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[Suggestion] Sidearm only Scouts?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Grimmiers 574	Posted - 2014.06.04 05:55:00 - [31] - Quote I made a post about how firing weapons would increase your profile based on what type of weapon it is. Scouts that want to keep a low profile while causing mayhem would want to use their sidearm over light weapons.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 861	Posted - 2014.06.04 07:08:00 - [32] - Quote Are totally forgetting about the Specialist line of weapons, with lower fitting costs but correspondingly worse performance in some aspects? Just change the code to 'scouts can use all sidearms and all weapons that have the 'Specialist' label' to allow them to broaden their choice without unnecessary nerfs. Dust/Eve transfers
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2232	Posted - 2014.06.04 08:02:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles What is exactly a support weapon? Is there a nanite injector gun in project? BTW, i don't think that decrease logi offensive power is a good choice, i would increase assault offensive power. Afterall that bonus on ROF was not that bad, probably a 2% per level would be good. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
Vitoka79 from SVK ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2014.06.04 08:16:00 - [34] - Quote Harpyja wrote: castba wrote: Tankers giving suggestions to balance infantry. This can only make the game better! I'm not just a tanker. Yes I'm only specialized into vehicles on this character, but I also have an alt specialized into Amarr assault, on which I've been spending the majority of my time as I cannot stand the vehicle imbalances anymore. My opinion on infantry balance is valid. Your opinion is crap.You ever sove that picture where the Gal scout is holding the sniper rifle?Sidearm my ass. I don't need a pilot suit.I made my own without skill bonuses :( Crashing dropships since september 2012...
voidfaction Void of Faction 253	Posted - 2014.06.04 08:48:00 - [35] - Quote Harpyja wrote: If Scouts are outperforming other suits, how about limiting them to sidearms only (and making the shotgun a sidearm)? It'd make sense: Heavies - heavy weapons Mediums - light weapons Lights (or just Scouts) - sidearms I have not found a FPS yet that does not have a sniper rifle for a scout or some type of scoped precision rifle. Take away my full auto rifle fine. Not my sniper rifle or tac-ar.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 966	Posted - 2014.06.04 10:04:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think the inherent strength of DUST 514 is the fitting freedom and I don't like hardcoding these choices. However, because it is hard to create weapons for classes like the Assault, without making them equally good for Scouts or Commandos. In fact, I have been advocating that we allow almost all choices across weapons and roles, but with limitations and penalties. Maybe not the extremes of HMG wielding Scouts, but a 25% fitting penalty across roles, or something like that. Sure, the sentinel can use the CR but it's made for smaller frames and it's not optimized for the bulky heavy. Same could go for a lot of things, for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles and then incur a penalty. You can fit them, but your choice will be at the expense of your Logi efficiency and that may cause you to think it over, and just use the Assault for assaulting. These are still just my thoughts on the topic, and we are not doing any of this imminently. This is indeed a direction I really like +1
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 238	Posted - 2014.06.04 15:08:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think the inherent strength of DUST 514 is the fitting freedom and I don't like hardcoding these choices. However, because it is hard to create weapons for classes like the Assault, without making them equally good for Scouts or Commandos. In fact, I have been advocating that we allow almost all choices across weapons and roles, but with limitations and penalties. Maybe not the extremes of HMG wielding Scouts, but a 25% fitting penalty across roles, or something like that. Sure, the sentinel can use the CR but it's made for smaller frames and it's not optimized for the bulky heavy. Same could go for a lot of things, for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles and then incur a penalty. You can fit them, but your choice will be at the expense of your Logi efficiency and that may cause you to think it over, and just use the Assault for assaulting. These are still just my thoughts on the topic, and we are not doing any of this imminently. ummmm....be careful about what you do with logis it is very easy to turn them into the best class in the game where no other class stands a chance at all against them. We even had that happening for a while during the age of the Slayer Logi. Logis have lots of spare CPU/PG to be able to spend as they see fit, such as how they have started using the cloaks as well even with the huge cost on the cloak.
