We propose the following:

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers
2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers
3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.

Here are the numbers:

Numbers

We propose the following:

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers
2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers
3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.

Here are the numbers:

Numbers

That is not a productive statement, but it is awesome. +1

We propose the following:

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers
2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers
3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.

Here are the numbers:

Numbers

We propose the following:

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers
2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers
3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.

Here are the numbers:

Numbers

I don't really like most of what is suggested here. I'll go into more detail later this afternoon. Damage, ROF AND heat cost. Are you crazy?

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers

2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers

3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

hmmm with the proposed numbers I suspect drop ships to gain a large amount of survivability, and since most top class drop ship pilots are near indestructible already this should create a new fotm.

We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.

1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective
2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf
3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective
4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk
5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now

Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.

The floor is open.

We propose the following:

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers
2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers
3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.

Here are the numbers:

Numbers

It's all needed to bring them back to 1.6 levels. No railgun in 1.6 had everything like it does now. Railguns just can't have negligible heat costs, high RoF, AND high damage.

Railguns win at all ranges. There is really no rail weak spot when most railgun fitted tanks can just drive faster than the turret can turn. Overheating and reload are the only two currently and unlike missiles you're likely to destroy most targets before overheating or reloading and this is without damage mods. Where as most missiles turrets have to reload and improper management of blasters can lead to a tank surviving your onslaught.

It's all needed to bring them back to 1.6 levels. No railgun in 1.6 had everything like it does now. Railguns just can't have negligible heat costs, high RoF, AND high damage.

I don't really like most of what is suggested here. I'll go into more detail later this afternoon. Damage, ROF AND heat cost. Are you crazy?

also rails on armor tanks are 2 effective maby a bonus for using all caldary turrents on shield tanks, and all gallente turrents one armor tanks?

edit: woops, didnt mean to quote that

I was also wondering if we could see a buff to large missile turret elevation to combat ADSs more efficiently. I was thinking about something like a 70-80 degree max inclination of the turret, for it to better fulfill its AA/AT role.

In regards to Kagehoshi, personally I think the large blaster should have it's rate of fire, ammo and clip size toned down significantly (and it's damage increased to compensate) so that it is remains the most efficient turret to kill infantry with, but requires much greater aim and tracking then before.

Generally, I think turret types need to drastically lose their rate of fire (or in the missile's case, it's consistency) as they advance up through the sizes. Higher overall dps and efficiency versus armoured targets should at least warrant a decrease in volume of fire. Currently, all large turrets generally follow this rule, however the large blaster sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison to its smaller variant; they are in direct competition.

With that being said, I propose that the large blaster turret be redesigned as a fairly accurate (tone down the dispersion nerf), low RoF weapon (about 150 or so rpm and a damage buff to compensate for the dps loss) with it's current efficiency towards vehicles. The small blaster should have a massive advantage in accuracy (which it does), volume of fire (which it does) and therefore effective range (it definitely needs a large buff to it's effective range) as well as considerable damage (it has this now), to make it a much more effective anti infantry weapon.

Also, fix the hit detection on the small turrets and you'd see that this would all fall neatly into place.

Yes, thank you! No more 0 SP Sicas two-shotting me

And damage amps had no stacking penalties before, really? Well that was just dumb. No wonder those damned Gunnlogis could wipe out my extended hardened Gunnlogi shields in one shot, or insta kill my 4000 EHP Python.

nerf to damage mod = nerf to missiles, no more killing shield tanks...

Gallente made railguns................

no.

But caldari are long range snipers, duh.

1: this exists

2: rockets and torpedos exists.

Yea, I call bullshit.

We propose the following:

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers
2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers
3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.

Here are the numbers:

Numbers

We will be trying to make simple tweaks to make this game more fun and fair for everyone. Let me just kick of the discussion by paraphrasing a few common complaints.

1) Cheap glass cannons are too effective
2) Dmg modifiers need to be brought into the fold after hardener nerf
3) Madrugal triple reppers are too effective
4) Very high top speed allows many vehicles to blast into cover and rep to full health at very little risk
5) Shield tanking is less viable than armor right now

Let me also clarify, our stated design goals are for Large Blasters to be for a short range Anti-Vehicle role with Infantry suppression while Small Blasters are intended to be for an Anti-Infantry role.

The floor is open.

You missed my sarcasm, clearly. I'm aware of this, but consider also that caldari have crap missiles, so **** lore, lol.

Are you saying caldari get missiles and gallente get rails AND blasters. Not fair sir, not fair.

Not in order but my reply as a tank girl.

3, is not totally valid. While they might seem to be the most effective, personally, I find them to be less so. Of course, I don't want others to know this. Dust is filled with qq spewers and this is just the current favorite. The problem is we listen to qq but they don't relate their side of the story. Were they working alone? What weapon were they using? What about relative positions?

Many feel that any AV fit should kill any tank. Also my Maddy gets hit by flux grenades constantly. Wow. No doubt they come back and ***** here about my triple reps. Which I don't run, btw. I tried it a few times but a smart AV pair, not a full squad, can pop you quick. It just takes timing. Much like killing the ccp favorite the 900+ hp bunny hopping invisible scout.

The number of times I have sat still destroying whatever I targeted while getting hit by some totally ignorant red berry with a militia swarm launcher is beyond measure. I even get hate mail about it. But a militia AV care barely damage a properly fitted tank - by itself. Yet one scout with an RE can destroy the very same tank. Somebody is seriously wrong about this. And while I would prefer to say it is the RE scout it is actually the ignorant militia AV swarmer that never notices my shields have recovered by the time they reload. Fools.

1 and 2 in combination are the actual problem, but only to other tanks so why do non-tankers care?

If 1 is true then how can 5 be true as well? When running a shield tank you cannot stand toe to toe with an armored tank. You Will Die. Shield tanks have speed and maneuverability over armor tanks. Armor have higher damage resistance. Coming up behind or flanking an armor tank a shield tank can take them out. If the rail gun actually fires, if the rounds do damage or if the operator doesn't miss. Two of the three problems are the games fault, BTW.

High top speed is still consistent with tanks and the purported goal for the infamous vehicle rebalance of 1.7 if you don't recall I can clarify it for you. Waves of opportunity mean waiting for modules to recharge/cooldown/whatever while reloading ammor and waiting for shields and armor to regen. We are merely doing what ccp demanded we do to run tanks. Rush in guns blazing, use modules to enhance functions/defense, run like frightened rabbits when the modules die down or we have taken too many hits. Then rinse and repeat. Not that much different than many infantry roles.

Now, you are saying what exactly? That this is wrong as well?

Not mentioned is a guy running a Soma that can one shot any tank he comes across. Yep, two friends of mine went against him in a variety of tanks and he shot each of them once and killed them each and every time. How is that possible? I am actively searching for his name and numbers. Neither noted the damage inflicted which was unfortunate.

There is no log, nor statistics that let the players know who is killing who, what is being used to kill what and what is the most effective, common, lethal or cheapest solution. I only hope that CCP Rattiti has some information to base the upcoming changes on. Because the list as its stands is nearly laughable as it is fueled mostly by qq.

We propose the following:

1) Stacking penalties on Armor Repairers
2) Reduction and progression to Damage Amplifiers
3) Reduction of Large rail damage and ROF, increase of Heat Cost

We won't change shield modules for tanks this time around, but with these changes Shield tanked vehicles should be more viable and Armor tanked a little less, such as the Madrugar and ADS.

Here are the numbers: