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Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
10
   |
Posted - 2014.05.24 04:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
A way to make "That guy with the needle" someone we're glad to have, and make FW torture less excruciating.
I would like to start by saying that this post is built on ideas inspired by posts that other people have done. Fox Gaden is the only one that I can think of right now so if you see something you already posted feel free to swoop in and take credit. 
Now I know, that a lot of people are going to say "You're immortal. Who cares how many times you die?" I do, for one, and so do a lot of the top Corps. It's partly a point of personal pride, partly a statement of how good you are.
Ok, now that that's out of the way, lets get to it.
1. kills should be gained same as now. You put him down, you get a kill. You get 25 war points right away, if/when he bleeds out (or you shoot until he is beyond repair), you get your other 25 war points. A head shot kill would continue to give 60 War points.
2. Deaths should only be added when your clone is terminated. If "That guy with the needle" comes and sticks you right in front of the meta 10 HMG (not proto anymore) that just killed you, you don't stand to loose anything from his poor decision making skills. And about him,
3. "That guy with the needle" SHOULD NOT be rewarded for running out and sticking a guy only to have him get put back down a nano second later. Give him 10 war points for putting him on his feet and give him the other 50 IF The guy stays alive for 10 seconds (could be longer or shorter).
4. Each clone should only be able to be picked up with a nano injector once or twice.
5. You should have a toggle in the options menu to choose whether any person on your team can stick you (without you requesting help first) or just squadmates, or if you don't want anyone to be able to pick you up without permission.
Extra information/ideas.
To help identify if a clone is dead, when someone is incapacitated, but their clone has not been terminated, they would have an 'X' over him, blue for a friend, red for a foe. The 'X' could switch to the current injector icon when he calls for help.
In the battle review panel, getting incapacitated without dying could be represented by a purple dot on the graph. It would not reduce your K/D, that would only happen when you bleed out.
Some PROs,
1. It would encourage people to be more helpful with their needle.
2. Make it so that FW torturers (or their inevitable equivalent in Legion) can't do as much damage.
3. Corps could train new members without leaving an almost incurable stain on their record.
4. Reward players for having good shooting.
5. It would be easier to maintain a positive kill to death ratio.
Some CONs,
1. Could be abused if not implemented well.
2. Would create an imbalance in the global PvP K/D (not really a con though in my opinion...)
3. Warbarge Strike commendations might take a bit longer to get, in ambush for example.
4. Might be harder to implement multiple stage war point acquisition (I'm not a coder or programmer so I don't know if what I am suggesting is even possible).
5. See #5 in PROs above... 
Suggestions, criticisms, and modifications are welcome. A Blue Flag would be fantastic. |
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2408
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 05:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
I said it a thousand times already, and I'll say it again; let's go away from the stupid gamemodes already.........
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
213
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
As 'a guy with a needle', I approve of this post.
Duct tape 2.0 - Have WD-40; will travel.
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Leeroy Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
270
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:I said it a thousand times already, and I'll say it again; let's go away from the stupid gamemodes already.........
What does this have to do with game modes, exactly?
MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK
It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
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Doctor Day
Glitched Connection
266
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 16:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
You mean that guy the revives you infrot of 10 scouts??
that gets you killled by a shotgun? |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3479
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 21:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am not sure if this was the post that you saw, but it is one of the posts where I explain how I think kills/deaths should be handled.
Fox Gaden wrote:Kills/Deaths:
Dropping an enemy should count as an Incapacitation (+25 WP). If that clone bleeds out, or someone shoots the unconscious body so that the clone is lost, then it should count as a death and the person who Incapacitated the clone should get another (+25 WP) for the kill and have the kill added to their stats. (Not the guy that shot the unconscious body.) Similarly, the incapacitated player should only have a death added to their stats if the clone is lost. (This would greatly alter the way we look at Nanite Injectors.)
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 23:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:I am not sure if this was the post that you saw, but it is one of the posts where I explain how I think kills/deaths should be handled. Fox Gaden wrote:Kills/Deaths:
Dropping an enemy should count as an Incapacitation (+25 WP). If that clone bleeds out, or someone shoots the unconscious body so that the clone is lost, then it should count as a death and the person who Incapacitated the clone should get another (+25 WP) for the kill and have the kill added to their stats. (Not the guy that shot the unconscious body.) Similarly, the incapacitated player should only have a death added to their stats if the clone is lost. (This would greatly alter the way we look at Nanite Injectors.)
