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Where is the militia HMG?

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The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3253	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:09:00 - [1] - Quote Cant find it in the spreadsheet and i thoutht it was one of the weapons which aswell deserved a militia variant. After all we have militia heavys and even a forgegun. Please put a HMG into the patch before you throw the patch at us.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 290	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:19:00 - [2] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Cant find it in the spreadsheet and i thoutht it was one of the weapons which aswell deserved a militia variant. After all we have militia heavys and even a forgegun. Please put a HMG into the patch before you throw the patch at us. I imagine you can't find anything because a militia HMG has probably been banned by Concord. Could you imagine the mayhem if untrained users were wielding those things? Pretty sure that's a war crime. Edit: In all seriousness, yes, it should have its own variant at MLT.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3502	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:57:00 - [3] - Quote Also, yes, it would be a war crime. A delicious, delicious war crime that costs 625 ISK for total pwnage. CCP Rattati Best Dev Sorry, Blowout...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2602	Posted - 2014.06.14 01:42:00 - [4] - Quote There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 872	Posted - 2014.06.14 01:57:00 - [5] - Quote A militia HMG with typical militia-level nerfs would indeed be too powerful. I imagine a ~15% damage Nerf (from standard) and a ~250 clip would be a good place to start. Perhaps less range, too. Hard to know without the ability to plug things in myself and get all shooty-shooty. Definitely have to be careful in this case, as opposed to other weapons. I am a minotaur.
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1800	Posted - 2014.06.14 02:06:00 - [6] - Quote What if we decreased the Optimal, but kept Effective where it currently is, along with a (small) hipfire accuracy decrease? Doom mode(crouch + ADS(lol)) should make it as accurate as current Doom Mode. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 277	Posted - 2014.06.14 02:43:00 - [7] - Quote Damn. I was really looking forward to a militia HMG. Love my militia heavy, just need that HMG. Gimme. Desperate attempt to get BPOs
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1296	Posted - 2014.06.14 02:47:00 - [8] - Quote Can you give it kick like no other? I think I'm over Dust now...
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 432	Posted - 2014.06.14 04:01:00 - [9] - Quote overheat at 60 shots 2/3 the range balanced Scout V HMG
medomai grey warravens Final Resolution. 810	Posted - 2014.06.14 04:25:00 - [10] - Quote If the normal disadvantages of mlt weapons is not enough, then we have problems with the weapon that need addressing. Why treat a symptom instead of the source of the problem? ISK and SP should never be used to balance as you can have an unlimited amount of both, making any attempt to balance with such factors futile. Medium frame EHP is not medium

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1346	Posted - 2014.06.14 04:25:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc A higher heat cost or the current assault HMG dmg would do it Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1798	Posted - 2014.06.14 05:00:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc Copy the intended Militia HMG values and paste them into the Boundless HMG. Work downwards from there, such that no HMG remains too powerful. Once you reach the bottom, the Militia one will be perfect. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1350	Posted - 2014.06.14 06:09:00 - [13] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc Copy the intended Militia HMG values and paste them into the Boundless HMG. Work downwards from there, such that no HMG remains too powerful. Once you reach the bottom, the Militia one will be perfect. Show me on the doll where the HMG touched you Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 817	Posted - 2014.06.14 06:23:00 - [14] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc Copy the intended Militia HMG values and paste them into the Boundless HMG. Work downwards from there, such that no HMG remains too powerful. Once you reach the bottom, the Militia one will be perfect. Show me on the doll where the HMG touched you He's gonna need more than 10 fingers to point that out... http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust, theme
