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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
989
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Posted - 2014.06.09 18:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: 3) Just curious...is is possible to tweak the reticle for small turrets?
That reticle makes a bigger difference than most think!
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
989
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Posted - 2014.06.09 18:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Stacking pilot skills in ADS to get 100% RoF instead of 50% makes vehicle TTK too low. You can kill basically every vehicle in the game in a single pass that way. Please remove pilot stacking from ADS and only use the highest skill of the pilot or gunner, not both
This **** seriously needs to be addressed. There is no reason skills should every stack like this.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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manboar thunder fist
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
51
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Well guess what, tankers get cheesed off about being blown up while going 30-0 and getting weekly KD/S like 540 ?!
I call bull on this one.
Fix the TTk, fix the blaster, but give militia players a fighting chance against Vehicle pilots. Seriously, listen to all these blabber heads, i got 18 mil in vehicles, i got 42 mil in vehicles.
Does billybob bobbybill's 41 million SP in dropsuits make him unkillable to infantry? HELL NAW
I continue to hunt down protofit players with scores of 40-0s in games and trophy kill them with my basic breach assault rifle... If i was unable to kill a 40 million sp player 1 v1 i would leave this game... SURE, he has a huge advantage, but he isn't UNKILLABLE...
I wish you luck in your vehicle balancing endeavours, but hear my words when i say this:
Every player should have the ability to kill a tank if he has suprise, modules and coordinated search and destroy tactics on his side...
How stupid would it be if i snuck up on commander of black with my breach assault rifle only for him to turn around and kill me in 0.5 seconds. Balance the game sure, but give the militia nubs a fighting chance!
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
nerf life
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1553
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote: Does billybob bobbybill's 41 million SP in dropsuits make him unkillable to infantry? HELL NAW
That is not a productive statement, but it is awesome. +1
manboar thunder fist wrote: How stupid would it be if i snuck up on commander of black with my breach assault rifle only for him to turn around and kill me in 0.5 seconds.
That's Uprising 1.0 thru 1.6 from a Scout's perspective. Indeed, it was "stupid".
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Sir Dukey
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1000
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:nerf damage mods so that a sica with a particle cannon and double damage mods doesnt insta pop anything on the map. The armor reps should be nerfed so that there is a reason to throw a hardener/plate on and not just the 1 fit that rules them all (double rep+hardener).
About the speed: you recently removed the "stunlock" effect from infantry weapons. Would there be a way to give AV weapons this effect to slow down vehicles when they get hit? That might be a way to solve the issue that tanks can allways run off from vehicles. And by AV i aswell mean av grenades. vehicles can't even kill infantry anymore. Also- they aren't even that powerful. 4 rounds from proto forgegunner hiding in a corner kills most tanks. |
Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
257
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open. How about make the tracks a sweet spot also like 100% back sweet spot 110% If you want you could harden the front to 80% |
Sir Dukey
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1000
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open.
damage mods don't need the 30% reduced, they need stacking removed. So, only one damage mod at a time. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15404
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open. damage mods don't need the 30% reduced, they need stacking removed. So, only one damage mod at a time.