I think a GÇ£KillGÇ¥ should only count if the clone is terminated as well, so no imbalance in the global K/D. This is why I have introduced the term GÇ£IncapacitateGÇ¥ in my suggestion. If you want to make sure you get the GÇ£KillGÇ¥ you can shoot the incapacitated clone to finish it off. (Clones have health just like Shields and Armor, there just isnGÇÖt a bar for it.) I donGÇÖt think there is any need to limit the number of times you can be revived, as long as only Clone loss results in a kill. If the clone is revivable it will be laying there. If it is not revivable it will be burning up. At least if that is how it works now.
Good point, but if done that way, I think that you should have incapacitations/ number of people you have incapacitated added to your K/D. It would be helpful to know how many kills you missed, as well as how many you got.
P.S. what thread is that quote from? |
Shadowswipe
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
252
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 02:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price.
If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would higher the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion.
As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3482
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 12:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:I am not sure if this was the post that you saw, but it is one of the posts where I explain how I think kills/deaths should be handled. Fox Gaden wrote:Kills/Deaths:
Dropping an enemy should count as an Incapacitation (+25 WP). If that clone bleeds out, or someone shoots the unconscious body so that the clone is lost, then it should count as a death and the person who Incapacitated the clone should get another (+25 WP) for the kill and have the kill added to their stats. (Not the guy that shot the unconscious body.) Similarly, the incapacitated player should only have a death added to their stats if the clone is lost. (This would greatly alter the way we look at Nanite Injectors.)
I think a GÇ£KillGÇ¥ should only count if the clone is terminated as well, so no imbalance in the global K/D. This is why I have introduced the term GÇ£IncapacitateGÇ¥ in my suggestion. If you want to make sure you get the GÇ£KillGÇ¥ you can shoot the incapacitated clone to finish it off. (Clones have health just like Shields and Armor, there just isnGÇÖt a bar for it.) I donGÇÖt think there is any need to limit the number of times you can be revived, as long as only Clone loss results in a kill. If the clone is revivable it will be laying there. If it is not revivable it will be burning up. At least if that is how it works now. Good point, but if done that way, I think that you should have incapacitations/ number of people you have incapacitated added to your K/D. It would be helpful to know how many kills you missed, as well as how many you got. P.S. I think that was the thread.
Incapacitations: Given/Received as a separate stat from K/D.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3482
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 12:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price.
If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would hire the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion.
As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive.
I am strongly against the removal of data! We need more stats, not less!
And yes, ISK gained, ISK lost, and ISK value destroyed, are definitely some of the most important states we need to have added.
Edit: Under your system AV Infantry would come off looking REALY good, while HMG Heavies would look like they sucked in comparison. Also, a bad Redline Snipers would look good because they donGÇÖt lose much ISK, even if they only get 2 or 3 kills per game.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2415
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 12:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Leeroy Gannarsein wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:I said it a thousand times already, and I'll say it again; let's go away from the stupid gamemodes already......... What does this have to do with game modes, exactly?
..............
War points maybe?
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
216
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 13:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price.
If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would hire the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion.
As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive. I am strongly against the removal of data! We need more stats, not less! And yes, ISK gained, ISK lost, and ISK value destroyed, are definitely some of the most important states we need to have added. Edit: Under your system AV Infantry would come off looking REALY good, while HMG Heavies would look like they sucked in comparison. Also, a bad Redline Snipers would look good because they donGÇÖt lose much ISK, even if they only get 2 or 3 kills per game.
Although AV could use help looking good on a stat sheet, I don't know what ISK won/lost would actually look like for them. I mean, some proto logi suits are pretty expensive and some HAVs are pretty cheap... In any case, I think it would be pretty easy to implement a modifier for vehicle related ISK to balance against infantry.
Duct tape 2.0 - Have WD-40; will travel.
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
227
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 02:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price.
If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would hire the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion.
As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive. I am strongly against the removal of data! We need more stats, not less! And yes, ISK gained, ISK lost, and ISK value destroyed, are definitely some of the most important states we need to have added. Edit: Under your system AV Infantry would come off looking REALY good, while HMG Heavies would look like they sucked in comparison. Also, a bad Redline Snipers would look good because they donGÇÖt lose much ISK, even if they only get 2 or 3 kills per game. Although AV could use help looking good on a stat sheet, I don't know what ISK won/lost would actually look like for them. I mean, some proto logi suits are pretty expensive and some HAVs are pretty cheap... In any case, I think it would be pretty easy to implement a modifier for vehicle related ISK to balance against infantry.