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 330	Posted - 2014.06.04 16:26:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think the inherent strength of DUST 514 is the fitting freedom and I don't like hardcoding these choices. However, because it is hard to create weapons for classes like the Assault, without making them equally good for Scouts or Commandos. In fact, I have been advocating that we allow almost all choices across weapons and roles, but with limitations and penalties. Maybe not the extremes of HMG wielding Scouts, but a 25% fitting penalty across roles, or something like that. Sure, the sentinel can use the CR but it's made for smaller frames and it's not optimized for the bulky heavy. Same could go for a lot of things, for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles and then incur a penalty. You can fit them, but your choice will be at the expense of your Logi efficiency and that may cause you to think it over, and just use the Assault for assaulting. These are still just my thoughts on the topic, and we are not doing any of this imminently. What if you just gave a speed penalty for heavy weapons, then gave heavy suits a role bonus that negated it. Or you could have a higher fitting cost for heavy weapons and give heavy suits a role bonus to reduce it. Result: Sure you can have a scout with a HMG, however it's all gank with no tank and is slower than a scout using a smaller weapon.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 9118	Posted - 2014.06.04 17:00:00 - [39] - Quote Harpyja wrote: If Scouts are outperforming other suits, how about limiting them to sidearms only (and making the shotgun a sidearm)? It'd make sense: Heavies - heavy weapons Mediums - light weapons Lights (or just Scouts) - sidearms Or, you could address the problems causing the Scouts to outperform other suits as opposed to making a change that is not only unnecessary, but an awful idea for reasons stated in the last time a "sidearm only" nerf was suggested. Lets look at all of the problems that would be addressed: Scouts w/Combat Rifles Now lets look at all the unnecessary playstyles that would be removed here: Scout w/Plasma Cannon Scout w/Mass Driver Scout w/Sniper Rifle Scout w/Plasma Rifle Scout w/Laser Rifle Scout w/[Insert anything other than Combat Rifle here] Moving the shotgun would pretty much equate to every Medium Frame and their mothers, brothers, grandmothers, and next door neighbors carrying Shotguns in their Sidearm slot. This is bad because it would give suits capable of moving over 7m/s incredible ganking power with no actual sacrifice. (Just picture a Six Kin ACR with a CreoDron SG at 7.5m/s and 500HP of shields). The real problems with Light/Scout Frames: Possible eHP ceiling is too high No firing delay on clacks Lack of incentive to use Assault Frames Now tell me, which problem(s) would be addressed by revoking their Light Weapon Slot? HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Need HeLP in PC? Contact Me In-Game :D -HAND
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1991	Posted - 2014.06.04 19:01:00 - [40] - Quote Atiim wrote: The real problems with Light/Scout Frames: Possible eHP ceiling is too high No firing delay on clacks Lack of incentive to use Assault Frames Now tell me, which problem(s) would be addressed by revoking their Light Weapon Slot? Here we go. ^ Solid. As a sidearm scout the change doesn't really effect me but sidearm only scout has always been a hideous idea. It takes so many scout play styles off the table and doesn't address any of the core issues. It would definitely limit the number of scouts on the field, and take many scouts out of the game most likely... (and moving the Shotty to a sidearm is also a dumb idea, for the many reasons mentioned above). Nothing should really even be discussed or considered until a few weeks after alpha. looks away from OP "NEXT!" Double posting like a Kaiser.

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1459	Posted - 2014.06.04 20:03:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think the inherent strength of DUST 514 is the fitting freedom and I don't like hardcoding these choices. However, because it is hard to create weapons for classes like the Assault, without making them equally good for Scouts or Commandos. In fact, I have been advocating that we allow almost all choices across weapons and roles, but with limitations and penalties. Maybe not the extremes of HMG wielding Scouts, but a 25% fitting penalty across roles, or something like that. Sure, the sentinel can use the CR but it's made for smaller frames and it's not optimized for the bulky heavy. Same could go for a lot of things, for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles and then incur a penalty. You can fit them, but your choice will be at the expense of your Logi efficiency and that may cause you to think it over, and just use the Assault for assaulting. These are still just my thoughts on the topic, and we are not doing any of this imminently. This would have a pretty negative impact on the Amarr logi. Currently it in the only logi really geared for attacking as it has a side arm slot. Would it get a smaller penalty to using rifles than the other logis. 10% perhaps? Fun > Realism