You mean unique module. (stacking applies against bonuses at times too found on hulls)
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
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Sir Dukey
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1000
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open. 1) Cheap glass cannons, you have them because the modules are time based. Rather than scaling the effectiveness of mods, all you get is an increase in active time or shorter cooldowns. For instance, damage mods provide 30% ACROSS THE BOARD. When a battle last less than 5 seconds, what use is the extra cooldown time or any extra uptime? I say, mods cooldown and uptime, SHOULD BE THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD. In this way, the 2 skills that affect uptime and cooldown time can be utilized by real tankers then scale the mods from there. Maybe tweak those skills a little too eh. For example: Shield hardener Std - 20% at 25 seconds Adv - 25% at 25 seconds Pro - 30% at 25 seconds Get the picture. Why use the proto version when all I need is the STD version, as it provides the exact same benefit at a MUCH reduced cost. 2) Damage mods, this is a no brainer. I can personally attest to how incredibly useless hardeners are when it comes to hunting other tanks. While a tank may stack as many hardeners as they please, it's STILL only 2 to 3 shots for my double damage modded setup, with all active. Additionally, while I may be weak on the shield side, using damage mods allows me to stack armor in the lows, meaning a triple hardened fit will need more shots to drop me in kind. Honestly though, I really feel damage need to come down on turrets as a whole. Is dropping another tank in 5 shots NOT USING DEFENSES really too much to ask for? We need time to actually use SKILL in a tank battle. 3) I have a piece up on the forums that does mention this, that I imagine you have read already. Increase how often reps are applied, IE every 3 to 5 seconds or greater. It's very simple and easy, and I really feel that would have the largest impact with them. It would place a bit less importance on having triple reps and more on a plate to mitigate the damage for reps to heal. And would also mean they have to disengage FAR more often from their enemies to survive. 4) As I've mentioned before as well, the speed is fine. It's the fact that you can go from 0 to 100 in the blink of the eye that poses the largest problem. Increasing the time it takes to reach max speed is the way to go here. A tank would have to react and back away from a dangerous situation much earlier, decreasing their total time in an engagement. Or be destroyed, like it used to be before these stupid tank "Improvements" came about. 5) What? Shield tanks are my babies, and always have been. Those noobs need to learn to drive, is all I have to say. But I can see a little truth to this. -Shield booster don't work properly -Turret depression makes a HUGE difference (A maddie can easily shoot from cover while a shield tank must position themselves at a downward angle. Fix this please so that only the blaster has that kind of turret depression) -Incredibly low eHP in comparison to the maddie, and a pathetic one time use heal that just doesn't help with damage mitigation I run a double damage mod, nitro fit, stacking armor in the lows. I have killed MANY shield and armor tanks. Armor tanks though ALWAYS require more shots than a shield tank to drop. Which leads me to believe that yes, they are a bit OP when compared to the gunnlogi, but not by a huge margin. 6) Large blasters are good AV weapons against shield tanks, but against armor they seem to fizzle out. This is part due to the fact that armor tanks are very tough to start with (without fittings) and those damned reps the possess. Now I personally have not had the chance to try the blaster after you fixed them (rocky mountain spotted fever is really taking a toll on my brain) so I can't comment on them much, nor have I seen many speak of their infantry effectiveness. Or did you leave the large blaster changes out? Sorry, heads been very fuzzy of late, hope to get better soon and provide a more thorough analysis. I will say though that anything you do is simply putting a bandaid on a gushing wound. Tanks were stripped to nothing, with the intention to rebuild them in future patches, and then forgotten with that pathetic thing they call "legion". Unless you address the fact that they are unfinished products, I really don't see much coming from tanks or even vehicles for that matter. They will still remain very easy, unskilled items in the game in comparison to what infantry is.
Shield vehicles suck, 40% resistance is less resistance than I had passive in 1.6. Av is not weak, you know AV when you run into a militia swarmer in your shield tank. Even a militia swarm is enough to scare a shield tank off.
Buff shield tank resistance 50% at complex, 40% at ADV, 30% at STD.
Shield tank speed is fine and so is acceleration.
Missiles need buff against Anti- Infantry, It's literally impossible to kill a moving target without dumping whole clip. It needs better reload. STD missiles need damage buff.. 400 is too low. needs to be around 500, ADv needs 550 and PRO should be 630 per missile. The reload makes up for alpha damage. Also they are sh*t against shield tanks. |
Sir Dukey
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1000
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open. damage mods don't need the 30% reduced, they need stacking removed. So, only one damage mod at a time. You mean unique module. (stacking applies against bonuses at times too found on hulls)
Like Nitro and afterburners. You can only put one on a vehicle. |
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Cyrus Grevare
warravens Final Resolution.
