJ cannon of some sort or 6 infantrymen with CRs and RRs eating my HP up while I try to charge an escape shot or cope with the "weapon wheel of fail" in a frustrating attempt to put the SMG on them. But, you probably use a squad and are on the side of the board with the coordinated, non-NPC squads more often than not. I'm usually solo and being Scotty'd into submission with all of the NPC scrubs on the other side. yeah see your an uprising aver thats very new av style i am a chromosome vet..i dont sit and wait for the tank i pull up ina lav a (light attack vehicle) and ambush them. if they are fighting a blue tank i am running guardian on you better bet your ass your gunna see a proto av suit fly out of a lav real quick like add just that touch of yummy dps to the situation and end the duel. the way i see av ina lav..your like a mini tank you have lower dps...but your faster and much more mobile at the cost of tank-ability... so what does that bring to the field? well when taz is following me around running guardian on my tank half the time he gets the kills half the time i get the kills..but with 2 good avers in lavs and my blaster tank..ive killed 5 tanks in succession without burning a module. its called teamwork.. why do i worry less about infantry assassinations? because most of the time i am ina lav and i hop out to perform my role. for most of dust i have either tanked or shadowed tanks running av. with the only exception being posted forges in the proper situation..the primary av tactic i use and that i feel is most effective for light av is lav attacking a proto swarmer with a proto plcer and a blaster tank of any lvl but with a decent drive...can annihilate any tank in mere seconds. the blue tank is more the agro draw where as the av is ambush..i remember times where i rolled with a plc scout running proxies and he would hop out while i swung around the red tank and lay proxies and throw av nades where ever the tank tryed to pull to. i used to run gaurdian squads where 2 people and a green tanker would stomp 4 or 5 tanks at once..its tactics its teamwork..and people still do it. look at dark legion mottani japan has some brilliant avers my demo suits are capable of popping a tank ina few seconds by themselves if that tanks fighting another tank and i roll up..its over and there are allot of people like me taz jastad blazex i run proto swarms with 3 dmg mods prof v proto re's a 3 second spawn link lai dai packed nades and proto nanos working witha plc scout running fluxes and just re's they wont even see it coming i also run amar heavy 2 dmg modded proto forge prof V and i am adding plc to my new scout POP GOES THE WEASEL
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5272	Posted - 2014.06.14 18:00:00 - [18] - Quote Your problem is that your version of competent AV is multiple AVers outnumbering a lone HAV driver. 1 player should be able to counter any 1 other player at the same tier if they have the correct equipment. If HAV price is an issue for this to happen, then HAVs need a price reduction. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1807	Posted - 2014.06.14 18:00:00 - [19] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: What's to stop a Maddy with a Railgun? Surely they now have superior anti-tank, and the ability to tank all buy missiles- which are donned by another tank. Try fitting one yet? There may be like 5 total players who can make a decent fit with that. Reminder you will have no DMG mods whereas the shield tank will have 2 with a hardner. It's called fitting optimizations My Railgun Maddy fit? Nitro/dmg mod Enhanced hvy rep Enhanced 120 plate Enhanced Light rep or a Basic Hvy rep. Basic or Adv railgun This fit relies on staying power, havinga plate, and outmaneuvering the LolsitstillAndFire Sica tankers. Tbh though, i rely on a Neutron blaster, as the tracking speed alows me to run (literal) circles around them. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3891	Posted - 2014.06.14 18:21:00 - [20] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: [i am a chromosome vet..i dont sit and wait for the tank i pull up ina lav a (light attack vehicle) and ambush them. Chromo AV vet here, too. I get your point with LAV, but in my experience it only attracts more attention to a much larger hitbox. By the time I get a charged shot with anything but a Gastun's, the LAV and my cover are destroyed which leaves me nearly defenseless against a HAV and the handful of reds that are now alerted to my position and choice of weapon. Do you see how much invested SP you're leveraging against a single player with probably less than 5,000,000 SP invested? This is not an example of balanced. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race

Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1538	Posted - 2014.06.14 18:32:00 - [21] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Your problem is that your version of competent AV is multiple AVers outnumbering a lone HAV driver. 1 player should be able to counter any 1 other player at the same tier if they have the correct equipment. If HAV price is an issue for this to happen, then HAVs need a price reduction. no i just think that av working with tanks is more effective at dealing with enemy vehicles than just tanks alone. its how i did it in chromsome its how i do it now.