Have it be that if a tank kills a suit, it gets a quarter of what the suit costs to its Isk equivalent. That way a militia tank cannot be considered as Isk efficient, since killing a Proto suit would only award a max of around 60k Isk. However, it would be cool if a vehicles destroyed was added as a stat... I'll make a seperate post
From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
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Shadowswipe
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
254
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 02:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price.
If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would hire the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion.
As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive. I am strongly against the removal of data! We need more stats, not less! And yes, ISK gained, ISK lost, and ISK value destroyed, are definitely some of the most important states we need to have added. Edit: Under your system AV Infantry would come off looking REALY good, while HMG Heavies would look like they sucked in comparison. Also, a bad Redline Snipers would look good because they donGÇÖt lose much ISK, even if they only get 2 or 3 kills per game. Although AV could use help looking good on a stat sheet, I don't know what ISK won/lost would actually look like for them. I mean, some proto logi suits are pretty expensive and some HAVs are pretty cheap... In any case, I think it would be pretty easy to implement a modifier for vehicle related ISK to balance against infantry.
Just add a per game modifier tracking the gains and losses. I'm all for more data. Just ask for more data over microing the ones we already have. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
10293
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 02:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:I said it a thousand times already, and I'll say it again; let's go away from the stupid gamemodes already.........
Lets not because logically short isolated battles are what mercenaries would most likely be a part of.
However understandably Campaigning should be a viable and fleshed out means of gameplay.
Markdown:
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Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
141
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 03:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like this idea, and agree with all but the first point.
As someone who can averages 20 kills per match, what is to stop someone from terminating the clones I can't terminate due to a long engagement and stealing those 25/WP. I really only get a good WP gain from my kills. Unless of course you are meaning I still get a kill if someone else terminates, then that would be okay.
I think another good fix would be that IF the guy gets down and picked up by a dildo of life (thats what I like to call them) I think there should be a 5 second no WP gain/no kill count gain. This will make it so that people who K/D boost using the method of having a mate on the other side to revive your kill, will be left high and dry.
Come Join the War
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3486
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 12:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:
Although AV could use help looking good on a stat sheet, I don't know what ISK won/lost would actually look like for them. I mean, some proto logi suits are pretty expensive and some HAVs are pretty cheap... In any case, I think it would be pretty easy to implement a modifier for vehicle related ISK to balance against infantry.
Sorry, I thought you meant the ISK value of the items you destroyed, vs the value of items you lost.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3486
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 12:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jonny D Buelle wrote:I like this idea, and agree with all but the first point.
As someone who can averages 20 kills per match, what is to stop someone from terminating the clones I can't terminate due to a long engagement and stealing those 25/WP. I really only get a good WP gain from my kills. Unless of course you are meaning I still get a kill if someone else terminates, then that would be okay.
I think another good fix would be that IF the guy gets down and picked up by a dildo of life (thats what I like to call them) I think there should be a 5 second no WP gain/no kill count gain. This will make it so that people who K/D boost using the method of having a mate on the other side to revive your kill, will be left high and dry.
When I proposed it I suggested that the person who Incapacitates the clone should get the extra 25 WP and the Kill on their stats when the clone is lost, even if the clone was lost due to someone else shooting the incapacitated body.
I agree with your second point as well.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 13:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes, what Fox said. If you Incapacitate someone you get all 50 war points (if they are not picked up). |
Forlorn Destrier
2506
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 20:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price.
If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would hire the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion.
As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive.
Random idea caused by your post: what if the ISK you earned was based on the difference between what you killed directly and what you lost, with a mimimum pay out for all players of say 100k ISK? I kind of like this idea... |
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
1919
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 23:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:
1. kills should be gained same as now. You put him down, you get a kill. You get 25 war points right away, if/when he bleeds out (or you shoot until he is beyond repair), you get your other 25 war points. A head shot kill would continue to give 60 War points.
I highly disagree with this. Allow me to put a different spin on this: "because those guys are working together, I get less WP which means less SP." Working together should give a bonus to your efforts rather than act as a detriment to the enemies. Only getting 25 WP because I dropped someone but they got a needle is lame. A needle is already a huge advantage (saves a clone, saves isk, gets someone back into the fight immediately) without it needing the advantage that it can troll the enemies.