222
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Posted - 2014.06.09 20:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Never been good in a tank and have 0 SP invested on them, but I think missile turrets would be cool if they had an additional fire mode: lock on tracking missiles like the swarm launchers, of course keeping the current dumb fire mode.
.02 ISK
www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15404
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 20:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open.
1. This has more to with turrets overall in terms of power, the railgun and missile launchers have some of the highest damage compressions where the blaster's damage is a bit more spread out.
There is also the simple fact that militia HAVs are too easy to fit and that they give up very little for performance where the military grade ones really suffer in fitting especially with lower fitting skills involved making the militia HAVs even far more favorable.
Both of these issues would have to be addressed at the same time. For Militia vs Military Grade the slot parity should be the same as it currently with suits. Militia vehicles however should have significantly less fittings while the military grade ones are a bit more capable in their realm; overall Militia needs to be a means of previewing a game style before one can commit sp into it. Military Grade should be the break point in ideal performance. Most HAV fits do not fit the extra turrets these days not because it is out of choice because of the necessity to fit everything else and the extra guns makes it extremely hard to do so. This now creates a problem in the power of higher tiered modules and weapons and to a degree higher skilled pointed players who can then make the HAVs truly monstrous. Ultimately this I fear is a problem that will scope beyond Bravo BUT if we continue the high pace changes it may be feasible to get away with doing parts at a time.
It may involve making the Railgun little bit more inline with common tank cannons in rate of fire and range but lowering the overall damage and compression of its dps while still making it the premier anti vehicle cannon currently available. Missiles are nearly there with their very long reload times but with the parity difference in tiers the XMLs can easily destroy most other unprepared tanks in a single volley making them absolutely dangerous in CQC.
2. Damage Modifier changes need to happen; Some say straight off nerf others suggested limitation of one, I disagree but in turn this kills not only freedom but allows favoring overstacking hardeners again making AV lives just as terrible. Lowering the overall bonus provided is most optimum in resolving the issue.
3. This is a bit of a conundrum as well. Multiple Repairers should be a thing still post nerf because the player favors faster recovery over endurance. To get could possibly be resolved by giving repairers stacking penalties. Stacking penalties for repairers is I feel an item of last resort as it will eventually lead to players making cookie cutter fits where every armor tank is the game. Alternatively is playing around with activation timers and making them activated things again. My suggestion is activation timers similar to cloaks (as long as its active and has 'fuel' it can repair. )
4. For Main Battle Tanks from a game perspective the tanks are too fast and are more akin to 'light tanks.' However there is a fine point between being slow and being clunky; responsiveness must be preserved or even further improved if vehicles where to be slowed down. Nothing frustrates vehicle pilots more than a vehicle that doesn't do exactly what they tell it to do.
5. Shields have too small of a buffer to be viable.Once the damage starts incomming its hard to recover from it whereas the armor tanks can continuously eat the damage thanks to their passive repairs. I say resolve the repairer problem first before we can analyze the roles of armor and the roles of shields in vehicular combat. Normally in eve Armor is tougher to loose but harder to recover while shields are easier to lose and easiest to recover.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
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Spartan MK420
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
509
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Posted - 2014.06.09 20:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Duke mentioned something about making pythons more resistant to swarms in that related feedback thread. I agree with this, you get 3 hit by swarms and 2 hit-3 hit by forges, 2 hit by rail tanks.
The incubus is in a very op state, it can tank single proto av users, without having to run off to heal constantly from swarm users, unlike my python which is in/out constantly. My average bombing run is 15-20 seconds, my average running time is 30-45 seconds.
It's the same with the repper maddy, armor based vehicles can get too much repps out of stacking their modules (as sica's/rails get too much dmg by stacking the dmg mods) Maybe a stacking penalty would also be in-line for vehicle modules....even my beloved python. I should have to sacrifice more shield depletion time, if I stack shield extenders. (just as the infantry) This would also make that shield depletion skill more useful, and perhaps open the door for more of a variety of builds.