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1822	Posted - 2014.06.04 22:56:00 - [42] - Quote Atiim wrote: Harpyja wrote: If Scouts are outperforming other suits, how about limiting them to sidearms only (and making the shotgun a sidearm)? It'd make sense: Heavies - heavy weapons Mediums - light weapons Lights (or just Scouts) - sidearms Or, you could address the problems causing the Scouts to outperform other suits as opposed to making a change that is not only unnecessary, but an awful idea for reasons stated in the last time a "sidearm only" nerf was suggested. Lets look at all of the problems that would be addressed: Scouts w/Combat Rifles Now lets look at all the unnecessary playstyles that would be removed here: Scout w/Plasma Cannon Scout w/Mass Driver Scout w/Sniper Rifle Scout w/Plasma Rifle Scout w/Laser Rifle Scout w/[Insert anything other than Combat Rifle here] Moving the shotgun would pretty much equate to every Medium Frame and their mothers, brothers, grandmothers, and next door neighbors carrying Shotguns in their Sidearm slot. This is bad because it would give suits capable of moving over 7m/s incredible ganking power with no actual sacrifice. (Just picture a Six Kin ACR with a CreoDron SG at 7.5m/s and 500HP of shields). The real problems with Light/Scout Frames: Possible eHP ceiling is too high No firing delay on clacks Lack of incentive to use Assault Frames Now tell me, which problem(s) would be addressed by revoking their Light Weapon Slot? Everything you said is true. When I first made the thread my only thought was "Scouts with combat rifles." So... yeah, I had close to no thought of anything else when I made the OP "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3197	Posted - 2014.06.04 23:23:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think the inherent strength of DUST 514 is the fitting freedom and I don't like hardcoding these choices. However, because it is hard to create weapons for classes like the Assault, without making them equally good for Scouts or Commandos. In fact, I have been advocating that we allow almost all choices across weapons and roles, but with limitations and penalties. Maybe not the extremes of HMG wielding Scouts, but a 25% fitting penalty across roles, or something like that. Sure, the sentinel can use the CR but it's made for smaller frames and it's not optimized for the bulky heavy. Same could go for a lot of things, for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles and then incur a penalty. You can fit them, but your choice will be at the expense of your Logi efficiency and that may cause you to think it over, and just use the Assault for assaulting. These are still just my thoughts on the topic, and we are not doing any of this imminently. If thats the case i want to be aible to wield a forgegun on my scout suit. I would even do that with a 30% fitting penalty.
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 730	Posted - 2014.06.05 00:19:00 - [44] - Quote Atiim wrote: ... The real problems with Light/Scout Frames: Possible eHP ceiling is too high No firing delay on clacks Lack of incentive to use Assault Frames ... Have you or anyone else looked at this solution? MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. Scanned scouts aren't dead scouts, they're +600HP scouts.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3011	Posted - 2014.06.05 00:25:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think the inherent strength of DUST 514 is the fitting freedom and I don't like hardcoding these choices. However, because it is hard to create weapons for classes like the Assault, without making them equally good for Scouts or Commandos. In fact, I have been advocating that we allow almost all choices across weapons and roles, but with limitations and penalties. Maybe not the extremes of HMG wielding Scouts, but a 25% fitting penalty across roles, or something like that. Sure, the sentinel can use the CR but it's made for smaller frames and it's not optimized for the bulky heavy. Same could go for a lot of things, for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles and then incur a penalty. You can fit them, but your choice will be at the expense of your Logi efficiency and that may cause you to think it over, and just use the Assault for assaulting. These are still just my thoughts on the topic, and we are not doing any of this imminently. Lead with a carrot and not a stick. Global penalties are a bad thing because it means you have to code and verify the penalty works for every dropsuit and weapon combo. Suit specific bonuses are a good thing, it works only on the suits you intend it to. If you really want to do this, you need to do like you did with equipment and nerf the base stats while providing bonuses to the suits you wish to pair these with.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 9124	Posted - 2014.06.05 00:53:00 - [46] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Have you or anyone else looked at this solution? After reading this over, it seems like a very promising solution. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Need HeLP in PC? Contact Me In-Game :D -HAND