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:
2. Deaths should only be added when your clone is terminated. If "That guy with the needle" comes and sticks you right in front of the meta 10 HMG (not proto anymore) that just killed you, you don't stand to loose anything from his poor decision making skills. And about him,
I can agree on this I guess. It only counts as a death if you bleed out. This means that the person that 'died' 3 times but only bleed out once would only gain one death on their statistics. Seems fine enough.
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:
3. "That guy with the needle" SHOULD NOT be rewarded for running out and sticking a guy only to have him get put back down a nano second later. Give him 10 war points for putting him on his feet and give him the other 50 IF The guy stays alive for 10 seconds (could be longer or shorter).
Dunno about this one. Allow me to put a different spin on it: "Ugh! I killed the two guys that killed this stupid blueberry and raised him. The idiot sat there for two seconds and than ran out into enemy fire so I only got 10 WP!"
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:
4. Each clone should only be able to be picked up with a nano injector once or twice.
Absolutely. Maybe like a once every thirty second thing, three times maximum per clone. This stops the Zombie Charge.
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:
5. You should have a toggle in the options menu to choose whether any person on your team can stick you (without you requesting help first) or just squadmates, or if you don't want anyone to be able to pick you up without permission.
Agreed. Just a few options. "Open needle: anyone can raise you", "Squad needle: only squad members can raise you; can request for help", "Request needle: can only be needled if you call for help." It is a little 'videogamey' but it is obnoxious trying to change a suit while dead only to have some jackass raise you when you were using the opportunity to come in as a different suit. Or the friendly shotgun + needle thing.
So I disagree heavily on 1, am leaning against 3, am leaning towards 2, and agree with 4 and 5.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2014.05.27 04:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:
3. "That guy with the needle" SHOULD NOT be rewarded for running out and sticking a guy only to have him get put back down a nano second later. Give him 10 war points for putting him on his feet and give him the other 50 IF The guy stays alive for 10 seconds (could be longer or shorter).
Dunno about this one. Allow me to put a different spin on it: "Ugh! I killed the two guys that killed this stupid blueberry and raised him. The idiot sat there for two seconds and than ran out into enemy fire so I only got 10 WP!"
There is something in that. But I think that it makes the risk/reward more dynamic for people who use nano injectors. Perhaps it could be so that if they reach full armor, so that, but I would not be in favor of that because I could easily see people who wouldn't bother rezzing Gal Sentinels, for the reason of not getting their war points.
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:
...So I disagree heavily on 1, am leaning against 3, am leaning towards 2, and agree with 4 and 5.
I can see how #1 is not so good. I'm glad that you like some of my other ideas though. Thanks for the feedback guys.
P.S. Does anyone know how to get a Dev to reply to a thread? |
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 04:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Shadowswipe wrote:KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price.
If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would hire the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion.
As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive. Random idea caused by your post: what if the ISK you earned was based on the difference between what you killed directly and what you lost, with a mimimum pay out for all players of say 100k ISK? I kind of like this idea...
Interesting idea, do you have an example so I can see how it would work? |
Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2155
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 17:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
One of the best things Legion could do to improve the NPE over Dust 514 is completely remove (at least from all leaderboards/post match screens) the misleading current KDR stat.
KDR as it currently functions in D514 is deceptive, non-functional and teaches players new to the game bad habits (or reinforces bad habits from other games) which will not server them, their squad or their team within the context of Dust-Legion.
I will happily go into threadnough length detail if needed/upon request, but for purposes of this post I shall strive to be brief.
Legion should include no tracking of current KDR instead Legion should replace the current ill defined catch all with a series of more specific and useful metrics, examples include.
- WP per death - Most useful general metric
- Clone Kills per Clone Death - more specific
- ISK value destroyed per Death - Because even the above stat doesn't properly reflect AV work
- ISK lost per ISK destroyed - Not all fittings are created equal
- Revives per death
- Armor (and shields if we get a transporter) repped per death - 4 & 5 because support roles matter as much as kills
- Assists per death - This could include all types of assists, or be broken down into sub-categories.
- Deaths per weapon type - More valuable than "how many times did I die" is "what kills me most often".
- Match Nemesis - Player that did the most damage to you/killed you most often within the match (promotes competition and is useful for tracking outlier situations like being hunted by a specific player).