Vehicles were meant to hit hard, then run and hide, right?
Support Assault changes
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2560
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 21:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Please please do something about the unkillable 3 repper madrugars.
As for the large blasters, they do not do enough DPS to be preferable to large railguns as close range AV. Large blasters need to deal more DPS then the large railguns, but large blasters need much much lower ROF than they currently have now to make them not so powerful against infantry, perhaps also give the shots travel time instead of being hit-scan as well; they still seem like anti-infantry even after hotfix Alpha. Large railguns should be like snipers (high range, low DPS), while large blasters should be more like the vehicle version of a shotgun (short range, high DPS).
Blaster doesn't need any more nerfs atm. The ttk needs to go up, not down.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2560
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Posted - 2014.06.09 21:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Please please do something about the unkillable 3 repper madrugars.
As for the large blasters, they do not do enough DPS to be preferable to large railguns as close range AV. Large blasters need to deal more DPS then the large railguns, but large blasters need much much lower ROF than they currently have now to make them not so powerful against infantry, perhaps also give the shots travel time instead of being hit-scan as well; they still seem like anti-infantry even after hotfix Alpha. Large railguns should be like snipers (high range, low DPS), while large blasters should be more like the vehicle version of a shotgun (short range, high DPS).
Blaster doesn't need any more nerfs atm.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Dunce Masterson
Savage Bullet
115
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open.
1) true the rate of fire to alpha damage rail turrets is to much either reduce its damage or reduce its rate of fire to more then 2.1. 2) yes they need to bright into line with the hardeners 3) not true its working like its supposed to as a anti infantry tank, its worthless against rails and missiles and the suicide LAV's proxy/remote traps. 4) what? so this is about dropships right? how are you going to balance them if you take there speed tank away? give them staying power? 5) I agree would it be possible to make dust 514 shield tanking(vehicles) work like it does in EVE online?
The blaster should have higher DPS then the Rail turrets then.
I don't even know why I bother.
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Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
496
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bring back the railgun's old range, but nerf it's ROF (halve it at the very least)
An average ttk of 5 seconds may be good for infantry, but tanks cannot dart in and out of cover like them either.
Make the railgun the longest range, highest alpha (but the lowest dps in exchange) ambush and kiting weapon it should - no, it DESERVES to be
Right now the railgun does the job of the other turret, but far more efficiently
missiles only reach their max burst potential at close range, medium to max range is controlled firing (thus the railgun wins except for extremely scenarios at close range). Missiles are only useful in comparison to rails if you go proto dmod rails (seriously, the missiles burst is great, but its damage potential is severely lacking in comparison to the railgun)
Blasters were mediocre AV at best, but now are almost worthless in comparison to the railgun
Also, who thought 6 railgun shots before overheating was a great idea? The standard rail got triple buffed (at 1.7) when it shouldn't have been buffed at all. |
The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1226
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.
1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective 2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf 3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective 4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk 5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now
Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.
The floor is open.
1) This statement is indeed true. Both ISK and SP wise. You can fit a full Militia Sica with Double Damage Mods on a rail and be a dangerous foe, while in contrast, you can fit double militia reps in your lows and have survivability rivalling that of a Gunloggi. A quick suggestion would be anoverall lowering of their PG / CPU, as well as reducing theiur 'off-slot' by 1, so Somas have 1 / 2, and Gunloggi have 2 /1.
2) Damage modifers having been moved from lows to highs, and made active with a 30% increase in damage really did a number on TTK when it was introduced. It allows things such as heavily tanked armor HAVs with simultaneous high Damage Output on the same hull. Whereas, under the older system, Shield HAVs were more apt to have higher natural DPS output, making up for their lack of eHP. In general, I believe this is the way it should go. Shield Tanks capable of more Gank Vs. Tank, and Vice Versa on Armor HAVs, making them more of a point guard, accommodating larger tanking figures and lower acceleration.