Sirpidey Adtur Aloren Foundations 147	Posted - 2014.06.14 06:24:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc I don't understand. Militia is not supposed to be a synonym for worthless. Yes, militia gear should be somewhat worse, but ultimately able to compete with the real deal in the hands of a skilled user. Simply give it the extra .5 reload time, and 75% of clipsize of the base HMG, as well as the cpu/pg usage increase.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3253	Posted - 2014.06.14 07:53:00 - [16] - Quote dont touch the damage but increase the heat build up. That is espacially a drawback when fighting other heavys.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2271	Posted - 2014.06.14 08:30:00 - [17] - Quote But if a mlt version would be too powerful, why not nerf the other versions? Something like, less range for example. PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 819	Posted - 2014.06.14 08:54:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc You could actually fix that problem by giving the HMG actual spread through the reticule. 90% of that reticule is wasted space, and makes no sense to have, as almost all the bullets land within 1-4 pixels of the crosshair pixel..... That's an entire void of empty space included inside the reticule that doesn't make any sense. Yes, that kind of reticule is standard for other games, but that is only because if you segmented it vertically, or horizontally, or any other direction, into thirds the bullets would hit within each zone with an even 33.3% spread for each region inside the reticule, thus the spread itself makes the gun unable to do damage at long ranges, instead of having damage dropoff. Spread is an important mechanic that can give a LOT of variation to guns, but it's only ever touched with a very timid, very long stick by the dev team, as if it's some kind of beast they've never seen before and think it could maul them. Now, back to the point at hand. If spread was actually implemented for the HMG, then the STD to PRO variants would not need any real dropoff damage, and that could all be handed down to the MLT version... Therefore, as the variants increase in quality, the spread would reduce a bit on each tier, this would have a twofold effect of increasing range, and reliable damage dealt. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust, theme
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 1704	Posted - 2014.06.14 09:00:00 - [19] - Quote I would go with a 15% reduction to optimal, a 5% reduction to RoF and a 10% reduction to clip size. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3671	Posted - 2014.06.14 10:10:00 - [20] - Quote The problem with a mlt HMG is that it requires weaponry level 5 just to unlock heavy weapon operation...and then I think you need heavy weapon operation level 3 to access HMGs (I could be wrong though) So a MLT HMG needs to be horrid enough that you would want to spend those hundreds of thousands of skill points to use the standard one over the MLT. MLT heavies have a lot of cpu/pg to start out with, so increasing the fitting cost to more than your average increase for a mlt weapon wouldn't do much. We can balance the MLT HMG by increasing the punishment of the annoyances of the HMG. The first thing is the ammo capacity and reload. The HMG reload is one of the slowest I have ever seen in an FPS, and the majority of FPS players like to reload every time they kill someone. By decreasing the ammo capacity and increasing reload, you effectively make the MLT HMG very limited in effectiveness over time. Normal HMGs have a capacity of 425 (450?), so something like 300 would be perfect for the MLT. A 2-3 second increase in reload time would also be perfect. Damage output I would leave the same though. You want new players to use the HMG on a MLT heavy frame and feel powerful against other players. But if they go up against another heavy or get caught reloading at the wrong time, they will realize that it's not just an "I win" button. The overheat I would increase to about the same ratio as the standard HMG to its ammo capacity. In other words if the HMG overheats after about half the clip, then the MLT one should overheat after about a half the clip. So instead of after 200 rounds or so, it would be about 150 rounds. Either way, the goal is to make the HMG fun to use at MLT level (as well as a way to counter proto suits or other mlt heavies) but to be at a huge disadvantage when going against even a standard level HMG. In the item description on the marketplace, it should specifically state what the downsides are to the weapon to encourage the spending of skill points. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3253	Posted - 2014.06.14 12:00:00 - [21] - Quote Honestly if you think that a weapon type is too powerfull to be militia then why you even started to introduce allmost all light weapons to begin with? You should not be limited by SP to start to play as you want to play. Militia heavys are very squishy because they have lower HP, less module slots and even less PG+CPU then a proper sentinel suit. Allmost every role should be avaible on the get go without spending tons of SP and thats what militia stuff is good for finding out what you like and what not. When the forgegun can have a militia variant then the HMG deserves aswell one.