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1538	Posted - 2014.06.14 18:41:00 - [22] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: [i am a chromosome vet..i dont sit and wait for the tank i pull up ina lav a (light attack vehicle) and ambush them. Chromo AV vet here, too. I get your point with LAV, but in my experience it only attracts more attention to a much larger hitbox. By the time I get a charged shot with anything but a Gastun's, the LAV and my cover are destroyed which leaves me nearly defenseless against a HAV and the handful of reds that are now alerted to my position and choice of weapon. Do you see how much invested SP you're leveraging against a single player with probably less than 5,000,000 SP invested? This is not an example of balanced. i dont think i have ever had an issue with forge guns unless they were ina lav and capable of keeping up. my methana has a 8 second recovery time and thats not even as low as you can push it. what it comes down to is skill and in my exp the average pub match cant handle a good tripod the only imbalance i really see with av vs tanks is cost effectiveness but again it all comes down to skill. i run ina 3 man squads all the time i run av all the time i run tank all the time..im popping maddies with my adv amar logi demo rig. my amar scout walks up to tanks and instajibs them all day oh and get this blaster tanks...my lav has 144 hps ..my swarms have 175m range..i circle tanks burning scanners and hitting them from every side i can hop out of my methana at 300m hit a tank have it rush me shooting its blaster and by the time it gets to range where it can actually blow my lav up and shoot my heavy unobstructed its deadand if its not i hop in drive past it and hit it from behind like a snake. its doable its not easy...its not cheap its certainly not ******* cost effective..but if tanks had they're cost from back in the day..i would say it would be balanced they only aspect of av vs tank i think is unbalanced is cost vs effectiveness and ease of use...(and ease of use with blasters just got fixed) rails could use smaller clips in my opinion they leave allot of room for scrubbyness to much slack and more over heat but thats it missiles are pretty damn balanced
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1811	Posted - 2014.06.14 18:54:00 - [23] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Your problem is that your version of competent AV is multiple AVers outnumbering a lone HAV driver. 1 player should be able to counter any 1 other player at the same tier if they have the correct equipment. If HAV price is an issue for this to happen, then HAVs need a price reduction. no i just think that av working with tanks is more effective at dealing with enemy vehicles than just tanks alone. its how i did it in chromsome its how i do it now. So to kill a slayer logi it should require a slayer logi of equal tier + a Scout? Makes no damned sense to me. Why shouldn't it be te 'rock paper scissors' eve is so renowned for? Heavy kills assault, assault kills scout, scout kills heavy. Instead it's Heavy kills all, scout kills all, Assault kills mlt suits. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 847	Posted - 2014.06.14 20:20:00 - [24] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: At least where a gunnlogi is concerned, a forge gun and a swarmer SHRED an unhardened gunnlogi. Mind you both were at proto level, but still, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for those AVers that complain of unkillable tanks. AV played me, lured me in and eventually cut off my escape and surrounded me with their power. It was quite impressive. AV really shined last night. While I may have only lost but a few tanks to AV, they proved that they are not nearly as underpowered as they claim to be where a gunnlogi is concerned. Hardeners, of course, makes a huge difference against swarms. Though when you throw a forge gunner into the mix, you WILL have to limit your engagements severely, even with the hardeners. GG those AVers that actually try, and use tactics to overcome tankers on the field. It's amazing what you can do when you focus fire and coordinate. And it doesn't take half a team of AVers to do it! I think the small changes that have been made have made a lot of difference in the tank-A/V game. Swarms still are gimped but I've been running an Assault Forge and I usually feel I have a chance to kill tanks and that they have to at least acknowledge me. I still get killed a lot but I kill quite a bit also. Glad to see AV'ers out there doing there thing and hurting tankers and on behalf of the AV'ers, thanks for recognizing their efforts. Because, that's why.
edguy 111 Quebec United 38	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:30:00 - [25] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: At least where a gunnlogi is concerned, a forge gun and a swarmer SHRED an unhardened gunnlogi. Mind you both were at proto level, but still, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for those AVers that complain of unkillable tanks. AV played me, lured me in and eventually cut off my escape and surrounded me with their power. It was quite impressive. AV really shined last night. While I may have only lost but a few tanks to AV, they proved that they are not nearly as underpowered as they claim to be where a gunnlogi is concerned. Hardeners, of course, makes a huge difference against swarms. Though when you throw a forge gunner into the mix, you WILL have to limit your engagements severely, even with the hardeners. GG those AVers that actually try, and use tactics to overcome tankers on the field. It's amazing what you can do when you focus fire and coordinate. And it doesn't take half a team of AVers to do it! your absolutely right,i have a proto min commando with a fully max swarms launcher and i solo alot of tanks myself.i also got proto av nadesand forge gun. and when they are too nerd i ram him with jihad jeep XD peoples complaining dont know how to kill a tanks lol if you guys play against quebe united be careful destroying tanks is ours trade mark ;) (best tanker--Shadow of war from O.H---) cant kill that sob lol waaaazzaaaaa!
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1482	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:40:00 - [26] - Quote Atiim wrote: -snip- long quote It took 2 players to destroy you, and you weren't even using hardeners. You state yourself that the outcome would not have been the same had your HAV been fit defensively You allowed yourself to get trapped by AV; which is an issue of -gross incompetence- [/list] Mind you that the first two points already state an imbalance, and the 3rd point isn't even a credible basis for determining balance. On a slightly inflammatory note, perhaps you should pilot your HAV better? You know I want to ask you a question atiim. Should it take 2 players to destroy a well fit tank or just one? If one swarm launcher player is able to kill a tank or dropship then what happens when there is two? Or a swarm and a forge? If av was powerful enough to solo vehicles again vehicles would be pretty useless, especially dropships.