3) Triple reps are very bad. I recently ran an experiment where I side by side n the same match put down a Madrugar with 3 Militia Reps in the lows. It was capable of taking sustained AV fire from both a Blaster Installation, and several AV before going down. I put a Gunloggi, with Hardener, an Extender, and a Booster into the exact same situation and it was torn apart in less than half the time. A fix to this would be to apply diminishing returns to the passive repair modules. Similarly how most other modules are penalised (100%, 80%, 50%) so while it may still be somewhat viable fit (for Infantry Suppression), it would make fitting an armor plate for buffer, or a hardener much more appealing. and Increase the HAV's 'Down Time'
4) I would argue that 'very high top speeds' applies to Dropships more than HAVs, but with the assumption that it applies to both, the overall intention with the Wave of Opportunity design was to give HAVs a short span in which to engage, do their damage, then have to disengage. If you remove the ability to disengage, that hypothetical window of opportunity is diminised greatly. And thus it should be increased in other ways if things such as Vehicle SLow Down effects are added to AV weapons. Noteably in hp / regen of the Vehicles to give them much more staying power.
5) Shield Tanking is broken due to 2 things, imho. Firstly, it has a Cooldown Time. Since the Module reduction, we have no way of increasing our recharge rates as Infantry do, so our 'Down Time' cannot be dramatically decreased like a Triple Rep Madrugar. They can achieve 400+ hp/s without delay, while Gunloggi's areset with sub-200 hp/s with a shield recharge delay to prevent them 'out tanking' incoming DPS... Yet that is what Armor Tanks now have.
Coupled with the proposal above to shift Damage Mods back to Passive Lows, this would bring back an equilibrium of Gank Vs Tank for the shield tank. Making it much better suited to 'short' hit and fade engagements comparatively to the Armor Tanks. (Fixing the Booster would also help.) So in essence you'd have a clear delineation of Armor is steady, able to absorb more damage, but the Shield would be able to hit faster, and harder, but have the reduced tank as we have now.
The Black Jackal for CPM1
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15407
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Bring back the railgun's old range, but nerf it's ROF (halve it at the very least)
An average ttk of 5 seconds may be good for infantry, but tanks cannot dart in and out of cover like them either.
Make the railgun the longest range, highest alpha (but the lowest dps in exchange) ambush and kiting weapon it should - no, it DESERVES to be
Right now the railgun does the job of the other turret, but far more efficiently
missiles only reach their max burst potential at close range, medium to max range is controlled firing (thus the railgun wins except for extremely scenarios at close range). Missiles are only useful in comparison to rails if you go proto dmod rails (seriously, the missiles burst is great, but its damage potential is severely lacking in comparison to the railgun)
Blasters were mediocre AV at best, but now are almost worthless in comparison to the railgun
Also, who thought 6 railgun shots before overheating was a great idea? The standard rail got triple buffed (at 1.7) when it shouldn't have been buffed at all.
Railguns win at all ranges. There is really no rail weak spot when most railgun fitted tanks can just drive faster than the turret can turn. Overheating and reload are the only two currently and unlike missiles you're likely to destroy most targets before overheating or reloading and this is without damage mods. Where as most missiles turrets have to reload and improper management of blasters can lead to a tank surviving your onslaught.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
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Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
496
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Bring back the railgun's old range, but nerf it's ROF (halve it at the very least)
An average ttk of 5 seconds may be good for infantry, but tanks cannot dart in and out of cover like them either.