manboar thunder fist SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.06.14 13:28:00 - [22] - Quote i think the militia HMG should have the same damage as the assault version, around 15 i think but a slower ROF now thinking about it though, nearly 5/10 of the population use heavy at some time, they are pretty powerful and this shows it's not too hard to skill into them, i think that you should require weaponry 5 just to use the MLT hmg, weird ik, but last thing we need is every blueberry swapping the frontline suit for a heavy that can destroy a proto scout for 1/10th of the cost in less time than the scout can kill it.... Even in my heavy it would suck to have every enemy pull out a MLT heavy because it's just OP if everyone uses high HP suits with high DPS.... a mlt heavy suit is already as viable as a basic one so introduce MLT Hmgs? why not just give every one MLT core locus grenades and MLT assault rail rifles too and while we are at it, MLT large missile turrets and MLT assault dropships ... -.- NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Demon-Venom Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.06.14 14:44:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc Can you make the damage lower? I got killed in one sec by a STD HMG and it was 1v1
Disturbingly Bored Forum Warfare 2283	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:21:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc I love my bullet hose, but yes, Militia HMG would need significant limitations to keep it from being too strong. And I agree it still needs to be fun to use though, otherwise there's no point. As it so happens, I was tossing this idea around a while ago. And I thought this looked fair: Damage: 18 RPM: 2400 Clip Size: 300 Max. Bullets: 1050 Heat Build-up: 18 Effective Range: 45m Absolute Range: 112.5m PG: 9 CPU: 70 The basic DPS is the same as the standard HMG. That's to let people get a taste for the gun, and have it still perform at what the HMG is supposed to be good at. To make up for that, I'd reduce the clip size and max. bullets by 30%, and then increase the heat build up by 30%. I'd also reduced the effective and absolute ranges by 10%. Fitting costs are nerfed proportionately to other militia weapons. I think that leaves you with a militia HMG that's usable and still fun, but no substitute for a proper HMG. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 116	Posted - 2014.06.15 02:14:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost msmaller clipuch higher reload etc msmaller clipuch 400 round drum instead of 425 or 15-25% less rounds in the drum. Edit: you ment Much smaller clip I don't even know why I bother.
Powerh8er Ganking Jugend 441	Posted - 2014.06.16 19:16:00 - [26] - Quote Too powerfull, eyh? cough... militia 80gj rail gun... cough cough
MINA Longstrike 872	Posted - 2014.06.16 19:22:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc If the problem is that it's too powerful at mlt levels, that's probably because it's too powerful at non militia levels. If the lower clip size / higher heat and 10% less damage than proto aren't balanced it should be indicative of a larger overall problem with the weapon. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 771	Posted - 2014.06.17 18:03:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc Lower damage & magazine size, increase heat cost per shot, and leave the range, RoF, and reload time the same. Example stats: Militia (Compared to standard) [Militia Heavy Machine Gun] Damage: 15 HP (-3) (-16.7%) Rate of Fire:2400 RPM (Same) DPS: 600 HP/s (-120) (-16.7%) Clip Size: 319 (-106) (-25%) Max. Ammo: 1200 (-300) (-20%) Reload Time: 9s (Same) Heat Build-Up Per Second: 17.5 (3.5)(+25%) Fix regular HMGs, they definitely need a bit more heat buildup and small damage nerf; standard should deal 17 damage per shot, which is a 5% damage nerf, and that will make it have around 680 DPS (40 DPS less). MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 817	Posted - 2014.06.17 18:47:00 - [29] - Quote from the many times ive used the hmg. the only time ive found it to be ammo efficient is when i was at point blank range. and that took me about 80 rounds to kill a mlt newberrie. sure it can be devastating buts that due to how many bullets it can spew out in such a short time frame. id say a clip of 325 would be irritating enough for the mlt hmg. hell it probably wouldnt be enough. in an hmg vs hmg fight. plus it most certainly would require a reload after each kill as 200 rounds is the average amount of ammo used on a single player. from what ive seen. dust 514 shall be eternal. pve for dust 514. dont worry my logis. i will protect u. unless its a scout. itd be too late
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3717	Posted - 2014.06.17 19:23:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: There is an ongoing concern that it is too powerful at the militia level and nerfing it would make it less fun and spoil players expectation. We are holding off on it for the time being, but feel free to come up with the right hmg militia weaknesses on top of normal PG/CPU increase, higher heat cost much smaller clip higher reload etc All of the above. - Overhead equivalent to the Burst HMG. - 2/3 the clip size of a Standard HMG. - 10 Second base reload time. Plenty to give them a taste of the HMG, but they better carry a good sidearm! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.



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