Winst0n W0lf Her Majesty's S3cret S3rvice 25	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:00:00 - [27] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Atiim wrote: -snip- long quote It took 2 players to destroy you, and you weren't even using hardeners. You state yourself that the outcome would not have been the same had your HAV been fit defensively You allowed yourself to get trapped by AV; which is an issue of -gross incompetence- [/list] Mind you that the first two points already state an imbalance, and the 3rd point isn't even a credible basis for determining balance. On a slightly inflammatory note, perhaps you should pilot your HAV better? You know I want to ask you a question atiim. Should it take 2 players to destroy a well fit tank or just one? If one swarm launcher player is able to kill a tank or dropship then what happens when there is two? Or a swarm and a forge? If av was powerful enough to solo vehicles again vehicles would be pretty useless, especially dropships. It should take 2 people to kill a well fit tank with a good pilot. It should not, however, take 2 people with proto AV to take out a scrub tanker in a mlt tank, which is how it has been for, what, 6 months now? One competent AV player should also be able to at least do some area denial, which is not the case. Both the ISK and SP investments are horribly imbalanced. Alpha was a good step, but there's still more work to be done. Making tanks expensive again would be a pretty simple way to get there now. I solve problems. I'm also John Demonsbane.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 1005	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:04:00 - [28] - Quote Winst0n W0lf wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Atiim wrote: -snip- long quote It took 2 players to destroy you, and you weren't even using hardeners. You state yourself that the outcome would not have been the same had your HAV been fit defensively You allowed yourself to get trapped by AV; which is an issue of -gross incompetence- [/list] Mind you that the first two points already state an imbalance, and the 3rd point isn't even a credible basis for determining balance. On a slightly inflammatory note, perhaps you should pilot your HAV better? You know I want to ask you a question atiim. Should it take 2 players to destroy a well fit tank or just one? If one swarm launcher player is able to kill a tank or dropship then what happens when there is two? Or a swarm and a forge? If av was powerful enough to solo vehicles again vehicles would be pretty useless, especially dropships. It should take 2 people to kill a well fit tank with a good pilot. It should not, however, take 2 people with proto AV to take out a scrub tanker in a mlt tank, which is how it has been for, what, 6 months now? One competent AV player should also be able to at least do some area denial, which is not the case. Both the ISK and SP investments are horribly imbalanced. Alpha was a good step, but there's still more work to be done. Making tanks expensive again would be a pretty simple way to get there now. That's my point, Proto tankers should be tough to take down, unlike MLT tankers. MLT swarms, should make a MLT tanker pause. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 1005	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:17:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: Now that I've placed your 'logic' into a different perspective to show the obvious flaws with it, allow me to make some things apparent for anyone who doesn't feel like reading that drivel. It took 2 players to destroy you, and you weren't even using hardeners. You state yourself that the outcome would not have been the same had your HAV been fit defensively You allowed yourself to get trapped by AV; which is an issue of -gross incompetence- Mind you that the first two points already state an imbalance, and the 3rd point isn't even a credible basis for determining balance. On a slightly inflammatory note, perhaps you should pilot your HAV better? /facepalm Yes, I "allowed" myself to get trapped. Either that's how terrible I was, or that was how awesome they were. I had a back and forth MANY times with this group of AVers, I failed to mention I was running small proto rails with a large proto rail, and a single blueberry gunner. I played around the AV, continuously changing my position, keeping them disoriented. The other tanks on the field were simply dying to them, as I was keeping my presence known and strong. By no means did they have an easy time, and I just lost the one. What they did do was minimize my impact severely on the battlefield. While I may have topped the board in WP, they won the match. And a large part of that was keeping me suppressed (and the other tanks on the field), or pushing me off the point I was pushing. I've been driving a tank for over a year now, so yes, it takes 2 plus players to take me on. Or simply one sneaky player. And you misunderstood, the outcome would have been the same defensively fit. In fact, I may have very well been, as I recall running gunners, and my rail gunner fit uses double hardeners + a nitro. Either case, Proto AV can be a problem for gunnlogis. It's just that most AV hardly bother anymore. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 850	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:20:00 - [30] - Quote I've mostly given up trying to explain to tankers about balance. You can only explain 1<2 so many times and have them reply 1=3 before you realize you aren't getting anywhere. The logical inconsistency of the argument will probably always draw me in, but as far as enjoyable gameplay I am satisfied that Rattati is aware of the problems and has looked at possible solutions. Fixing the damage glitch and lowering vehicle reps is likely going to be enough to make me happy. Swarms will still need fixing, tanks will still have an unfair advantage but swarms will get fixed and I'm OK with the rest. Because, that's why.



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