Make the railgun the longest range, highest alpha (but the lowest dps in exchange) ambush and kiting weapon it should - no, it DESERVES to be
Right now the railgun does the job of the other turret, but far more efficiently
missiles only reach their max burst potential at close range, medium to max range is controlled firing (thus the railgun wins except for extremely scenarios at close range). Missiles are only useful in comparison to rails if you go proto dmod rails (seriously, the missiles burst is great, but its damage potential is severely lacking in comparison to the railgun)
Blasters were mediocre AV at best, but now are almost worthless in comparison to the railgun
Also, who thought 6 railgun shots before overheating was a great idea? The standard rail got triple buffed (at 1.7) when it shouldn't have been buffed at all. Railguns win at all ranges. There is really no rail weak spot when most railgun fitted tanks can just drive faster than the turret can turn. Overheating and reload are the only two currently and unlike missiles you're likely to destroy most targets before overheating or reloading and this is without damage mods. Where as most missiles turrets have to reload and improper management of blasters can lead to a tank surviving your onslaught.
Exactly, railguns are blatantly OP and idiot proof. They are literally the biggest reason why tank v tank is so bad right now.
Some other issues however:
-Low price of tank hulls -Lack of viable low slot modules for shield tanks ( passive damage mods? the old shield efficiency mods?) -Tanks are mind numbingly simple to drive (I want to take damage when I hit a wall at the speed of sound, I want to slip and slide and flip upside down when my turret catches on something, I want to be punished for going offroad and rewarded for staying on the road) -There needs to be more opportunities for enemy infantry to zone tanks (deployable, nigh invincible tank traps; massive AOE webifier mines and EMP mines that disable a tank's modules and controls for 10 or so seconds) -and so on |
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Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
496
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
I also believe that the infantry AV gameplay should resemble that of a saboteur and should never compete with vehicles in their specialized area (from a raw stats point of view). With that being said, I also don't believe it is fair to be 3-4 shotted consistently by someone who can drive up 5m from my tank and hold his R1 button down on a massive target.
Sorry for going off topic. |
Alpha 443-6732
BurgezzE.T.F
496
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Oh yeah, there will never be any use for shield hardeners when a dmodded sica can take all your shields away with a single blow. |
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2560
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Posted - 2014.06.10 02:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
I'd like to say this before I address your points: The fitting for vehicles has become a shell of it used to be. Before, you could make all sorts of neat fits to do an assortment of tasks on the battlefield(within the role of the vehicle of course). a Speedy Shield tanked Kubera (Gal BO HAV) comes to mind, being able to use a 4/4 slot layout, as well as 3 turret slots. Now? I get 3/2 slot layout, and have to make my fit horrible just to fit a small turret. Not both, just one. Oh, and this is without using one of my highs as well.That needs changing, as it was never as broken as it has been in the game's life as it has been in 1.7 and beyond.
Also, there's no scaling between active modules. Before, there was an actual difference in the power between tiers.There was a actual point in getting a higher tier module. Now, half the time that's not even a good choice (see the above fitting issue).
Lastly, although it seems that you guys are working on it, AV is still sub par. AV nades, FG's and RE's are decent, but swarms needs a lot of help from other AV weapons, or a lot of other swarms to help it out, and from what I hear, PLC's still takes a lot of skill to take down even one, and even then, you'll burn through all of your ammo doing so (I think that's fine, but from what I hear, it is just
now, for your statements-
1: Although I'm not sure what you mean by "cheap" (assuming you mean cheap as in cost, and in which you'd mean a Sica with mlt damage mods), but damage mods in general is too effective. So, as I see it, there's two ways to fix them:
a- make them passive modules again with the old values, adjust from there (recommended)
b- lower their effectiveness 25-50%, and cut their active time.
Also, I'd look into decreasing the alpha potential of the rail and the missile in their own right (although make the reload on the missile not sad as hell anymore, and for legion, add actual missiles, because we have rockets now).
and lastly, as Dust Fiend pointed out, ADS's strafe runs of hell don't need to happen.
2: Look at 1
3: Bring back the active reps. Problem solved.
4: That is caused by nitro's mainly (for for DS's, AB's, which you shall not touch). and it's not the speed as most have pointed out, it's the insane acceleration. nerf the acceleration on those things. HOwever, don't even think about touching the speed.
