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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9498
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Posted - 2014.06.16 06:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ah nuts. I lost the other half of my reply >.<
Oh well, I'll re-type it in the morning.
Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical.
Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation.
-HAND
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
239
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Posted - 2014.06.16 06:49:00 -
[62] - Quote
A single av'r proto swarm prof 5 with 3-4 complex dam mods vs. a no sp milita blaster. Tank wins. Pilots find it balanced.
Lonewolf till I die
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
858
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Posted - 2014.06.16 07:22:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Most of us AV'ers are arguing that two players with equal SP invested, equal ISK expenditure and equal skill should have equal chances of killing one another.
This seems not only reasonable, but obvious. If you don't agree with this, please explain why. And I have a question, how effective is my large railgun or missile setups against AV? Considering they are not very effective at all when it comes to killing infantry compared to the blaster counterpart, why is it so important that these types of tanks be denied an area? I have been a railgun user, with the intent to use them against vehicles AND infantry, for a very long time now. I consider my aim a cut above most railgun users that attempt to AI with it. And I can still say that I miss A LOOOOT. With missiles, it's just insane how much I miss. I do better with the splash damage of the railgun. So on average, in a game void of tanks, and light on competent AV, I can maybe get 10 to 15 kills, some of those being kills to an LAV driver or 2. I see proto suit heavies and scouts consistently get more kills than that. More often than not though, I get maybe 7 kills, and upwards to 2000 WP for my efforts. So please explain how a railgun or missile setup (somebody) needs to be destroyed as soon as it rears it's face. I will admit that running gunners (good ones at that) results in a much higher kill count for the tank as a whole, but I'm also removing 2 extra people from the field.
I get killed plenty by railtanks and often see them turn the tide in a battle all by themselves. They can kill everything; installations, infantry, LAV's, dropships, tanks while also providing cover and area denial for their team. So, I am not sure what you are getting at, an average railgun tanker has more impact than an average infantry. They are also much harder to kill than an average infantryman. I don't think this is really arguable.
Of course there are guys in dropsuits who can decimate an entire team but we aren't comparing players, we are comparing tools. We have to look at ALL examples of a given tool, not cherrypick ones that suit our purposes. The fact is that it is the tank, not the player, that creates the advantage tankers have. If the average kdr of tanks against infantry was around 1-1, then I would agree with your argument, but it isn't. The average kdr of infantry-infantry is exactly 1-1.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
858
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Posted - 2014.06.16 07:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Again, with this being said, I do believe that AV needs a slight tweak, but its getting to the right spot. AV should never compete with tanks for raw stats, because the nature of being an infantryman is that you have such a potential to be evasive and elusive, where vehicles struggle much of the time.
You make some very good points. Infantry can use terrain to their advantage in area a tank just can't. Cities, high elevations, obstructions, ect.
Tanks can't, but tankers can. You can wear the exact same dropsuit I am wearing inside of your tank. Pop out of your tank and you are at no disadvantage against me, pop into your tank and you once again have a huge advantage over me. So, no, tankers are not giving up anything.
Because, that's why.
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
241
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Posted - 2014.06.16 07:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Again, with this being said, I do believe that AV needs a slight tweak, but its getting to the right spot. AV should never compete with tanks for raw stats, because the nature of being an infantryman is that you have such a potential to be evasive and elusive, where vehicles struggle much of the time.
You make some very good points. Infantry can use terrain to their advantage in area a tank just can't. Cities, high elevations, obstructions, ect. Tanks can't, but tankers can. You can wear the exact same dropsuit I am wearing inside of your tank. Pop out of your tank and you are at no disadvantage against me, pop into your tank and you once again have a huge advantage over me. So, no, tankers are not giving up anything.
Very good point you don't know how many times I've taken a tank ( with help ) only to have a sentinel hop out as it burns and mow me down, or a commando jump out and rep it laughing at my submachine-gun.
Lonewolf till I die
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
241
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Posted - 2014.06.16 07:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
If Duna and milkman haven't made the " balance " obvious nothing will.
Lonewolf till I die
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect
1345
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Posted - 2014.06.16 13:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:
Seven out of ten times, the pilot or his teammates are attracted to my big glowing orb
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Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
510
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Posted - 2014.06.16 19:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Again, with this being said, I do believe that AV needs a slight tweak, but its getting to the right spot. AV should never compete with tanks for raw stats, because the nature of being an infantryman is that you have such a potential to be evasive and elusive, where vehicles struggle much of the time.
You make some very good points. Infantry can use terrain to their advantage in area a tank just can't. Cities, high elevations, obstructions, ect. Tanks can't, but tankers can. You can wear the exact same dropsuit I am wearing inside of your tank. Pop out of your tank and you are at no disadvantage against me, pop into your tank and you once again have a huge advantage over me. So, no, tankers are not giving up anything.