- W/L ratio - With stronger matchmaking this will become much more relevant
- Matches complete vs matches dropped - Very useful for a recruiter
- Depending on stat tracking - Many other options depending on how deep the stat tracking goes; 'WP earned from squad commission', 'WP earned via squad orders', 'WP, kills, et al from OBs', etc.
Obviously not all of this would go on the post match leaderboard, but including it in the character profile with filters for weekly, monthly and lifetime would be highly useful. As to the post match board itself, if we're seeing the same format as we do now I'd advocate replacing the current KDR stat with an ISK efficiency stat. Yes matchmaking is supposed to address the problem of proto stomping, but there's no reason we shouldn't be giving credit to the folks who have enough skill to take out proto fits in starter gear (or whatever the max disparity allowed by the matchmaking system turns out to be).
0.02 ISK
Cross
Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
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Cyrus Militani
Leon Conglomerate
94
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 18:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
A logi should continue to get full immediate credit for a revival. I have revived people in the past only for them to stand there and get shot simply because they were not paying attention to the fact that they were revived. I still put my neck out there to revive them, risking my own death. And I'm careful and run with proto nanite injectors, so the person being revived has no excuse to stand there and not run for cover.
I do, however, want to discourage "injector farming" where a corp will be on both sides and kill and revive a stray clone over and over again. A simple solution for that is don't award WP (to logi or killer) or count a kill/death for a clone that was incapacitated and revived within 2-3 seconds after the first time. |
Bragoltur Valaruina
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 05:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cyrus Militani wrote:A logi should continue to get full immediate credit for a revival. I have revived people in the past only for them to stand there and get shot simply because they were not paying attention to the fact that they were revived. I still put my neck out there to revive them, risking my own death. And I'm careful and run with proto nanite injectors, so the person being revived has no excuse to stand there and not run for cover.
I do, however, want to discourage "injector farming" where a corp will be on both sides and kill and revive a stray clone over and over again. A simple solution for that is don't award WP (to logi or killer) or count a kill/death for a clone that was incapacitated and revived within 2-3 seconds after the first time.
I don't think I have been rezzed by a proto needle more than once in every twenty times someone has picked me up. Usually it's wacko medic starter fits going for cheep war points. You're probably thinking, "That guy must never squad." And that's the truth, I wish I could squad more when I play, but I can't seem to find a group that is competitive to be fun but casual enough to be fine with my standard/advanced fits. So yeah, I am frustrated with blueberries who are willing to run out and get me an extra death, just so they can get 60 (free, because starter fits cost nothing,) war points.
OK, new thought.
Make the meta level of the needle and the fit you picked up be war point modifiers.
Meta 1-2 give 5 war points, meta 3-4 give 10 war points, meta 5-6 give 15 war points, meta 7-8 give 20 war points, and meta 9-10 give 30 war points.
So for example
meta level of your needle = 1
+ meta level of the fit you picked up =3
= war points awarded. = 15
meta level of your needle = 7
+ meta level of the fit you picked up =10
= war points awarded. = 50
^right off the top of my head...
It would reward carrying a better nano injector, and sticking your neck out for your proto buddy gives you full rewards even if he can't get away.
Downside is, it could deter new players from going into that branch of logistics, because it would maybe feel like more trouble than it's worth. |
Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2159
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 08:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bragoltur Valaruina wrote:OK, new thought.
Make the meta level of the needle and the fit you picked up be war point modifiers.
Welcome to my world -
Cross Atu wrote:Problem: Use of higher meta Injectors reduces WP earnings potential. (From a feedback thread I started during closed beta). More details.
In short one of the key ways to improve injector use is to properly iterate the risk vs reward dynamic in game.
Currently the lowest meta needle grands the highest potential rewards.
This not only provides pressure to use weaker revives over stronger ones, but also encourages risky play due to the lower buy in cost of these 'best reward' needles.
If on the other hand the highest earnings were scaled with the highest tactical effect and highest buy in/risk then those running the needles will be a bit more selective, also those being revived will come back with a greater chance at survival.
It's also worth noting that there is in fact a point where WP stop being awarded for reviving the same merc, anecdotally it seems to be a short cooldown on earnings.
Upshot - Many of these multi-revives aren't actually earning anything. If needed this cooldown could be expanded, it could also, in theory be tied to the meta of the needle used thus giving even more reason to run the best gear.
Cheers,
Cross
Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
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