5: This is due to the fact that boosters suck now, (imo more so than before), and that the HAV's and vehicles in general seems to be set up kinda like the Amarr and Winmatar in my opinion. I say buff the base shield of Caldari HAV's by just a bit (150-300).
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11070
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Please please do something about the unkillable 3 repper madrugars.
As for the large blasters, they do not do enough DPS to be preferable to large railguns as close range AV. Large blasters need to deal more DPS then the large railguns, but large blasters need much much lower ROF than they currently have now to make them not so powerful against infantry, perhaps also give the shots travel time instead of being hit-scan as well; they still seem like anti-infantry even after hotfix Alpha. Large railguns should be like snipers (high range, low DPS), while large blasters should be more like the vehicle version of a shotgun (short range, high DPS). Blaster doesn't need any more nerfs atm. Its like you didn't even read what I said, I want the large blasters to have MORE DPS, but at the cost of anti-infantry capabilities. If you raise DPS alone while leaving the large blasters otherwise the same, then it will be extremely overpowerful against infantry.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2560
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Please please do something about the unkillable 3 repper madrugars.
As for the large blasters, they do not do enough DPS to be preferable to large railguns as close range AV. Large blasters need to deal more DPS then the large railguns, but large blasters need much much lower ROF than they currently have now to make them not so powerful against infantry, perhaps also give the shots travel time instead of being hit-scan as well; they still seem like anti-infantry even after hotfix Alpha. Large railguns should be like snipers (high range, low DPS), while large blasters should be more like the vehicle version of a shotgun (short range, high DPS). Blaster doesn't need any more nerfs atm. Its like you didn't even read what I said, I want the large blasters to have MORE DPS, but at the cost of anti-infantry capabilities. If you raise DPS alone while leaving the large blasters otherwise the same, then it will be extremely overpowerful against infantry. Rattati said in the OP that he wants them to be primarily for AV, currently railguns are better for AV even at the blaster's optimal range. Alternatively, the large railguns could have a DPS nerf to make blasters more preferable for close range AV; if that is what happens, I would still prefer if damage got increased and ROF go decreased to make it less effective against infantry while still maintaining the same (or higher) DPS.
The DPS doesn't need raising, nor does it need to be nerfed even harder vs. infantry. That just makes the vehicle TTK worse ( a thing we're trying to fix), and it being even more pointless.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11070
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Please please do something about the unkillable 3 repper madrugars.
As for the large blasters, they do not do enough DPS to be preferable to large railguns as close range AV. Large blasters need to deal more DPS then the large railguns, but large blasters need much much lower ROF than they currently have now to make them not so powerful against infantry, perhaps also give the shots travel time instead of being hit-scan as well; they still seem like anti-infantry even after hotfix Alpha. Large railguns should be like snipers (high range, low DPS), while large blasters should be more like the vehicle version of a shotgun (short range, high DPS). Blaster doesn't need any more nerfs atm. Its like you didn't even read what I said, I want the large blasters to have MORE DPS, but at the cost of anti-infantry capabilities. If you raise DPS alone while leaving the large blasters otherwise the same, then it will be extremely overpowerful against infantry. Rattati said in the OP that he wants them to be primarily for AV, currently railguns are better for AV even at the blaster's optimal range. Alternatively, the large railguns could have a DPS nerf to make blasters more preferable for close range AV; if that is what happens, I would still prefer if damage got increased and ROF go decreased to make it less effective against infantry while still maintaining the same (or higher) DPS. The DPS doesn't need raising, nor does it need to be nerfed even harder vs. infantry. That just makes the vehicle TTK worse ( a thing we're trying to fix), and it being even more pointless.
Read the "Alternatively" part about railguns. Either way, large blasters have to become preferable to large railguns at close range, and large railguns should be preferable at longer ranges. If large blasters are meant to be anti-vehicle as Rattati states, then they are awful at it since large railguns have both the range and DPS advantage. Whether if its by buffing large blasters, or nerfing large railguns (while leaving large blaster DPS the same), large blasters need to have a niche as the close range AV option.