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 732	Posted - 2014.06.05 00:58:00 - [47] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles What is exactly a support weapon? Is there a nanite injector gun in project? BTW, i don't think that decrease logi offensive power is a good choice, i would increase assault offensive power. Afterall that bonus on ROF was not that bad, probably a 2% per level would be good. A RoF bonus would only help out the AR, and the RR, and the assault SCR. It wouldn't do anything for the regular SCR and it would hurt the assault CR. A better bonus would be Aero Yassavi & KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Assault bonus: 2% increase in all light/sidearm weapon damage per level. Amarr: 5% reduction of heat buildup on laser weaponry per level (functionally equivalent to magazine increase) Minmatar: 5% increase magazine size of projectile weaponry per level. Gallente: 5% increase in hybrid-blaster weaponry magazine size per level. Caldari: 5% increase in hybrid-rail weaponry magazine size per level. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. Scanned scouts aren't dead scouts, they're +600HP scouts.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 9125	Posted - 2014.06.05 01:29:00 - [48] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Everything you said is true. When I first made the thread my only thought was "Scouts with combat rifles." So... yeah, I had close to no thought of anything else when I made the OP Don't put yourself down. As you of all people know, I've been guilty of similar things in the past. But at least you recognize that there is a problem, and at least attempted to form a solution to it. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Need HeLP in PC? Contact Me In-Game :D -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 9125	Posted - 2014.06.05 01:36:00 - [49] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: A better bonus would be Aero Yassavi & KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Assault bonus: 2% increase in all light/sidearm weapon damage per level. Amarr: 5% reduction of heat buildup on laser weaponry per level (functionally equivalent to magazine increase) Minmatar: 5% increase magazine size of projectile weaponry per level. Gallente: 5% increase in hybrid-blaster weaponry magazine size per level. Caldari: 5% increase in hybrid-rail weaponry magazine size per level. This wouldn't be a better bonus, as the Commandos already have the same damage bonus (albiet 3%). HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Need HeLP in PC? Contact Me In-Game :D -HAND
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2014.06.05 02:44:00 - [50] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles What is exactly a support weapon? Is there a nanite injector gun in project? BTW, i don't think that decrease logi offensive power is a good choice, i would increase assault offensive power. Afterall that bonus on ROF was not that bad, probably a 2% per level would be good. The nanohive canon? The rep tool rifle? Seriously, buffing Assaults' offensively capabilities is a much better idea than nerfing Logis' defensively capabilities. We deserve the right to protect ourselves. I've tried real hard to use advanced and proto SMGs but I'm getting really tied of getting cut down from TWICE my range by Rail Rifles, etc. My Logi-Bro outfit is too expensive for that crap. Duct tape 2.0 - Have WD-40; will travel.

bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2014.06.05 02:49:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think the inherent strength of DUST 514 is the fitting freedom and I don't like hardcoding these choices. However, because it is hard to create weapons for classes like the Assault, without making them equally good for Scouts or Commandos. In fact, I have been advocating that we allow almost all choices across weapons and roles, but with limitations and penalties. Maybe not the extremes of HMG wielding Scouts, but a 25% fitting penalty across roles, or something like that. Sure, the sentinel can use the CR but it's made for smaller frames and it's not optimized for the bulky heavy. Same could go for a lot of things, for example Rifles in the hands of Logis, they should excel at support weapons but maybe not rifles and then incur a penalty. You can fit them, but your choice will be at the expense of your Logi efficiency and that may cause you to think it over, and just use the Assault for assaulting. These are still just my thoughts on the topic, and we are not doing any of this imminently. I really like the idea of weapon/role/race optimal fits, but please be careful regarding nerfing Logi's ability for self defense. Most of us only have one weapon slot to begin with... And our suits are expensive. Duct tape 2.0 - Have WD-40; will travel.
Random1628 Random Gunz 0	Posted - 2014.06.05 04:39:00 - [52] - Quote Why not create a medium weapon slot that the medium, assault, and logistic frames can have while the scouts keep their light weapon slot. The medium weapons would at least consist of the four assault rifles, that should at least fix the scout abilities to out perform the assaults offensive capabilities.
voidfaction Void of Faction 265	Posted - 2014.06.05 05:52:00 - [53] - Quote Random1628 wrote: Why not create a medium weapon slot that the medium, assault, and logistic frames can have while the scouts keep their light weapon slot. The medium weapons would at least consist of the four assault rifles, that should at least fix the scout abilities to out perform the assaults offensive capabilities. Why not create a big hole and drop you in it if you want to take away my tac-ar with my scout. You play a eWAR scout with the tac-ar and tell me it is over powered or does not just feel right as a scout. only thing it needs is a better head shot bonus or gal scout bonus to kick when aiming down sites. Give my Caldari scout a head shot bonus for sniper rifles and I would have no need for one of the 4 rifles. Give the Minmatar scout more dampening so they can use there NK's The Amarr scout don't need a weapon they only need to kneel and pray as they get executed thinking there god will save them.


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