Thats an entirely different issue. |
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
925
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Posted - 2014.06.16 19:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:Lai dai packed av nades + wiyrokromi swarms + nanohives makes my triple rep maddy cry.
It makes them pop their nitrous and run away like the little girl they are. You'll get them if they don't have their rep skill up.
The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
10684
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Posted - 2014.06.16 21:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
I soloed a Gunlogi with a Forgegun...... admittedly Patrick57 was hacking it and had killed the operator...... but I did it!
"You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength."
-Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1008
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Posted - 2014.06.16 23:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I soloed a Gunlogi with a Forgegun...... admittedly Patrick57 was hacking it and had killed the operator...... but I did it!
I soloed several gunnlogi (maddies too, triple reps is a ***** though) yesterday with my proto forge and packed (standard at that) AV nades. I admit I used an LAV so I didn't do it without the help of some vehicle. But man do I like 1500 -2500 WP a match running lone wolf:)
Even tried out an ADV plasma cannon against a gunnlogi. At one point I picked up another plasma cannon user in my LAV, and we double shot a gunnlogi, didn't kill him but man did he run for his life. This was THROUGH a hardener.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1008
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Posted - 2014.06.16 23:12:00 -
[72] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Again, with this being said, I do believe that AV needs a slight tweak, but its getting to the right spot. AV should never compete with tanks for raw stats, because the nature of being an infantryman is that you have such a potential to be evasive and elusive, where vehicles struggle much of the time.
You make some very good points. Infantry can use terrain to their advantage in area a tank just can't. Cities, high elevations, obstructions, ect. Tanks can't, but tankers can. You can wear the exact same dropsuit I am wearing inside of your tank. Pop out of your tank and you are at no disadvantage against me, pop into your tank and you once again have a huge advantage over me. So, no, tankers are not giving up anything. Thats an entirely different issue.
I actually don't play this way unless it's a PC. Most times, I use my tank as a suit, and RARELY ever jump out. Not that I couldn't kill the guy with my gun, but because I can typically manage in my tank. Either with escape OR the kill. But something else to consider, my suit skills are weak, as most all my points are dumped into vehicles.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
10685
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Posted - 2014.06.16 23:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:True Adamance wrote:I soloed a Gunlogi with a Forgegun...... admittedly Patrick57 was hacking it and had killed the operator...... but I did it! I soloed several gunnlogi (maddies too, triple reps is a ***** though) yesterday with my proto forge and packed (standard at that) AV nades. I admit I used an LAV so I didn't do it without the help of some vehicle. But man do I like 1500 -2500 WP a match running lone wolf:) Even tried out an ADV plasma cannon against a gunnlogi. At one point I picked up another plasma cannon user in my LAV, and we double shot a gunnlogi, didn't kill him but man did he run for his life. This was THROUGH a hardener.
I'm really not skilled for Forges and don't often use them
"You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength."
-Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1008
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Posted - 2014.06.16 23:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:True Adamance wrote:I soloed a Gunlogi with a Forgegun...... admittedly Patrick57 was hacking it and had killed the operator...... but I did it! I soloed several gunnlogi (maddies too, triple reps is a ***** though) yesterday with my proto forge and packed (standard at that) AV nades. I admit I used an LAV so I didn't do it without the help of some vehicle. But man do I like 1500 -2500 WP a match running lone wolf:) Even tried out an ADV plasma cannon against a gunnlogi. At one point I picked up another plasma cannon user in my LAV, and we double shot a gunnlogi, didn't kill him but man did he run for his life. This was THROUGH a hardener. I'm really not skilled for Forges and don't often use them
My alt is, and man do I love that AFG. With a decent aim, tanks just cry. Dropships too, but that requires some pretty insane aim at times.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
10685
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Posted - 2014.06.16 23:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:True Adamance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:True Adamance wrote:I soloed a Gunlogi with a Forgegun...... admittedly Patrick57 was hacking it and had killed the operator...... but I did it! I soloed several gunnlogi (maddies too, triple reps is a ***** though) yesterday with my proto forge and packed (standard at that) AV nades. I admit I used an LAV so I didn't do it without the help of some vehicle. But man do I like 1500 -2500 WP a match running lone wolf:) Even tried out an ADV plasma cannon against a gunnlogi. At one point I picked up another plasma cannon user in my LAV, and we double shot a gunnlogi, didn't kill him but man did he run for his life. This was THROUGH a hardener. I'm really not skilled for Forges and don't often use them My alt is, and man do I love that AFG. With a decent aim, tanks just cry. Dropships too, but that requires some pretty insane aim at times.
I know what you mean...... I'm not really much for Forges though.... I like withing hails of fire at short range from a well dug trench or other siege works emplacement.
....actually I just channel Iron Warriors in Dust.....
Eitherway once I have decided what to use the last of my SP on I will start rolling out Forge Guns.
"You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength."
-Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
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