Rattati stated that the large blasters are now supposed to only be a suppressor of infantry, but currently even after hotfix Alpha they still just slaughter infantry as if they are meant to be primarily slayers of infantry. Many people I talk to say its now much harder to strafe and avoid being hit by large blasters because the dispersion makes shots fly at their direction even when the driver did not have aim on them.
My comments are based on Rattati's stated goals for large blasters, those goals are not met.
On the subject on TTK, I would recommend looking at damage mods; perhaps lowering their efficacy and/or adding stacking penalties.
As always with everything I post, I'm expecting you to try to get the last word in, I've said what I needed to say, so have fun.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
2390
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
We propose the following:
1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers 2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers 3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost
We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.
Here are the numbers:
Numbers
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2560
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Please please do something about the unkillable 3 repper madrugars.
As for the large blasters, they do not do enough DPS to be preferable to large railguns as close range AV. Large blasters need to deal more DPS then the large railguns, but large blasters need much much lower ROF than they currently have now to make them not so powerful against infantry, perhaps also give the shots travel time instead of being hit-scan as well; they still seem like anti-infantry even after hotfix Alpha. Large railguns should be like snipers (high range, low DPS), while large blasters should be more like the vehicle version of a shotgun (short range, high DPS). Blaster doesn't need any more nerfs atm. Its like you didn't even read what I said, I want the large blasters to have MORE DPS, but at the cost of anti-infantry capabilities. If you raise DPS alone while leaving the large blasters otherwise the same, then it will be extremely overpowerful against infantry. Rattati said in the OP that he wants them to be primarily for AV, currently railguns are better for AV even at the blaster's optimal range. Alternatively, the large railguns could have a DPS nerf to make blasters more preferable for close range AV; if that is what happens, I would still prefer if damage got increased and ROF go decreased to make it less effective against infantry while still maintaining the same (or higher) DPS. The DPS doesn't need raising, nor does it need to be nerfed even harder vs. infantry. That just makes the vehicle TTK worse ( a thing we're trying to fix), and it being even more pointless. Read the "Alternatively" part about railguns. Either way, large blasters have to become preferable to large railguns at close range, and large railguns should be preferable at longer ranges. If large blasters are meant to be anti-vehicle as Rattati states, then they are awful at it since large railguns have both the range and DPS advantage. Whether if its by buffing large blasters, or nerfing large railguns (while leaving large blaster DPS the same), large blasters need to have a niche as the close range AV option. Rattati stated that the large blasters are now supposed to only be a suppressor of infantry, but currently even after hotfix Alpha they still just slaughter infantry as if they are meant to be primarily slayers of infantry. Many people I talk to say its now much harder to strafe and avoid being hit by large blasters because the dispersion makes shots fly at their direction even when the driver did not have aim on them. My comments are based on Rattati's stated goals for large blasters, those goals are not met. On the subject on TTK, I would recommend looking at damage mods; perhaps lowering their efficacy and/or adding stacking penalties. As always with everything I post, I'm expecting you to try to get the last word in, I've said what I needed to say, so have fun.
Probably because I've had little/no sleep in days, but that part didn't appear in my view. That's a lot better. As for your comment about "blasters slaughtering infantry", no, they don't. you'd REALLY have to stand there like a idiot now.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11070
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Posted - 2014.06.10 09:51:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We propose the following: 1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers 2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers 3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS. Here are the numbers: Numbers I support these completely. A large railgun nerf would make large blasters preferable as the close range AV, while railguns would be the long range AV turret one.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2560
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Posted - 2014.06.10 10:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We propose the following: 1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers 2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers 3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS. Here are the numbers: Numbers
no return to the active reps? ughh. Otherwise nice.
^ My response like 2 hours ago.
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